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lugoman
10-22-2009, 09:51 PM
Doesnt seem to be many public raids happening on Cannith. The only one I see when I am online is Tempest Spine. I havent had any problems getting flagged for Demon Queen or Reaver's Fate, but havent been able to actually do either raids.

I understand people who have done them 50 times not wanting to walk noobs through, but not being able to do the raids will stop me from getting more adventure packs. Why buy an ap if you will rarely run the raid? Easy solution is for Turbine to run some public raids and make them very noob friendly. Get some interns and strap them to a chair and make them lead raids!

Uska
10-22-2009, 10:29 PM
Not a good idea, how about you try to start leading some? I would join in but havent been playing on Cannith lately to much to do lately I should take a look my paladin wouldnt take long to get flagged.

lugoman
10-23-2009, 02:07 AM
Not a good idea, how about you try to start leading some? I would join in but havent been playing on Cannith lately to much to do lately I should take a look my paladin wouldnt take long to get flagged.

Because I am a new player and have never run one before. I would have no idea what I am doing.

Uska
10-23-2009, 02:19 AM
Because I am a new player and have never run one before. I would have no idea what I am doing.

Well I will try to help ya but have two online tests this weekend and a term paper to write but will work on getting flagged for reaver first then the dq only done the dq a couple of times but the reaver raid is really easy most the raid group would be just trying to stay alive(not really required) and I can do the puzzle about 95% just using my head.

deadmanet
10-23-2009, 02:28 AM
Because I am a new player and have never run one before. I would have no idea what I am doing.

None of us did when the raids first came out. We had to learn them ourselves. The best way to learn it, is by doing it.

*note*
Not trying to sound like one of the "elite vets" here, as I am far from it. I am about as casual as you can get and still manage to see the majority of the content in 3+ yrs. Take it from someone who allowed themselves to be lead thru the raids, try it. Been here since headstart over 3 yrs ago, and I would be uncomfortable leading a couple of the raids.:cool:

Maybe if I can get one of my characters on Cannith up there, I'll join ya and help with as much info as I know. What's your characters name? I'll look out for ya on Cannith. Not sure as to which character I would get up there, would have to purchase WF to play one of them(went from vip to premium, thats how casual I am):D

Uska
10-23-2009, 02:31 AM
None of us did when the raids first came out. We had to learn them ourselves. The best way to learn it, is by doing it.

*note*
Not trying to sound like one of the "elite vets" here, as I am far from it. I am about as casual as you can get and still manage to see the majority of the content in 3+ yrs. Take it from someone who allowed themselves to be lead thru the raids, try it. Been here since headstart over 3 yrs ago, and I would be uncomfortable leading a couple of the raids.:cool:

Maybe if I can get one of my characters on Cannith up there, I'll join ya and help with as much info as I know. What's your characters name? I'll look out for ya on Cannith. Not sure as to which character I would get up there, would have to purchase WF to play one of them(went from vip to premium, thats how casual I am):D

Only 8th on cannith myself, and I am a warforged.:) Your guild name always reminds me of my guild in SWG close in name we were Death from above a bountyhunter guild

Aranticus
10-23-2009, 02:50 AM
Because I am a new player and have never run one before. I would have no idea what I am doing.

have people forgot the thrill of exploration?

Gleipner
10-23-2009, 03:07 AM
have people forgot the thrill of exploration?

Yes people are by nature lazy :D and affraid of making themslef look like fools ;)

Trail and error only way to learn and muh more fun then having someone to hold your hand... i mean do you have your mother next to you when you play?

sirgog
10-23-2009, 03:37 AM
If you are flagged, try to find (via the forums) a group of other flagged people willing to dedicate 3-4 hours to working the raids out, you will have an absolute blast.

The Demon Queen is the only raid you could conceivably beat first try with all first timers (until the Shroud I suppose). The others all require tricks that will take *a lot* of figuring out.

lugoman
10-23-2009, 03:50 PM
have people forgot the thrill of exploration?

No, I havent. It is good fun to do quests that you havent done before. I havent had any problems finding full noob 6 man teams to do quest. The problem is finding enough people to do noob friendly raids. People want minimal effort to get in and get their loot and get out.

I am sure there are a lot more people willing to go trial and error when a raid first comes out. You have a whole server of people willing to tough it out to get loot. Once that initial wave is done it gets harder to find the people to do a raid, much less people willing to help out the noobs.

I really dont see the downside of having someone at Turbine run some noob friendly raids. I am not asking that they spawn the loot directly into our inventories or make things easier than normal.

Junts
10-23-2009, 03:51 PM
If Turbine pays me a salary, I'll do this.

Arianrhod
10-23-2009, 03:58 PM
I could go with some kind of promo weekend thing - message on login that a particular pack is on sale, suggesting a time and place for potential raiders to gather (Friday, 8 Eastern for flagging, Saturday at 8 for the raid!), then leave the rest of the organizing up to the players. Sometimes all it takes is to get a bunch of people in the same place at the same time, and they'll do the rest themselves ;)

amethystdragon
10-23-2009, 04:06 PM
I think the theroy behind this sugetsion is a good one. However I do not see a way for it to actualy be put in place.

Some sugestions that I have for you.
1. Try putting up an LFM for the raid that you are wanting to run, and put in comments that it is your first time and would like a guide.
2. If you are realy having that hard of a time finding groups, you might want to take a look at other servers and see what type of LFM's are up there. Just keep in mind things change all the time on each server.

I honestly think that if the vets want the new player base to improve and help the game improve, then we need to give them a hand when they are putting forth an effort and are still needing help.

Impaqt
10-23-2009, 04:11 PM
lol.. Too funny....

New Server! No Spoilers! No Twink! Casual Players rejoice!

(FF 5 Weeks)

How come no one wants to do the content for me?

cardmj1
10-23-2009, 04:25 PM
My advice is to put up together your own party and put in the lfm, "first timer, bring your sense of humor". You may or may not get a vet to show you the ropes, but you will definitely get a group who will be like minded and willing to try.

More advice: when trying a raid you are completely new to, make sure everyone goes in with the knowledge of exploration. Do not use any consummables (ie wands, scrolls, potions) on the first few attempts. This will keep the costs down and have people check their combat logs for damage done, damage taken, enemies encountered, and the environment (skulls swirling in the air, passageways blocked by a shield, traps, jumping areas.) Make it a team effort. You will find that everyone involved becomes more and more dedicated to solving the raid, the ones that don't were probably not helpful to begin with and replace them as they leave. You also don't need a full raid group for these exploring runs, just like minded people.

deadmanet
10-23-2009, 04:39 PM
If Turbine pays me a salary, I'll do this.

Lol...that would make me go start grinding them myself to learn every bit of the raid so I could lead them easily. I'd even do it for TP! :cool:

Seriously though, it's been said multiple times(by the non-trolls) best way to learn it, is to do it. Can get frustrating, but in the long run, it will be worth it(IMO)

SquelchHU
10-23-2009, 05:07 PM
lol.. Too funny....

New Server! No Spoilers! No Twink! Casual Players rejoice!

(FF 5 Weeks)

How come no one wants to do the content for me?

No spoilers? I thought a bunch of bored vets rerolled on Cannith? They might not have their gear, but they still have their knowledge.

Gadget2775
10-23-2009, 05:13 PM
Don't want to sound like to total &*&^$@ (use your imagination...make it colorful :D), but yours are probably the groups I avoid. The ones that sit there forever with a "Need Guide" statement in them just irritate the bug *&$&% (more off color wording) outa me.

I have no problem joining a group that doesn't know what they're doing. I have no problems helping players learn a quest. I have a HUGE problem with players who're unwilling to try without someone holding their hand.

lugoman
10-23-2009, 06:02 PM
Don't want to sound like to total &*&^$@ (use your imagination...make it colorful :D), but yours are probably the groups I avoid. The ones that sit there forever with a "Need Guide" statement in them just irritate the bug *&$&% (more off color wording) outa me.

I have no problem joining a group that doesn't know what they're doing. I have no problems helping players learn a quest. I have a HUGE problem with players who're unwilling to try without someone holding their hand.

I totally understand this statement. If I had run raids on 5 alts and can do it with my eyes closed then I too wouldnt want any noobs messing up my runs. That is why it should be up to Turbine to ensure their customers are having a good time, not other players.

lugoman
10-23-2009, 06:06 PM
lol.. Too funny....

New Server! No Spoilers! No Twink! Casual Players rejoice!

(FF 5 Weeks)

How come no one wants to do the content for me?

Where did you get I want someone to do the content for me? I dont want easy mode. My original point is the raid isnt being run as a pug AT ALL when I am on. Maybe you are right and I have just leveled past the majority of players on Cannith and just need to wait for them to catch up.

Club'in
10-23-2009, 06:08 PM
I totally understand this statement. If I had run raids on 5 alts and can do it with my eyes closed then I too wouldnt want any noobs messing up my runs. That is why it should be up to Turbine to ensure their customers are having a good time, not other players.

I think you're missing Gadget's attitude. He'll be glad to help. But he isn't gonna play puppetmaster for you, just guard your back as you stumble around in the dark.

Aranticus
10-23-2009, 07:48 PM
No, I havent. It is good fun to do quests that you havent done before. I havent had any problems finding full noob 6 man teams to do quest. The problem is finding enough people to do noob friendly raids. People want minimal effort to get in and get their loot and get out.

I am sure there are a lot more people willing to go trial and error when a raid first comes out. You have a whole server of people willing to tough it out to get loot. Once that initial wave is done it gets harder to find the people to do a raid, much less people willing to help out the noobs.

I really dont see the downside of having someone at Turbine run some noob friendly raids. I am not asking that they spawn the loot directly into our inventories or make things easier than normal.

It isn't about the lack of people running the raid, it's about the lack of people wanting to learn the raid. Go ahead put up a lfm and stat that you are a first timer. You will be surprised that many players like you will join. There will even be vets willing to hop on to guide you if they are flagged. The main thing is someone gotta start it

he who waits never arrives

lugoman
10-23-2009, 11:25 PM
It isn't about the lack of people running the raid, it's about the lack of people wanting to learn the raid. Go ahead put up a lfm and stat that you are a first timer. You will be surprised that many players like you will join. There will even be vets willing to hop on to guide you if they are flagged. The main thing is someone gotta start it

he who waits never arrives

And he who puts up lfm spends a long time doing rares while waiting for team to fill up all the while people dropping because it is taking to long. Maybe I am just playing at a bad time.

Gadget2775
10-23-2009, 11:55 PM
I totally understand this statement. If I had run raids on 5 alts and can do it with my eyes closed then I too wouldnt want any noobs messing up my runs. That is why it should be up to Turbine to ensure their customers are having a good time, not other players.

No, you don't get it. Turbine shouldn't be leading Raids. Players should be playing them. It's players wanting others to do all the work for them without learning on their own that bothers me. My favorite days to play are when a Mod first hits and I get to explore the new content, figure out the puzzles , find the traps. It's less enjoyable for me when I loose out on that experience.

It has nothing to do with new players messing up the quest. It has everything to do with an unwillingness to do for oneself. As others have said, if there's a marker in the LFM saying new to quest it isn't going to drive me away. It's NEED GUIDE type messages that bothers me. That whole statement says "I'm too lazy try/learn for myself".

Makar40
10-24-2009, 12:57 AM
The idea that Turbine should be leading raids because you dont wanna put forth the effort to help yourself is without a doubt one of the funnier things Ive read in an MMO forum. People arent running pug raids? No wai d00d! In most MMO's Ive been a part of (many), pug raids were the exception, not the rule. Most raids get done by guilds. People dont wanna waste hours of thier time with pugs that suck. Join a guild that runs raids, end of story.

thegreatcthulhu
10-24-2009, 01:30 AM
The problem with this suggestion is that it is a result, caused by an even more subversive and sadly, difficult to address (or realize) problem.


... unfortunately, I have a post of my own to hammer out; thus I will save my long-winded comment for this particular thread, for later.

lugoman
10-24-2009, 11:11 AM
No, you don't get it. Turbine shouldn't be leading Raids. Players should be playing them. It's players wanting others to do all the work for them without learning on their own that bothers me. My favorite days to play are when a Mod first hits and I get to explore the new content, figure out the puzzles , find the traps. It's less enjoyable for me when I loose out on that experience.

It has nothing to do with new players messing up the quest. It has everything to do with an unwillingness to do for oneself. As others have said, if there's a marker in the LFM saying new to quest it isn't going to drive me away. It's NEED GUIDE type messages that bothers me. That whole statement says "I'm too lazy try/learn for myself".

When the mod first hits, everyone is psyched up about new content and dying/failing is part of the fun. Three months later when the same person is running an alt through the content for the 20th time they arent so patient and will drop a team at the first mistake. Raids seem to be more complex and unforgiving than quests thus exasperating this problem. You may not be this type of player but there are enough of them out there that it is a problem for new players doing older content.

I dont see it as a laziness problem but a time problem. I dont care if a raid wipes a few times before it is finally completed. The problem is some people will drop at the first sign of trouble causing downtime while we wait to fill spot. I only have a limited time to play.

lugoman
10-24-2009, 11:21 AM
The idea that Turbine should be leading raids because you dont wanna put forth the effort to help yourself is without a doubt one of the funnier things Ive read in an MMO forum. People arent running pug raids? No wai d00d! In most MMO's Ive been a part of (many), pug raids were the exception, not the rule. Most raids get done by guilds. People dont wanna waste hours of thier time with pugs that suck. Join a guild that runs raids, end of story.

I dont really get this type of post. Why do you care how I play the game? How are you harmed if someone from turbine runs a scheduled pug raid? You can still run your guild runs all day long if you want to. Because I am in a small guild of new players who dont have unlimited time to spend online, I shouldnt be allowed access to certain parts of the game? There is a reason why the game went f2p - it needed new players to continue. I would think keeping these new players in game and buying new content would be a top priority to vet players. If new players all quit at higher levels because they cant access content then all your work on all your toons will go down the tubes when DDO is canceled.

Quikster
10-24-2009, 11:34 AM
And he who puts up lfm spends a long time doing rares while waiting for team to fill up all the while people dropping because it is taking to long. Maybe I am just playing at a bad time.

On the positive side, you wont be able to do rares in a raid group (unless you are doing them in the sub which i doubt) so you dont have to worry about that part :D


Seriously throw an lfm up and put, "First time" in it. Grab some popcorn, and wait for it to fill. Once you do it once or twice you will be a pro, and you wont have to worry bout it anymore.

Cedwin
10-24-2009, 11:51 AM
You can always wait until you are a 2 or 3 levels higher than the raid, and then go back and 6 man it. You don't always have to have a full raid party to do the raids, unless you plan on a zerg-fest.

lugoman
10-24-2009, 02:26 PM
On the positive side, you wont be able to do rares in a raid group (unless you are doing them in the sub which i doubt) so you dont have to worry about that part :D


Seriously throw an lfm up and put, "First time" in it. Grab some popcorn, and wait for it to fill. Once you do it once or twice you will be a pro, and you wont have to worry bout it anymore.

yes, that was trying to do the gianthold pre raid.

Croix
10-24-2009, 03:11 PM
A few guildies and myself explored the Orchard of the Macrabe last night and had an absolute blast! Coming back after a 2+year break and seeing how big that explore area was with hidden bosses & quests there........... I was more than just pleasantly suprized.

My point is take your time. There is nothing more fun than getting with a group of friends and enjoying the unexpected ecstasy of hacking up new and improved monsters. Of course repeating quests is always fun too, especially with this game but the unknown factor has that extra thrill to it. :)

ZexionII
10-25-2009, 01:11 AM
I totally understand this statement. If I had run raids on 5 alts and can do it with my eyes closed then I too wouldnt want any noobs messing up my runs. That is why it should be up to Turbine to ensure their customers are having a good time, not other players.

Man, you are missing his point completely. He doesn't mind "n00bs messing up his runs". He minds people being scared of taking initiative, sitting around like scared little babies waiting for their mommy to tell them what to do.

lugoman
10-25-2009, 01:32 AM
Man, you are missing his point completely. He doesn't mind "n00bs messing up his runs". He minds people being scared of taking initiative, sitting around like scared little babies waiting for their mommy to tell them what to do.

Yes that is exactly what I meant in my original post. I wish my mommy was here to hold my hand while I play in case I start to cry.

I have played enough online games to know that the game base is always split into those who will lead and start groups and those who wont. The ones who wont out number the others by a pretty big margin. You can moan and demand they play a certain way or call them babies all you want, but if they cant play the game the way they want to they will just quit. It just seems like a good idea for turbine to help this group better enjoy the game.

Gadget2775
10-25-2009, 06:05 PM
When the mod first hits, everyone is psyched up about new content and dying/failing is part of the fun. Three months later when the same person is running an alt through the content for the 20th time they arent so patient and will drop a team at the first mistake. Raids seem to be more complex and unforgiving than quests thus exasperating this problem. You may not be this type of player but there are enough of them out there that it is a problem for new players doing older content.

All I'm hearing is whining. I still go into Raids that wipe. None of them are a sure thing. The Reavers been out for ages, and a group I was in wiped not even a month ago. Not because anyone did anything wrong, but because the air elementals picked off the Clerics. Half the group dropped. Boo-frigin-who. We took the time to refill and push on.

That being said: Having Turbine lead the Raid won't solve anything.

The first and most obvious problem is they should be designing and producing interesting content for the player base. At no time should they take away from their work load to babysit players.
Secondly those same *&^@ who run off at the first sign of a problem are still going to run off when things go south. Any why wouldn't they go south? I mean heck you want to put 11 players who aren't willing to try for themselves in a Raid they haven't done before and you're think it'll work out fine? That none of them are gona mess it up and then drop because they just wasted xxx time?
Third, when the Raids do go bad those same player are now going to blame Turbine for ruining their game play. "You stole my money and time!!" they'll scream. Because obviously if the game maker is running a Raid it should be a smooth easy ride across the finish line. And if it isn't woe betide Turbine.
Fourth how many man hours should they sink into these runs? At a minimum your looking at what 12 hours? 2 hours per server at least once a week. Of course that wouldn't ever be enough. All it takes is them doing this once and players are demanding more...They'll want every Raid run every week so that everyone has a shot. Can't stop there though, there'd still be players who couldn't fit into those runs. Better make it a full set of Raids every night. Where does it stop? (Before it even starts is the obvious answer)


If you really want to Raid form your own group. Use the forums for your Server. Expand your guild. Make friends with other guilds. Do what ever YOU need to. Don't expect others to do it for you.

redoubt
10-26-2009, 05:00 PM
Because I am a new player and have never run one before. I would have no idea what I am doing.

Well, how do you think those raids were run the first time?

lugoman
10-26-2009, 05:38 PM
All I'm hearing is whining. I still go into Raids that wipe. None of them are a sure thing. The Reavers been out for ages, and a group I was in wiped not even a month ago. Not because anyone did anything wrong, but because the air elementals picked off the Clerics. Half the group dropped. Boo-frigin-who. We took the time to refill and push on.

That being said: Having Turbine lead the Raid won't solve anything.

The first and most obvious problem is they should be designing and producing interesting content for the player base. At no time should they take away from their work load to babysit players.
Secondly those same *&^@ who run off at the first sign of a problem are still going to run off when things go south. Any why wouldn't they go south? I mean heck you want to put 11 players who aren't willing to try for themselves in a Raid they haven't done before and you're think it'll work out fine? That none of them are gona mess it up and then drop because they just wasted xxx time?
Third, when the Raids do go bad those same player are now going to blame Turbine for ruining their game play. "You stole my money and time!!" they'll scream. Because obviously if the game maker is running a Raid it should be a smooth easy ride across the finish line. And if it isn't woe betide Turbine.
Fourth how many man hours should they sink into these runs? At a minimum your looking at what 12 hours? 2 hours per server at least once a week. Of course that wouldn't ever be enough. All it takes is them doing this once and players are demanding more...They'll want every Raid run every week so that everyone has a shot. Can't stop there though, there'd still be players who couldn't fit into those runs. Better make it a full set of Raids every night. Where does it stop? (Before it even starts is the obvious answer)


Maybe I didnt make myself clear. It isnt about anyone helping me do a raid, or making it easier, or telling me exactly what to do every second. It is about just getting a group to join in the first place. Just looking at the grouping window when I am online the only raid I regularly see looking for people is Tempest Spine. I've never seen a DQ raid and only once saw a gianthold raid or shroud.



If you really want to Raid form your own group. Use the forums for your Server. Expand your guild. Make friends with other guilds. Do what ever YOU need to. Don't expect others to do it for you.

Yes, these are a valid options, but guess what? I dont find doing any of that very fun. I dont NEED to play DDO. Maybe you just cant play the high end content unless you do all the things you mention here. If so I guess DDO isnt the game for me.

lugoman
10-26-2009, 05:44 PM
Well, how do you think those raids were run the first time?

Probably on a beta server with people who are there specifically to be the first to solve it. So they are ready to explore/try/fail as long as it takes. Same thing when the raid first goes live. You have a whole server of people who are patient enough to get their loot. A few months goes by and the pool of people with enough patience to do an "imperfect" raid goes way down.

Gadget2775
10-26-2009, 06:49 PM
Maybe I didnt make myself clear. It isnt about anyone helping me do a raid, or making it easier, or telling me exactly what to do every second. It is about just getting a group to join in the first place. Just looking at the grouping window when I am online the only raid I regularly see looking for people is Tempest Spine. I've never seen a DQ raid and only once saw a gianthold raid or shroud.


You made yourself very clear. You aren't willing to help yourself out. The only way YOU will run the content is if someone takes the time to set things up for YOU.

And you're still barking up the wrong tree if you expect Turbine to set up and run Raids. They aren't in the business of running Raids. They're in the business of making them, providing servers, prepping new content and providing a platform for players to enjoy. It's (hold on to your seat here...Cause this is a shocking concept) up to the players to play the game. (Wow! I know! I mean just way out there!)

Trying to foist it off on Turbine isn't just lazy, it's wrong (see my previous post if you need a refresher on why). It doesn't matter how you put it out, as soon as runs are stamped "Turbine" they cross a line and open themselves up to all sorts of abuse and hostility.


Yes, these are a valid options, but guess what? I dont find doing any of that very fun. I dont NEED to play DDO. Maybe you just cant play the high end content unless you do all the things you mention here. If so I guess DDO isnt the game for me.

No, you aren't locked out of high end content. You may have locked yourself out of Raids and the less popular content, but that's your own doing and no one elses. Good luck finding an MMO where the Dev Teams sets up Raids for you. Really, good luck with that.

lugoman
10-27-2009, 01:50 AM
You made yourself very clear. You aren't willing to help yourself out. The only way YOU will run the content is if someone takes the time to set things up for YOU.

And you're still barking up the wrong tree if you expect Turbine to set up and run Raids. They aren't in the business of running Raids. They're in the business of making them, providing servers, prepping new content and providing a platform for players to enjoy. It's (hold on to your seat here...Cause this is a shocking concept) up to the players to play the game. (Wow! I know! I mean just way out there!)

Trying to foist it off on Turbine isn't just lazy, it's wrong (see my previous post if you need a refresher on why). It doesn't matter how you put it out, as soon as runs are stamped "Turbine" they cross a line and open themselves up to all sorts of abuse and hostility.


No, you aren't locked out of high end content. You may have locked yourself out of Raids and the less popular content, but that's your own doing and no one elses. Good luck finding an MMO where the Dev Teams sets up Raids for you. Really, good luck with that.



Other mmo's have players who set up public raids, ddo doesnt. I really dont get why you care who leads raids. Maybe I am lazy or mentally challenged and dont want the hassle of starting and leading a raid. Why do you care if I join someone else's? How does it matter if it is some random player or an intern at Turbine? What abuse are you talking about? I think it would encourage people to buy the adventure packs that have raids in them if they were actually able to do the raids. It's a crazy theory I know.

FluffyCalico
10-27-2009, 01:51 AM
Because I am a new player and have never run one before. I would have no idea what I am doing.

But canith is the server for no spoiling. If you want to be shown any of the other servers would be a better choice

Uska
10-27-2009, 02:46 AM
Other mmo's have players who set up public raids, ddo doesnt. I really dont get why you care who leads raids. Maybe I am lazy or mentally challenged and dont want the hassle of starting and leading a raid. Why do you care if I join someone else's? How does it matter if it is some random player or an intern at Turbine? What abuse are you talking about? I think it would encourage people to buy the adventure packs that have raids in them if they were actually able to do the raids. It's a crazy theory I know.

There are public raids I joined two today the reaver and the shroud I didnt know anyone there, there as a guildie there but I had never ran with him before as far as I know went really smooth and we even had a couple of newbies in both raids people were very helpful to the new people, so maybe your just playing on the wrong server or meeting the wrong people, I suggest trying Ghallanda or Khyber if you do I am willing to help you as much as I can.

Arianrhod
10-27-2009, 07:13 AM
Other mmo's have players who set up public raids, ddo doesnt. I really dont get why you care who leads raids. Maybe I am lazy or mentally challenged and dont want the hassle of starting and leading a raid. Why do you care if I join someone else's? How does it matter if it is some random player or an intern at Turbine? What abuse are you talking about? I think it would encourage people to buy the adventure packs that have raids in them if they were actually able to do the raids. It's a crazy theory I know.

I find I see public raids more often on DDO than other MMOs; they're uncommon enough in any case that having a character not in the right level range or of a preferred build means likely never getting to do the raid with that character, however (at least in the case of those raids with components that can't be soloed or duoed). Just try setting up a LFM for VON5 Normal (slow, trying to learn quest) with a level 16 ranger and see how quickly it fills :P

I don't think Turbine should lead the raids themselves; they don't need to open themselves up to the kind of "feedback" they'd get if everyone wasn't 100% satisfied. Still, a simple "suggested time & date" for getting a raid together when advertising a promotion on that raid's adventure pack could help get the ball rolling for reluctant leaders.

Sirea
10-27-2009, 07:25 AM
This thread makes my head hurt :(

Gadget2775
10-28-2009, 10:37 PM
Other mmo's have players who set up public raids, ddo doesnt.

Completely untrue. Even though I'm in a Well equipped Guild that Raids on a regular basis I still run at least half my Raids in Pugs. Heck, even our Guild Raids end up open to the public if we don't have enough player to fill, and I've never been a part of a DWAT Raid that didn't accept virgins. We not only accept them but are willing to teach them what to do. This all happens on Xoriat (errr, Thelanis, yeah. That's the ticket ;)). If you can't find what you want/need on the Server you're on switch servers. If you're on Cannith and won't switch you'll just have to wait until the server matures enough to have a constantly Raiding population.


Other mmo's have players who set up public raids, ddo doesnt.

Yes, I'm double posting this quote...Want to address the bolded portion. It should be the players who are setting up and running content. No, I don't mean devs should never play the game. However, they shouldn't be playing as Devs. It should be in their off time as PLAYERS. It should never be a Turbine employee acting in their capacity as a Turbine employee running/setting up Raids and quest for the player base.

Take some time...Track back through our Dev tracker. See how much *&#@! they catch for everything they do, especially if someone feels they've been slacking off from their "Job" as a dev. Now imagine how many problems would result from a Turbine Employee having a Raid go south. It isn't pretty, it isn't fun and it isn't their job.


I really dont get why you care who leads raids. Maybe I am lazy or mentally challenged and dont want the hassle of starting and leading a raid. Why do you care if I join someone else's? How does it matter if it is some random player or an intern at Turbine? What abuse are you talking about? I think it would encourage people to buy the adventure packs that have raids in them if they were actually able to do the raids. It's a crazy theory I know.

For the most part I don't care who runs your Raids. I care about Turbine running Raids, period. I care about them diverting the resources required to run these Raids away from Developing the game. You say just stick an intern in and let em go! Wooo hoo! Free labor right? No such thing. Every employee (Intern or not) diverted from producing the game cost them money. And did you think about the number of Interns they'd have to stick on this? 6 Servers x 8 Raids (please correct me if I missed one) x 3 times a day (minimum...Why minimum? Because you have to make sure all of the raids are run at least enough to cover morning, evening and after hours shifts.). Even then they'd probably need to run each Raid at least twice preferably 3 or four times a shift to keep everyone happy....It's insane to expect them to dedicated that sort of manpower to PLAYING the game when their job is to developer.

I really hope that puts it into perspective for you. If not, well. You're perfectly entitled to your opinion and I'll leave you to it. Hope you enjoy DDO for a long time to come.

Cyr
10-29-2009, 08:33 AM
Because I am a new player and have never run one before. I would have no idea what I am doing.

Well figure them out? No one knew them before someone did them. None of them are super hard to figure out. Oh and by the way, Can is a new server and as such has less people of the appropriate levels running around. Check out another servers LFM's one day and you will see tons of pug raids up.