PDA

View Full Version : Dungeon scaling and quest level?



DANTEIL
10-22-2009, 04:11 PM
I have a question about how to gauge the difficulty of a dungeon before tackling it. I know that this is affected by things like dungeon scaling, so basically I'd be interested in a good rule of thumb for what might be a good way to tell whether a particular quest might be too hard or just right -- say, as a solo player. For example, if my character is level 6, does that mean that a level 6 quest should be about just right to tackle solo, and that a level 4 might be generally easy, and that a level 8 shouldn't be attempted unless one has hirelings and/or is willing to accept defeat?

Then, what if one has a full party? With dungeon scaling, would a full party of approx. level 6 (maybe levels 5-7) characters be about right for a level 6 quest? Or is scaling non-linear, such that a full party of *lower* level characters, say maybe levels 3-5, could reasonably expect to succeed at a level 6 quest?

thanks!

Arianrhod
10-22-2009, 04:20 PM
I have a question about how to gauge the difficulty of a dungeon before tackling it. I know that this is affected by things like dungeon scaling, so basically I'd be interested in a good rule of thumb for what might be a good way to tell whether a particular quest might be too hard or just right -- say, as a solo player. For example, if my character is level 6, does that mean that a level 6 quest should be about just right to tackle solo, and that a level 4 might be generally easy, and that a level 8 shouldn't be attempted unless one has hirelings and/or is willing to accept defeat?

Then, what if one has a full party? With dungeon scaling, would a full party of approx. level 6 (maybe levels 5-7) characters be about right for a level 6 quest? Or is scaling non-linear, such that a full party of *lower* level characters, say maybe levels 3-5, could reasonably expect to succeed at a level 6 quest?

thanks!

The trouble is, quests vary wildly in difficulty and risk vs. reward, even at the same level. Take for instance Forgotten Caverns, Purge the Heretics, and Taming the Flames. All level 6 quests. Forgotten Caverns is fun and challenging, but reasonably forgiving and doable at level solo or with a group. Purge the Heretics has some nasty surprises in it, and gives pathetic XP for the level. Taming the Flames is brutal to attempt at level. There's just no way to find this out other than researching each quest, or attempting them and discovering directly what they're like.

TFPAQ
10-22-2009, 04:23 PM
First some background ...

Prior to F2P, back when there were no "solo" dungeons, etc. A careful, well thought out toon could run a significant amount of the quests at level on Normal.

Moving up to Hard, really only inflated mob HP (except for Kobold Shaman, mephits and spiders I think that got out of hand at the time). So it really didn't get harder, just typically more resource intensive (used more pots, wands, etc).

We used to say that from a "level" standpoint Hard = Normal +1.

The big difference came when you moved to Elite. Mobs HP was drastically increased, spells they cast went up, resists, etc, so Elite = Normal +4 pretty much.

Then came "Solo" levels that were approximately Normal/2.

So in general you could run Normal at level, maybe hard (more quest specific) and almost nothing Elite. In fact it was usually easier to run something two levels higher on hard than on level elite.

Now, I don't think there is almost anything outside of raids that can't be handled at level on hard (assuming you have enough bodies to step on/pull switches).

Dungeon scaling is set for a 4 member group and scales down from there. It doesn't "up" scale for a 6 member group. You should be able to run anything at lvl with a 6 member group easily.

At higher levels, the issues become mob casters and how well you are geared/specced to handle what they are throwing.

DANTEIL
10-22-2009, 04:43 PM
Thanks, but I still have some questions...


The trouble is, quests vary wildly in difficulty and risk vs. reward, even at the same level.

If this is true, then what do the level numbers in the Quests window really signify? Should they just be ignored? How do I know when I'm ready to move 'up' to the next level of quests rather than just repeating the lower level quests I've already done? Do I just have to see how quickly I die first?



Dungeon scaling is set for a 4 member group and scales down from there. It doesn't "up" scale for a 6 member group. You should be able to run anything at lvl with a 6 member group easily.

Again, similar question: So does that mean that a 4-member group at all approximately 6th level (for example) will be about right for a level 6 quest? And yes, I just meant on Normal -- the whole Normal/Hard/Elite distinction is really something I haven't had enough experience with yet.

This seem important not only for deciding what quests I should be trying solo, but also for deciding which quests/levels might be appropriate to specify for an LFM..

TFPAQ
10-22-2009, 04:51 PM
A 6 member group should be able to run anything at their level range. There are a couple of quests in each lvl range that are out of whack, Proof - Poison for example. Running on Normal you should be able to "easily" finish at level quests. This assumes group play and not a 6 man solo adventure however. With a 6 man crew you shouldn't have any suprises slightly over level either.

MichaelBerea
10-22-2009, 04:59 PM
Dungeon scaling is set for a 4 member group and scales down from there. It doesn't "up" scale for a 6 member group. You should be able to run anything at lvl with a 6 member group easily.
At higher levels, the issues become mob casters and how well you are geared/specced to handle what they are throwing.
Thanks! That was really helpful! +1



If this is true, then what do the level numbers in the Quests window really signify?
The quest level info is more useful in combination with the recommended party size. Occasionally a super-tough dungeon will also mention that it is an extreme challenge.

Regarding knowing the quests, the only source I have seen is Lost Leader’s Guide (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=122192).
It is so fantastic for the things it is trying to do that it just about doubles the amount of fun I get out of the game, especially when I am organizing a group. Turbine really should pay him.


It might be useful to have an abbreviated guide that just lists the quest difficulties (relative to same-level quests). Has anyone created one?


Also, does class composition affect dungeon scaling? I run a lot of 2-3 person groups and it seems like a group with a Cleric and dps’er faces higher scaling than two melee dps’ers see. Though that could just be due to sampling error.

HamHamJ
10-22-2009, 06:38 PM
If this is true, then what do the level numbers in the Quests window really signify? Should they just be ignored? How do I know when I'm ready to move 'up' to the next level of quests rather than just repeating the lower level quests I've already done? Do I just have to see how quickly I die first?

The level of the quest will be pretty accurate in regards to the types and stats of monsters that will be in it and the damage dealt by traps, in my experience. What it won't account for is the difficulty of the quest from layout and actually playing through it.

In other words, statistically and mechanically a group of characters will be capable of beating any quest of their level, however some will require far more play skill, party cohesion, etc. IE Taiming the Flames. I think that with a good group that plans ahead, sticks together, and follows orders you could do it at it's appropriate level. But without that, you are doomed. And you are probably still doomed even if you are several levels over the quest level.