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View Full Version : Are you really going to release this update with no new PrE's? Really?



Fennario
10-20-2009, 11:06 AM
I know that there is still a chance that missing PrE's will make it in, but I am losing faith. With the new splash screen and no mention of them, with devs mentioning they would like to get the new update out ASAP, with not even a hint of what the PrE's will do, its not looking good.

Don't get me wrong, a repec system is a good thing. I do have problems with this system, but that is for another thread.

But what about all the classes that have not even got a sniff of their PrE's??? Wizard, Sorcerer, Cleric, Favored Soul, Monk??? Remember these classes???

Maybe they want to see what their full potential is before they reincarnate themselves into something else.

Just another example of the caster classes getting the big middle finger in this game. And don't even get me started on monks.

KoboldKiller
10-20-2009, 11:12 AM
At this point in time with their new f2p mechanic it is probably better for them to get the content out and then add the PrE's later when they have them worked out.

Fennario
10-20-2009, 11:17 AM
At this point in time with their new f2p mechanic it is probably better for them to get the content out and then add the PrE's later when they have them worked out.

Aren't PrE's content though? If by content you mean quests, then I don't see how 5 new end game quests, and an epic Demon Sands helps out the free players. Aren't most of the new free players still bumbling around the harbor and marketplace? Surely most are not ready to buy end game stuff yet.

MDS_Geist
10-20-2009, 11:43 AM
Since we still don't know when the module will be released (soon), we may still see more content. As you probably recall, there were things released at different times on the last Lammania preview also.

KoboldKiller
10-20-2009, 11:49 AM
Aren't PrE's content though? If by content you mean quests, then I don't see how 5 new end game quests, and an epic Demon Sands helps out the free players. Aren't most of the new free players still bumbling around the harbor and marketplace? Surely most are not ready to buy end game stuff yet.


While I don't disagree with you Turbine cannot afford to have another long delay like this last time due to trying to fix buggy PrE's or whatever the hold up may be on those. You saw the outrage over this last delay. It's not as if they can't release whatever content they have ready and then patch other stuff in later. For all we know that's the plan, release quests and whtever other stuff they have ready and then do small periodic additions.

Aeneas
10-20-2009, 11:57 AM
Would rather see the new quests and reincarnation as soon as possible.

PrE additions should be reserved for update 1.1

ArkoHighStar
10-20-2009, 12:00 PM
My bet is PrE's will come with update 2 in January/February. turbine's MO has always been to release content with 2 elements with pretty much every major mod

1.Quests(usually a quest arc with a raid or 6 man raid)
2. SOmething non quest related like level up, new mechanisms etc.

This goes to thethought that Turbine only has enough resources to push one large mechanism change per update. This update was reincarnation, which I doubt was a 5 second fix. Certainly we will get one or 2 patches before update 2 with hopefully updates togreater re eincarnation to allow the level changes we have asked for, and Turbine has indicated they are working on.

Then with update 2 we will get another round of quests and another non quest item, my guess it will be the rounding out of the pr'e's.
But think about this closely we are talking about updates every 3 months, something we haven't seen in 2 years.

Strakeln
10-20-2009, 12:00 PM
At this point in time with their new f2p mechanic it is probably better for them to get the content out and then add the PrE's later when they have them worked out.

Right idea, wrong reasoning. The F2Ps have TONS of content they've never seen. It's the vets who are choosing between 6 new quests and a raid or the content they ran all last year.

Aeneas
10-20-2009, 12:04 PM
It's the vets who are choosing between 6 new quests and a raid or the content they ran all last year.

For sure, lets get that reincarnation in game so the vets can take their favorites back through it all at top speed. I know myself and a few friends i've spoken to are sort of uninspired at the moment because they feel like playing their capped characters is something of a waste since they're in a holding pattern until they can true reincarnate and do work.

Strakeln
10-20-2009, 02:04 PM
For sure, lets get that reincarnation in game so the vets can take their favorites back through it all at top speed. I know myself and a few friends i've spoken to are sort of uninspired at the moment because they feel like playing their capped characters is something of a waste since they're in a holding pattern until they can true reincarnate and do work.
Oh, I dunno, running through the game again doesn't sound like a good solution to boredom for me. As it is, I only roll 1-2 new toons a year so I don't get too over-burned-out on lowbie content again.

Grind != Quest Content

jakeelala
10-20-2009, 04:12 PM
I would think PrE's need the least testing compared to something extremely complicated like Reincarnation. Therefore they released it first. I bet we see some prestige classes in this update, just not on Lama yet.

Shade
10-20-2009, 04:18 PM
Talked with a dev ingame.

The update is complete. What you see there now, is what's going on live soon.

Mjesko
10-20-2009, 04:29 PM
Talked with a dev ingame.

The update is complete. What you see there now, is what's going on live soon.

Oh that is sad and probably means no new prestige enhancements in the next 3 months, which i do not understand, because they have already released item sets for many prestige enhancements and should have completed most of them before they build the item sets.

Gladiator_206
10-20-2009, 04:34 PM
"Monks? No those arn't in game yet.."

Thats my opinion of how the devs see monks. We wont see their capstone for a long time. Try next year.

Angelus_dead
10-20-2009, 05:19 PM
Thats my opinion of how the devs see monks. We wont see their capstone for a long time.
The monk class was the first to have a capstone released.

Jefro
10-20-2009, 05:20 PM
Talked with a dev ingame.

The update is complete. What you see there now, is what's going on live soon.

okay, must have missed on how they craft the extra potential on dream weapons, here I was holding out for another raid to be key piece :(

Bunker
10-20-2009, 05:54 PM
I'm all for more everything. More quests, Epic this, Reincarnation that.

However,

It has been almost a year since they release the PrEs that would be coming into the game. The released a few finished ones but there are still many more to be put into the game and some that need finishing.

It is nice to see all the new projects that i'm sure is taking up developers time, but how about FINISHING projects before starting new ones.

I for one would like to see the rest of the classes have thier finishing touches. And adding in the rest of the PrEs is in a sense releasing new content. Something that every player will enjoy and look forward to playing around with.

So lets see em soon Devs.

bobbryan2
10-20-2009, 06:00 PM
Yeah, I'd try to get a couple out this mod if you can.

Maybe just the bard ones? Or just the monk ones. Something that says one of them is close.

Bunker
10-20-2009, 06:06 PM
Yeah, I'd try to get a couple out this mod if you can.

Maybe just the bard ones? Or just the monk ones. Something that says one of them is close.

Just one? Now way jose! I say lets get them all out there. Let the Lamannian/ML/ect ect gamers test them out and lets get'm LIVE!

The one thing Turbine does have is a large supply of players happy to give feedback. Post em and lets get these PrEs rolling.

Heh, one. Funny stuff bob. But lets not give the Devs or anyone else at Turbine the idea that 1 is good.

KoboldKiller
10-20-2009, 06:09 PM
So let me ask this then. How long are you willing to wait for them to get the PrE's right before they release anything?

Natashaelle
10-20-2009, 06:28 PM
So let me ask this then. How long are you willing to wait for them to get the PrE's right before they release anything?

New Mods/Updates should not be delayed just because in-development content X isn't ready, in situations where there is quite enough content Y that's ready for release to constitute a new Mod/Update.

Bunker
10-20-2009, 06:29 PM
So let me ask this then. How long are you willing to wait for them to get the PrE's right before they release anything?

Trick question but I will answer anyways.

Most fans of DDO will probably answer by saying they will wait as long as possible for them to get it right. Sure there will be some players that will get fed up wit waiting for releases. Heck, we already lost some players because of just that very thing.

It isn't always about the speed at which they release stuff in game. I think it has a lot to do with communication or lack there of between the devs and the players.

It is coming up on 1 years since this:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=166967

.....was posted. We have seen little to know update of when these PrEs will be avaiable in game since then. Yeah yeah, I know, the new Mod, EU, ddo store......The list goes on and on *** what they have been busy doing.

So if they are busy, say so. Lets see that communication. Isn't there someone employed with Turbine that does that very thing. Tolero or something like that? But please, respect the players and kick the "Vast & Mysterious" answer into the trash. A few REAL answers would be great.

One other thing, if the devs don't know when they will be coming out, I bet they still have a date in mind. I'm sure they are scared to give the players a date for fear of not hitting it. Not like that hasn't happened before. Again, it comes down to communication.

P.S. Why is that a trick question you asked? We play the game. We like the game. Who would say they won't wait as long as it takes and then log back in and continue playing.

KoboldKiller
10-20-2009, 06:31 PM
New Mods/Updates should not be delayed just because in-development content X isn't ready, in situations where there is quite enough content Y that's ready for release to constitute a new Mod/Update.

This is my point. People are asking for PrE's to be released with this update which appear to not be ready so either they do not delay the update and release without them upsetting some people or the delay the release upsetting other people.

Bunker
10-20-2009, 06:35 PM
This is my point. People are asking for PrE's to be released with this update which appear to not be ready so either they do not delay the update and release without them upsetting some people or the delay the release upsetting other people.

Do you think that they should continue with the "Epic" quests before finishing and releasing the PrEs?

Twerpp
10-20-2009, 06:41 PM
I dont think its a horrible update, this last one focused on the launch of EU and aimed at newbs for the most part. This next one with True Reincarnate and re-specs obviously an attempt to please the hardcore. We are getting some long-awaited long asked-for stuff. As long as it doesnt take a year to launch or a year til the next mod I'm happy with it.

bobbryan2
10-20-2009, 06:45 PM
This is my point. People are asking for PrE's to be released with this update which appear to not be ready so either they do not delay the update and release without them upsetting some people or the delay the release upsetting other people.

It wouldn't be an issue if they would do smaller updates. But when things are delayed 4-5 months when they don't make it to the next update... it gets to be a big deal.

Taking your point to the extreme... We shouldn't have updates, because they should just release something as soon as it's finished. Not that I necessarily disagree with that assessment... but that's not how the devs do it, either.

jakeelala
10-20-2009, 09:09 PM
Talked with a dev ingame.

The update is complete. What you see there now, is what's going on live soon.

that was awfully forthcoming of them to just up and tell you that.

Lear_beta
10-21-2009, 04:12 AM
well i seriously don't mind much that we wont get the PrC in module 10 (i'm primary a Europe player), but i would very much like to know the planned effects of the missing prestige enchancements and the set effects on ToD rings. I'm getting closer to crafting my two rings on my main (clr), and well i have to swap around equipment, refarm SoS and prequests to get the right effects on armor. and well if i choose the wrong rings i have to do that again later on. and seriously i think farming for the right armor once, is bad, twice is horrible... if i have to do it 3 times.... i'll track down a dev and tickle him untill he cries!

MDS_Geist
10-21-2009, 07:55 AM
So if they are busy, say so. Lets see that communication. Isn't there someone employed with Turbine that does that very thing. Tolero or something like that? But please, respect the players and kick the "Vast & Mysterious" answer into the trash. A few REAL answers would be great.

If would be great if the Developers would give us some sort of Weekly Announcements or Updates. We could call it the DWA - Developer's Weekly Announcements, or maybe the WUD, Weekly Update (from the) Developers. Wouldn't that be a swell idea? :)

[Public service announcement: Yes, I know that we use to have a WDA and I looked forward to it each week. This is a not-even-close-to-subtle hint that it would be a good thing for that to come back]

Mjesko
10-21-2009, 11:25 AM
It has been almost a year since they release the PrEs that would be coming into the game. The released a few finished ones but there are still many more to be put into the game and some that need finishing.

It is nice to see all the new projects that i'm sure is taking up developers time, but how about FINISHING projects before starting new ones.


Yeah that is exactly how Turbine acts at the moment. They start many new projects (TR, epic quests, ...), but do not finish the old ones (ranged combat, prestige enhancements, ...).

KoboldKiller
10-21-2009, 11:33 AM
Do you think that they should continue with the "Epic" quests before finishing and releasing the PrEs?


Actually with the constant complaints I have seen by long term players about lack of content and things for them to do, plus the speed at which they blow through the new content, yes I do.

crooth
10-21-2009, 02:29 PM
I'm about to speculate, and thus I could be completely wrong. But...

It looks to me that this team just went through a pretty major vision change. They went from producing an MMO focused on competing head-to-head with WoW/<all others> to a new business model that has them competing but in a different way (for them and much of the US - I know this model is similar to the Asian market approach.)

Given what got released in EU, you have to imagine the leadership went to the team and said "Team, remember that old priority list? Throw it out - we're starting over with a new vision, and a new set of priorities. This new vision is why we will win in a market otherwise crowded with competitors." Of course you know why they did this, right? They were losing.

Now this doesn't meant the old list is literally gone, but I suspect there are several new things on the list. Also, I bet they are seeing what works/doesn't work with the new business model and tweaking the product as a result. All those new things will have a higher priority than the old things. I really believe they will eventually get to the old things because the game is incomplete without the PrEs and other stuff, but it will take longer than they first anticipated or promised.

What I see now is a new set of features aligned very strongly with the business model and that is focused on getting people to use that DDO store. Why introduce reincarnation? Because it has you starting over and if you're doing that who wouldn't want to use those cool XP potions? Oh, and if you've flipped from VIP to Premium, it has you interested in buying adventure packs for lower level content you otherwise wouldn't need. I'm sure you can see other reasons to use the store. And if people use the store, they win.

Mjesko
10-21-2009, 05:02 PM
What I see now is a new set of features aligned very strongly with the business model and that is focused on getting people to use that DDO store. Why introduce reincarnation? Because it has you starting over and if you're doing that who wouldn't want to use those cool XP potions? Oh, and if you've flipped from VIP to Premium, it has you interested in buying adventure packs for lower level content you otherwise wouldn't need. I'm sure you can see other reasons to use the store. And if people use the store, they win.

Hmmm yes, but the new prestige enhancements could encourage the players to test new builds and to purchase more character slots, tomes, ...

smatt
10-21-2009, 08:13 PM
I recall a post by Eladrin not to long ago, maybe 3-4 weeks where he mentioned in a very brief manner that he was currently working on new PrE's...... So it's likely going to be update 2 or 3....

smatt
10-21-2009, 08:24 PM
I'm about to speculate, and thus I could be completely wrong. But...

It looks to me that this team just went through a pretty major vision change. They went from producing an MMO focused on competing head-to-head with WoW/<all others> to a new business model that has them competing but in a different way (for them and much of the US - I know this model is similar to the Asian market approach.)

Given what got released in EU, you have to imagine the leadership went to the team and said "Team, remember that old priority list? Throw it out - we're starting over with a new vision, and a new set of priorities. This new vision is why we will win in a market otherwise crowded with competitors." Of course you know why they did this, right? They were losing.

Now this doesn't meant the old list is literally gone, but I suspect there are several new things on the list. Also, I bet they are seeing what works/doesn't work with the new business model and tweaking the product as a result. All those new things will have a higher priority than the old things. I really believe they will eventually get to the old things because the game is incomplete without the PrEs and other stuff, but it will take longer than they first anticipated or promised.

What I see now is a new set of features aligned very strongly with the business model and that is focused on getting people to use that DDO store. Why introduce reincarnation? Because it has you starting over and if you're doing that who wouldn't want to use those cool XP potions? Oh, and if you've flipped from VIP to Premium, it has you interested in buying adventure packs for lower level content you otherwise wouldn't need. I'm sure you can see other reasons to use the store. And if people use the store, they win.

Yep, you're likely close to the mark here... As I'e said all along, the game as time rolls on will be designed in ways to get you into that store.... The quests will be designed with this in mind, everything will. Kind of like how sports stadiums for a very longtime had very few drinking fountains in them.... Why give free water when they can charge you for a drink... Or how Disneyland USED to have a nice picnic area inside the the gates wehre a family could pack in their own lunch and eat away... Well that picnic area dissappeared....
I've also said from the beggining I think this is a good move business wise, it's a good model looking in rom the outside, and likely the best way they could've gone.

I think the game has been vastly improved with DDO-EU... It's better than I thought really, they pulled it off after a very rocky year. I don't blame them for taking the approach they have at all. There indeed are some very glaring, wait....... MANY annoying bugs and broken things left unfixed.... But it's pretty good overall....

I'm just hoping they do another bug patch soon...... The bugs new and long standing are piling up....

crooth
10-22-2009, 09:16 AM
Hmmm yes, but the new prestige enhancements could encourage the players to test new builds and to purchase more character slots, tomes, ...

Hmmm maybe, I'm not sure how many people create new chars for this purpose. Sounds like you do?

Given how cheap it is to respec enhancements I suspect PrEs are a gold sync more than they are a revenue source. But I admit I don't know for sure.

Yurtrus
10-22-2009, 09:22 AM
How about we just wait until they arrive, not complain and enjoy the game as it is now and for whatever they throw us each update?

404error
10-22-2009, 11:01 AM
No new PrE's for Update 1 but keep your ear to the ground for Update 2 in a month (or two).

Dylos_Moon
10-22-2009, 11:11 AM
No new PrE's for Update 1 but keep your ear to the ground for Update 2 in a month (or two).

:( well at least someone finally said something heads or tails about PrEs, there have been hordes of posts asking about PrEs, good to finally be thrown a bone.

Bunker
10-22-2009, 11:14 AM
:( well at least someone finally said something heads or tails about PrEs, there have been hordes of posts asking about PrEs, good to finally be thrown a bone.

He really didn't say anything about PrEs. He just said keep your ear to the ground. For all we know, we could be keeping our ear to the ground to hear them say nothing will be coming out for undate 2. :rolleyes:

I feel a touch of Vast and Mysterious about to hit the horizon.

Dylos_Moon
10-22-2009, 11:16 AM
He really didn't say anything about PrEs. He just said keep your ear to the ground. For all we know, we could be keeping our ear to the ground to hear them say nothing will be coming out for undate 2. :rolleyes:

I feel a touch of Vast and Mysterious about to hit the horizon.

What I meant was so far no one even had the guts to confirm that update one would not have PrEs. I mean Lamannia has been up for awhile, and there's been posts asking about PrEs the whole time, and its only now gotten a response saying that they aren't coming yet.

Mjesko
10-22-2009, 11:17 AM
No new PrE's for Update 1 but keep your ear to the ground for Update 2 in a month (or two).

Hmmm bad news are better than no news. I hope Update 2 will be released in 1 or 2 months.

kaelis
10-22-2009, 11:41 AM
Hmmm bad news are better than no news. I hope Update 2 will be released in 1 or 2 months.

There was an article posted earlier sayin that the DDO dev's we're hoping for update 2 to land sometime early next year (as in we get 'mod 10' (update 1) late november/early december, this year and then update 2 late febuary-early april. At least this is what I'm optimistic for.

Angelus_dead
10-22-2009, 12:07 PM
How about we just wait until they arrive, not complain and enjoy the game as it is now and for whatever they throw us each update?
This thread will answer your question
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=207721

Lorien_the_First_One
10-22-2009, 12:25 PM
No new PrE's for Update 1 but keep your ear to the ground for Update 2 in a month (or two).

Thanks 404. And may I say I'm rather excited to hear you think Update 2 will be here in 2 months. :D

kingfisher
10-22-2009, 12:37 PM
No new PrE's for Update 1 but keep your ear to the ground for Update 2 in a month (or two).

would said ear detect any whispers on the impending (soon) release of our pig-nosed friends?

Cyr
10-22-2009, 01:40 PM
No new PrE's for Update 1 but keep your ear to the ground for Update 2 in a month (or two).

Thanks for manning up 404 and delivering the bad news. I hope no one takes your delivery of the news as meaning you are the one working on these though or taking so long in doing so. Keep up the good work.

bobbryan2
10-22-2009, 02:14 PM
No new PrE's for Update 1 but keep your ear to the ground for Update 2 in a month (or two).

Thanks for the communication...

(even though it's sucky news.)

404error
10-22-2009, 03:49 PM
Thanks 404. And may I say I'm rather excited to hear you think Update 2 will be here in 2 months. :D

We may say something in two months but I wouldn't say it's a patch day.


Thanks for manning up 404 and delivering the bad news. I hope no one takes your delivery of the news as meaning you are the one working on these though or taking so long in doing so. Keep up the good work.

I'm in QA I'm all about the bad news. I deliver and make it.

Lorien_the_First_One
10-22-2009, 04:43 PM
We may say something in two months but I wouldn't say it's a patch day.

lol I figured, but it was worth a shot.

Given that most of us are guessing Nov/Dec for mod 1 drop hearing about mod 2 in 2 months with a say...DDO aniversaryish release date... would probably be a very happy thing indeed and would really show Turbine was back on track to the pre-legal trouble developement cycle.

The_Phenx
10-22-2009, 05:17 PM
Lame! Would you at least consider releasing the details?

So we can plan accordingly...

ArkoHighStar
10-22-2009, 05:20 PM
Lame! Would you at least consider releasing the details?

So we can plan accordingly...

I'm sure as soon as they are finalized or in a state similiar to when they rleased hem last time they will. My bet is they are still at best undergoing internal testing.

Gratch
10-22-2009, 07:27 PM
Lame! Would you at least consider releasing the details?

So we can plan accordingly...

Yeah... would like to hear thoughts on which classes' PREs are next on tap.

Moreso... would like to know whether the FvS set items will be ring/belt or ring/necklace...

smatt
10-23-2009, 04:18 AM
Thanks 404. And may I say I'm rather excited to hear you think Update 2 will be here in 2 months. :D


Hmm he didnt' say THAT... He said we MIGHT HEAR about it in 2 months.... So more likey it's in the area of 4 or 5 months away. Which is about right IF Update 1 is around 1 to 1 1/2 months away.

testing1234
12-06-2009, 06:45 PM
they cant sell PrE in shop

Xyfiel
12-06-2009, 09:33 PM
they cant sell PrE in shop

yet...

bobbryan2
12-06-2009, 09:51 PM
My bet is PrE's will come with update 2 in January/February. turbine's MO has always been to release content with 2 elements with pretty much every major mod

1.Quests(usually a quest arc with a raid or 6 man raid)
2. SOmething non quest related like level up, new mechanisms etc.

This goes to thethought that Turbine only has enough resources to push one large mechanism change per update. This update was reincarnation, which I doubt was a 5 second fix. Certainly we will get one or 2 patches before update 2 with hopefully updates togreater re eincarnation to allow the level changes we have asked for, and Turbine has indicated they are working on.

Then with update 2 we will get another round of quests and another non quest item, my guess it will be the rounding out of the pr'e's.
But think about this closely we are talking about updates every 3 months, something we haven't seen in 2 years.

Well, that didn't work out. Do I hear Update 3? Anyone?

Reisz
12-07-2009, 04:01 PM
Option 1. New content in mid December and new PrE's in <insert month>
Option 2. New content and new PrE's in <insert month>

Give me what you have now and the rest when it is done.

Thank you Turbine for choosing option 1!