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Ce'Nedra
10-19-2009, 02:50 PM
I tried DDO back in 2006 made it to maybe level 9, played through most of the quests available to me at that level, but don't remember most of it. Thought I would give DDO another try recently. Me and several friends all got VIP and rolled characters on Cannith a "new" server.

We have had alot of fun exploring quests, doing optionals just enjoying the content available for our level. Sometimes we join lfm and try to bring in extra players to fill our group with mixed success. My main complaint is the Ol'timer veteran players who rush thru everything want to skip everything. Give a bad attitude when the group is not going at the pace they want skipping what they want and zerging everything with haste up.

If this is your prefered style of play fine. FInd a guild of like minded people and run with them. Stop giving newer players grief because we dont want to move at your pace. Alot of us "newbs" are veterans of other MMOs and can match that sort of pace if we want to we just don't....

One group last night for Hidden In Plain Sight, 3 of us 3 from the looking for more. Five mins into the quest our trusty FvS pug guy "Pinky" asked "have you run this before"? We answer No and he drops group. We ran back to the enterence summoned a rent-a-healer, and finished the quest 29 mins 0 deaths. This was by far one of the more pleasant encounters we've had with these types of players. We've had people leave 1/2 way thru quest lines because we were doing optionals, called all sorts of names. One guy started whispering random group members talking smack and trying to ninja people from our group so he could reform lawls.

Anyway I just wanted to say to all the UberLeetzor***powerzergers on Cannith, If you've been playing DDO for years and you want to continue to do so, cultivate new friendships, try to remember what the game was like when you first started back when you enjoyed it. Try and remember most of the ppl playing are from other MMOs and are far from "newbs" and are perfectly capable of finishing content without you. If you want your game to survive you need more players and new memberships. Me and many others like me are not going to stick around if all of my end game groups are going to be full of people like you. Sorry for the wall of text, Cannith but i dont think I'm alone here I hear alot of complaining about Ol' Timers from newer players... If you didnt want to play with new players why the hell did you re-roll on a new server =D

KoboldKiller
10-19-2009, 02:55 PM
The only thing I would suggest is putting "new players-slow pace" in your LFM's. That should attract the people you are looking for.

Impaqt
10-19-2009, 02:59 PM
If this is your prefered style of play fine. FInd a guild of like minded people and run with them. Stop giving newer players grief because we dont want to move at your pace. Alot of us "newbs" are veterans of other MMOs and can match that sort of pace if we want to we just don't....


Curious. And Im not advocating their behavior....

Why should they "Find a guild of like minded people to run with" and you should Pug?

Why not the other way around?

Why not everyone just go play with their own types?

I just see so many posts saying "THe Zergers should go play with their zerger buddies" and "The Newbs should play with newbs"

I dont understand why one form of play should have precedence over the other. IF you believe they are ruining your gameplay, Mostly like they are thinking the exact same thing about your exploration playstyle.

Ce'Nedra
10-19-2009, 04:17 PM
In general the pace is set by the leader of the group. I don't join a group LFM, and then moan, complain, treat others like **** and behave like a 12 yr old meth addict with ADD when the pace isnt to my liking. Unlike alot of long time players i've grouped with. I like the previous posters suggestion of adding -slower pace- to my groups looking for more. I don't feel however that we do move at that slow of a pace. Most quests are done in less then 1/2 hour even "long" or "very long" ones. It seems alot of people are expecting a 5 min run thru a dungeon skipping everything that can be skipped with haste contantly up. Maybe by the time ive run every quest 100 times on 20 differnt alts i'll feel like zerg'n thru something but most likely i'll quit and find some new quests to explore on a different game long before i spend that much time here.

KoboldKiller
10-19-2009, 04:22 PM
In general the pace is set by the leader of the group. I don't join a group LFM, and then moan, complain, treat others like **** and behave like a 12 yr old meth addict with ADD when the pace isnt to my liking. Unlike alot of long time players i've grouped with. I like the previous posters suggestion of adding -slower pace- to my groups looking for more. I don't feel however that we do move at that slow of a pace. Most quests are done in less then 1/2 hour even "long" or "very long" ones. It seems alot of people are expecting a 5 min run thru a dungeon skipping everything that can be skipped with haste contantly up. Maybe by the time ive run every quest 100 times on 20 differnt alts i'll feel like zerg'n thru something but most likely i'll quit and find some new quests to explore on a different game long before i spend that much time here.

I felt the same way once but this game is addicting for me and I roll new alts constantly. I however have a tendency to solo a lot of the lower stuff because I don't want to be "that guy" in a group of new people. That's not to say I have not taken time to run with new players and show them quests but if I'm in a "zerg" mood I don't PUG.

Impaqt
10-19-2009, 04:23 PM
In general the pace is set by the leader of the group. I don't join a group LFM, and then moan, complain, treat others like **** and behave like a 12 yr old meth addict with ADD when the pace isnt to my liking. Unlike alot of long time players i've grouped with. I like the previous posters suggestion of adding -slower pace- to my groups looking for more. I don't feel however that we do move at that slow of a pace. Most quests are done in less then 1/2 hour even "long" or "very long" ones. It seems alot of people are expecting a 5 min run thru a dungeon skipping everything that can be skipped with haste contantly up. Maybe by the time ive run every quest 100 times on 20 differnt alts i'll feel like zerg'n thru something but most likely i'll quit and find some new quests to explore on a different game long before i spend that much time here.

Actually, the Pace is set by the faster person in the group. Especailly when it comes to Zergers. The star isnt even a consideration. It means nothing when everyone knows exactly what they have to do anyway.

Ce'Nedra
10-19-2009, 05:09 PM
I'm not saying there is a wrong or right way to play the game. IMHO there is a right and a wrong way to treat other players and groups. Don't expect every group LFM on Cannith is going to be made up of vets looking to run at your pace. In our groups people who zerg ahead of us dont set our pace. They end up dead and ****ed but don't worry we will pick up your stone and run you to the closest shrine when we catch up =)

Impaqt
10-19-2009, 05:14 PM
I'm not saying there is a wrong or right way to play the game. IMHO there is a right and a wrong way to treat other players and groups. Don't expect every group LFM on Cannith is going to be made up of vets looking to run at your pace. In our groups people who zerg ahead of us dont set our pace. They end up dead and ****ed but don't worry we will pick up your stone and run you to the closest shrine when we catch up =)


Well, theres your problem..

Leave em Dead. and if they recall out, Boot em....

KoboldKiller
10-19-2009, 05:21 PM
Well, theres your problem..

Leave em Dead. and if they recall out, Boot em....

Excellent point.

speedyjr
10-20-2009, 12:25 AM
Howdy,

We've moved over from Thelanis (really Xoriat). We're a small guild that likes to run stuff all the way including optionals most of the time. We are veterans, most from original launch and would enjoy grouping with you and seeing where it goes.

We moved over here for a fresh start. Its nice to start over again without the easy button and remember what this game is all about.

Aerendil
10-20-2009, 08:11 AM
*the following post is based on MY experiences with DDO. Your mileage may vary*

Just a heads up to the OP or anyone else fairly new to DDO - if you've played any other MMO, you'll find that DDO's grouping is MUCH different than your typical MMO's grouping experience. And the main reason for this, I believe, is it's quest-based system.

For example, in many other MMOs, you form your group, you wander off to some remote area or fight your way down in a dungeon, and then proceed to lay waste to that area for the next X minutes/hours raking in crazy xp. You work together as a team, you chat, you get to know everyone, etc. And if you need to leave, you usually give a heads up on your estimated departure time, and possibly even fill your spot for the group as a courtesy thing, and sometimes even wait around for that person to arrive before you leave. There are certain rules of behaviour to be followed in these games.

Not so in DDO. Well, at least not in pickup groups - guilds are a completely different matter which is more similar to your typical MMO social environment where you chat, treat eachother well (at least I hope), joke, and work as a team.
But in your typical DDO pickup group (aka "PUG"), most people are there for purely selfish reasons. It's not a slight on the gamers at all, mind you - it's simply how the game is set up. You team up with others to assist in completing a quest, and you then tackle the quest. If you fail, you get no xp and sometimes even no loot. Hence, DDO instantly instills in you a sort of elitism where players unfamiliar with a quest can mean a waste of time on your behalf. Then, when the quest is finished, you simply move on to another quest/group that is forming. There is little to no loyalty to one particular group, and in some cases, very little civility or courtesy either. They'll simply drop group once the quest is done, or even mid-way through a quest if they feel it's a lost cause.

Mind you, not everyone is like this. Most do at least give a courteous "thank you for the group, take care!", or if they need to leave early may give a reason for it (whether or not it's true or sincere is another case entirely :p). But, again, it's mostly a result of the way DDO is designed on a quest-based system.

Now, I mentioned earlier that guilds are quite different, and in my experience, they are. They're more like other MMO social environments from what I've experienced, and you do tend to get a certain comraderie in them.

But yeah, just a heads up that you very rarely get that feeling in pickup groups. Hence why some people will simply drop group without a word and either go solo or find xp elsewhere. It's just the nature of PUGs, and something to be very aware of when joining them.

*edit* - one final note worth mentioning. There are some gamers who will, upon hearing that you're new to a quest, drop group and run like hell. But there are others who will see this as a chance to show you the ropes, knowing it will take longer to run the quest than normal, but thoroughly enjoy showing you where to go. So they're not all selfish jerks, trust me :)
And, to be honest, most players do realize that the majority of quests are a 1-time "show you the ropes" scenerio. After you've run it once, unless there are a lot of puzzles or steps to be done, you probably have a good idea of what's required and will be able to lead your own groups from that point on. If you can, find yourself a guild - I find players are more willing to help you in a guild where, as mentioned above, there is a certain leniancy towards newer gamers and/or more courtesy; PUGs offer little to none of this at times.

geoffhanna
10-20-2009, 08:29 AM
In general the pace is set by the leader of the group. I don't join a group LFM, and then moan, complain, treat others like **** and behave like a 12 yr old meth addict with ADD when the pace isnt to my liking. Unlike alot of long time players i've grouped with. I like the previous posters suggestion of adding -slower pace- to my groups looking for more. I don't feel however that we do move at that slow of a pace. Most quests are done in less then 1/2 hour even "long" or "very long" ones. It seems alot of people are expecting a 5 min run thru a dungeon skipping everything that can be skipped with haste contantly up. Maybe by the time ive run every quest 100 times on 20 differnt alts i'll feel like zerg'n thru something but most likely i'll quit and find some new quests to explore on a different game long before i spend that much time here.

p.s. Welcome to the game!

treehugger20
10-21-2009, 10:35 AM
ive run into this a ton myself...

if your not running at full speed you get told constantly to hurry up, or where is XXX.. Im looking around and enjoying myself..which has led to me soloing a ton especially my frst time in a quest soo i can enjoy it throughly first.


Ive started making my own groups adding comments.. unfortunatly many join and just ingore the comments and want to run things their own way which is rather annoying. WHy are people joining a take it slow, first time Roll play group in the hills,, and saying Hey lets go zerg WW on elite.. Its beyond me and a bit rude if ya ask me. Dont wanna play that style, please dont join the group. Sometimes i join a group looking to speed through something or just get favor, and thats fine, if thats what i wanna do at that time. But surely thats not how i want all my groups and i try to make my own to do what i wanna do and hope like minded people will join me at those times.

anyways, if you wanna look me up send Kreeal a tell, Or just post here with a play time and a few names and ill look out for ya. I have no problems wanting to take my time and enjoy the game.

GeneralDiomedes
10-21-2009, 10:45 AM
Heh. This was a problem even after a few months of the game coming out. 3 years of repeating quests haven't made it any better ;)

But really, it's your own fault for taking random LFMs without stipulating what the parameters of your group are.

Gleipner
10-21-2009, 01:55 PM
Seriously, you specify in your lfm what you are looking for.
Sometimes (AND THIS SEEM TO BE HAPPENING ALOT) people don´t read what the lfm says. For example lfm reads: GH/walkups elite (p2p/have a clue please) IP, Now if you don´t understand that the grp with 3-4 people running it prolly are experianced in some way and you join and starts asking where to go etc etc you better be ready to get booted, i would never join a grp that said slow/newbs/dungeon crawling/taking our time/no rushers/no zergers bc i know how to read, however if nothing is indicated and i ask the leader if it´s ok if i run off i expect noone to complain about my rushing.

UnderwearModel
10-21-2009, 10:31 PM
People do not read the LFM.

They just click if they need the quest. HIPS being one people need for Restless Isles.

To the OP, sorry it happened to you. Not all vets are like that.

If I ever get a chance to run with you, just say you have not run the quest before and I gladly show everyone everything in a quest. I might not remember some of the finer points of some optionals but I do not mind showing new players everything in a quest.

I remember that I was once new to the game and I wanted to experience the whole thing. WHich has led to me soloing as much as I can so I can learn the quests.

Tonight, some new players wanted to do gianthold and asked me to join. We did as much as we could, I probably TALKED way too much. It was an excellent group of players. Maybe three new to the game players maybe four, and two vets.

The new to the game players kept opening the quests up on elite even though they had not done them yet. So I would blather on about traps and what monsters to be ready for. I have done Foundation of Discord with all vets where we party wiped but with this group I was the one that died when I hit a gong. I then told them what to do and they rocked it.

I did tell them to make sure they do not DIE in the bottom with Patrick the Maniac.

I enjoyed it. I hope they did to.

Sylvurdragon
10-22-2009, 04:57 PM
I'm not saying there is a wrong or right way to play the game. IMHO there is a right and a wrong way to treat other players and groups. Don't expect every group LFM on Cannith is going to be made up of vets looking to run at your pace. In our groups people who zerg ahead of us dont set our pace. They end up dead and ****ed but don't worry we will pick up your stone and run you to the closest shrine when we catch up =)

You know? I'm right there with you. I decided to go with a PUG group on my first run of STK...(forgot to mention the whole being new thing) and half of the quest was me going "ok where are you, i can't find you now"...completely ruined the experience that time around. Luckily I later found a great guild and went at it again with some guildies and had a great time. I've kind of adopted this thing though...I'm a rogue...If everyone in the party chooses to rush ahead of me thats fine...but don't come crying to me when the fire trap that you forgot about kills you. /rant off. :-D

Aryndarr
10-23-2009, 10:59 PM
I'm not saying there is a wrong or right way to play the game. IMHO there is a right and a wrong way to treat other players and groups. Don't expect every group LFM on Cannith is going to be made up of vets looking to run at your pace. In our groups people who zerg ahead of us dont set our pace. They end up dead and ****ed but don't worry we will pick up your stone and run you to the closest shrine when we catch up =)

It seems to me what Ce'Nedra is getting at is more the idea of mutual respect among players, rather than attempting to suggest ppl play one way or another.

When it comes to play style, to each his own I would think no? As long as that doesn't include rude or disrespectful behavior. Unfortunatly, it seems hoping for manners among the masses is about as realistic as free money in your mailbox. Especially on tEh inTerwebz where faceless 13 year olds (no disrespect to all you decent 13 year olds, we were all kids once) talk smack like truckers with no fear of ever having to deal with the victims of their verbal abuse face to face. Ahh internet courage.

Perhaps it'll just take a few weeks/months of /squelching the worst offenders and working on a reliable friends list. Because with the sheer number and variety of ppl playing these games, we'll always have the uBerLeWtspeAKinGAmzorz to deal with. Good luck with it though, for the both of us.

Quikster
10-24-2009, 11:50 AM
I tried DDO back in 2006 made it to maybe level 9, played through most of the quests available to me at that level, but don't remember most of it. Thought I would give DDO another try recently. Me and several friends all got VIP and rolled characters on Cannith a "new" server.

We have had alot of fun exploring quests, doing optionals just enjoying the content available for our level. Sometimes we join lfm and try to bring in extra players to fill our group with mixed success. My main complaint is the Ol'timer veteran players who rush thru everything want to skip everything. Give a bad attitude when the group is not going at the pace they want skipping what they want and zerging everything with haste up.

If this is your prefered style of play fine. FInd a guild of like minded people and run with them. Stop giving newer players grief because we dont want to move at your pace. Alot of us "newbs" are veterans of other MMOs and can match that sort of pace if we want to we just don't....

One group last night for Hidden In Plain Sight, 3 of us 3 from the looking for more. Five mins into the quest our trusty FvS pug guy "Pinky" asked "have you run this before"? We answer No and he drops group. We ran back to the enterence summoned a rent-a-healer, and finished the quest 29 mins 0 deaths. This was by far one of the more pleasant encounters we've had with these types of players. We've had people leave 1/2 way thru quest lines because we were doing optionals, called all sorts of names. One guy started whispering random group members talking smack and trying to ninja people from our group so he could reform lawls.

Anyway I just wanted to say to all the UberLeetzor***powerzergers on Cannith, If you've been playing DDO for years and you want to continue to do so, cultivate new friendships, try to remember what the game was like when you first started back when you enjoyed it. Try and remember most of the ppl playing are from other MMOs and are far from "newbs" and are perfectly capable of finishing content without you. If you want your game to survive you need more players and new memberships. Me and many others like me are not going to stick around if all of my end game groups are going to be full of people like you. Sorry for the wall of text, Cannith but i dont think I'm alone here I hear alot of complaining about Ol' Timers from newer players... If you didnt want to play with new players why the hell did you re-roll on a new server =D

Sounds more like an a-hole problem then a vet problem. There might be lots of peeps not hitting your lfm when it says "slow" because they dont want to run that way.

Cedwin
10-24-2009, 11:56 AM
So people who have been playing this game for 3 or more years now, who have multiple level 20 alts, are rolling new characters on Cannith and don't want to help new players? Are they racing to see who can be the first to level 20 on that server? Is it some sort of status thing? "Look at me, I'm the first level 20, bow down to my uberness!"

Yeah, I guess I just don't get it.

Nestorious
10-24-2009, 01:45 PM
Actually C, ya dont.

Power Gamers are just that, its not a "status" thing - at least not for most - but a mindset really. Those people put in the time and pretty heavy thought on "most" toons, I've seen friends try builds that made me even smirk and ask em when they last slept (grin). They take great pride in what they accomplish in thier designs as well though. These people also run with a pretty small group as they level toons and find who they are compatible with. If they just see something that not focused on the game, they will either take the time to help or move on. They arent looking for you to bow down, but not to give a rash of **** for how they roll either. The size of the playerbase demands that you will encounter people that just dont mesh. Not trying to be harsh man, but cant we all just do our own thing? I think thats been brought up a few times already - but the thread continues...

Bunker
10-24-2009, 02:12 PM
I read the OP, kind of skimmed through the replies but simply because this is not the first, nor will be the last, post on this subject. Here it is in black and white.

What you need to realize and take note of is that these "power-gamer / zergers" are just like you. I bet you like running quests, taking your time, finding everything, breaking all the boxes. Why do you do all of that? Answer: Because it is FUN!

Well guess what, the power-gamers / zergers go thru quests fast, would rather run with others that want to go fast. Why do they do all that? Answer: Because it is FUN!

Remember, it is nothing personal, and whether you think it is rude or not how a lot of players like to run through quest quickly, the only difference between you and them is they don't come running to the forums to complain on how slow, under-equiped, un-knowledgable you might be. (i'm not sayingyou are, just making a point)

They play thier way, you play your way. Plenty of room in Stormreach for everyone.