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View Full Version : Undo changes to Draconic Necklace?



pjw
10-18-2009, 05:16 PM
The Draconic Necklace on live servers is now EXCLUSIVE. This brings it into line with the other clickies, except that it is still 1/shrine.

Any chance that this item could either (a) have the exclusive flag removed, or (b) become 3/shrine?

sephiroth1084
10-18-2009, 05:23 PM
The Draconic Necklace on live servers is now EXCLUSIVE. This brings it into line with the other clickies, except that it is still 1/shrine.

Any chance that this item could either (a) have the exclusive flag removed, or (b) become 3/shrine?

Seriously, this ML 18 item should be more worthwhile as a clicky than the Planar Gird.

Korvek
10-18-2009, 05:35 PM
Seriously, this ML 18 item should be more worthwhile as a clicky than the Planar Gird.

Maybe it's designed to be something more than just a clicky.

/Shrug

Absolute-Omniscience
10-18-2009, 05:35 PM
Good change.

bobbryan2
10-18-2009, 05:50 PM
Maybe it's designed to be something more than just a clicky.

/Shrug

Oh.. in that case it's a complete failure. :)

Absolute-Omniscience
10-18-2009, 05:54 PM
Oh.. in that case it's a complete failure. :)

No ****, 90% of the sets are a complete failiure. :D

IMO

Good
Shintao
FB
Kotc
DoS
Defender

Decent
Tempest
Kensai
Ravager
Archmage (for +0,25 crit power, good if you have greater arcane lore)
Warchanter (-4 maximize cost, good for clerics / fs combined with necklace for sup potency VI)

bobbryan2
10-18-2009, 05:56 PM
No ****, 90% of the sets are a complete failiure. :D

IMO

Good
Shintao
FB
Kotc

Decent
Tempest
Kensai
Ravager
Archmage (for +0,25 crit power, good if you have greater arcane lore)
Warchanter (-4 maximize cost, good for clerics / fs combined with necklace for sup potency VI)

Except that Dragon 'was' in the good category. But I guess it's moved from good to kinda ok.

Is that the definition of a good change?

totmacher
10-18-2009, 06:36 PM
it's balanced: it's 1/day and as an exclusive clickie makes it so new players to the game aren't constrained to the overhead of finding a planar gird. you can still have multiple girds if you want successive greater heros, which will be priced in the market. it's a good thing for the game.

in conclusion, i think you're selfishly asking for something for nothing.

Junts
10-18-2009, 07:14 PM
You forgot the +2 stacking ac bonus on the stalwart and siberys sets; those are quite worthwhile as well.

Angelus_dead
10-18-2009, 07:22 PM
it's balanced: it's 1/day and as an exclusive clickie makes it so new players to the game aren't constrained to the overhead of finding a planar gird. you can still have multiple girds
Balance between items of level 8 and 18 is actually not desirable.

Freeman
10-18-2009, 07:28 PM
Balance between items of level 8 and 18 is actually not desirable.

Unfortunately, they "balanced" quest XP along the same lines, so this wouldn't surprise me. Or did they not intend for some level 8 quests to give more XP than some level 18-20 quests?

Angelus_dead
10-18-2009, 07:33 PM
Unfortunately, they "balanced" quest XP along the same lines, so this wouldn't surprise me.
They did not.


Or did they not intend for some level 8 quests to give more XP than some level 18-20 quests?
That does not indicate what you claim. Simply being higher level does not necessarily mean more XP is deserved; for example, there's a level 19 quest that's ten times shorter than a level 8 quest.

Freeman
10-18-2009, 07:48 PM
They did not.

I seriously doubt they intended to do it, but unfortunately, the effect is the same regardless of their intentions.


That does not indicate what you claim. Simply being higher level does not necessarily mean more XP is deserved; for example, there's a level 19 quest that's ten times shorter than a level 8 quest.

The level does relate to how much XP is deserved. True, the length of the quest is a consideration, but that is not be the only variable. If a level 8 quest is the same length and difficulty(For an appropriate level group) as a level 18 quest, the level 18 quest should still give out much more XP than the level 8 quest. A shorter, less difficult level 18 quest should still often give out more XP than a level 8 quest, unless the differences become quite large.

In other words, I shouldn't run a level 8 character through Delera's and find myself remarking that the experience rewards are better than many of the level 18 quests I run, particularly when you take into account the relative difficulty of the quests.

pjw
10-18-2009, 07:48 PM
in conclusion, i think you're selfishly asking for something for nothing.

Actually, value judgements and abuse aside, I am just asking for something that SOME players already have to be made available to all players again. I am also asking for a ML18 bound item to be superior to an ML11 item.

Junts
10-18-2009, 07:54 PM
I seriously doubt they intended to do it, but unfortunately, the effect is the same regardless of their intentions.



The level does relate to how much XP is deserved. True, the length of the quest is a consideration, but that is not be the only variable. If a level 8 quest is the same length and difficulty(For an appropriate level group) as a level 18 quest, the level 18 quest should still give out much more XP than the level 8 quest. A shorter, less difficult level 18 quest should still often give out more XP than a level 8 quest, unless the differences become quite large.

In other words, I shouldn't run a level 8 character through Delera's and find myself remarking that the experience rewards are better than many of the level 18 quests I run, particularly when you take into account the relative difficulty of the quests.

I'll give you this much and this much only:

the exp reward for bastion of power should be doubled

The others are proportional to their difficulty; they're easy ass quests.

bobbryan2
10-18-2009, 08:30 PM
I'll give you this much and this much only:

the exp reward for bastion of power should be doubled

The others are proportional to their difficulty; they're easy ass quests.

Monastery is still worth like 20k for a first time bonus. That's an easy ass quests.

The Amrath ones are definitely harder than the Reaver's Refuge quests in my opinion (with the obvious exceptions of Shipment and Wrath)

pjw
10-18-2009, 11:07 PM
Any chance that this item could either (a) have the exclusive flag removed, or (b) become 3/shrine?

OK...I got negative rep for this...is there any way I can see who gave it to me? Or positive for that matter?

Arnya
10-18-2009, 11:31 PM
OK...I got negative rep for this...is there any way I can see who gave it to me? Or positive for that matter?

No, but you can make an educated guess based on the comments on this thread.

Look at the green bars - it takes more than the 6 I have to give neg rep - 1500 rep I have been told....

If you got more than one neg rep, then someone other than the someone I guessed is also neg repping ya :)

FluffyCalico
10-18-2009, 11:35 PM
OK...I got negative rep for this...is there any way I can see who gave it to me? Or positive for that matter?

Since Borror0 has made it clear he will neg anyone who complains about neg rep I am pretty sure when he sees this you will have some more comming :eek:

pjw
10-18-2009, 11:45 PM
Since Borror0 has made it clear he will neg anyone who complains about neg rep I am pretty sure when he sees this you will have some more comming :eek:

lol...oh no.

Just to make it clear, I was not complaining, just asking how I could tell who did it. Now I know, and can now feel comfortable in ignoring it, given the likely source.

Jonny_D
10-19-2009, 04:49 AM
it's balanced: it's 1/day and as an exclusive clickie makes it so new players to the game aren't constrained to the overhead of finding a planar gird.


great, another greater heroism clicky I will never loot:D
One was left in a ToD chest tonight because of an accidental mistransfer to someone already through the portal... LOL

pjw
10-19-2009, 05:00 AM
great, another greater heroism clicky I will never loot

Don't worry, it's way less useful than a gird in the long term.

FluffyCalico
10-19-2009, 05:01 AM
great, another greater heroism clicky I will never loot:D
One was left in a ToD chest tonight because of an accidental mistransfer to someone already through the portal... LOL

Usually 1-2 drop every TOD run and since you can only have 1...

You will have one in no time.

Absolute-Omniscience
10-19-2009, 05:46 AM
Except that Dragon 'was' in the good category. But I guess it's moved from good to kinda ok.

Is that the definition of a good change?

The Dragon one wasn't in the good catagory, it was useful, but the item itself was completely worthless, just like the Radiant Servant one, etc, etc.

A level 18 item, in a raid item combo that is only used for a GH clicky is a very poorly designed item, and hence making it match the other items by making it exclusive and more balanced in the clicky aspect is a good change.

It's uncommon to use ONE GH clicky while questing, even less so 2+.
Hell, I wouldn't mind if they changed planar to exclusive.

PS: As noted above I forgot about the DoS and Defender set (added to the ''good'' list)

pjw
10-19-2009, 05:56 AM
The Dragon one wasn't in the good catagory


So you think it was not a good item before the change...


A level 18 item, in a raid item combo that is only used for a GH clicky is a very poorly designed item


...and that it's only redeeming feature was the GH clicky...


and hence making it match the other items by making it exclusive and more balanced in the clicky aspect is a good change.


And completely lose the plot here. All the other clickys are 3/shrine.

Secondly, because most of the rest of the sets are useless does not in any way justify making yet another item useless.

Thirdly, if you really believe that non-exclusive items are so unbalanced, let's make them all exclusive retrospectively and see how popular the change is. I could live with that; at least it would be equally balanced and consistent.


It's uncommon to use ONE GH clicky while questing, even less so 2+.

Not for me. I often end up using 2 girds; at least to buff party members.

Absolute-Omniscience
10-19-2009, 06:15 AM
So you think it was not a good item before the change...

1 of them, no. Multiple of them, yes. You fail to see what's underpowered and overpowered with it.



...and that it's only redeeming feature was the GH clicky...

The fact that you need anything to get that gh clicky and that it drops like flies, makes it highly overpowered and unbalanced. But the fact that the set bonuses that it was designed for are completely useless and nowhere near upto par with Shintao makes it underpowered.



And completely lose the plot here. All the other clickys are 3/shrine.

And last 1-3 minutes, gh lasts 11. Point remains.



Secondly, because most of the rest of the sets are useless does not in any way justify making yet another item useless. Once again, making it exlusive and removing the overpowerness of multiple draconic necklaces doesn't change the usefulness /uselesness of having one.



Thirdly, if you really believe that non-exclusive items are so unbalanced, let's make them all exclusive retrospectively and see how popular the change is. I could live with that; at least it would be equally balanced and consistent.
I don't. I just think that items that has a 30% drop rate and gives an amazing clicky should be exclusive.




Not for me. I often end up using 2 girds; at least to buff party members.

Fair enough, though then 1 draconic and 1 planar wouldn't be so bad...

kaelis
10-19-2009, 11:06 AM
And last 1-3 minutes, gh lasts 11. Point remains.



Haven't used the clickies much have you? Their all 18 minutes. (the spells not the near useless spell casting ones)
Jump, Invis, GH etc.. 18 minutes.

Anyways the change really means little, its been exclusive for quite some time has it not, and if it hasn't pop one and carry girds if you need more. I am collecting 1 per toon, to allow me to twink my lower/newer toons with girds.

gfunk
10-19-2009, 11:24 AM
I think that the Draconic necklace is superior to the gird, simply because it is so easy to get. Pike along on a few tower runs and you have a pretty high chance of someone passing one to you (no grinding neccesary!). For a planer gird ya might have had to run 50 Xorian's to pull one (of course, they are now quite cheap on the AH). Personally I'm totally fine with it as being exclusive, as I consider it a bit of a freebie anyways.

Jonny_D
10-19-2009, 11:26 AM
Don't worry, it's way less useful than a gird in the long term.


Usually 1-2 drop every TOD run and since you can only have 1...

You will have one in no time.

its a long running joke involving my characters, and their lack of ability to pull planar girds... my own personal Wi - flag. I dont need one urgently, it just would allow me to send 1 gird to another toon like Kaelis is doing.

Planar Gird has been one of the most useful powerful soloing items since it first appeared, Turbine would probably change it to exclusive, but they know it would start a riot.

Jonny_D
10-19-2009, 11:27 AM
I think that the Draconic necklace is superior to the gird, simply because it is so easy to get. Pike along on a few tower runs and you have a pretty high chance of someone passing one to you (no grinding neccesary!). For a planer gird ya might have had to run 500 Xorian's to pull one (of course, they are now quite cheap on the AH). Personally I'm totally fine with it as being exclusive, as I consider it a bit of a freebie anyways.
fixed in red ;):D

Stanley_Nicholas
10-19-2009, 11:54 AM
They made it exclusive with a high drop rate to throw a bone to the casual and unlucky players without planar girds. This way power gamers can't hoard several of them per character, making it much easier for everybody to get one.

And it's obviously superior to a planar gird on a per-item basis. The GH clicky lasts 18 minutes instead of 11 and it has +6 con on it, so for some people it can become a full time necklace instead of something that is just swapped in for the clicky and then swapped back out.

If you really want to hoard multiple GH clickies then you can still hoard girds. Draconic Necklace is simply meant to help out casual players without girds more than the hardcore, at least until the associated PrE is released. Personally I don't see the problem here.

Absolute-Omniscience
10-19-2009, 12:04 PM
Haven't used the clickies much have you? Their all 18 minutes. (the spells not the near useless spell casting ones)
Jump, Invis, GH etc.. 18 minutes.


Ah, right forgot about the jump / invisibiltiy one. (level 2 and 1 spells. :rolleyes:). Oh and the GH one is 11 minutes, at least on the EU servers.

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/7682/screenshot00481.th.jpg (http://img40.imageshack.us/i/screenshot00481.jpg/)

Uska
10-19-2009, 12:07 PM
Hmm dont care either way about the change but dont think you deserved a ding for your post.

Uska
10-19-2009, 12:08 PM
No, but you can make an educated guess based on the comments on this thread.

Look at the green bars - it takes more than the 6 I have to give neg rep - 1500 rep I have been told....

If you got more than one neg rep, then someone other than the someone I guessed is also neg repping ya :)

it takes 9 or more bars I have 8 for now and cant do it.

ahpook
10-19-2009, 01:06 PM
Haven't used the clickies much have you? Their all 18 minutes. (the spells not the near useless spell casting ones)
Jump, Invis, GH etc.. 18 minutes.


I guess you haven't.

Invisibility CL15 (15 minutes)
Jump CL15 (15 minutes)
Greater Heroism CL 11 (11 minutes)

At the very least they should boost the GH one up to CL 15 so it is slightly superior to the Planar Gird which is CL 11. Better yet, move them all to CL 18.

pjw
10-19-2009, 06:49 PM
1 of them, no. Multiple of them, yes. You fail to see what's underpowered and overpowered with it.


There could be a reason for that: perhaps there is *nothing* overpowered with it. You fail to distinguish an items power from it's drop rate.

I do not agree that an ML18 GH clicky is overpowered. Planar Girds are ML11 and actually a better clicky than the original in that they are not BTC. Girds, per se, are NOT overpowered. So how can a BTC ML18 GH clicky be overpowered?

As to the underpowered stuff, it is completely irrelevant to the OP, but I think we agree the benefits of most of these sets fall short of ideal.



The fact that you need anything to get that gh clicky and that it drops like flies, makes it highly overpowered and unbalanced.


No, it does not. Drop rate has nothing to do with whether an item is over/under-powered. But it *might* mean the drop rate should decrease, as could be considered a reasonable conclusion from your stated facts (not that I would agree; I like the drop rate).



And last 1-3 minutes, gh lasts 11. Point remains.


Or last 15 minutes. Or are permanent (eg. +6 Con, GFL -- could have been an 11 min GFL clicky). And the ones that (mostly) last 3 mins are fine: most casters can not sustain 3 mins casting polar ray, and when they want to cast it, they tend to dump their mana. Also, these 3 minute, level 8 spell boosters have no ML11 equivalents for good reason -- they are *better* than the available equivalents.




Once again, making it exlusive and removing the overpowerness of multiple draconic necklaces doesn't change the usefulness /uselesness of having one.


The entire point of the original post was that making it 'exclusive' substantially changes the usefulness of having *more than one*. And the "overpowerness" (sic) of having multiple necklaces is no greater than the "overpowerness" of having multiple girds.


It seems to come down to (a) is the drop rate too high - is it really so bad having people able to do their own GH rather than relying on a caster and (b) is it overpowered as an item (ignoring drop rate).

I think:

- (a) drop rate: I have no real problem with it. L18 chars being able to GH themselves: no big deal. Most players who have looted Xorian already can do it multiple times. This just serves to reduce the inequalities between new and old players created by equipment (because most can have it at L18).
- (b) overpowered? No, it is not overpowered because a Gird is not overpowered and GH is not overpowered. In most parties, people will have GH from someone; this spell is more or less a staple of the game, like blur and (until recently) haste. Even ignoring the not inconsequential fact the GH is completely unnecessary in Amrath, everyone having the ability to GH themselves will break or unbalance ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

Removing the 'exclusive' flag (or making the necklace 3/shrine) will just relegate Girds to the status of mid-level twink gear; something which would IMO be a good result.



I don't. I just think that items that has a 30% drop rate and gives an amazing clicky should be exclusive.


Again the confusion of drop rate with power.

Also, it is not and *never* was an 'amazing' clicky. At best it was a gird-replacer (ultimately it saved a few shared bank slots). Exclusive 3/shrine is a good clicky. BTA 3/shrine would be an amazing clicky. Get some perspective.



Fair enough, though then 1 draconic and 1 planar wouldn't be so bad...

This ignores the point: multiple girds ARE useful and ARE used, contrary to your stated opinion.

pjw
10-19-2009, 06:57 PM
They made it exclusive with a high drop rate to throw a bone to the casual and unlucky players without planar girds.

That is a fine reason; what they should have done at the same time is make it 3/shrine and CL15. Or permanent, like the GFL belt (that even fits with the nature of Amrath).

Absolute-Omniscience
10-19-2009, 07:21 PM
There could be a reason for that: perhaps there is *nothing* overpowered with it. You fail to distinguish an items power from it's drop rate.



I do not agree that an ML18 GH clicky is overpowered. Planar Girds are ML11 and actually a better clicky than the original in that they are not BTC. Girds, per se, are NOT overpowered. So how can a BTC ML18 GH clicky be overpowered?

As to the underpowered stuff, it is completely irrelevant to the OP, but I think we agree the benefits of most of these sets fall short of ideal.

You fail to understand that the drop rate has a direct effect on how good an item can / should be. Lets face it, the Devs are with me on this one.



No, it does not. Drop rate has nothing to do with whether an item is over/under-powered. But it *might* mean the drop rate should decrease, as could be considered a reasonable conclusion from your stated facts (not that I would agree; I like the drop rate).

Decreasing the drop rates defeats the current purpose of these items, but something has to be done as the drop rate combined with the usefulness of this item IS overpowered*

*That is what I meant when I said that it's overpowered, I thought everyone would understand that.



Or last 15 minutes. Or are permanent (eg. +6 Con, GFL -- could have been an 11 min GFL clicky). And the ones that (mostly) last 3 mins are fine: most casters can not sustain 3 mins casting polar ray, and when they want to cast it, they tend to dump their mana. Also, these 3 minute, level 8 spell boosters have no ML11 equivalents for good reason -- they are *better* than the available equivalents.

So you're saying that it should give "supreme heroism" for +6 to hit, etc?

Take the assassin belt for one, it gives +6 con, assassin, and proof against poison. Now if you think of it as only a "proof of poison belt" just like you are here with this necklace, you'll come to the conclusion that it's damn underpowered for a level 18 item. But if you count in the set bonus and the +6 con, it's a quite decent item. Samething with the Draconic necklace, only that the set bonus sucks and needs to be boosted, which it will with the pre.

Making the assassin belt exclusive wouldn't make you go all out screaming that it's totally worthless, now would it?



This ignores the point: multiple girds ARE useful and ARE used, contrary to your stated opinion.

Yes, multiple are used, and useful (to a odd persons), but my opinion was that it would not be the end of the world if you were limited to 2 GH clickies. Or as it is now, 1 draconic and infinate planars.

pjw
10-19-2009, 08:56 PM
[b]the drop rate combined with the usefulness of this item IS overpowered*

Disagree as per one of the several parts of my post you did not address. It is NOT overpowered.



So you're saying that it should give "supreme heroism" for +6 to hit, etc?


So, we've gone from appealing to a higher power "the devs agree with me" (without any supporting link), ignoring chunks of my last post, and now putting words in my mouth.

To quote myself:


what they should have done at the same time is make it 3/shrine and CL15. Or permanent, like the GFL belt (that even fits with the nature of Amrath).

I would never advocate a 'Superior Heroism' as you seem to suggest.



Take the assassin belt for one...


Again, you repeat the spurious "A is broken, so we should break B" argument. I don't care about the assassins belt; don't play a rogue, no idea if it's good or bad. But, a permanently acting 4th level spell is always nice, even if everyone probably already had immunity items from shroud.




Yes, multiple are used, and useful (to a odd persons), but my opinion...

And there we differ; imo an exclusive, 3/shrine, ML15 GH clicky would not break the game either.

sephiroth1084
10-19-2009, 11:46 PM
Drop rate has nothing to do with how powerful an item is--all the +6 Con/GFL belts drop with the same frequency as the Purple Dragon necklace in ToD. Dynastic Falcata doesn't drop very frequently, and is a piece of garbage. The Planar Gird drops incredibly rarely, and is not overpowered.

Giving everyone access to GH at level 11 (the same time that casters gain access to it) may be a bit strong, but giving players access to that same spell 7 levels later? What exactly is overpowered about that? Hell, at that level, most of what its doing is saving casters some SP, since there isn't a lot of soloing to be done.

The necklace should:
1) be changed to a CL 18 clicky, for longer duration and as a slight improvement from the Gird
2) be changed to 3 clickies of CL 11 GH, for more utility (keep it up on yourself longer, or buff your allies), and as a distinct improvement from the Gird
3) be changed back to being non-exclusive, allowing multiple copies to be stockpiled (taking up valuable inventory space), and making it basically slightly weaker than the Gird (ML 18 vs. ML 11).

FluffyCalico
10-19-2009, 11:49 PM
The necklace should:
1) be changed to a CL 18 clicky, for longer duration and as a slight improvement from the Gird
2) be changed to 3 clickies of CL 11 GH, for more utility (keep it up on yourself longer, or buff your allies), and as a distinct improvement from the Gird
3) be changed back to being non-exclusive, allowing multiple copies to be stockpiled (taking up valuable inventory space), and making it basically slightly weaker than the Gird (ML 18 vs. ML 11).

Why should we have every toon on the server with 12 clicks of 18 min GH? If they do that might as well remove the spell from the game and no caster in their right mind would have GH if you could farm a dozen clicks of it in less than a day.

pjw
10-19-2009, 11:55 PM
Why should we have every toon on the server with 12 clicks of 18 min GH? If they do that might as well remove the spell from the game and no caster in their right mind would have GH if you could farm a dozen clicks of it in less than a day.

Make it exclusive, 3/shrine then. But, honestly, why is that a problem? I dont carry PK and more. I don't carry MM often. I don't carry GH in Amrath. Would be nice not to have to carry GH.

FluffyCalico
10-19-2009, 11:59 PM
Make it exclusive, 3/shrine then. But, honestly, why is that a problem? I dont carry PK and more. I don't carry MM often. I don't carry GH in Amrath. Would be nice not to have to carry GH.

Honestly they should redo the necklace and make it 0 clicks of GH and instead give GH full time while worn. That way it benifits the charcter who is wearing it and not classes that just want a clicky. That would also make it more valuable to the PDK as they would have GH even infront of a beholder.

Trillea
10-20-2009, 12:01 AM
Honestly they should redo the necklace and make it 0 clicks of GH and instead give GH full time while worn. That way it benifits the charcter who is wearing it and not classes that just want a clicky. That would also make it more valuable to the PDK as they would have GH even infront of a beholder.

Only until they fix beholders.

sephiroth1084
10-20-2009, 12:05 AM
Why should we have every toon on the server with 12 clicks of 18 min GH? If they do that might as well remove the spell from the game and no caster in their right mind would have GH if you could farm a dozen clicks of it in less than a day.

Why not? A lot of buffs get diffused across multiple classes (resists, jump, tumble, protects...). It does nothing to impinge upon the role or power of wizards, sorcerers or bards, since if they are being brought along solely to cast GH, they might as well not be there. If anything, it makes the arcanes stronger as it frees up 35-45 HP per character in the party that can be used to do something more useful.

Besides, there's still THE PLANAR GIRD! Not everyone has it, sure, but its a level 11 item that does the exact same thing, but is not bound, and is not exclusive. It may be harder to acquire through questing, but it is also available for purchase, and at level 18, you earn gold so fast, that if there isn't anything else you desperately desire, you could pick up 1 or two on the AH.

The fact is, the item is, in the vast majority of instances, strictly worse than an ML 11 item--the set bonus can be achieved on better sets, the +6 Con is on those better sets, and the PrE doesn't exist yet, so there is really no reason whatsoever to wear the necklace over any other generic +6 Con necklace (ML 13) or item set piece.

FluffyCalico
10-20-2009, 12:10 AM
Besides, there's still THE PLANAR GIRD! Not everyone has it, sure, but its a level 11 item that does the exact same thing, but is not bound, and is not exclusive.

Why is it you can not understand rare and 1 click and expensive as hell on AH in no way is the same as 3 clicks per item 1/3 the inventory loss and farmable so easy its a joke?

sephiroth1084
10-20-2009, 12:10 AM
Honestly they should redo the necklace and make it 0 clicks of GH and instead give GH full time while worn. That way it benifits the charcter who is wearing it and not classes that just want a clicky. That would also make it more valuable to the PDK as they would have GH even infront of a beholder.

That would be a totally different issue, and would probably reduce the apparently uselessness of the item, though the points at which it would be useful would be few and far between, and, honestly, which would most people prefer when facing a beholder? +4 to saves, skills and attack, or Deathblock and 10 charges of negative energy absorption?

All the rest of the time, it would just do the same thing as the clicky--save a caster 35-45 SP, which then begs the question: Why not give it more charges, a longer duration, or make it non-exclusive? If you think it'd be okay as a permanent effect, then how is making it more available as a clicky more game-breaking?

sephiroth1084
10-20-2009, 12:14 AM
Why is it you can not understand rare and 1 click and expensive as hell on AH in no way is the same as 3 clicks per item 1/3 the inventory loss and farmable so easy its a joke?

Because there are 7 levels separating the two items, and because while the latter may be easily farmable (though getting a PUG past part II in the ToD is far from commonplace at this point), it is not able to be traded, auctioned, or shared amongst your other characters.

FluffyCalico
10-20-2009, 12:16 AM
II in the ToD is far from commonplace at this point), it is not able to be traded, auctioned, or shared amongst your other characters.

It drops in a quest...not just the raid...And it was not ment to be a clicky for all it was ment to be a set item for the PDK.

They need to make it 0 clicks of GH and instead give GH when worn. This would end this stupid discussion of how to change the item so it can better be abused for unintended purposes.

bobbryan2
10-20-2009, 12:18 AM
Because there are 7 levels separating the two items, and because while the latter may be easily farmable (though getting a PUG past part II in the ToD is far from commonplace at this point), it is not able to be traded, auctioned, or shared amongst your other characters.

9 levels actually. Planar gird is only min lvl 9, and gives you the spell 2 levels before wizards can even cast it.

sephiroth1084
10-20-2009, 12:26 AM
It drops in a quest...not just the raid...And it was not ment to be a clicky for all it was ment to be a set item for the PDK.
And in that goal, it has been a failure. The fact remains that PDK will not be out for at least another month, and more likely, close to half a year. Now, we can continue playing with this incredibly sub-par item, or it can get reverted to its previous state, which made it not suck quite so badly when being compared to an unbound, non-exclusive item with half the minimum level.


They need to make it 0 clicks of GH and instead give GH when worn. This would end this stupid discussion of how to change the item so it can better be abused for unintended purposes.
Like I stated above, that wouldn't make the item any better in most situations and for most characters.

What abuse? Characters have been running around with GH for a long while. Bobby even pointed out that characters have had the ability to run around with GH before GH becomes available to cast! At level 9, 11 minutes will usually carry you to the next shrine in just about any quest you're running, whereas at level 18, that isn't necessarily the case, especially in raids.

Hell, GH is obviously not seen as abusive, since they have given us two items with GH clickies on them, and even gave us 7 quests and an adventure area where we get it for free! And the scrolls are sold at vendors.

What unintended usage? They wanted to give everyone a GH clicky. They did. Then they made a change to the item that doesn't change this fact, but merely makes the item less useful than it had been. We can still go get a Planar Gird on our 18th level characters, use it, pass it down to our level 9 character, use it up to 18, swap for this, and sell the Gird for whatever on the AH.


9 levels actually. Planar gird is only min lvl 9, and gives you the spell 2 levels before wizards can even cast it.
I stand corrected. Gird 1, PDK 0!

Absolute-Omniscience
10-20-2009, 06:31 AM
So, we've gone from appealing to a higher power "the devs agree with me" (without any supporting link), ignoring chunks of my last post, and now putting words in my mouth.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2493728&postcount=1
Happy now?

I "ignored" chunks of your post because it was just a copy-pase rant of that it's not overpowered without you really thinking.


I quote what you left out in the quote


and when they want to cast it, they tend to dump their mana. Also, these 3 minute, level 8 spell boosters have no ML11 equivalents for good reason -- they are *better* than the available equivalents.


It's don't say it, but you indicate that you want something better than just GH on it, and only way to make it better would be increasing the efficiency of the clicky, no the amount of them. As then it still wouldn't really be any better than the level 9 equivalent.




Again, you repeat the spurious "A is broken, so we should break B" argument. I don't care about the assassins belt; don't play a rogue, no idea if it's good or bad. But, a permanently acting 4th level spell is always nice, even if everyone probably already had immunity items from shroud.

And you keep repeating, "Draconic necklace is broken, lets make it into a super clicky and use it just use as one".





And there we differ; imo an exclusive, 3/shrine, ML15 GH clicky would not break the game either.

It wouldn't break the game, but it would make it worse.

FluffyCalico's idea is really the best way to go with it. It would become a FAR better item.

Lets face it, the spellstoring ring clicky is FAR from overpowered, but it was DAMN overpowered back when you could have infinate of em, especially back then when ~1,5k sp was a lot. Now, imagine that ring with +30% drop rate. :rolleyes:

Or in this level senario, imagine bauble at 30% drop rate and non-exclusive.

pjw
10-20-2009, 06:44 AM
http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2493728&postcount=1
Happy now?


lol...thats a link to my own post. Dont quite see how it supports your assertion that the devs agree with you.

FluffyCalico
10-20-2009, 06:45 AM
lol...thats a link to my own post. Dont quite see how it supports your assertion that the devs agree with you.

Yes it does they made it exclusive because they didn't like people having a ton of them for clickies.

pjw
10-20-2009, 06:55 AM
Yes it does they made it exclusive because they didn't like people having a ton of them for clickies.

LOL! Even better. We now have a circular argument. "I must be right, because they did it".

At this point I think we need to agree to differ, though as I said several posts before Fluffy, I'd be happy with permanent GH.

Tamryn
10-20-2009, 12:47 PM
Oh.. in that case it's a complete failure. :)

All of them are failures in ways. But then thats what we've come to expect , so its what they deliver! :rolleyes:

Tamryn
10-20-2009, 12:51 PM
Since Borror0 has made it clear he will neg anyone who complains about neg rep I am pretty sure when he sees this you will have some more comming :eek:

Which is why the **** needs removed in the first place.... it was and still is a garbage idea...

sephiroth1084
10-20-2009, 02:12 PM
Lets face it, the spellstoring ring clicky is FAR from overpowered, but it was DAMN overpowered back when you could have infinate of em, especially back then when ~1,5k sp was a lot. Now, imagine that ring with +30% drop rate. :rolleyes:

Or in this level senario, imagine bauble at 30% drop rate and non-exclusive.

This example doesn't reflect the slant of this argument/conversation, since the power of these items "stack." That is, having multiple uses of mnemonic enhancers are inherently more powerful. A characters gains more power from multiple uses.

The same cannot be said about the GH clickies. Multiple uses may prolong their use, but the power doesn't increase directly.