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View Full Version : Why run shroud on hard or elite?



Lithic
10-17-2009, 06:07 PM
There should be a reason. Easy fix would be to increase the drop rate of shards on hard and elite (seems to be 1 in 10 on norm, make it 1 in 5 on hard, 1 in 3 on elite), and give hard/elite a chance of a second large in the last chest.

PopeDX
10-17-2009, 06:14 PM
Xp? ;)

IronAngel
10-17-2009, 06:19 PM
Favor :)

ZeroTakenaka
10-17-2009, 06:22 PM
The challenge. It's fun if it's harder. sometimes.

Yargore
10-17-2009, 06:27 PM
There is no reason to run shroud on hard or elite with capped characters.

I agree with your suggestions.

Angelus_dead
10-17-2009, 08:14 PM
There should be a reason. Easy fix would be to increase the drop rate of shards on hard and elite (seems to be 1 in 10 on norm, make it 1 in 5 on hard, 1 in 3 on elite), and give hard/elite a chance of a second large in the last chest.
It would be difficult to "fix" it, because unlike most raids, Shroud elite isn't only competing against the normal and hard modes of that same raid. There's only one opportunity to get chests from VOD, so the only way to increase your loot chances within the 3-day period is to do it on a harder mode.

But compared to Shroud elite, you not only have to consider the option of Shroud normal, but also Shroud normal 1-4,1-5 and Shroud normal 1,1,1,1-5, and all other variations that reset the instance before going all the way to the end and getting on lockout timer.

PS. I personally wonder if there would be more hard/elite Shroud runs today if it weren't so laggy, meaning that success is often dependent on your characters being powerful enough that they can survive for several seconds of missing player control.

Mhykke
10-17-2009, 08:19 PM
Impress the chicks?

Lithic
10-17-2009, 08:23 PM
It would be difficult to "fix" it, because unlike most raids, Shroud elite isn't only competing against the normal and hard modes of that same raid. There's only one opportunity to get chests from VOD, so the only way to increase your loot chances within the 3-day period is to do it on a harder mode.

But compared to Shroud elite, you not only have to consider the option of Shroud normal, but also Shroud normal 1-4,1-5 and Shroud normal 1,1,1,1-5, and all other variations that reset the instance before going all the way to the end and getting on lockout timer.

PS. I personally wonder if there would be more hard/elite Shroud runs today if it weren't so laggy, meaning that success is often dependent on your characters being powerful enough that they can survive for several seconds of missing player control.

If the chances for extra stuff was all in the last chest (say an extra 30% chance of each shard dropping in the last chest, as well as a chance for a second large), then the permutations other than shroud hard/elite 1-5 are irrelevant. The chests would be better, but noone farms shroud 1-4 for the random loot.

As for the lag, its possible it has an effect on the shroud hard/elite runs, but giving us a tangable reason to run it would overcome any lag effects. We might go back to the 1 cleric/1 tank, the rest range that we started with for example, as that would probably halve the attacks per second, with a corresponding drop in dps lag.

Angelus_dead
10-17-2009, 08:31 PM
If the chances for extra stuff was all in the last chest (say an extra 30% chance of each shard dropping in the last chest, as well as a chance for a second large), then the permutations other than shroud hard/elite 1-5 are irrelevant.
No, incorrect.

If there is X% more loot from phase 5 elite, a player who wants to get the most shroud loot possible still has to consider whether it would be better for him to instead do a bunch of incomplete 1-4 runs on normal mode. A normal shroud run can be easier, cheaper, and faster in multiple ways. Since the phase 4 chest can drop the same kinds of items as phase 5, it remains relevant to compare the 130% phase 5 loot with 100% phase 5 + 200% to 500% of phase 4. (Furthermore, since most shroud loot is tradable, we also must consider the player doing normal 1-5 on several different characters in the time a single elite run would take)

Like I said, it's complicated.


As for the lag, its possible it has an effect on the shroud hard/elite runs, but giving us a tangable reason to run it would overcome any lag effects.
Incorrect. Indeed, adding a bigger reward for elite shroud would make the lag problems be much more punishing to players, as you'd start to get raids failing after spending 10s of mana pots because someone still lagged out.

maddmatt70
10-17-2009, 08:32 PM
Why is it a good thing to provide incentives for people to run shroud on hard or elite is a more fundamental question? I am not altogether sure that it serves a purpose at this point to provide an incentive. This has been the most farmed/run quest in DDO for a long time perhaps it is more important to provide incentives to run other quests/raids before this one.

MagicianBlade
10-17-2009, 08:32 PM
It would be difficult to "fix" it, because unlike most raids, Shroud elite isn't only competing against the normal and hard modes of that same raid. There's only one opportunity to get chests from VOD, so the only way to increase your loot chances within the 3-day period is to do it on a harder mode.

But compared to Shroud elite, you not only have to consider the option of Shroud normal, but also Shroud normal 1-4,1-5 and Shroud normal 1,1,1,1-5, and all other variations that reset the instance before going all the way to the end and getting on lockout timer.

PS. I personally wonder if there would be more hard/elite Shroud runs today if it weren't so laggy, meaning that success is often dependent on your characters being powerful enough that they can survive for several seconds of missing player control.


That completely supports my theory that I've been tossing outt that people are telling me im insane about .. that "DPS Lag" does not exist. The problem is either in the network not being able to deal with it, or the computer not beingg able to deal with it. If it were a server problem, where the server was unable to process it, causing the lag, then the server would ALSO lag on processingg everything else, and you would have a generally slow moving game, rather than a fast moving game where people cant control.

So, if you're lagging, upgrade your network connection or your computer.

Angelus_dead
10-17-2009, 08:41 PM
that "DPS Lag" does not exist. The problem is either in the network not being able to deal with it, or the computer not beingg able to deal with it. If it were a server problem, where the server was unable to process it, causing the lag
Fallacious.

To complain about "DPS lag" does not mean you're claiming it is a kind of overload on the server. That isn't what the word "lag" means.


So, if you're lagging, upgrade your network connection or your computer.
That's senseless as a suggestion.

If those players are lagging for that reason, it indicates that the DDO software is seriously flawed. There is no good technical reason why 7-12 player characters attacking a monster should involve substantially increased network traffic to each individual client. A cleric player doesn't need to get a network message each time Arraetrikos takes another 41+7+0+0+1+1 damage... it's not like it can even display on his screen.

Mhykke
10-17-2009, 09:03 PM
So, if you're lagging, upgrade your network connection or your computer.

Being nice, you're extremely incorrect. The devs have even admitted the problem, and they didn't blame it all on people's connections or computers. It exists. It's real. You're incorrect.

sirgog
10-17-2009, 11:25 PM
Why is it a good thing to provide incentives for people to run shroud on hard or elite is a more fundamental question? I am not altogether sure that it serves a purpose at this point to provide an incentive. This has been the most farmed/run quest in DDO for a long time perhaps it is more important to provide incentives to run other quests/raids before this one.

The game mechanics push you to run the Shroud over and over and over, people will continue grinding it regardless of difficulty.

IMO it's more fun on Hard and Elite because it's tougher.


All that said, I'd be quite happy with a shard drop rate of 10%/20%/30% as the only change - the other alternative would be to add a low chance (0% normal, 1% hard, 3% elite) to the ingredient chests in parts 1, 3 and 5 to drop a random manufactured ingredient (e.g. Diluted Material Essence, Superior Focus of Air).

Clay
10-17-2009, 11:39 PM
agree more ingredients should drop on higher settings... perhaps +3 tomes on elite? (Probably just dreaming there... but dreams are good!)

Maybe on elite there can be chance for larges from both chests in pt 4 and 5 and on hard just part 5?