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View Full Version : Stacking This with That but not This I am so confuzled



nortuk
10-14-2009, 08:10 AM
I am of course new to the game I started playing when f2p was released and since
bought a number of packs and have hit 10 on my first char. I have almost spent as much
time reading the forums if not more than playing. I am constantly searching the fourms
DDO Wiki (great start with that btw) and any other online resource I can tap into for
answers to my hundreds of questions. I have played a few pnp games in the past and
expected as much and always find it fun, so no complaints. However I am having trouble
finding a good source for item, enhancement, feat stacking. Some things stack with others
while sometimes they don't :-P. Most the time feats stack with items and spells sometimes
stack with other buffs etc... I was wondering if someone could point me to a good post or
listing of what stacks with what or is it a look up on case by case type thing.

Thanks for the help!

Cedwin
10-14-2009, 08:20 AM
There are only a few items that stack in this game, so I would consider it a case by case thing. I know dodge bonuses to armor class stack, and I'm pretty sure luck bonuses still stack. Other then that you are looking at high end raid gear that has additional stat points that will stack with a +6 stat item.

nortuk
10-14-2009, 08:35 AM
Thanks for the quick response! I am more interested in Feat-Enhancement-Items-Spells...
Since it seems kind of random to me. I imagine it is all case by case hehe

For instance my main is a lvl 10 cleric atm...
Empower Healing -- Life Magic -- Devotion

I think those stacks but there are lots of oddities that don't like I said seems random to me

Mercules
10-14-2009, 08:44 AM
Rule of Thumb(which is an interesting phrase all on it's own).

If two bonuses have the same type name, like Morale then they probably do not stack. Dodge is an exception to this as are a couple other things.

DDO has other weird exceptions because Enhancements are not categorized(most of the time) bonuses. Instead they just sort of stack on the other things. So Elf Dex bonus and Rogue Dex bonus stack and stack with Dexterous Gloves that offer an 'enhancement' bonus and would also stack with something that offered a... say... 'psionic' bonus to Dex.

Zenako
10-14-2009, 09:44 AM
Bonuses from the same type of source do not stack. Bonuses from different type of sources do.

Items have Enchancement Bonuses.
Feats are Feat bonues (IIRC)
Action Point boons (often called Enhancements).

For a CLeric for example.

Using an Item with Devotion or Potency on it (often a weapon) provides an Enhancement bonuses to the effects of their spells (up to 50% increase with Superior)

Feats like Maximize increase the power of spells with variable damage dice. And adds to the power of the spell with the weapon above.

Enhancements from Action points, like LIfe Magic etc increase the power of the spells as well.

If you have an Item, Appropriate Metamagic Feats and Action Point Enhancements, then you are 95% of the way to where you can be for healing. (There are some special items which can increase the chances and power of critical healing that are mostly found in Raids, so I would not worry much about them at this point.)

nortuk
10-14-2009, 11:05 AM
Thanks for all the info, I guess a lot of it is knowing where the buff is coming
from kinda. Seems like experience is the biggest help here. hehe
I also happened to cross this on another post from Lasica which offer good
insight but I figure I will quote it here in case another player might search
up this topic


This is about a complete an explanation I can give, cut directly from the d20 SRD.

Stacking of bonus types: In most cases, modifiers to a given check or roll stack (combine for a cumulative effect) if they come from different sources and have different types (or no type at all), but do not stack if they have the same type or come from the same source (such as the same spell cast twice in succession). If the modifiers to a particular roll do not stack, only the best bonus and worst penalty applies. Dodge bonuses and circumstance bonuses however, do stack with one another unless otherwise specified.

Ability Modifier:The bonus or penalty associated with a particular ability score. Ability modifiers apply to die rolls for character actions involving the corresponding abilities.

Alchemical Bonus: An alchemical bonus is granted by the use of a nonmagical, alchemical substance such as antitoxin.

Armor Bonus: An armor bonus applies to Armor Class and is granted by armor or by a spell or magical effect that mimics armor. Armor bonuses stack with all other bonuses to Armor Class (even with natural armor bonuses) except other armor bonuses. An armor bonus doesn't apply against touch attacks, except for armor bonuses granted by force effects (such as the mage armor spell) which apply against incorporeal touch attacks, such as that of a shadow.

Circumstance Modifier: A circumstance bonus (or penalty) arises from specific conditional factors impacting the success of the task at hand. Circumstance bonuses stack with all other bonuses, including other circumstance bonuses, unless they arise from essentially the same source.

Competence Modifier: A competence bonus (or penalty) affects a character's performance of a particular task, as in the case of the bardic ability to inspire competence. Such a bonus may apply on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, caster level checks, or any other checks to which a bonus relating to level or skill ranks would normally apply. It does not apply on ability checks, damage rolls, initiative checks, or other rolls that aren't related to a character's level or skill ranks. Multiple competence bonuses don't stack; only the highest bonus applies.

Deflection Bonus: A deflection bonus affects Armor Class and is granted by a spell or magic effect that makes attacks veer off harmlessly. Deflection bonuses stack with all other bonuses to AC except other deflection bonuses. A deflection bonus applies against touch attacks.

Dodge Bonus: A dodge bonus improves Armor Class (and sometimes Reflex saves) resulting from physical skill at avoiding blows and other ill effects. Dodge bonuses are never granted by spells or magic items. Any situation or effect (except wearing armor) that negates a character's Dexterity bonus also negates any dodge bonuses the character may have. Dodge bonuses stack with all other bonuses to AC, even other dodge bonuses. Dodge bonuses apply against touch attacks.

Enhancement Bonus: An enhancement bonus represents an increase in the sturdiness and/or effectiveness of armor or natural armor, or the effectiveness of a weapon, or a general bonus to an ability score. Multiple enhancement bonuses on the same object (in the case of armor and weapons), creature (in the case of natural armor), or ability score do not stack. Only the highest enhancement bonus applies. Since enhancement bonuses to armor or natural armor effectively increase the armor or natural armor's bonus to AC, they don't apply against touch attacks.

Insight Bonus: An insight bonus improves performance of a given activity by granting the character an almost precognitive knowledge of what might occur. Multiple insight bonuses on the same character or object do not stack. Only the highest insight bonus applies.

Luck Modifier: A luck modifier represents good (or bad) fortune. Multiple luck bonuses on the same character or object do not stack. Only the highest luck bonus applies.

Morale Modifier: A morale bonus represents the effects of greater hope, courage, and determination (or hopelessness, cowardice, and despair in the case of a morale penalty). Multiple morale bonuses on the same character do not stack. Only the highest morale bonus applies. Nonintelligent creatures (creatures with an Intelligence of 0 or no Intelligence at all) cannot benefit from morale bonuses.

Natural Armor Bonus: A natural armor bonus improves Armor Class resulting from a creature's naturally tough hide. Natural armor bonuses stack with all other bonuses to Armor Class (even with armor bonuses) except other natural armor bonuses. Some magical effects (such as the barkskin spell) grant an enhancement bonus to the creature's existing natural armor bonus, which has the effect of increasing the natural armor's overall bonus to Armor Class. A natural armor bonus doesn't apply against touch attacks.

Profane Modifier: A profane bonus (or penalty) stems from the power of evil. Multiple profane bonuses on the same character or object do not stack. Only the highest profane bonus applies.

Racial bonus: A bonus granted because of the culture a particular creature was brought up in or because of innate characteristics of that type of creature. If a creature's race changes (for instance, if it dies and is reincarnated), it loses all racial bonuses it had in its previous form.

Resistance Bonus: A resistance bonus affects saving throws, providing extra protection against harm. Multiple resistance bonuses on the same character or object do not stack. Only the highest resistance bonus applies.

Sacred Modifier: A sacred bonus (or penalty) stems from the power of good. Multiple sacred bonuses on the same character or object do not stack. Only the highest sacred bonus applies.

Shield Bonus: A shield bonus improves Armor Class and is granted by a shield or by a spell or magic effect that mimics a shield. Shield bonuses stack with all other bonuses to AC except other shield bonuses. A magic shield typically grants an enhancement bonus to the shield's shield bonus, which has the effect of increasing the shield's overall bonus to AC. A shield bonus granted by a spell or magic item typically takes the form of an invisible, tangible field of force that protects the recipient. A shield bonus doesn't apply against touch attacks.

Size Modifier: A size bonus or penalty is derived from a creature's size category. Size modifiers of different kinds apply to Armor Class, attack rolls, Hide checks, grapple checks, and various other checks.

Milolyen
10-14-2009, 12:12 PM
Your quote of Lasica is pretty much dead on with the stacking.

One nitpic point where he/she was wrong at was

"Dodge bonuses are never granted by spells or magic items."

This is wrong. The spell Haste gives an increase in rate of attack and rate of movement, +1 reflex save and +1 dodge bonus to ac. There are also many magical items in DDO that give dodge bonus, Chatterring Ring and Icy Raignments are two of them. In DDO dodge bonuses stack unless they are of same bonus ... +3 from chatterring ring and +4 from Icy Raignments would stack to a +7 dodge bonus but the +3 you can get on dragontouch armor and +3 from chatterring ring will only give you a +3 dodge bonus.

Milolyen

Impaqt
10-14-2009, 12:20 PM
Feats Stack with Feats, Enhancements and Items. IE: Spell Penn Stacks with Greater Spell Penn Which stacks with Improved Spell Penn (I.II,III) Enhancements which then stacks with an Item (Greater SpellPenn VI Scepter).

Whether or not Items and Spells stack depend on the type of Bonus they provide.

You need to read the description of the spells and Items to see if they stack.

Dodge Bonus's stack as long as they are not the same Type of Dodge Bonus(You cant wear 2 Chattering Rings and you cant stack the Chattering RIng with the +3 Dodge bonus from the Dragontouched armor because they are coded the same)

Untyped Bonus's Stack as well.

Corebreach
10-14-2009, 10:14 PM
In DDO dodge bonuses stack unless they are of same bonus
Does anyone know why Turbine did this? It makes no sense to me.

Brennie
10-14-2009, 10:24 PM
Does anyone know why Turbine did this? It makes no sense to me.

To prevent stacking 8 different +3 dodge bonuses. Originally, they did not do this (I believe), but with better gear and higher bonuses, as well as more plentiful sources of dodge bonus, it became apparent that players could easily "work the system" to have incredible AC *just* from dodge bonuses.

Lasica
10-15-2009, 02:52 AM
Your quote of Lasica is pretty much dead on with the stacking.

One nitpic point where he/she was wrong at was

"Dodge bonuses are never granted by spells or magic items."

This is wrong. The spell Haste gives an increase in rate of attack and rate of movement, +1 reflex save and +1 dodge bonus to ac.

Thank you for correcting that. The info I pasted was from the d20 ruleset which is easy to find and cut and paste across, not the updated 3.5E rules, which checking my dungeon master's guide tonight reads...

Dodge: A doge bonus enhances a character's ability to get out of the way quickly. Dodge bonuses do stack with other dodge bonuses. Spells and magic items occasionally grant dodge bonuses.

In the original 3rd edition D&D rules, haste granted a +4 haste bonus to AC, in 3.5E this because a +1 dodge bonus so dodge bonus description was changed from never coming from spells or magic items to occasionally being granted.