PDA

View Full Version : Monk ki strikes buffed.



lanthan
10-10-2009, 09:43 PM
The monk elemental ki strikes now do 1d6 for first rank 2d6 for second 2d10 for third and 2d20 for fourth.

I dont know how the earth strikes have changed since i dont have the +2 con tome on the test server that my charecter needed for the 3rd tier of earth strikes.

they no longer do extra dmg on a crit.

fists of light does 4d6 dmg to undead and and 1d50 dmg to undead on a natural 20.

fist of darkness does 2d10 to living creatures and 1d50 to living creatures on a natural 20.

Angelus_dead
10-10-2009, 09:44 PM
And how about finishers?? (I assume you can't try Fist of Dark)

How about Fist of Iron? The previous version is a Ki attack which has +1 crit mult, which means it's basically less-damaging than a standard Enduring Strike. Since Enduring Strike just got even more powerful, Fist of Iron would be relatively more sucky than it already was...

Lehrman
10-10-2009, 09:45 PM
:eek:

lanthan
10-10-2009, 09:47 PM
And how about finishers?? (I assume you can't try Fist of Dark)

How about Fist of Iron? The previous version is a Ki attack which has +1 crit mult, which means it's basically less-damaging than a standard Enduring Strike. Since Enduring Strike just got even more powerful, Fist of Iron would be relatively more sucky than it already was...

the only change i have noticed with finishers is that earth dragon lasts 1 minute.

Junts
10-10-2009, 09:49 PM
And how about finishers?? (I assume you can't try Fist of Dark)

How about Fist of Iron? The previous version is a Ki attack which has +1 crit mult, which means it's basically less-damaging than a standard Enduring Strike. Since Enduring Strike just got even more powerful, Fist of Iron would be relatively more sucky than it already was...

Fist of iron has always been a great follow-up attack after a stunning fist or weighted 5% proc, however.

Junts
10-10-2009, 09:49 PM
the only change i have noticed with finishers is that earth dragon lasts 1 minute.

that makes me happy

Angelus_dead
10-10-2009, 09:57 PM
Fist of iron has always been a great follow-up attack after a stunning fist or weighted 5% proc, however.
Not "great". Once the enemy is stunned, taking 1 fewer punch to kill it has little value... or even negative value, considering you get less Ki refilled.

Junts
10-10-2009, 10:03 PM
Not "great". Once the enemy is stunned, taking 1 fewer punch to kill it has little value... or even negative value, considering you get less Ki refilled.

when using stunning to kill trashmobs its almost impossible to use all your ki anyway

manfredshw
10-11-2009, 03:16 AM
:eek:

:eek: :eek: :eek:]

really?

Monkey_Archer
10-11-2009, 05:53 AM
Dark finishers seem to be unchanged, they all do the same effects, although i cant be sure yet if the durations have been increased or not....

Karmic strike is still broken for handwraps.

Hendrik
10-11-2009, 07:07 AM
The monk elemental ki strikes now do 1d6 for first rank 2d6 for second 2d10 for third and 2d20 for fourth.

I dont know how the earth strikes have changed since i dont have the +2 con tome on the test server that my charecter needed for the 3rd tier of earth strikes.

they no longer do extra dmg on a crit.

fists of light does 4d6 dmg to undead and and 1d50 dmg to undead on a natural 20.

fist of darkness does 2d10 to living creatures and 1d50 to living creatures on a natural 20.

That just made my 3x GM Monk VERY happy!

:D

Shima-ra
10-11-2009, 08:43 PM
I wonder how much dmg a fire monk with lots of ki could unload.

Aerendil
10-13-2009, 09:14 AM
As I didn't see this mentioned anywhere in the pre-patch notes, I'd love to see some dev feedback here, just to confirm that this change was intended and isn't some weird bug that will be fixed ASAP (like the recent Bard fascinate change with DDO:EU).

You know, before my Monk soils himself in anticipation of update #1.

manfredshw
10-13-2009, 09:27 AM
WAI I think?
Cause I saw my monk dark fist's introduction had changed to:
2DXX, when you get a vorpal attack(nature20, followed critical confirm), you get additional 1d50 negtive...blah, blah, can't remember the details.

rimble
10-13-2009, 10:12 AM
I guess it's a good stopgap until they overhaul things to reduce the clicking...I just can't bind enough buttons to have the 16 or so strikes I need within easy reach. Are they still on separate cooldowns?

Can you still do Air IV-->Earth IV-->Fire IV-->Water IV in rapid succession?

Can you still do Air IV-->Air III-->Air II-->Air I in rapid succession?

lanthan
10-13-2009, 10:34 AM
I guess it's a good stopgap until they overhaul things to reduce the clicking...I just can't bind enough buttons to have the 16 or so strikes I need within easy reach. Are they still on separate cooldowns?

Can you still do Air IV-->Earth IV-->Fire IV-->Water IV in rapid succession?

Can you still do Air IV-->Air III-->Air II-->Air I in rapid succession?

They are still on separate cooldowns. On live I use 3 different versions of my main bar. One with all my highest lvl strikes and 2 more with strikes sorted by elemental type.

Eladrin
10-13-2009, 12:42 PM
Apologies for leaving these out of the release notes...

We're reviewing some aspects of the Monk class, and these are some of the initial changes that we're making for Update 1. There will be more changes being made to them over the next few updates, and these are all subject to further changes as we continue balancing the class.

Treasure:
Reduced the chance of Anarchic and Anarchic Burst handwrap drops.
Added Force, Force Burst, Metalline, Maiming, Bleed, and Pure Good to randomly generated handwrap treasure tables.

Feats/Enhancements:
Updated some monk active abilities. The special attacks attached to the elemental stances are now:

AIR:
Storm Strike I
You strike an opponent, backed with the power of lightning. Your attack will deal 1d6 additional lightning damage.

Storm Strike II
You strike an opponent, backed with the power of lightning. Your attack will deal 2d6 additional lightning damage.

Storm Strike III
You strike an opponent, backed with the power of lightning. Your attack will deal 2d10 additional lightning damage.

Storm Strike IV
You strike an opponent, backed with the power of lightning. Your attack will deal 2d20 additional lightning damage.

EARTH:
Strike of the Enduring I
You strike an opponent, backed with the strength of the earth. Your attack deals 4 additional damage.

Strike of the Enduring II
You strike an opponent, backed with the strength of the earth. Your attack deals 8 additional damage.

Strike of the Enduring III
You strike an opponent, backed with the strength of the earth. Your attack deals 12 additional damage, and 2d6 acid damage on critical hits.

Strike of the Enduring IV
You strike an opponent, backed with the strength of the earth. Your attack deals 16 additional damage, and 2d10 acid damage on critical hits.

FIRE:
Fires of Purity I
You strike an opponent, backed with the power of flame. Your attack will deal 1d6 additional fire damage.

Fires of Purity II
You strike an opponent, backed with the power of flame. Your attack will deal 2d6 additional fire damage.

Fires of Purity III
You strike an opponent, backed with the power of flame. Your attack will deal 2d10 additional fire damage.

Fires of Purity IV
You strike an opponent, backed with the power of flame. Your attack will deal 2d20 additional fire damage.

Breath of the Fire Dragon:
A cone of searing flame shoots forth, damaging targets in the area of the flames for 1d6 damage per Monk level. A successful Reflex save (DC 10 + Monk Level + Wisdom Modifier) reduces the damage by half.

WATER:
Flowing Water Strike I
You strike an opponent, backed with the power of the sea. Your attack will deal 1d6 additional cold damage.

Flowing Water Strike II
You strike an opponent, backed with the power of the sea. Your attack will deal 2d6 additional cold damage.

Flowing Water Strike III
You strike an opponent, backed with the power of the sea. Your attack will deal 2d10 additional cold damage.

Flowing Water Strike IV
You strike an opponent, backed with the power of the sea. Your attack will deal 2d20 additional cold damage.

The Raging Sea:
Increased the duration between repeated saves.

DARK:
Fists of Darkness
You channel negative energy into your attack, dealing 2d10 additional damage against living creatures, and the rendering the target shaken. (A successful DC 10 + Monk Level + Wisdom Mod Will save negate the shaken effect.) On a vorpal strike (natural 20 followed by critical confirmation), you deal an additional 1d50 negative energy damage.

Touch of Despair
You strike your opponent down with a terrible curse, halving all positive energy healing done to the target, reducing its fortification and increasing its negative energy vulnerability by 25%. A successful Fortitude save negates this effect. (DC 10 + Monk Level + Wisdom mod) The target receives periodic saves to attempt to break free of this effect.

At this time this fortification reduction will permit critical hits on creatures that normally cannot be critically hit, but will not remove immunity to sneak attacks.

Falling Star Strike:
Increased the duration between repeated saves.

Eagle Claw Attack:
Increased the duration between repeated saves.

LIGHT:
Fists of Light
You channel positive energy into your attack, dealing 4d6 additional damage against undead, and applies a healing shield to your target which heals your allies that strike your target. On a vorpal strike (natural 20 followed by critical confirmation), you deal an additional 1d50 positive energy damage to undead.

Grasp the Earth Dragon:
Duration increased to match other XPX buffs.

Walk of the Sun:
The bonus to will saves was mistakenly typed as a Morale bonus. It is now untyped, like the other bonuses from this effect.

Aligning the Heavens:
The local area has been cleansed of things that might make spellcasting difficult, reducing your spell point costs by 25%. (Previously 10%)

Lithic
10-13-2009, 12:53 PM
Touch of Despair
You strike your opponent down with a terrible curse, halving all positive energy healing done to the target, reducing its fortification and increasing its negative energy vulnerability by 25%. A successful Fortitude save negates this effect. (DC 10 + Monk Level + Wisdom mod) The target receives periodic saves to attempt to break free of this effect.

At this time this fortification reduction will permit critical hits on creatures that normally cannot be critically hit, but will not remove immunity to sneak attacks.



And the rogues of the world started yelling "BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"

And no we are NOT saying "boo-urns! Boo-urns!"

Arkat
10-13-2009, 12:59 PM
Thanks for posting this stuff Eladrin.

Eladrin
10-13-2009, 01:02 PM
And the rogues of the world started yelling "BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"

And no we are NOT saying "boo-urns! Boo-urns!"
They can look at the part that says "at this time" and draw the appropriate conclusions from that if it'll make them happier.

Edit: Actually, they should be pretty happy anyway. Lowering fortification on creatures that aren't inherently flat-out immune to sneak attacks will increase their chances of landing sneak attacks. It's undead, elementals, and constructs (creatures that are immune-by-type) that the note refers to.

TreknaQudane
10-13-2009, 01:06 PM
Very nice stuff

Borror0
10-13-2009, 01:06 PM
Since you're around, Eladrin, is there any plan to make the other Dominion debuffs, well, useful?

Most of them don't apply on named characters and the ability to just them on trash mobs is fairly weak. As a result, the spec just pales in comparison to Balance.

Monkey_Archer
10-13-2009, 01:10 PM
Touch of Despair
You strike your opponent down with a terrible curse, halving all positive energy healing done to the target, reducing its fortification and increasing its negative energy vulnerability by 25%. A successful Fortitude save negates this effect. (DC 10 + Monk Level + Wisdom mod) The target receives periodic saves to attempt to break free of this effect.

At this time this fortification reduction will permit critical hits on creatures that normally cannot be critically hit, but will not remove immunity to sneak attacks.


Very nice. :)
Good to have 1 dark ability that will be helpful on raid bosses.. (this does still work on raid bosses right?)

Time to tell the clerics to load up Harm :D

Monkey_Archer
10-13-2009, 01:21 PM
Since you're around, Eladrin, is there any plan to make the other Dominion debuffs, well, useful?

Most of them don't apply on named characters and the ability to just them on trash mobs is fairly weak. As a result, the spec just pales in comparison to Balance.

Assuming touch of despair still works on raid bosses, as a practicing dark monk, I have no complaints about the usefulness of dark strikes at this time.

Eladrin
10-13-2009, 01:25 PM
Assuming touch of despair still works on raid bosses, as a practicing dark monk, I have no complaints about the usefulness of dark strikes at this time.
Touch of Despair works on bosses and raid bosses that are vulnerable to curses.

As for dark abilities in general, we're looking for a few more ways to make the path of dominion more interesting.

atxken
10-13-2009, 01:26 PM
any changes to remove blindness curse, etc.
they arent hardly worth it, as is. if they were party effect instead would be more useful. or a siple aoe like walk the sun.

Even the rez it seems most wot take it because u either have to previosly saving ki, or have to meditate for teki, which by then someoen else has brought them back to life.

what about changes to abundant step since favored soul with there wings now make us seem slow.

Valiance
10-13-2009, 01:31 PM
Aligning the Heavens:
The local area has been cleansed of things that might make spellcasting difficult, reducing your spell point costs by 25%. (Previously 10%)


Imo this is a pretty big change. This is an extra 750 sp for your average 3000sp favored soul. An extra 500+ for your cleric. This as well as other useful buffs/debuffs plus more dps might just make at least one monk a "nice to have" for most raids.

V

Monkey_Archer
10-13-2009, 01:35 PM
As for dark abilities in general, we're looking for a few more ways to make the path of dominion more interesting.

Good to know.
On that topic, It would be nice if all finishers (both light and dark) had some sort of upgraded effect for high level monks (16+). Pehaps increase the duration of buffs based on monk level and the time between saves on debuffs, have freezing the life blood become a hold monster effect (my favorite dark finisher that I rarely get to use since there are few humanoids at high levels :()... just ideas...

rimble
10-13-2009, 01:35 PM
Imo this is a pretty big change. This is an extra 750 sp for your average 3000sp favored soul. An extra 500+ for your cleric. This as well as other useful buffs/debuffs plus more dps might just make at least one monk a "nice to have" for most raids.

BTW, it's already in game. I try to catch the group with it before mass buffing at the entrance to quests, and after shrines. Other than that it's kinda tough to keep up with everything else you have going on.

rimble
10-13-2009, 01:36 PM
Good to know.
On that topic, It would be nice if all finishers (both light and dark) had some sort of upgraded effect for high level monks (16+). Pehaps increase the duration of buffs based on monk level and the time between saves on debuffs, have freezing the life blood become a hold monster effect (my favorite dark finisher that I rarely get to use since there are few humanoids at high levels :()... just ideas...

Not as good as Hold Monster (no auto-crit), but we do get Shining Star, which is kind of fun.

The_Phenx
10-13-2009, 01:38 PM
Apologies for leaving these out of the release notes...

Treasure:
Reduced the chance of Anarchic and Anarchic Burst handwrap drops.
Added Force, Force Burst, Metalline, Maiming, Bleed, and Pure Good to randomly generated handwrap treasure tables.

You going to add all this to staves? Along with cold iron, adamantine, flametouched iron, etc?

Since staves can be shod only makes sense.

Oh and thanks for the new awesome staves you already did put in.

Monkey_Archer
10-13-2009, 01:39 PM
Not as good as Hold Monster (no auto-crit), but we do get Shining Star, which is kind of fun.

Yes but shining star is a 1 shot strike... Freezing the lifeblood is a 4 move finisher that requires more time/ki to use

lanthan
10-13-2009, 01:46 PM
shining star is a 4 move finisher as well you have to use earth air fire before you can use it.

Monkey_Archer
10-13-2009, 01:49 PM
shining star is a 4 move finisher as well you have to use earth air fire before you can use it.

Oh.. did not know that

Vhlad
10-13-2009, 02:07 PM
How about a buff to ten thousand stars?

It's really just 1 moderately slow star right now. An ability like ten thousand stars sounds like it should give something like multishot for shurikens.

Maybe just a name change will suffice. Call it "throw 1 star a little faster"

Junts
10-13-2009, 02:10 PM
Touch of Despair works on bosses and raid bosses that are vulnerable to curses.

As for dark abilities in general, we're looking for a few more ways to make the path of dominion more interesting.

There is, ironically, no need to reduce anarchic/burst effect occurance, because due to the wierd nature of handwrap coding, they don't apply a negative level. I've tried to bug that a few times, but the bug and play ticket interfaces often don't work right for me, so maybe it was never logged properly.

Thanimal
10-13-2009, 02:23 PM
The monk elemental ki strikes now do 1d6 for first rank 2d6 for second 2d10 for third and 2d20 for fourth.

I'm not exactly knowledgeable on straight up Monks (to put it mildly), so I need a little clarification here. I thought the old progression was 1d6, 2d6, 3d6, 4d6?

If so, this is an interesting buff in that it went from linear to "almost linear for 3 levels followed by a massive jump." In particular, 2d10 is only a half point more than 3d6, but 2d20 averages 21 compared to 4d6 averaging 14, or a full 50% increase over what it used to be at that tier.

Is the point of this to make there be a really good reason to stay with mostly Monk? (If so, I approve. Just trying to undertand.)

lanthan
10-13-2009, 02:28 PM
I'm not exactly knowledgeable on straight up Monks (to put it mildly), so I need a little clarification here. I thought the old progression was 1d6, 2d6, 3d6, 4d6?

If so, this is an interesting buff in that it went from linear to "almost linear for 3 levels followed by a massive jump." In particular, 2d10 is only a half point more than 3d6, but 2d20 averages 21 compared to 4d6 averaging 14, or a full 50% increase over what it used to be at that tier.

Is the point of this to make there be a really good reason to stay with mostly Monk? (If so, I approve. Just trying to undertand.)

The old progression is 1d6, 2d6, 2d6 + 2d6 on crit, 3d6 + 3d6 on crit.

Angelus_dead
10-13-2009, 02:32 PM
Touch of Despair works on bosses and raid bosses that are vulnerable to curses.
But um, it only has an effect if the boss actually has healing of some kind, which is just a slim minority of them. (Pit Fiends often have healing, but are also usually curse-proof). I almost want to try Touch of Despair out on Barnizdu in New Invasion... except that the new feat respec costs make it insane to switch to test (and back).

1 million fragments...


As for dark abilities in general, we're looking for a few more ways to make the path of dominion more interesting.
It's needed now more than ever, since Harmonious monks have received a large boost in raid-boss effectiveness thanks to increasing Aligning the Heavens from 10% to 25% spellpoint conservation. That's a BIG help to the casters and healers in a raid. Literally, 5 sorcs + 1 monk have more spell damage capacity than 6 sorcs (and they also have whatever martial DPS the monk provides).

Visty
10-13-2009, 02:36 PM
2 million fragments...

fixed

you need to swap it back too :p

Borror0
10-13-2009, 02:41 PM
/snip
I'm surprised you did not take advantage of the situation to suggest possible changes to Fortification.

[...] except that the new feat respec costs make it insane to switch to test (and back).
I never understood why the feat respec was gated by dragonshards. To me, a respec is something you want to give your playerbase to adapt to rule changes and to recover from mistakes made while learning the game (or experimenting). If that is the goal, then limiting the access to it by requiring a rare item seems counterproductive. Even less when the respec could instead be used as a moneysink to take some of the virtual currency out of the game.

If there is a concern about frequency of use, a timer or a cost that increase after each use (with a cap and lowers when not used after a certain amount of time) could be used instead to ensure that the players don't use it too often (if that's really a concern or a problem).

This, by the way, also applies to Lesser Reincarnation.

jakeelala
10-13-2009, 02:49 PM
I'm surprised you did not take advantage of the situation to suggest possible changes to Fortification.

I never understood why the feat respec was gated by dragonshards. To me, a respec is something you want to give your playerbase to adapt to rule changes and to recover from mistakes made while learning the game (or experimenting). If that is the goal, then limiting the access to it by requiring a rare item seems counterproductive. Even less when the respec could instead be used as a moneysink to take some of the virtual currency out of the game.

If there is a concern about frequency of use, a timer or a cost that increase after each use (with a cap and lowers when not used after a certain amount of time) could be used instead to ensure that the players don't use it too often (if that's really a concern or a problem).

This, by the way, also applies to Lesser Reincarnation.

I agree but I think we can all understand pretty clearly it's a way for Turbine to make more money on the Turbine Store by making the item so rare and impossible to find that you pretty much just have to keep buying them.

I really don't understand the VIP things anymore. It just makes way more sense to go FtP, and I think Turbine knows it, they're just waiting for us all to go that way.

rimble
10-13-2009, 02:49 PM
I never understood why the feat respec was gated by dragonshards. To me, a respec is something you want to give your playerbase to adapt to rule changes and to recover from mistakes made while learning the game (or experimenting). If that is the goal, then limiting the access to it by requiring a rare item seems counterproductive. Even less when the respec could instead be used as a moneysink to take some of the virtual currency out of the game.

If there is a concern about frequency of use, a timer or a cost that increase after each use (with a cap and lowers when not used after a certain amount of time) could be used instead to ensure that the players don't use it too often (if that's really a concern or a problem).

This, by the way, also applies to Lesser Reincarnation.

Yeah, they've been needing a mechanic to grant respecs (or Reincarnates). Something they can pass out after significant changes, or pass out per character that is affected by a specific change, or hell even just a veteran reward, or like a free 16-month old character reward or something.

I think having a cost normally is fine, but when we need to fix ourselves after changes, having to pay for that is kinda rude.

Vhlad
10-13-2009, 02:52 PM
Touch of Despair
You strike your opponent down with a terrible curse, halving all positive energy healing done to the target, reducing its fortification and increasing its negative energy vulnerability by 25%. A successful Fortitude save negates this effect. (DC 10 + Monk Level + Wisdom mod) The target receives periodic saves to attempt to break free of this effect.


Anyone test to see if the enemy monks are spamming this on the players now? (say, for example, in monastery).

Not many mobs heal. Not many players use negative energy. Many raid bosses are immune to curses. And enemy fortification (discounting undead, elementals, certain constructs) is not an issue in most content. Seems like a great attack for mobs to use on us though. The days of critical hit instakills appear to be returning. At least WF will have a benefit to that 125% fortification, but urgh. Not excited to see this ability in the game.

Edit:
We can chug a remove curse pot to remove this, right?

jakeelala
10-13-2009, 02:52 PM
Yeah, they've been needing a mechanic to grant respecs (or Reincarnates). Something they can pass out after significant changes, or pass out per character that is affected by a specific change, or hell even just a veteran reward, or like a free 16-month old character reward or something.

I think having a cost normally is fine, but when we need to fix ourselves after changes, having to pay for that is kinda rude.

It is very rude to make us pay for them changing the rules and pulling the rug out from under us every mod. Every time there's a big rule change you should get 3 or 4 days and 2 respec shards (that disappear after the 3 or 4 days) to swap out feats for FREE.

Anything else is literally a classic con game called a "bait and switch". I know this is only an MMO, but it's bordering on the illegal, especially now that you have to pay for it.

It's really most similar to a car company making you PAY for a recall repair.

Would you ever pay for a recall repair?

Eladrin
10-13-2009, 02:53 PM
But um, it only has an effect if the boss actually has healing of some kind, which is just a slim minority of them.
Many named and raid bosses have some degree of fortification, which Touch of Despair now reduces. (...reducing its fortification and increasing its negative energy vulnerability by 25%)


1 million fragments...
Fragments aren't the only type of khyber shards that drop these days.

Dylos_Moon
10-13-2009, 02:56 PM
I really don't understand the VIP things anymore. It just makes way more sense to go FtP, and I think Turbine knows it, they're just waiting for us all to go that way.

You're probably right, especially considering when I told Tarrent that I was going Psudo-VIP F2P with all content during the lamannia closed beta awhile ago, he said it was a good idea. (or something similar, I don't have an exact quote.)

Borror0
10-13-2009, 02:57 PM
I agree but I think we can all understand pretty clearly it's a way for Turbine to make more money on the Turbine Store by making the item so rare and impossible to find that you pretty much just have to keep buying them.
I know but I have been pretty clear in the past that I dislike that strategy.

Personally, I have no problem with them selling "respec tokens" (ie dragonshards now grant a free feat respec with no additional fee, Lesser Heart of wood grant Lesser Reincarnation with no additional fee, etc.) in the DDO Store but I would like the ability to respec to be fairly accessible. It just seems unwise to make it so cumbersome to respec and expansive to respec.

Angelus_dead
10-13-2009, 03:04 PM
I never understood why the feat respec was gated by dragonshards. To me, a respec is something you want to give your playerbase to adapt to rule changes and to recover from mistakes made while learning the game (or experimenting).
Well, there are multiple different reasons you might want to respec:
1. I just changed my mind. (my fault)
2. I wanted to try something for variety. (my fault)
3. I screwed up before. (my fault)
4. The documentation is incomplete or wrong. (dev's fault)
5. The game rules changed after I made the choice. (dev's fault)

For case #5, which is a very important one, feat respec tokens should be sent to characters whenever a major change happens (which would be essentially every large update). A shard requirement can be used for reasons 1-3.

Angelus_dead
10-13-2009, 03:08 PM
Many named and raid bosses have some degree of fortification, which Touch of Despair now reduces.
Crits on liches! O_o


Fragments aren't the only type of khyber shards that drop these days.
It's sib for respec, and yeah, I got 28 Flawed Sib shards in an outdoor Shav chest the other day. Counting the multiple bank slots full of sib shards I had from before, I'm still not quite 50% of the way to swapping a single feat.

A 10x factor between level 16 and 17 is too steep.

Dretharis
10-13-2009, 03:09 PM
... If that is the goal, then limiting the access to it by requiring a rare item seems counterproductive. Even less when the respec could instead be used as a moneysink to take some of the virtual currency out of the game.

This, by the way, also applies to Lesser Reincarnation.

Just wanted to highlight that. The game could really use a drain besides repairs and scrolls. Without one, inflation will spiral even further out of control, with the intial F2P population hitting the point where they can farm explorer areas and sell to vendors.

Borror0
10-13-2009, 03:13 PM
2. I wanted to try something for variety. (my fault) [...]

A shard requirement can be used for reasons 1-3.
I would argue that #2 is something you want to encourage and that shard are a blockade to that.

Monkey_Archer
10-13-2009, 03:15 PM
Hmm... buff to Dominion causes a disturbance in the force... triggers argument about feat respec it does...

Yes... give in to your hate... join me on the dark side...

jakeelala
10-13-2009, 03:15 PM
I know but I have been pretty clear in the past that I dislike that strategy.

Personally, I have no problem with them selling "respec tokens" (ie dragonshards now grant a free feat respec with no additional fee, Lesser Heart of wood grant Lesser Reincarnation with no additional fee, etc.) in the DDO Store but I would like the ability to respec to be fairly accessible. It just seems unwise to make it so cumbersome to respec and expansive to respec.

Hey man, I'm with YOU.

I'm just calling it how I see it, not endorsing the play.

Monkey_Archer
10-13-2009, 03:19 PM
Many raid bosses are immune to curses.

Correct me if im wrong but arent only horned devils immune to curse, while it should still work on pit fiends?

Angelus_dead
10-13-2009, 03:23 PM
Many named and raid bosses have some degree of fortification, which Touch of Despair now reduces. (...reducing its fortification and increasing its negative energy vulnerability by 25%)
That negative vulnerability made me think it would be cool to combine Touch of Despair with the new Death's Touch weapon from the Dreaming Dark, which does 2d6 negative per hit. But that wouldn't work: it's a sickle, so monks won't be centered.

Therefore, a suggestion:
Change Death's Touch from a sickle to a kama, but make it grant kama proficiency to the wielder. (A possible negative implication would be it becoming too easy to stack Fist of Light + Lesser Vampirism for easy self-healing)

Borror0
10-13-2009, 03:25 PM
Hey man, I'm with YOU.

I'm just calling it how I see it, not endorsing the play.
I know. I'm just using your post as an excuse to jump on my soapbox. I was about to start a thread about that topic. Now I don't need to. :p

Junts
10-13-2009, 03:28 PM
Correct me if im wrong but arent only horned devils immune to curse, while it should still work on pit fiends?


horned devils and pit fiends are both immune to curses

Monkey_Archer
10-13-2009, 03:54 PM
horned devils and pit fiends are both immune to curses

Just tested this on the battlefield and managed to land touch of despair on both the pit fiends and horned devils out there. Pehaps they are only immune to the actual curse spell?

Another interesting note: while the desciption on the touch of despair finisher on Live hasnt changed, when you examine the target it has the new effects listed (-25% fort, +25% neg energy)....

schroedingercat
10-13-2009, 03:55 PM
nt

maddmatt70
10-13-2009, 04:22 PM
They can look at the part that says "at this time" and draw the appropriate conclusions from that if it'll make them happier.

Edit: Actually, they should be pretty happy anyway. Lowering fortification on creatures that aren't inherently flat-out immune to sneak attacks will increase their chances of landing sneak attacks. It's undead, elementals, and constructs (creatures that are immune-by-type) that the note refers to.

Here I thought I was playing a game based on Dungeons and Dragons.. How about instead of mechanisms like this just having less undead, elementals and constructs and high fortification targets in general in DDO? This is kind of a backwards approach to rogues..

Junts
10-13-2009, 04:27 PM
Just tested this on the battlefield and managed to land touch of despair on both the pit fiends and horned devils out there. Pehaps they are only immune to the actual curse spell?

Another interesting note: while the desciption on the touch of despair finisher on Live hasnt changed, when you examine the target it has the new effects listed (-25% fort, +25% neg energy)....

They are certainly all immune to curse of healing, so if its working on them it probably isn't supposed to.

Vhlad
10-13-2009, 04:41 PM
They are certainly all immune to curse of healing, so if its working on them it probably isn't supposed to.

I don't believe curse of healing works on the main bosses in TOD (aside from the orthon), shroud, or VOD. But interestingly, it works on the pit fiend in bastion of power (as well as the queen). Havent tested it on the demon queen raid boss though.

Shima-ra
10-13-2009, 05:02 PM
As for dark abilities in general, we're looking for a few more ways to make the path of dominion more interesting.


Why not make the special attacks actually work against mobs ?
It would be a start.

I was really disapointed once I realized all the special finishers only worked on humanoids. Once I was passed Tangleroot, the fun style I worked on became useless.

Take Freezing the Lifeblood for exemple, its a great idea, but it should not mimic Hold Person straight up;
Orthons and Giants have blood too. It should be like Hold Monster, even with the super high DC we'd need to acheive to make usefull, at least we might consider it then.



Monks are getting up to par with other classes now tho,
Well built and well played, they have alot to offer to the party.
I know I'm having alot of fun with mine :)

Shade
10-13-2009, 05:11 PM
Fragments aren't the only type of khyber shards that drop these days.

If you play ddo realistic, yes they are.

Tiny shards drop in quantities of 1-10, at a rate of 0.0001%, from breakables in about 3 quests in the game..

Would not qualify that as even mattering.

Also your replying to the subject of siberys shards, not khyber. Sib shards do drop in there higher up types.. But I have absolutely never seen a flawless sib shard drop, by anyone, anytime.. Way too rare. Heck even in the new epic quests - best I pulled was a exceptional.. in a quest where only lvl20s can be, respec shards that are no use to them drop..

Either way, the way the systme is designed now.. Almost all siberys and khyber shards in the game are deleted and never used, because the numbers required and the insane amount of time to grind them up is just not worth it.

Fix it please.
Allow us to put 5 stacks of 1000 fragments in the stone of change first off (something I recall being said was worked on months ago but is still not possible)
and 2ndly, up the conversion rate to something reasonable.

Monkey_Archer
10-13-2009, 05:26 PM
Almost all siberys and khyber shards in the game are deleted and never used

/snip...

Fix it please.
Allow us to put 5 stacks of 1000 fragments in the stone of change first off (something I recall being said was worked on months ago but is still not possible)
and 2ndly, up the conversion rate to something reasonable.

Add to that, allow siberys fragments to stack up to 1'000'000 in an ingredients bag....

expecting us to hold 1000 stacks of 1000 for a feat swap is beyond rediculous....

Angelus_dead
10-13-2009, 05:34 PM
Almost all siberys and khyber shards in the game are deleted and never used
That is very true; they stay in the chest. One simple way to improve the situation would be to raise the stack size from 1k to 10k+, because at high level one drop of Siberys shards is 600-900. So, a character can't collect more than one drop at a time before they start taking up extra inventory slots, which means fewer 128,000 plat vendor trash weapons you can carry.

If the allowable stack size was closer to the huge number that you'd need to actually DO something with them, then more players would take the time to hang onto them and auction them to people who want some.

Junts
10-13-2009, 05:38 PM
That is very true; they stay in the chest. One simple way to improve the situation would be to raise the stack size from 1k to 10k+, because at high level one drop of Siberys shards is 600-900. So, a character can't collect more than one drop at a time before they start taking up extra inventory slots, which means fewer 128,000 plat vendor trash weapons you can carry.

If the allowable stack size was closer to the huge number that you'd need to actually DO something with them, then more players would take the time to hang onto them and auction them to people who want some.

hell, just allowing one bag to hold multiple stacks of the same item, so it could hold 10 stacks of 10000, would be fine, but since they cant, the fragments just use too much space

Angelus_dead
10-13-2009, 05:58 PM
hell, just allowing one bag to hold multiple stacks of the same item, so it could hold 10 stacks of 10000, would be fine, but since they cant, the fragments just use too much space
Reminds me of Subterane Planar Shards, which don't go in collectible bags even though they pretty clearly ARE collectibles. (And they share the problem of requiring more than one full stack for a turn-in)

Timjc86
10-13-2009, 06:32 PM
Treasure:
Added Force, Force Burst, Metalline, Maiming, Bleed, and Pure Good to randomly generated handwrap treasure tables.

I really hate to be that guy, but I'd love some confirmation on this.

GhostNull
10-13-2009, 07:31 PM
Apologies for leaving these out of the release notes...

We're reviewing some aspects of the Monk class, and these are some of the initial changes that we're making for Update 1. There will be more changes being made to them over the next few updates, and these are all subject to further changes as we continue balancing the class.

Treasure:
Reduced the chance of Anarchic and Anarchic Burst handwrap drops.
Added Force, Force Burst, Metalline, Maiming, Bleed, and Pure Good to randomly generated handwrap treasure tables.

Feats/Enhancements:
Updated some monk active abilities. The special attacks attached to the elemental stances are now:

AIR:
Storm Strike I
You strike an opponent, backed with the power of lightning. Your attack will deal 1d6 additional lightning damage.

Storm Strike II
You strike an opponent, backed with the power of lightning. Your attack will deal 2d6 additional lightning damage.

Storm Strike III
You strike an opponent, backed with the power of lightning. Your attack will deal 2d10 additional lightning damage.

Storm Strike IV
You strike an opponent, backed with the power of lightning. Your attack will deal 2d20 additional lightning damage.

EARTH:
Strike of the Enduring I
You strike an opponent, backed with the strength of the earth. Your attack deals 4 additional damage.

Strike of the Enduring II
You strike an opponent, backed with the strength of the earth. Your attack deals 8 additional damage.

Strike of the Enduring III
You strike an opponent, backed with the strength of the earth. Your attack deals 12 additional damage, and 2d6 acid damage on critical hits.

Strike of the Enduring IV
You strike an opponent, backed with the strength of the earth. Your attack deals 16 additional damage, and 2d10 acid damage on critical hits.

FIRE:
Fires of Purity I
You strike an opponent, backed with the power of flame. Your attack will deal 1d6 additional fire damage.

Fires of Purity II
You strike an opponent, backed with the power of flame. Your attack will deal 2d6 additional fire damage.

Fires of Purity III
You strike an opponent, backed with the power of flame. Your attack will deal 2d10 additional fire damage.

Fires of Purity IV
You strike an opponent, backed with the power of flame. Your attack will deal 2d20 additional fire damage.

Breath of the Fire Dragon:
A cone of searing flame shoots forth, damaging targets in the area of the flames for 1d6 damage per Monk level. A successful Reflex save (DC 10 + Monk Level + Wisdom Modifier) reduces the damage by half.

WATER:
Flowing Water Strike I
You strike an opponent, backed with the power of the sea. Your attack will deal 1d6 additional cold damage.

Flowing Water Strike II
You strike an opponent, backed with the power of the sea. Your attack will deal 2d6 additional cold damage.

Flowing Water Strike III
You strike an opponent, backed with the power of the sea. Your attack will deal 2d10 additional cold damage.

Flowing Water Strike IV
You strike an opponent, backed with the power of the sea. Your attack will deal 2d20 additional cold damage.

The Raging Sea:
Increased the duration between repeated saves.

DARK:
Fists of Darkness
You channel negative energy into your attack, dealing 2d10 additional damage against living creatures, and the rendering the target shaken. (A successful DC 10 + Monk Level + Wisdom Mod Will save negate the shaken effect.) On a vorpal strike (natural 20 followed by critical confirmation), you deal an additional 1d50 negative energy damage.

Touch of Despair
You strike your opponent down with a terrible curse, halving all positive energy healing done to the target, reducing its fortification and increasing its negative energy vulnerability by 25%. A successful Fortitude save negates this effect. (DC 10 + Monk Level + Wisdom mod) The target receives periodic saves to attempt to break free of this effect.

At this time this fortification reduction will permit critical hits on creatures that normally cannot be critically hit, but will not remove immunity to sneak attacks.

Falling Star Strike:
Increased the duration between repeated saves.

Eagle Claw Attack:
Increased the duration between repeated saves.

LIGHT:
Fists of Light
You channel positive energy into your attack, dealing 4d6 additional damage against undead, and applies a healing shield to your target which heals your allies that strike your target. On a vorpal strike (natural 20 followed by critical confirmation), you deal an additional 1d50 positive energy damage to undead.

Grasp the Earth Dragon:
Duration increased to match other XPX buffs.

Walk of the Sun:
The bonus to will saves was mistakenly typed as a Morale bonus. It is now untyped, like the other bonuses from this effect.

Aligning the Heavens:
The local area has been cleansed of things that might make spellcasting difficult, reducing your spell point costs by 25%. (Previously 10%)


Nice list of changes, Eladrin. Is there anything on the drawing board for higher tier enhancements/finishers for Void Strike? Going to quote some suggestions made by Angelus_Dead from this (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=205843) thread:


It was added so that if you somehow took 1-2 monk levels without the str, dex, con, or wis to qualify for any elemental strike, you could still use Ki for something.

They should fix void strike however:
Add Void Strike 2, 3, and 4 at levels 6, 12, and 18, doing the expected 2d4, burst, and 3d4 damages.

I would also like to see Void strike used in finishers, although some players would feel that's a nerf:
VVV = long range "hadoken" punch, including all the weapon effects of your handwraps
VPV = mass buff, 60 seconds of 1 armor AC and 1 shield AC, both increasing by 1 per 4 monk levels
VNV = target takes -6 penalty to his highest ability score, Will half.

Although the Void Strike damage for levels 6, 12 and 18 should be changed to 2d6, 2d10, and 2d20 as per the new special attack damage numbers.

Inspire
10-14-2009, 05:57 AM
Will Pale Masters enjoy being hit by Fist of Light?

Hendrik
10-14-2009, 07:26 AM
Hmm... buff to Dominion causes a disturbance in the force... triggers argument about feat respec it does...

Yes... give in to your hate... join me on the dark side...

Join us...

I'm still a Dark Jedi and never stopped spreading the joy that is the path of Dominion!

;)

zealous
10-14-2009, 08:05 AM
Combined with dual burst rings this might be a bit over the top...

A quick and dirty evaluation:

First off this is purely theoretical based mostly on the fact that there are currently no good handwraps for bypassing material based DR...that's slated to change though
Also while there might be a limit on how fast a player can push buttons iirc you are allowed to have hardware based macros such as "when I hold down left mouse button do 1-4 with regular mouse clicks inbetween".

Secondly, assuming that unarmed will generally be better than a minII khopesh even against foes with 0 fort (http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=377426) even if you just have a splash of monk, how good monk x is becomes a matter of how good <other class> y is in comparison.

Thirdly, with the henshin mystic set you can reach a ki generation of 2/3 per strike with/without sun stance if I understand it correctly, since 2d20/5=4,4 on average this will probably be the best set even against fire immune mobs, at 2.2 probably a wash. This means that you theoretically can stance dance and maintain windstance on average 4/5 attacks so windstance at 80% efficiency.

Lastly, 10 buffs + 8 PA + 13 str + 8 weapon enhancement bonus + 3.5 weapon base damage=>42.5 as a baseline.

monk20, old enhancements:
+7.5 from increased base damage
+0.4 sun stance str
wind stance IV=>+~6.5%
+<~11 from ki attacks
_____
~61.4*1.065=65.4

Paladin:
~7 from DF+DM
+~8% from zeal
+2 ~from ki attacks
+1 sun stance
+14 from KotC III
____
66.5*1.08=71.8


Fighter:
~10-15% from haste boost
7 wspec
4str+~2.4 damage + 0.05% from range stemming from kensai III
____
55.9*1.1*1.05=64.5

Now adding +11 extra from ki attacks to the monk could give it a dps higher than a fighter, and higher than a paladin even against evil outsiders...and this is with the monk not having any PrC...

Angelus_dead
10-14-2009, 09:58 AM
Combined with dual burst rings this might be a bit over the top...
For reasons like you listed, I had kinda expected that if the monk energy punches step 3 and 4 were becoming more damaging like this, they would also have their Ki prices increased. That would stop them from being such a consistent DPS boost for players willing to hammer the icons with perfect frequency, and instead be more of a micro-burst damage on demand.

Chaosprism
10-14-2009, 12:14 PM
Why not make the special attacks actually work against mobs ?
It would be a start.

I was really disapointed once I realized all the special finishers only worked on humanoids. Once I was passed Tangleroot, the fun style I worked on became useless.

Take Freezing the Lifeblood for exemple, its a great idea, but it should not mimic Hold Person straight up;
Orthons and Giants have blood too. It should be like Hold Monster, even with the super high DC we'd need to acheive to make usefull, at least we might consider it then.
Monks are getting up to par with other classes now tho,
Well built and well played, they have alot to offer to the party.
I know I'm having alot of fun with mine :)



The finishers are all about "nerve points" having one affect or another, not to say that an orthon doesnt have nerve points, but they're certainly not a normal humanoid which is why it wouldnt work. I'm assuming this is where they were going with the finishers.

Some ideas for DARK finishers to compete with the goody two shoes healing abilities.

Fire Dark Fire: Flame Pulse
Sets all creatures alight in Z foot radius around the struck enemy. For X seconds dealing Yd4 fire and Yd4 negative energy damage each second.


Water Dark Water: Vampiric Essence
Drains X life from surrounding living creatures and siphons Y% of it into the monk.


Earth Dark Earth: Violent Tremor
Fractures and shatters the armour, weapons and shields of nearby enemies for X seconds. (enemies lose 1/2 their armor value and have 50% miss chance with their broken weapon)


Air Dark Air: Wind Buffet
Like the vortex of an air elemental, flings away randomly and possibly knocks down all enemies in an radius of X around the struck victim. Victims take double falling damage due to disorientation.

Monkey_Archer
10-14-2009, 12:21 PM
Air Dark Air: Wind Buffet


/drool...

:rolleyes: I mean, NO, definately not :D

QuantumFX
10-14-2009, 03:01 PM
Eladrin: Will we see the Monk PrE's in Update 1? Or is Lammania feature complete at the moment?


shining star is a 4 move finisher as well you have to use Earth, Wind and Fire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth,_Wind_&_Fire) before you can use it.

Fixed that for ya.

Turial
10-14-2009, 03:26 PM
That negative vulnerability made me think it would be cool to combine Touch of Despair with the new Death's Touch weapon from the Dreaming Dark, which does 2d6 negative per hit. But that wouldn't work: it's a sickle, so monks won't be centered.

Therefore, a suggestion:
Change Death's Touch from a sickle to a kama, but make it grant kama proficiency to the wielder. (A possible negative implication would be it becoming too easy to stack Fist of Light + Lesser Vampirism for easy self-healing)

Or make it one of those nifty Ki weapons that Eladrin has mentioned from time to time.

Angelus_dead
10-14-2009, 04:24 PM
Or make it one of those nifty Ki weapons that Eladrin has mentioned from time to time.
Yes, but a kama that grants proficiency is slightly more powerful for non-monk characters, as it could potentially be used it TWF with some other good kama(an unlikely scenario, but it's there).

Solmage
10-14-2009, 04:59 PM
Many named and raid bosses have some degree of fortification, which Touch of Despair now reduces. (...reducing its fortification and increasing its negative energy vulnerability by 25%)


Yes... but now we need a (tough) boss that has healing + vulnerable to curse, or fort + vulnerable to curse - and there are precious few that qualify.

Of the top of my head, reasonably hard enemies where one might bother with this:

- Harry the Angry Little Pit Fiend - nope, immune to curse
- Sally the Horny Little Devil - nope, immune to curse
- Horoth the Angry Bigger Pit Fiend - nope, immune to curse

- Bosses in new Shavarath quests - way too easy to bother with.
- Jolly Green Giant Lich - Meh. Mild benefit since he burns rather nicely.
- Abbot - Perhaps, would need testing to see if it can even land.

- Running with devils named Eladrin - should help, specially when doing the quest at low levels (say 12 or so?)


...I think I'll take my 25% extra healing and caster dps, unless someone can add some (significant) enemies to the list, which I may be forgetting?

But I have always been meaning to ask ... why the 'eck ARE Harry and Sally immune to curse? You know, if you remove that little (annoying as heck freebie) pseudo-buff that negative energy thing becomes a lot more useful..

Solmage
10-14-2009, 05:03 PM
Fragments aren't the only type of khyber shards that drop these days.

No, you sometimes also get 60 lesser shards .. But when you need 1,000,000, you'll still a saint's patience, a lot of inventory space, and oh about 4 months of dedicated collecting and mailing to make a single shard.

Meh, I don't think it's that bad, certainly stopped the favored enemy of the day syndrome, but it was REALLY bad with PrCs like Kensai suddenly wanting to respec to another weapon type. Hopefully the lesser reincarnation won't be too prohibitive and will address this well enough.

Gornin
10-14-2009, 06:10 PM
Apologies for leaving these out of the release notes...

/snippage to save space


My monk just /faint -ed

Turial
10-15-2009, 11:41 AM
No, you sometimes also get 60 lesser shards .. But when you need 1,000,000, you'll still a saint's patience, a lot of inventory space, and oh about 4 months of dedicated collecting and mailing to make a single shard.

Meh, I don't think it's that bad, certainly stopped the favored enemy of the day syndrome, but it was REALLY bad with PrCs like Kensai suddenly wanting to respec to another weapon type. Hopefully the lesser reincarnation won't be too prohibitive and will address this well enough.

I have 3 bags and 6 bank slots dedicated to making respec shards and I have yet to reach the top tier shard. 1,000,000 fragments is a bit much.

Garth_of_Sarlona
10-19-2009, 11:25 AM
Yes... but now we need a (tough) boss that has healing + vulnerable to curse, or fort + vulnerable to curse - and there are precious few that qualify.

Of the top of my head, reasonably hard enemies where one might bother with this:

- Harry the Angry Little Pit Fiend - nope, immune to curse
- Sally the Horny Little Devil - nope, immune to curse
- Horoth the Angry Bigger Pit Fiend - nope, immune to curse


It's still worth reducing the fort on these mobs by 25% - those with tharne's goggles gets a +2 to dmg and rogues get even more.

Also you left out the orthon in part 1 of tod who isn't immune to curses.

In addition - all the examples you give would benefit from a 25% more effective Harm landing on them if the cleric isn't doing anything else (e.g. Harry cleric dps).

Gotta admit I'm more excited by the ki strike dps than the debuffs to be honest.

Garth

Angelus_dead
10-19-2009, 01:06 PM
It's still worth reducing the fort on these mobs by 25%
How's it worth it? The cost to get that reduction is +33% spellpoint costs for the casters, -2 attack and saving throws for the melees, and gimping the monk through the majority of content.


Also you left out the orthon in part 1 of tod who isn't immune to curses.
Does anyone care about it?


In addition - all the examples you give would benefit from a 25% more effective Harm landing on them if the cleric isn't doing anything else (e.g. Harry cleric dps).
How often do Clerics Harm a Pit Fiend, especially knowing what their Will saves are?

MDS_Geist
10-19-2009, 01:09 PM
Thanks for posting about the Monk and handwrap changes Eladrin, good stuff!

Forgive me for asking if you have answered it elsewhere, but I haven't seen (or noticed since my monk on Lammania lacks the gear) anything about thinks like the spectral gloves or the destruction effect on DT armor working with handwraps. Will that also be fixed?

Shima-ra
10-19-2009, 04:00 PM
Ghost touch on spectral gloves works now.

I dont know about destruction on the DT tho

MDS_Geist
10-19-2009, 04:17 PM
Ghost touch on spectral gloves works now.

I dont know about destruction on the DT tho

Fantastic, thanks!

QuantumFX
10-19-2009, 06:22 PM
Checked this on Sunday and have been a slacker on posting this:
Weighted still does not affect Stunning Fist DCs.

KKDragonLord
10-21-2009, 01:59 PM
Checked this on Sunday and have been a slacker on posting this:
Weighted still does not affect Stunning Fist DCs.

Hey Eladrin, are there any plans for fixing this and a few other monk issues (such as slow fall not working at low levels) in the foreseeable future?