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View Full Version : Fix the difficulty of Shavarath quests (Weapon Shipment!)



Angelus_dead
10-10-2009, 07:34 PM
I suggest that the level 19 quests in Shavarath be adjusted so that their difficulty is higher than that of the level 17 Reaver Refuge quests. Weapons Shipment is the most serious offender, as it needs the monster assault increased in intensity by 3x to 5x, but they all could use work. (The XP might then be increased as well)

Do I need to go into the details of exactly how the Shav quests are insufficiently difficult? Just imagine some random average player on his random average character (level 17-19). You offer him $100 if he can beat a Refuge quest or Shav quest in one try without partying with another player. What quest is he more likely to succeed with?

I'm not talking about the expert solo-artists or characters built exactly right to match a quest. For most characters and most players, it would take a minor miracle to solo Enter The Kobold or Prey on the Hunter, and Monastery would require limited builds and doing exactly the right tricks. But Weapons Shipment, Sins, or Wrath of the Flame? No big deal; I'd be surprised if they haven't been beaten by level 15 and 14 parties yet. Only New Invasion has a rather hard fight, but it has its own problems.

PS. I didn't check them on Lamania, but based on the notes I wouldn't guess they changed.

sirgog
10-10-2009, 09:29 PM
Wrath of the Flame is also far too easy. I took a level 17-18 group in there on Elite (noone had done it on Elite before) in the first week of Mod 9, we beat it with no resource usage at all and without any fights being ugly.

Enter the Kobold is harder on Normal than Wrath is on Elite.


My suggestion: Change the level of the two short quests down to 17 (make no changes to the actual content of the quests).

Angelus_dead
10-11-2009, 10:54 AM
(make no changes to the actual content of the quests).
You'd still want the pacing to be increased so that there's hardly any of that standing around waiting.

I'll also give the devs a suggestion for Sins of Attrition:
The end bosses should be strong enough that attacking them without finding the weakness will cause a significant chance of failure (or at least a painful 5+ minute fight)

And a general suggestion:
Given how Invisibility was just buffed, maybe some Shav enemies should cast Detect Invis...

sirgog
10-11-2009, 11:12 AM
You'd still want the pacing to be increased so that there's hardly any of that standing around waiting.

.

True, forgot about that, haven't farmed Shipment yet

Dirac
10-11-2009, 11:40 AM
I agree in the difficulty descrepancy between the Reaver's Refuge quests and the MOD 9 side quests. I think the bad design is with the RR quests. On Normal, a group of competent adults with moderately equiped characters should have a good chance of completing the dungeon without wipes/re-enters the first time they encounter the dungeon. The RR quests don't do a good job of satisfying that condition. I don't mind a dungeon here or there that is beyond that, but I have real problems when an entire MOD (or even most of a MOD) is like that.

I won't argue with weapons shipment being too easy. I don't see a big deal in leaving it alone. If some quests are harder, then some can be easier. If you want to mess with it, change hard/elite.

Better is not to change anything until there are more level 17-18 quests for casual players. One problem with this latest mod is that even casual players without very good equipment have a capped character and would like to play the new content. It is good to have at least a couple quests they can do, instead of saying, "Well, play old content for a few more months, and when you get level 19 you can probably handle the new stuff."

Angelus_dead
10-11-2009, 07:55 PM
I agree in the difficulty descrepancy between the Reaver's Refuge quests and the MOD 9 side quests. I think the bad design is with the RR quests.
One could easily make a case that the final encounter in all four Reaver Refuge quests is too difficult compared to the dungeon that preceded it.

But I think that even if you ignore comparisons to Reaver's Refuge, most of the Shav quests are still a bit too easy. Like in Sins of Attrition, is there any reason to bother trying to solve that side puzzle to weaken the boss? No, none at all- passing more mobs to reach those side goals would be harder than the entire boss fight. In New Invasion, there's a 90 minute time limit, which is a joke because even a slow party probably reaches the end in 30. (And for parties to intentionally leave some players outside of the boss fight is another indication of a flaw).

And while I'm making suggestions, it would be nice if instead of every generic Orthon and Barbazu being the same, maybe 20% of them had alternate training like anti-Paladin, Ranger, or even caster. That would add both complexity and difficulty to Shav quests, particularly Iron Maw and Sins, which are packed full of those things.

Dirac
10-12-2009, 09:27 AM
And while I'm making suggestions, it would be nice if instead of every generic Orthon and Barbazu being the same, maybe 20% of them had alternate training like anti-Paladin, Ranger, or even caster. That would add both complexity and difficulty to Shav quests, particularly Iron Maw and Sins, which are packed full of those things.

This is a fantastic idea.

Zenako
10-12-2009, 09:41 AM
AD you are missing the point some others have made. The challenge level of the quests is being targeted for "normal" players, not the high end have oodles of Raid crafted gear, we own everything crowd. Will Elite players be pushed hard by those quests. Nope. Will normal players be pushed hard...you betcha.

RR was characterized by having so so encounters/challenges up until the last fight in each one. That last boss type fight was immensely more difficult than the rest of the Dungeon typicially. The Battlefield quests are more spread out, with increased difficulty along the way, and an end fight that is a bit tougher, but not the huge jump seen in RR quests.

Just like the 5 new quests in the Harbor on Lamania, some of them will be a cakewalk for Elite groups. Others will simple own groups without certain gear or skills. It looks like the the quests coming up that will give Elite groups a hard time are the EPIC ones (that is unless all those people running them now whine and complain about them being toooo haarrdd!.)

Angelus_dead
10-12-2009, 02:35 PM
AD you are missing the point some others have made.
That is untrue in two separate ways.


Will normal players be pushed hard...you betcha.
As already explained above, that is exactly untrue.

The primary offenders are Weapons Shipment and Wrath of the Flame. They do NOT provide an experience that a normal player would categorize as "pushing hard". Not only are they easier than all level 17 quests, I could also pick quests of level 16, 14 and maybe even 12 that are arguably more difficult.

There are some other flaws in the Shavarath difficulty, such as one ending for Genesis Point that is way harder than the others, but it looks like the topic of this thread is the most important one.

Thrudh
10-13-2009, 10:49 PM
I have not done Wrath of the Flame yet. Weapons Shipment is indeed too easy... at the last room, they need to spawn much faster... it's a snooze fest...

I disagree that Sins or Bastion are "easy"... I have party wiped a couple of times in both of those with a "normal" PUG...

Jay203
10-13-2009, 11:03 PM
nerf blade barrier :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: