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View Full Version : Epic Crafting is an Epic fail? Or no?



ariel7
10-10-2009, 04:58 PM
SimVerg has compiled a list of Epic crafting options. I hope everyone is doing the +1 rep to him for doing so. It is a great help to the entire DDO community.

That said, here's the list. ( http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2473754&postcount=1 )

Colorless
(20 Quest)
+6 stat

(25 Quest + 5 Raid)
+1 Exceptional Stat

Yellow(30 Quest)

Spell Focus:School
Proof Against Poison
Blindness Immunity
Disease Immunity
Fear Immunity
Underwater Action
Featherfall
Resist 4
Protect 4
GFL
Wizardry 6

Red

(20 quest)
(adds this property to your weapon)
Adamantine
Silver
Cold Iron
Byeshk
Crystal(new type)

(30 Quest)
(adds this property to your weapon)
Good
Evil
Lawful
Chaotic

(15 Raid)
+7 enhancement

Blue

(30 Quest)
15% ASF
Toughness(20 hp, doesn't open enhancements, doesn't stack with Minos)
+2 luck(skill and save)
+2 max dex bonus
Heavy Fort
+4 Natural Armor

(15 Raid)
+7 Enhancement




From hearing Shade describe his time in the quest:
http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2475470&postcount=2


Seriously epic crafting is garbage and incredibly not worth the time. I don't consider it an epic fail, but you're looking at a guy who would prefer to only run raids and who wants 4 green steel accessories on a couple of characters. (rocking 3 on one now) I'm probably doing epic once just for shards and giggles, but....it is incredbily not worth my time to do it. Please tell me there is more to epic crafting then +2 to hit (over a +5 weapon) and the bad thing is, at least as I understand it, it only applies to weapons from that area itself. Are you really running with only level 20s to pimp out a telekenisis sword? Is it worth all that grinding to put greater false life on a greenblade?

POSSIBLY if this is usable for shroud items, rock on. But....I'm not a fan at this point.

That said I absolutely love everything else I'm hearing about update 1, I think it is fun and exciting. And I will say for the record there are quite possibly things I'm not understanding fully or correctly about the system that would change my mind.

I'll grind, but not without a sufficient reward.

Xenus_Paradox
10-10-2009, 05:32 PM
Epic Torc with FF, PaP, or diseaseNfear immunity would be very nice, though the difficulty needs to be adjusted.

LeLoric
10-10-2009, 05:48 PM
Remember the stats on the item themselves are upgraded also.

The crystals are just to add even more effects to the item.

Vahyor
10-10-2009, 06:33 PM
I'm thinking a fair number of people are going to want their epic bloodstone as well.

Nyvn
10-10-2009, 06:37 PM
Remember the stats on the item themselves are upgraded also.

The crystals are just to add even more effects to the item.

http://home.comcast.net/~aseth/DDO/Whirlwind.JPG

-vs-

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Weapons/Whirlwind.jpg

+1 To Hit and Damage increase from 2d6 to 2d8 and Thundering 1d8 per critical hit?

Junts
10-10-2009, 06:38 PM
Yeah, cause adding statistics or something to the torc won't be insane

or making a silver chaosblade with holy damage (PS: if adding good actually adds a damage die, a holy silver chaosblade will beat a min2 in dps)

jmelanie7
10-10-2009, 06:45 PM
Yeah, cause adding statistics or something to the torc won't be insane

or making a silver chaosblade with holy damage (PS: if adding good actually adds a damage die, a holy silver chaosblade will beat a min2 in dps)

Of course it will, i am now very glad i made my kensai chaotic good :D

Shade
10-10-2009, 06:50 PM
http://home.comcast.net/~aseth/DDO/Whirlwind.JPG

-vs-

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Weapons/Whirlwind.jpg

+1 To Hit and Damage increase from 2d6 to 2d8 and Thundering 1d8 per critical hit?

What I don't get is how that item is upgraded, without putting any augment crystalss in it.. You just pop them in the altar by themselves with nothing for free upgrade or how that work?

Cuz you cannot run the desert menecarun itself on epic mode, thus you can just go out and find a epic whirlwind, you'd find the lvl8 version still.

SimVerg
10-10-2009, 07:04 PM
What I don't get is how that item is upgraded, without putting any augment crystalss in it.. You just pop them in the altar by themselves with nothing for free upgrade or how that work?

Cuz you cannot run the desert menecarun itself on epic mode, thus you can just go out and find a epic whirlwind, you'd find the lvl8 version still.

Scroll&Seal&Shard of Whirlwind + Whirlwind in one of the Altars(Change or the Epic one, I forget which Eladrin said) gives you the epic version of the item. The epic version may or may not have augment slots on it(Torq almost certainly won't).

edit: This at least is my current understanding of how it works. The "crafting" part of "epic crafting" is designed to be a palliative for the existing subparness of weapons/items(like Whirlwind, which won't see any use even in its epic form). Why they didn't just balance them in the transformation, I'm not sure.

Visty
10-10-2009, 07:05 PM
What I don't get is how that item is upgraded, without putting any augment crystalss in it.. You just pop them in the altar by themselves with nothing for free upgrade or how that work?

Cuz you cannot run the desert menecarun itself on epic mode, thus you can just go out and find a epic whirlwind, you'd find the lvl8 version still.

you need 20 quest tokens or soemthing like that and go to the altar at the twelve

read the original thread about it for detaailed way to do it

Nyvn
10-10-2009, 07:05 PM
I'm not sure I pulled the Epic version from Eladrin's post.

ariel7
10-10-2009, 08:44 PM
Epic Torc with FF, PaP, or diseaseNfear immunity would be very nice, though the difficulty needs to be adjusted.

I can see possibly upgrading two or three things:

Torq, greenblade, if you intend to use your cloak of zephyr or dustless boots a lot maybe? Bloodstone, sure we can make an excuse to make THAT better, or possibly greaves, but I don't really see the upgrades being all that worthwhile.

Upgrades that are ok. Let's see, from colorless the +6 stat might be handy, but the item itself has to be something you'd use ALL the time if you're getting an important stat from it. Yellow...maybe spell focus if you weren't planning to use a napkin. I suppose the passive featherfall or underwater action would be ok since you don't even have to switch one single item (like say head/bottle of air/featherfall) but that's a lot of work to save the push of one button. The immunities are much, much more nicely packaged in a concordant opposition item (especially on a torq user, you'd like to have as many things with a possibility to bring back those spell points as you could). The red level isn't really giving anything I'd pursue, various alignments and such. Imagine chaotic and lawful outsider on...a greenblade? Telekenetic longsword? I pretty much dismiss this tier out of hand. Blue tier, um, reduction to ASF might be ok for a WF, but 1 ap is so much easier. +2 luck ain't bad at all. But 20 (or less) 15 minute reavers isn't too much to go through either, and 20 chances at +3 tomes and other useful items all along the way. +2 dex? Does this stack with excepetional? Otherwise, 1 ring from tower, craft the dex on it. Heavy Fort/toughness, on a Minos or this item? Potentially useful, much more rewarding to go get 20 tapestries. +4 natural? Possibly if you have a defensive oriented character...oh, wait, on epic you're possibly gonna be a sink on your party. From the descriptions that Shade has given us, this might be workable for say, an intim. Actually I see it being quite nice for an intim, +4 undispellable ac, without haveing to keep reminding a raner to bark you. Woot. Not sure worth the epic battles to get it though...and...*** is an intim using from that area aside from a bloodstone anyways? Considering 2 tod rings and the dodge +3 on the dt armor, this means insight +4 on a weapon, so...Spectral gloves because your dex was odd and the +5 evens it out anyways? GS is better. Bramble-Casters? Leviks gives healing amp and str so more appealing, imho than a 1d8 guard...I mean +4 natural is nice, but there's almsot always a ranger, and they have pots in +4 so....really that epic grind for something so attainable (even superceeded by 95% of parties?) Pouch of jerky, use head instead.

I just don't see, or can't currently think of anything other than torq or greenblade or bloodstone or greaves (even then not always on anyways) that I would really want to upgrade, and the upgrades, in general, are not worth that grind. Again, imho.

Are there POSSIBILITIES of making something really awesome? You bet your sweet caboose there are. The debate we are having in here is awesome, in my opinion, because ideas are being shared and we are examining how to make out characters better and more optimally equipped and prepared. I'm still not sure I'm running these things through too far. I mean, I have greaves and a greenblade. My ranger wears the greaves more often than not, but that's until his greensteel boots are made and cleansed. My sorc with the greenblade...now that's a possibility. Except casters are potentially useless (re: Shade's post) in such a quest and that might make for difficulty in upgrading. BUT I suppose imagine a sorc reincarnated as a wizard reincarnated as a favored soul with an epic greenblade with, oh, I dunno, spell focus evocation for blade barriers and +2 luck. Yeah might be nice. Or might be a good spot to stick a charisma 6 on for spell points and such, freeing up a slot. Again, all things dependent on how epic the grind is to get such a thing. But what would my ranger do with the greaves? Underwater action and...+6...um...everything already covered in a better way. Um...+2 luck if those tiers are available? Great now I don't have to worry about switching an item to swim underwater to loot my chest and wait to decide who to pass a great power shard to....and...instead of using a mineral 2 boots I'll make out with +2 luck and I can wear my...arrowhead full time? Just don't see it being useful in my current gearing ideas, even with two reincarnations and all that jazz, the gear I have is the gear the future version of my ranger would have.

LeLoric
10-10-2009, 09:50 PM
Well consider something as innocent as the golden greaves. Right now its 15% striding and dr 3/-. Let's say the upgrade gives it something similar to 25% striding dr 5/-. And then if it had a yellow and a colorless slot. You could add say +6 dex and GFL to it. That makes for a pretty nice item imho. Sure I can get all these things from elsewhere but it would generally require at least two slots.

SteeleTrueheart
10-10-2009, 10:03 PM
Why are you going to do this? Simple. If you are wearing one of the items already, then you are going to want an epic version of it. And the 10 or 20 runs you do while you are farming the scroll/seal/shard will give you enough augment things to possibly think of running that 10 more runs you need to finish getting enough to do the augment process.

Imagine if the epic Torc gave Greater spell pen 9 and doubled the chance of the transform kinetic energy going off. Every caster would drool and farm. Then if it gave you even 1 slot they would do something with it.

What if the epic Seal of the earth gave +5 natural armor bonus? Or bloodstone becomes +8, +9 or +10 seeker?

What happens if mobs soon have DR/epic (hinted at by eladrin as some of the bosses will). Suddenly you will need a base +6 or greater enhanced weapon to get passed that DR. Guess what only these weapons give you that. You say your Greensteel will be better? How about if it is DR/20 Crystal, Epic?

Everyone will be doing this for something especially when they start doing other areas in future updates. Epic Chattering Ring/Seven fingered gloves anyone?

kingfisher
10-10-2009, 10:19 PM
how can adding anything to a bloodstone be bad?

ariel7
10-10-2009, 11:15 PM
how can adding anything to a bloodstone be bad?

Yes, but for most of the other items I don't see them in that class.


Why are you going to do this? Simple. If you are wearing one of the items already, then you are going to want an epic version of it. And the 10 or 20 runs you do while you are farming the scroll/seal/shard will give you enough augment things to possibly think of running that 10 more runs you need to finish getting enough to do the augment process.

Imagine if the epic Torc gave Greater spell pen 9 and doubled the chance of the transform kinetic energy going off. Every caster would drool and farm. Then if it gave you even 1 slot they would do something with it.

What if the epic Seal of the earth gave +5 natural armor bonus? Or bloodstone becomes +8, +9 or +10 seeker?

What happens if mobs soon have DR/epic (hinted at by eladrin as some of the bosses will). Suddenly you will need a base +6 or greater enhanced weapon to get passed that DR. Guess what only these weapons give you that. You say your Greensteel will be better? How about if it is DR/20 Crystal, Epic?

Everyone will be doing this for something especially when they start doing other areas in future updates. Epic Chattering Ring/Seven fingered gloves anyone?


Well consider something as innocent as the golden greaves. Right now its 15% striding and dr 3/-. Let's say the upgrade gives it something similar to 25% striding dr 5/-. And then if it had a yellow and a colorless slot. You could add say +6 dex and GFL to it. That makes for a pretty nice item imho. Sure I can get all these things from elsewhere but it would generally require at least two slots.

Hmm, got me thinking there. Not sure its GS level but getting close to, I suppose. You guys might be right and I just wasn't looking at it. I guess when epic version are better known I will get excited if it makes something more doable. Just hearing about the run through the quest, didn't make me want to do it repeatedly, again and again and again for something unless it was really nice, and most of the crafting portions weren't of that level. Epic versions might be, and the add-ons to be a nice enough bonus.



Thanks to everyone for the input. Epic tower of despair rings, or epic shroud loot for the win.

Junts
10-10-2009, 11:20 PM
Bramblecasters with a +6 stat, for that matter, alone would be an excellent item.

Greensteel items are great but also quite limited, since they don't provide a ton of important benefits .. further, shroud guard effects are useful primarily only for one particular type of character (mid-low ac melees) outside of concordant opp and min2, which are the only ones with slot saving benefits at all.

ariel7
10-11-2009, 02:04 AM
Bramblecasters with a +6 stat, for that matter, alone would be an excellent item.

Greensteel items are great but also quite limited, since they don't provide a ton of important benefits .. further, shroud guard effects are useful primarily only for one particular type of character (mid-low ac melees) outside of concordant opp and min2, which are the only ones with slot saving benefits at all.

It would, indeed, be an excellent item but not something I'd be willing to work for. Leviks, no epic +6 str and +20% healing amp, or a greensteel with 1d4, 1d4 and 1d8 damage as a guard, wisdom +6, a chance for hit points and spell points both, OR 1d4, 1d4 1d8 heavy fort, +5 deflection to ac, and stoneskin clickie, or give up 1d8 guard for greater regen in first item, OR 45 hit points or...well a lot of competing options. I'm not saying the items aren't worth anything, I'm not saying they are worth the types of grinding it appears to require. And again, maybe when we see the epic version of the items, all that changes. And as for shroud guard effect items only filling a roll for certain characters, then a demon queen guard with one type of guard, no chance to give back spell points hit points or provide other benefits will not only also be useful for the same characters, but if only giving +6 in addition to a stat, would be vastly inferior to the other item, imho. The tower rings really took a big bite out of +6 stat boosts being the end-gear pain it was, I think.

Auran82
10-11-2009, 02:10 AM
Pouch of Jerky with +2 Luck to save and skills?

mediocresurgeon
10-11-2009, 02:15 AM
Do epic items Bind To Character or do the Bind To Account?

ariel7
10-11-2009, 02:22 AM
Pouch of Jerky with +2 Luck to save and skills?

That would rock. It would more than adequately replace the head of good fortune. I can only speculate as to what the EPIC pouch of jerky would be. (HINT: Turbine get slim jim or some such to endorse lol) Maybe it would be 5 charges or csw or 3 of heal, but judging from the whirlwind who knows?

ariel7
10-11-2009, 02:23 AM
Do epic items Bind To Character or do the Bind To Account?

Almost assuredly character...but...if reincarnating.................

BurningDownTheHouse
10-11-2009, 05:14 AM
Almost assuredly character...but...if reincarnating.................

...you still have to wait until you are level 20 :)

Theboz
10-11-2009, 07:37 AM
My Dq ranger might love this. She has the torq, bramble casters, beef jerky, green blade and a few other things from the DQ.

It wil be nice to free up some room for other Future gear or rings from TOD.

maddmatt70
10-11-2009, 10:46 AM
Yeah, cause adding statistics or something to the torc won't be insane

or making a silver chaosblade with holy damage (PS: if adding good actually adds a damage die, a holy silver chaosblade will beat a min2 in dps)

It says good in the list Sim Verge compiled not holy so reduce your damage estimate a bit i.e. unclear if absolute good or pure good. The big question is how much the base item increases on epic level. The base whirlwind item increased so will the chaos blade or other weapons/items increase substantially? Likely the chaos blade has only one slot because it is a one hander (eladrin states one handers generally only have 1 slot). A very good point for the chaos blade is by the time somebody has run this 20 times will that character even fight devils anymore? I should have all the gear from TOD and Shroud on my main characters because 10-20 dq raid completion will be well into mod 10.

Junts
10-11-2009, 10:48 AM
It says good in the list Sim Verge compiled not holy so reduce your damage estimate a bit. The big question is how much the base item increases on epic level. The base whirlwind item increased so will the chaos blade or other weapons/items increase substantially? Likely the chaos blade has only one slot because it is a one hander (eladrin states one handers generally only have 1 slot). A very good point for the chaos blade is by the time somebody has run this 20 times will that character even fight devils anymore? I should have all the gear from TOD and Shroud on my main characters because 10-20 dq raid completion will be well into mod 10.



Keep in mind all the chaosblade has to do to equal am in2 for dps is break dr .. any damage aded would jsut be a huge perk.

With that said, do you really think you aren't going to run the hell out of tod until the cows come home for +4 tomes? really?

maddmatt70
10-11-2009, 10:52 AM
With that said, do you really think you aren't going to run the hell out of tod until the cows come home for +4 tomes? really?

Probably not unless for something specific like divine might 4. At this point +1 more to a stat is not worth very much. If the 20th end reward is like the shroud then you may see me and others running this for tomes otherwise meh.

Edit: I have already 3 or so elite completions, 15-20ish hard TOD completions, and 30-40ish normal TOD completions and I have seen 1 +4 tome drop so definitely not.

Junts
10-11-2009, 11:44 AM
Probably not unless for something specific like divine might 4. At this point +1 more to a stat is not worth very much. If the 20th end reward is like the shroud then you may see me and others running this for tomes otherwise meh.

Edit: I have already 3 or so elite completions, 15-20ish hard TOD completions, and 30-40ish normal TOD completions and I have seen 1 +4 tome drop so definitely not.


So I'm confused, if you aren't running tower or other devil-laden content, what exactly do you plan to do? run the dreaming dark quests and epic zawabis which features a lot of loot you constantly malign?

maddmatt70
10-11-2009, 05:49 PM
So I'm confused, if you aren't running tower or other devil-laden content, what exactly do you plan to do? run the dreaming dark quests and epic zawabis which features a lot of loot you constantly malign?

I actually picture TOD is probably like VOD or Hound but maybe we have to do 40 runs to get the rings we want instead of 20 because of the number of rings. I am a big believer that running Vod or Hound after 20 runs on a character is a waste of time which is unlike the shroud which is more of a forever grind.

The dreaming the dark quests for sure. I do not believe that I have maligned any of the loot in dreaming in the dark in a post although of course not all the loot will fit my characters - we will see. There is also alot of loot to be gotten for new characters of course which will undoubtedly occupy time. The zawabis quests I am unsure if from a grind perspective they will be worth it until we see a full list of the base epic items such as we saw with the Whirlwind. It will be fun playing a challenging quest (the Zawabis are hopefully) though loot or no loot.

Dark-Star
10-11-2009, 06:04 PM
A lot of the Dreaming Dark mobs are evil outsiders.

FluffyCalico
10-11-2009, 08:43 PM
I actually picture TOD is probably like VOD or Hound but maybe we have to do 40 runs to get the rings we want instead of 20 because of the number of rings. .

In TOD half the time 4-5 rings drop. Lots of people are already passing rings because they already have their 2.

maddmatt70
10-12-2009, 02:10 AM
In TOD half the time 4-5 rings drop. Lots of people are already passing rings because they already have their 2.

Yeah.. I overstated it although the group I have been running has been snakebit. Had several hard runs where we pulled 0 rings.