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View Full Version : New items on Lamania



Thriand
10-09-2009, 02:17 PM
Just finished the last part of the new quest series and pulled a couple of new named items out of the chest you need all the crests to get. Feel free to post anymore items people find.

http://i37.tinypic.com/tan0v8.jpg

http://i34.tinypic.com/mkynn7.jpg

http://i35.tinypic.com/2cnea1f.jpg

http://i34.tinypic.com/2qajlht.jpg

http://i34.tinypic.com/2itsld4.jpg

http://i35.tinypic.com/14mrg5s.jpg

rimble
10-09-2009, 02:18 PM
Fancy robe. Stop screwing around and go find my handwraps.

Thriand
10-09-2009, 02:19 PM
not really a new item but the titan cookies got an interesting change

http://i35.tinypic.com/wgyys2.jpg

Xaearth
10-09-2009, 02:21 PM
"Suppressed Power"?
More crafting in our future?

Oreg
10-09-2009, 02:22 PM
I like both of those....

smatt
10-09-2009, 02:27 PM
not really a new item but the titan cookies got an interesting change

http://i35.tinypic.com/wgyys2.jpg


Oh that's nice..... I have bunches of those laying around....

SimVerg
10-09-2009, 02:32 PM
not really a new item but the titan cookies got an interesting change

http://i35.tinypic.com/wgyys2.jpg

Shade finally gets his 80+ Strength.

edit: Should also note that all weapons with the transmuting property now have metalline instead.

Tyrande
10-09-2009, 02:33 PM
Just finished the last part of the new quest series and pulled this named robe out of the chest you need all the crests to get. Feel free to post anymore items people find.



I noticed that it is bound to account. That means it can be transferred to another character or another character in another incarnation.

IMHO, it looks better on an elven female character because of their figures with the new hair tonics. I gotta try it.

Thriand
10-09-2009, 02:40 PM
I noticed that it is bound to account. That means it can be transferred to another character or another character in another incarnation.

IMHO, it looks better on an elven female character because of their figures with the new hair tonics. I gotta try it.

it binds on acquire, but all items you possess transfer on reincarnation

J1NG
10-09-2009, 02:46 PM
Fancy robe. Stop screwing around and go find my handwraps.

Looking in Necro II now, but just reached the Shadow King tomb and having trouble doing it solo with two hirelings... >.<

J1NG

Shandi
10-09-2009, 02:47 PM
holy **** that robe is really nice. Imma be running for one of those things

Bladedge
10-09-2009, 02:49 PM
Wounder when are the Devs gonna let us convert items like that in to Docent forms for WF.

Go to Stone of change drop in Masterwork Docent + Meatbag Armor = Docent of Former MeatBag Armor

Barumar
10-09-2009, 02:53 PM
Just finished the last part of the new quest series and pulled this named robe out of the chest you need all the crests to get. Feel free to post anymore items people find.

http://i37.tinypic.com/tan0v8.jpg

http://i34.tinypic.com/mkynn7.jpg

AWESOME Robe - will have to get one for my Sorcy!

One problem for you though, it TOTALLY clashes with your new hair color.

Barumar

Thriand
10-09-2009, 02:55 PM
AWESOME Robe - will have to get one for my Sorcy!

One problem for you though, it TOTALLY clashes with your new hair color.

Barumar

heh, yeah that was my screw around with the store color choice when lamania first came out. I would never have that color on the live servers

Bladedge
10-09-2009, 02:58 PM
At least its a new robe skin (I could be wrong) and not a rehash of a 3 year recycled skin.

Oreg
10-09-2009, 02:58 PM
heh, yeah that was my screw around with the store color choice when lamania first came out. I would never hav that color on the live servers



Liar. You know you are wearing fuscia garters under that robe....

Shandi
10-09-2009, 03:29 PM
lol :D i wonder what else is hiding for us to discover

juniorpfactors
10-09-2009, 03:36 PM
cant see pics, what does the robe do?

jrp

Shandi
10-09-2009, 03:38 PM
3 clicks of Superior Inferno 9 (50% fire damage)
Combustion 9 permanent (20% Fire damage)
Feather Falling permanent
Fire Lore
Evocation Focus
Suppressed Power - basically some kind of crafting perhaps to make it better

Memnir
10-09-2009, 03:41 PM
cant see pics, what does the robe do?

jrpSuperior Inferno 9 clickie (x3)
Evocation Focus (+1)
Combustion IX
Feather Fall
Suppressed Power (robe has not revealed all it's powers at this time)

And it looks pretty kick-ass. Hope it comes in Docent Flavor.

Shandi
10-09-2009, 03:43 PM
it should... hopefully - I mean there is the docent of acid to counter the robe of acid but there was no docent of fire to counter the robe of fire was there?

juniorpfactors
10-09-2009, 03:44 PM
Superior Inferno 9 clickie (x3)
Evocation Focus (+1)
Combustion IX
Feather Fall
Suppressed Power (robe has not revealed all it's powers at this time)

And it looks pretty kick-ass. Hope it comes in Docent Flavor.

thanks guys, damn office blocks all the good stuff now...grr

could be interesting, evocation focus wont stack with napkin, could use it as a clickie until the suppressed combination is figured out

jrp

Thriand
10-09-2009, 04:02 PM
Just found two more items from the same chest
http://i35.tinypic.com/2cnea1f.jpg
http://i34.tinypic.com/2qajlht.jpg

Didn't have a WF to see what the docent looks like but should have screen shots of the armor soon

HeavenlyCloud
10-09-2009, 04:08 PM
Oops didn't see this thread ;).

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a100/Defclone/ScreenShot00686.jpg

Baahb3
10-09-2009, 04:13 PM
Notice the staff does Slash, Pierce and bludgeoning damage....

HeavenlyCloud
10-09-2009, 04:14 PM
Notice the staff does Slash, Pierce and bludgeoning damage....

Yep first thing we noticed :D kinda cool.

rimble
10-09-2009, 04:17 PM
Yep first thing we noticed :D kinda cool.

Crit x3...is that reflecting being augmented by some of your feats or abilities, or is it inherent to the weapon? I never thought to look if your Feats/Enhancements are reflected in that item window or not--but as a Bard I'm not sure what it could be reflecting in the first place, so my guess is it's inherent.

The flavor text sort of hints that there might be various versions of this staff...

HeavenlyCloud
10-09-2009, 04:26 PM
Crit x3...is that reflecting being augmented by some of your feats or abilities, or is it inherent to the weapon? I never thought to look if your Feats/Enhancements are reflected in that item window or not--but as a Bard I'm not sure what it could be reflecting in the first place, so my guess is it's inherent.

The flavor text sort of hints that there might be various versions of this staff...

It's from the staff.

lanthan
10-09-2009, 04:27 PM
and it has 1d10 base dmg.

I wonder if suppressed potential means it can have slots added to it?

Thriand
10-09-2009, 04:27 PM
even more found

http://i34.tinypic.com/2itsld4.jpg

stazer
10-09-2009, 04:30 PM
Superior stability...wow...just...wow

rimble
10-09-2009, 04:31 PM
even more found

http://i34.tinypic.com/2itsld4.jpg

I don't know what to make of that...

Superior Stability, yowza...

Adamantine AND Mithral, hmmm...

DR is 7...+3...+1...? 11? Or just 10 (if the Adamantine is reflected in the DR already)?

HeavenlyCloud
10-09-2009, 04:32 PM
Thats a nice shield.

Thriand
10-09-2009, 04:35 PM
I don't know what to make of that...

Superior Stability, yowza...

Adamantine AND Mithral, hmmm...

DR is 7...+3...+1...? 11? Or just 10 (if the Adamantine is reflected in the DR already)?

I don't know why it is even adamantine as the DR 1/ shouldn't stack with the DR 3/- anyway.

Eladrin
10-09-2009, 04:37 PM
I don't know why it is even adamantine as the DR 1/ shouldn't stack with the DR 3/- anyway.
Increases the hardness and durability of the shield, and lets you shield-bash golems. ;)

rimble
10-09-2009, 04:38 PM
Increases the hardness and durability of the shield, and lets you shield-bash golems. ;)

You got Adamantine in my Mithral!

You got Mithral in my Adamantine!

Adamithral! The great taste that goes together.

HeavenlyCloud
10-09-2009, 04:49 PM
Eladrin > Thriand :p

Aesop
10-09-2009, 04:55 PM
can someone not Neutral even wear Stability items?

if not then the Resistance and Prot +4 are superfulous as the Stability over rides them

Aesop

Shandi
10-09-2009, 04:57 PM
you can wear them you just don't benefit from it

Angelus_dead
10-09-2009, 04:57 PM
I don't know why it is even adamantine
Because that's a black metal while mithral is white.

Memnir
10-09-2009, 04:59 PM
can someone not Neutral even wear Stability items?

if not then the Resistance and Prot +4 are superfulous as the Stability over rides them

AesopI've never had a problem equipping a Stability item on a non- true neutral, there is just no benifit gained. And, there is no UMD number to overcome alignment restrictions (if any)... so I'd say it's just fine for non-TN characters to use, just that TN characters will get more out of it.

My bard wants one! :D

Zyklon
10-09-2009, 05:01 PM
http://i35.tinypic.com/wgyys2.jpg


This is nice, but I wish they wouldn't change existing items.
New drops/turn-ins fine.
Plus, I'm betting that this change will NOT be in the release notes.

Eladrin
10-09-2009, 05:02 PM
This is nice, but I wish they wouldn't change existing items.
New drops/turn-ins fine.
Plus, I'm betting that this change will NOT be in the release notes.
We change the holiday cookies every year.

HeavenlyCloud
10-09-2009, 05:04 PM
We change the holiday cookies every year.

I heard a rumor about a new cookie is that true? Mad God Cookie.

Aesop
10-09-2009, 05:05 PM
I heard a rumor about a new cookie is that true? Mad God Cookie.

yeah but its a little blah


gods I couldn't resist

totmacher
10-09-2009, 05:06 PM
hamfather cookie!! the ham gods demand bacon pastries!!!! you can't fight it devs!!!

HeavenlyCloud
10-09-2009, 05:08 PM
yeah but its a little blah


gods I couldn't resist

+1 :p

ArkoHighStar
10-09-2009, 05:30 PM
I demand a jello cube

WeaselKing
10-09-2009, 05:35 PM
I demand a jello cube

As long as its dreamy.

SableShadow
10-09-2009, 07:54 PM
http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo230/theluckyjosh/Mod%2010/Mod10_DreamEdge.jpg?t=1255144681

http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo230/theluckyjosh/Mod%2010/mod10_deathsTouch.jpg?t=1255144713

Shade
10-09-2009, 09:13 PM
I don't know what to make of that...

Superior Stability, yowza...

Adamantine AND Mithral, hmmm...

DR is 7...+3...+1...? 11? Or just 10 (if the Adamantine is reflected in the DR already)?

Unless they changed the way DR is displayed on shields.. It's pathetically weak DR wise vs other shields of that level..

Standard is DR7 (2 for being heavy, 5 enhancement) .. That's all it has.

Loriks and Leviks are both DR15, 8 points superior.

The DR3/- is pretty weak as for anyone using a shield should have more anyways and wouldn't stack. Barbarians get DR9/-, Defender Fighters get DR6/-.. And Paladins wouldnt care for it, because they cannot be true neutral.

AC wise it's pretty weak too. +1 over prot 5 for TN. Yet Leviks Defender with set provides the same AC (-1 Defelection, +5 Insight vs Insight +4 max otherwise), with a much higher dr, and a heal proc, for any alignment.

Poorly designed item. You'd think a shield with 35 hardness would have some decent block DR.

I'm happy superior stability made it into the game tho. Just hope to see it on a non-shield.

MrCow
10-09-2009, 10:10 PM
Poorly designed item. You'd think a shield with 35 hardness would have some decent block DR.

It is still a beautiful shield in some situations, like shield-blocking for Concordant Opposition or Convert Kinetic Energy to go off. You usually want a shield with as low ASF as possible and yet be highly durable to last if you are doing long quests (such as when Oddlived did a soloing of Visions of Destruction).

On a side note, I bet this shield would also get some good longevity in Epic difficulty, due to the monster CR to hardness difference in a lot of the standard gear players use.

Angelus_dead
10-09-2009, 10:49 PM
Just pointing out to people who might not have read the pictures closely:
Both the quarterstaff and kama are 3x crit weapons, contrary to how monks are normally stuck at 2x crit.

QuantumFX
10-09-2009, 11:01 PM
Just pointing out to people who might not have read the pictures closely:
Both the quarterstaff and kama are 3x crit weapons, contrary to how monks are normally stuck at 2x crit.

Light and Darkness also provides +1 more AC than other +5 Heavy Shields. (Shield Bonus +8)

Jay203
10-09-2009, 11:10 PM
they look yummy~ ;);););)

deadkitty
10-09-2009, 11:38 PM
Unless they changed the way DR is displayed on shields.. It's pathetically weak DR wise vs other shields of that level..

Standard is DR7 (2 for being heavy, 5 enhancement) .. That's all it has.

Loriks and Leviks are both DR15, 8 points superior.

The DR3/- is pretty weak as for anyone using a shield should have more anyways and wouldn't stack. Barbarians get DR9/-, Defender Fighters get DR6/-.. And Paladins wouldnt care for it, because they cannot be true neutral.

AC wise it's pretty weak too. +1 over prot 5 for TN. Yet Leviks Defender with set provides the same AC (-1 Defelection, +5 Insight vs Insight +4 max otherwise), with a much higher dr, and a heal proc, for any alignment.

Poorly designed item. You'd think a shield with 35 hardness would have some decent block DR.

I'm happy superior stability made it into the game tho. Just hope to see it on a non-shield.

Most likley to used by bards and clerics. Possibly casters? Its more for the options on the sheild over the DR. If you need DR swap sheilds... pretty simple. IMO its a great sheild and am very depressed about just turning in my sheild set for the fanion :(

Solmage
10-10-2009, 03:14 AM
3 clicks of Superior Inferno 9 (50% fire damage)
Combustion 9 permanent (20% Fire damage)
Feather Falling permanent
Fire Lore
Evocation Focus
Suppressed Power - basically some kind of crafting perhaps to make it better

I just hope the supressed power is something along the lines of...

Superior Fire Lore (I mean, really, regular lvl 4 fire lore on a level 18 item? Gee.. thanks.. that'll be ... nice)

Greater Evocation Focus (To be honest, anything that raises evocation spell DCs isn't overpowered at all, and offering the same +1 everyone and their moms has either in the Reaver's cloak or in a level 7 bracer is also fairly underwhelming)

Superior Combustion 7 (I mean, sup combustion 20%? You mean a level 1 ability? are you serious) - because someone using this robe will obviously be all about fire damage, and so they'll need that for DBFs.

I mean, one's loosing +5 resist, +1 exceptional stat or a neat guard, and superior glaciation 8/superior combustion 7 or greater spell pen 8 by using this robe, so I just hope we can make it into a really powerful item for fire mages.

Aussieee
10-10-2009, 03:21 AM
Has anyone found the handwraps yet? I serously have to say I think devs try to punish monks why? Everybody know we hate Necro ,well ok I like it for the first hour after that is same old thing over and over again. Making people farm in necro its just cruel. Guess woudn't be too bad it they have put it in cursed crypt as the quest is used for other named items and upgrade of trinket but part 2.... come on now!!!

manfredshw
10-10-2009, 03:54 AM
Has anyone found the handwraps yet? I serously have to say I think devs try to punish monks why? Everybody know we hate Necro ,well ok I like it for the first hour after that is same old thing over and over again. Making people farm in necro its just cruel. Guess woudn't be too bad it they have put it in cursed crypt as the quest is used for other named items and upgrade of trinket but part 2.... come on now!!!


thank you for your kindly understanding, as I monk I should say.

But note my words, monk do not need to nerf, we are perma-nerfed.

Junts
10-10-2009, 04:09 AM
Has anyone found the handwraps yet? I serously have to say I think devs try to punish monks why? Everybody know we hate Necro ,well ok I like it for the first hour after that is same old thing over and over again. Making people farm in necro its just cruel. Guess woudn't be too bad it they have put it in cursed crypt as the quest is used for other named items and upgrade of trinket but part 2.... come on now!!!

I have heard that shadow crypt series was changed to not require reflagging, though I have not tested .. if so, that would make it a lot more managable a farm, as shadow crypt is fast, easy, and -tremendous- exp at level.

wemery73
10-10-2009, 04:14 AM
http://i34.tinypic.com/2qajlht.jpg

Anyone have a WF to see what the docent looks like ?

Gum
10-10-2009, 05:58 AM
Daggum that sickle looks sexy :eek: True neutral and no neg lvl aye?

J1NG
10-10-2009, 06:43 AM
Quick thing about the Shadow series, I dunno what it is that allows you to not require flagging, but when I tried to repeat the quest, all of it got reset. So if there's a quicker way, let me know, I'll be farming until I get these elusive wraps now.

Anyone wanna bet that they forgot to add them in again...? ;) :p

I'd love that Phoenix robe on my Drow Sorc, so her style. :)

J1NG

Aussieee
10-10-2009, 12:07 PM
I have heard that shadow crypt series was changed to not require reflagging, though I have not tested .. if so, that would make it a lot more managable a farm, as shadow crypt is fast, easy, and -tremendous- exp at level.

I can open the quest as it was anyways. My problem is Necropolis gets very old very fast after spending an hour there. It aways has got a good amount of xp. I aways run in on every charachter at apropriate level 1 time on elite! Nobody wants to go back there.......That quest makes me dizzy,I have my friends most of the times carry my stone to the end cause my head starts hurting from so many turns. I can't imagine people wanting to farm it that much just cause it has 1 worth item in it. Again if it was in cursed crypt makes it alot better because you have other items you might get and you can update your trinket.

If you ask me Deleras or CO6 would be alot better idea for those wraps.

Aussieee
10-10-2009, 12:09 PM
Quick thing about the Shadow series, I dunno what it is that allows you to not require flagging, but when I tried to repeat the quest, all of it got reset. So if there's a quicker way, let me know, I'll be farming until I get these elusive wraps now.

Anyone wanna bet that they forgot to add them in again...? ;) :p

I'd love that Phoenix robe on my Drow Sorc, so her style. :)

J1NG

Get one more with you,open quest and switch it has aways worked for me;)
I have an opener if you wanna toss me your alts we can do it later.

J1NG
10-10-2009, 12:38 PM
Get one more with you,open quest and switch it has aways worked for me;)
I have an opener if you wanna toss me your alts we can do it later.

Only one toon name in beta: Yijing (Level 20 Halfling Monk)

I get a feeling it's gonna be left outta the loot table again, they already messed up the Shadow King scarab... :p

J1NG

Dark-Star
10-10-2009, 02:42 PM
http://i34.tinypic.com/2qajlht.jpg

Anyone have a WF to see what the docent looks like ?


It's bright pink, we pulled one late last night. Check the Pretty Princess thread for a SS.

lanthan
10-10-2009, 02:58 PM
http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo230/theluckyjosh/Mod%2010/Mod10_DreamEdge.jpg?t=1255144681


http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/1994/dreamedge.jpg

Note that mine has vicious instead of parrying and its bound to account not character when you loot it.

SableShadow
10-10-2009, 03:01 PM
Note that mine has vicious instead of parrying and its bound to account not character when you loot it.

Curiouser and curiouser. :eek:

Visty
10-10-2009, 03:03 PM
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/1994/dreamedge.jpg

Note that mine has vicious instead of parrying and its bound to account not character when you loot it.

his doesnt say bound on cahr, it says bound on aquire, that can be both :p

but interesting still

Gornin
10-10-2009, 03:05 PM
That is the first time I have seen vampirism in the game. Does anyone know what it does?

I was under the impression that bodyfeeder was their version of vampirism.

And is there normal and greater versions of it?

Shandi
10-10-2009, 03:15 PM
vampirism is on the khopesh from the DQ, this isnt the first item with it. it converts a small amount of damage done when you swing it to your own HP

Visty
10-10-2009, 03:15 PM
That is the first time I have seen vampirism in the game. Does anyone know what it does?

I was under the impression that bodyfeeder was their version of vampirism.

And is there normal and greater versions of it?

the queen rade has a kopesh with vampirism too

its 1d3hp on hit (or 1hp or 2, dunno the exact number)

Xenus_Paradox
10-10-2009, 03:16 PM
Chaosblade has Lesser Vampirism, and where Bodyfeeder grants 15 THP on a critical hit, Lesser Vampirism heals 1 point of damage on every hit.

Angelus_dead
10-10-2009, 03:24 PM
That is the first time I have seen vampirism in the game. Does anyone know what it does?
You heal 1 hp each time you damage something with your weapon, just like its always done since module 3.

Gornin
10-10-2009, 03:55 PM
Thanks for the responses.

So, it is basically a power reserved for named/raid loot.

Wish it was in the normal loot tables with a lesser/norm/grtr version. /Sigh

Depravity
10-10-2009, 04:22 PM
his doesnt say bound on cahr, it says bound on aquire, that can be both :p

but interesting still

I was running sharn syndicate and noticed that all my bound rewards were bound to account rather than character. My latest flesh render visor was also bound to account. This may be the new pattern on non-raid named/bound loot.

I actually kind of like it - makes things hard for plat farmers, but there's still a good chance somebody in party can use that piece, either for themselves or an alt.

Xenus_Paradox
10-10-2009, 04:32 PM
Vicious bodyfeeder... drool...

Arleon
10-10-2009, 05:11 PM
I thought maybe the Vicious or Parrying depended on which monk path was taken; Light or Dark, but it's seems more likely that there is either two+ versions. Based on it's description that seems probable. Though two different versions of the same named weapon, makes me think it was just changed, but there was no update.....very curious.

sephiroth1084
10-10-2009, 05:13 PM
I'd love to see the upgraded versions of these. Or the realized potential versions!

If they all scale up to the maximum possible effects of the tiered stuff (Combustion-->Superior Combustion; Insight +1 to Insight +4, etc...) that would be awesome!

As it is, the items look pretty damn sweet!

SirShen
10-10-2009, 05:19 PM
http://i34.tinypic.com/2qajlht.jpg

Anyone have a WF to see what the docent looks like ?

I have a WF called Bothot on Lama.

Rollough
10-10-2009, 05:32 PM
Now if only they would offer "Phoenix" hair color in the store...

Vahyor
10-10-2009, 06:18 PM
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/1994/dreamedge.jpg

Note that mine has vicious instead of parrying and its bound to account not character when you loot it.

Followup on this, our group looted 3 more dream edges, and they have Shattermantle, Disruption, and Ghostly as the changing property... Looks like there's a wide variety of options.

We also got a rahl's staff with bleed on it, replacing the impact on the OP's screenshot

Depravity
10-10-2009, 07:13 PM
Nyvn put up a screenshot of an Epic Whirlwind in this thread (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=206654).

http://home.comcast.net/~aseth/DDO/Whirlwind.JPG

Now I'm really looking forward to seeing how the epic raid loot looks.

lanthan
10-10-2009, 09:57 PM
Followup on this, our group looted 3 more dream edges, and they have Shattermantle, Disruption, and Ghostly as the changing property... Looks like there's a wide variety of options.

We also got a rahl's staff with bleed on it, replacing the impact on the OP's screenshot

I have 2 more now one with absolute law (2d6 vs non lawful) and one with destruction.

Aussieee
10-10-2009, 11:44 PM
Yey found the named wraps on the first run from Shadow Crypt. Somebody said they will post a screenie. They drop from the optional chest so make sure to get all the gears.

O joy can't wait to farm that quest........wraps are ml8 btw with metaline and pure good I am so ready to kick some a$$ :D

Somebody looted a new dagger as well nothing impressing but I guess new.

lanthan
10-10-2009, 11:49 PM
Yey found the named wraps on the first run from Shadow Crypt. Somebody said they will post a screenie. They drop from the optional chest so make sure to get all the gears.

O joy can't wait to farm that quest........wraps are ml8 btw with metaline and pure good I am so ready to kick some a$$ :D

he is the SS.

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/1002/devouthandwraps.jpg

Aussieee
10-10-2009, 11:51 PM
he is the SS.

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/1002/devouthandwraps.jpg
did you get the screenie of the ss as well or want me to post it?

Junts
10-10-2009, 11:53 PM
anyone pulled metalline on handwraps in the random loot table as eladrin said could happen?

lanthan
10-10-2009, 11:57 PM
anyone pulled metalline on handwraps in the random loot table as eladrin said could happen?

I have not seen metalline yet but i have seen force and force burst on handwraps.

Junts
10-10-2009, 11:58 PM
So these are cool but better handwraps will be easily available (eg, metalline geob), cool cool.

The forces are a prefix, right?

lanthan
10-11-2009, 12:01 AM
yup they work just like flaming or frost. 1d6 for force and 1d6 plus 1d10 for 2x and so on on a crit for force burst. though the text is bugged atm and force burst only lists the dmg done a crit but does all the dmg.

Arkat
10-11-2009, 12:01 AM
The forces are a prefix, right?

Yes.

Forceburst Handwraps of Greater Construct Bane FTW!

Junts
10-11-2009, 12:11 AM
Yes.

Forceburst Handwraps of Greater Construct Bane FTW!

Would still rather have holy, what with it doing 1d6 more and burst not going off that much

since holy stacks with the 2d6 from holy burst ..

TreknaQudane
10-11-2009, 12:32 AM
he is the SS.

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/1002/devouthandwraps.jpg

And these are the only thing out of those chests that are bind to character :(

So are the weeping handwraps out of the captives....

What the heck is up with all the Bound to Character handwraps.

Aussieee
10-11-2009, 01:33 AM
And these are the only thing out of those chests that are bind to character :(

So are the weeping handwraps out of the captives....

What the heck is up with all the Bound to Character handwraps.
It's called no love for monks;)

Monkey_Archer
10-11-2009, 05:14 AM
he is the SS.

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/1002/devouthandwraps.jpg

All hail the mighty handwraps.... Greensteel step aside... monks have LEVEL 8 GEAR NOW!!!! :eek: ... :rolleyes:

ThrasherGT
10-11-2009, 06:21 AM
All hail the mighty handwraps.... Greensteel step aside... monks have LEVEL 8 GEAR NOW!!!! :eek: ... :rolleyes:

Now THAT made me giggle...........+1 rep for brightening My morning.........

Arkat
10-11-2009, 09:05 AM
since holy stacks with the 2d6 from holy burst ..

Holy Burst is reportedly NOT stacking with Holy. See the Ring crafting thread in the Crafting Discussion forum.

Arkat
10-11-2009, 09:07 AM
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/1002/devouthandwraps.jpg

Wow. A whole +2 huh?

Hopefully some better ones drop in random loot or as end rewards.

P.S. Those poor, poor Lawful Neutral monks. Lol!

Jefro
10-11-2009, 09:13 AM
It was probably downgraded from the original one that was suppose to come out of wrath of flame.

Visty
10-11-2009, 09:13 AM
Wow. A whole +2 huh?

Hopefully some better ones drop in random loot or as end rewards.

P.S. Those poor, poor Lawful Neutral monks. Lol!

you dont need to be good to use those wraps, check them again, no umd: 20

Nyvn
10-11-2009, 09:17 AM
you dont need to be good to use those wraps, check them again, no umd: 20

Doesn't that only show up if you need UMD to use the item? Any good character shouldn't see the umd 20.

Visty
10-11-2009, 09:33 AM
Doesn't that only show up if you need UMD to use the item? Any good character shouldn't see the umd 20.

only if it got changed on something europe doesnt have yet (well, might me mod10 :p but i doubt it)

lanthan
10-11-2009, 09:34 AM
Doesn't that only show up if you need UMD to use the item? Any good character shouldn't see the umd 20.

I could see the umd: 30 on the copy of dream edge with absolute law (requires lawful to equip) even though as a monk I was obviously lawful.

Vhlad
10-11-2009, 10:20 AM
he is the SS.

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/1002/devouthandwraps.jpg

These are the named wraps that were supposed to be in wrath of the flame? That's just terrible. I see why they wearnt included in that loot table now: +2 metalline of pure good ML 8 in a level 19 quest would have been sad, and silly.

If they were downgraded to fit better in the new location, well thanks for the nerf! Monks really needed it!

This doesn't help unarmed monks compete against greensteels at all. Heck, even if a mob has DR 15, a +5 greater bane handwrap is potentially better (7 higher to-hit, 1 less damage; add the right elemental burst or holy/anarchic/axiomatic and +2 metalline of pure good is gimpy unless DR is greater than 20).

I suppose if metaline is indeed added as a random prefix in the loot tables, I can at least look forward to some metalline greater banes.

But even so, this is disappointing. Was hoping to see some real end-game monk love with the named handwraps. There's a lot of ground to make up: +4 insight AC, holy, acid burst, keen, metalline, slicing, increased base weapon damage, along with +2 wisdom on the 2nd weapon Vs. +2 metalline of pure good.

And then monks have to use a ring slot for holy burst while other classes can grab +2 dex or 20% healing amp [or put acid blast on the 2nd greensteel and +2 wis on the ring, or just stick with 1 chattering ring]. Monks really lose a lot of AC by going handwraps over greensteel kamas, and do some sad DPS compared to a tempest ranger with greensteel dwarven axes or khopeshes.

I like my monk but when I'm filling raids I'm much happier to have barbs or rangers or fighters, or heck even paladins or rogues hit my lfms than monks. Sure monks have some decent party buffs (is the mana buff still 25% on lammania or did they nerf it?) but they last 1 minute, have a visually unclear buff radius, and deactivate combat expertise.

At least turbine can still make money selling the monk class for splash builds. Wisdom AC at level 1, evasion at level 2, 1 or 2 feats respectively. Good stuff. Beyond that? meh.

Needs some love. This wasnt it. ><

Junts
10-11-2009, 10:32 AM
Hate ot break this to you, Vhlad, but a monk with metalline of geob handwraps and holy/shock burst rings would substantially out-dps most ranger builds. There are enormous benefits to handwraps: huge base damage, insane attack speed (an ultimate wind stanced' handwrap monk has the same attacks/min as a tempest 3 ranger), lack of an offhand strength penalty (which really makes up a big part of the gap with the offhand weapon), and an ability to add extra d6 of damage matched only by the Knight of the Chalice (the outline above has 6d6 damage added per hit .. a min2 adds only 2d6+1d4 damage). Handwrap base damage is also substantially higher than most weapons. Even those handwraps would be 4d6 added on, which is pretty remarkable damage output.

Maxed out monk dps is not quite competitive with the very highest dps builds (good fbs, or kotc vs targets, etc) but it's very much in the high range if you build for it.

The real problem is that monk dps has been so bad for so long that a vast majority of monk builds are ac/kama specced and not designed for handwraps or high dps .. so even with these advantages, their dps may be effective and good, but it won't ever be great.

Vhlad
10-11-2009, 10:50 AM
Hate ot break this to you, Vhlad, but a monk with metalline of geob handwraps and holy/shock burst rings would substantially out-dps most ranger builds. Really? Run the numbers vs. a tempest str based dwarven ranger using min II dwarven axes (or WF using khopeshes) with favored enemy [and lightning II swaps when metalline is not needed] There are enormous benefits to handwraps: huge base damage [2d10/x2 handwaps vs 2d8/x3 dwarven axes], insane attack speed (an ultimate wind stanced' handwrap monk has the same attacks/min as a tempest 3 ranger), lack of an offhand strength penalty (which really makes up a big part of the gap with the offhand weapon), and an ability to add extra d6 of damage matched only by the Knight of the Chalice (the outline above has 6d6 damage added per hit .. a min2 adds only 2d6+1d4 damage). Handwrap base damage is also substantially higher than most weapons. Even those handwraps would be 4d6 added on, which is pretty remarkable damage output.

Maxed out monk dps is not quite competitive with the very highest dps builds (good fbs, or kotc vs targets, etc) but it's very much in the high range if you build for it.

The real problem is that monk dps has been so bad for so long that a vast majority of monk builds are ac/kama specced and not designed for handwraps or high dps .. so even with these advantages, their dps may be effective and good, but it won't ever be great.

As I wrote, you sacrifice a lot of AC to go handwraps. More still if you want to go high dps spec. Mine as well roll a frenzy barb if you're gunna dump AC like that.

lanthan
10-11-2009, 10:58 AM
Sure monks have some decent party buffs (is the mana buff still 25% on lammania or did they nerf it?) but they last 1 minute, have a small (and invisible) buff radius centered on yourself (i.e. cant target the casters to buff them, need to stop dps on the boss and run over), and they deactivate combat expertise.



monk party buffs can be targeted on people other than the monk. this is not new to lamannia it works on live right now.

Vhlad
10-11-2009, 11:01 AM
monk party buffs can be targeted on people other than the monk. this is not new to lamannia it works on live right now.

OOO, you are right! Seems I misstested that :p
TY!

Would be nice if we saw a radial animation for it, like other group buffs have.

Monkey_Archer
10-11-2009, 11:11 AM
As I wrote, you sacrifice a lot of AC to go handwraps. More still if you want to go high dps spec. Mine as well roll a frenzy barb if you're gunna dump AC like that.

My str based monk can self buff (bark pot/shield) to over 60 ac with handwraps equipped... No, thats not an untouchable 70+ that dex based ranger/monks can get, but its definately not useless. On top of that, i made alot of mistakes building my monk and could technically have gotten higher str and ac if i rerolled...

I agree that the named wraps are pretty weak, but at least we have something decent for pitfiends now... until the loot gen wraps start pouring out ;)

Vhlad
10-11-2009, 11:13 AM
My str based monk can self buff (bark pot/shield) to over 60 ac with handwraps equipped... No, thats not an untouchable 70+ that dex based ranger/monks can get, but its definately not useless. On top of that, i made alot of mistakes building my monk and could technically have gotten higher str and ac if i rerolled...

I agree that the named wraps are pretty weak, but at least we have something decent for pitfiends now... until the loot gen wraps start pouring out ;)

My str based ranger can self buff to over 60 AC (vs favored enemies) with dwarven axes equipped :p
Would be higher if I did I monk splash, but I kept him pure.

Junts
10-11-2009, 11:17 AM
Yep, and a dps monk is very competitive with your ranger in dps output .. though both are quite a ways behind a good kotc3 or fb3.

all those extra d6s and the sheer number of attacks .. a monk in ultimate wind got as many attacks as your tempest3 did before the last patch, adn the last patch took away one of your offhand attacks. it did not, however, take away one from monks (even though it said it did); monks had only 8 attacks before, not 9 as they thought we did, so we lost an attack we never had.

a level 20 monk in ultimate wind stance outputs something in the vicinity of 260 attacks per minute; a hasted tempest 3 is something around 20-25 attacks behidn that (I haven't seen the exact calibrations of patch 2, and monkey could probably attest to the difference), and that's a pretty large gap to make up.


The monk also has improved evasion, two useful static immunities, static sr thats high enough to be useful, abundant step, and feat flexibility beaten only by fighters. For example, its easy to make a halfling monk with dragonmarks, which can go a long way to ensuring survivability, but that's not an option for many other dps classes.

Is it better? Not necessarily

Is it worse? No, and that's the key.


its not mod8 anymore; its mod 9 going on 10, and your build is no longer a serious contender for top dps on ddo, even though it's still very, very good .. so are a lot of other things.

Strakeln
10-11-2009, 11:19 AM
As I wrote, you sacrifice a lot of AC to go handwraps. More still if you want to go high dps spec. Mine as well roll a frenzy barb if you're gunna dump AC like that.
Silly Fleshling. Insight +4 comes on Docents.

I'm still trying to figure out how to repackage those Raiments, though :mad:

Junts
10-11-2009, 11:20 AM
Silly Fleshling. Insight +4 comes on Docents.

I'm still trying to figure out how to repackage those Raiments, though :mad:



It also comes on dragontouched robes, which are vastly better than the rainments if you're making an insight 4 OR dodge 4 choice, which monks are.

Monkey_Archer
10-11-2009, 11:23 AM
My str based ranger can self buff to over 60 AC (vs favored enemies) with dwarven axes equipped :p
Would be higher if I did I monk splash, but I kept him pure.

your str based ranger could also buff my monk to over 65 :p

Vhlad
10-11-2009, 11:32 AM
Yep, and a dps monk is very competitive with your ranger in dps output .. though both are quite a ways behind a good kotc3 or fb3.

all those extra d6s and the sheer number of attacks .. a monk in ultimate wind got as many attacks as your tempest3 did before the last patch, adn the last patch took away one of your offhand attacks. it did not, however, take away one from monks (even though it said it did); monks had only 8 attacks before, not 9 as they thought we did, so we lost an attack we never had.

a level 20 monk in ultimate wind stance outputs something in the vicinity of 260 attacks per minute; a hasted tempest 3 is something around 20-25 attacks behidn that (I haven't seen the exact calibrations of patch 2, and monkey could probably attest to the difference), and that's a pretty large gap to make up.


The monk also has improved evasion, two useful static immunities, static sr thats high enough to be useful, abundant step, and feat flexibility beaten only by fighters. For example, its easy to make a halfling monk with dragonmarks, which can go a long way to ensuring survivability, but that's not an option for many other dps classes.

Is it better? Not necessarily

Is it worse? No, and that's the key.


its not mod8 anymore; its mod 9 going on 10, and your build is no longer a serious contender for top dps on ddo, even though it's still very, very good .. so are a lot of other things.

I do have a monk (http://my.ddo.com/character/thelanis/vhladxxxx/), which I enjoy, but that doesnt change the fact that when filling raids, I am not too excited to see monks hit my LFM. They are generally quite bad, and I am generally happier to fill a party with rangers, barbs, fighters, paladins, or rogues. My experiences pugging and seeing how groups fill suggest that most players feel the same way. Monks need some love, and the named handwraps that were touted as upcoming monk love are just very disappointing.

Mav145
10-11-2009, 11:49 AM
Are we sure that those are the monk-love handwraps or even the only handwraps that we are going to see?

Samadhi
10-11-2009, 11:52 AM
... but that doesnt change the fact that when filling raids, I am not too excited to see monks hit my LFM. They are generally quite bad...

I agree - but it is the same problem that there was with rangers for a long time too (and still plagues rogues). Everyone tried to niche the class into a finesse build (or these oddball wisdom builds) when it could and probably should be a Str build. The problem isn't with the class, given metalline wraps. The problem is bad players making bad build choices. (Godlike AC but no intimidate or DPS to back it up).

I have no doubt that a well built Str monk is going to perform awesomely, and eventually, just like with rangers, people will come around and start seeing that the Str build is the way to go. Until that time - judging the monk class by the number of retards rolling monks is a shortsighted way to view the class.

PS To your earlier post - you don't need to *dump* AC to go Str build by any stretch of the imagination. You can still get a decent AC but do some DPS in the process. Now, I often will dump it by going power attack anyway, but that doesn't mean I can't still hit the AC for when it's more beneficial.

Vhlad
10-11-2009, 12:46 PM
I agree - but it is the same problem that there was with rangers for a long time too (and still plagues rogues). Everyone tried to niche the class into a finesse build (or these oddball wisdom builds) when it could and probably should be a Str build. The problem isn't with the class, given metalline wraps. The problem is bad players making bad build choices. (Godlike AC but no intimidate or DPS to back it up).

I have no doubt that a well built Str monk is going to perform awesomely, and eventually, just like with rangers, people will come around and start seeing that the Str build is the way to go. Until that time - judging the monk class by the number of retards rolling monks is a shortsighted way to view the class.


For a halfing max str monk you are looking at 8-12 str difference vs. a finesse build with just enough str for power attack (and since monks get auto sneak attack even with aggro via unbalancing strike, it could be argued that halfling is still the way to go even for a dps focused monk). So you are looking at a 4-6 difference in damage per hit when you are dealing around 60 (excluding crits, sneak attacks & monk strikes). Seems like a marginal dps increase, with a meaningful loss of AC, and a less meaningful loss of to-hit & reflex saves. Dont quite see how going str based is going to rescue the monk class. They still need love.

Back in the day people did not like to accept many rangers, rogues, or paladins into groups or raids either. These classes were not rescued by simply going str based. Changes and additions to enhancements (all the different prestige lines, bonus sneak attack damage, divine might, divine sacrifice), spell additions (rams might, zeal), and good itemization (radiance rapiers) is what made rogues, rangers, paladins more accepted. I was hoping to see a baby step toward monk love with improved handwrap itemization, but the named one we have found is just disappointing is all. Sorry to derail the thread. I will shush now!

Monkey_Archer
10-11-2009, 12:51 PM
For a halfing max str monk you are looking at 8-12 str difference vs. a finesse build with just enough str for power attack (and since monks get auto sneak attack even with aggro via unbalancing strike, it could be argued that halfling is still the way to go even for a dps focused monk). So you are looking at a 4-6 difference in damage per hit when you are dealing around 60 (excluding crits, sneak attacks & monk strikes). Seems like a marginal dps increase, with a meaningful loss of AC, and a less meaningful loss of to-hit & reflex saves. Dont quite see how going str based is going to rescue the class. They still need love.

The same can be said about dex vs str based rogues and rangers... With full str bonus to offhand attacks, monks gain more dps per point of strength increase then any other class.

TreknaQudane
10-11-2009, 12:53 PM
For a halfing max str monk you are looking at 8-12 str difference vs. a finesse build with just enough str for power attack (and since monks get auto sneak attack even with aggro via unbalancing strike, it could be argued that halfling is still the way to go even for a dps focused monk). So you are looking at a 4-6 difference in damage per hit when you are dealing around 60 (excluding crits, sneak attacks & monk strikes). Seems like a marginal dps increase, with a meaningful loss of AC, and a less meaningful loss of to-hit & reflex saves. Dont quite see how going str based is going to rescue the class. They still need love.

I think this counts as a bit of love. http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=2476817&postcount=1

Gordo
10-12-2009, 10:13 AM
TITAN COOKIES:

Cookies that we PRESENTLY have will change?

If so, that is just B.S.

Junts
10-12-2009, 10:19 AM
TITAN COOKIES:

Cookies that we PRESENTLY have will change?

If so, that is just B.S.

thats happened every year.

MDS_Geist
10-12-2009, 01:45 PM
TITAN COOKIES:

Cookies that we PRESENTLY have will change?

If so, that is just B.S.

As Junts points out it happens every year, and sometimes you benefit from it. Other times you find out in entertaining ways, such as when I didn't relazie my Syriana cakes no longer had feather fall and now had jump - so I jumped even higher before splattering my paladin all over the ground. :)

Solmage
10-13-2009, 09:26 AM
Hate ot break this to you,[...] Vhlad, but a monk with metalline of geob handwraps and holy/shock burst rings would substantially out-dps most ranger builds.

An amusing notion. Try again, and this time, please do account for the fact that the ranger is getting oh, about 24 extra strength to both his main hand and secondary hand attacks, you know, on top of the 34 regular strength that is. Now add self resists, self jump, self FoM, self protects, versatility to use ranged weapons..

Frankly, I'll play a monk when I'm in the mood to be extremely nerfed in both DPS AND versatility, but I can be convinced to occasionally do shrouds with silver flame clubs (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=182779) just to see what my dps as a monk would be :p ;)

Junts
10-13-2009, 09:30 AM
An amusing notion. Try again, and this time, please do account for the fact that the ranger is getting oh, about 24 extra strength to both his main hand and secondary hand attacks, you know, on top of the 34 regular strength that is. Now add self resists, self jump, self FoM, self protects, versatility to use ranged weapons..

Frankly, I'll play a monk when I'm in the mood to be extremely nerfed in both DPS AND versatility, but I can be convinced to occasionally do shrouds with silver flame clubs (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=182779) just to see what my dps as a monk would be :p ;)

Its cool you're ignorant, but, hey, its your loss. every d6 averages 3.5 damage per roll, so when you're talking about adding that to every attack (and remember, rangers get a half strength bous offhand .. monks dont), it doesn't take long for it to quickly surpass the bonuses of strength or even favored enemy damage on a non-critical attack (specifically, 3d6 does as much damage as favored enemy completely maxed out does, on average). The higher crit multiplier takes longer to outweigh, but when you're carting literally 8d6 added damage per hit, it gets made up pretty quickly. Also keep i mind that monks take the same number of attacks as a tempest 3 ranger in their ultimate wind stance, and that the base damage on hand to hand is equal or superior to any greensteel weapon a ranger might use, another substantial bonus to base damage. 1d10 + 50 +2d6 +1d4 is excellent (min2 using ranger, the offhand will be +43 or so), but so is 2d10+38 +8d6. The first does 50-60 base damage and 9.5 damage added per hit.. the second does 40-58 damage and adds 28 more damage in added dice per hit. that extra 19 damage is, uhm, quite a bit.

The differene is functionally equivalent to them giving monks 6d6 sneak attack damage that isn't subject to fortification .. can you see how that might instantly have given them competitive dps? think about what rogue dps is like .. monks can get that many added die even when the mob has 100% fort or has aggro on them. Its a tremendous amount of added damage.

The Dev staff has done pretty much everything imaginable to boost the power of monk dps, and when you put all of those things together, they have succeeded in enabling people to create a monk with similar dps output to a ranger (which, I will note, is inferior dps output to a fb3 barb or a a kotc3 paladin).

You can disagree with basic laws of the universe like mathematics if you'd like to, but that doesn't make them untrue.

MDS_Geist
10-13-2009, 05:07 PM
You can disagree with basic laws of the universe like mathematics if you'd like to, but that doesn't make them untrue.

+1 rep for pretty much the exact quote I said to some of my students ten hours ago. :)

The drop rate of metalline handwraps also makes a huge difference. My monk has found quite a few of them so far.

Vhlad
10-14-2009, 03:00 PM
1d10 + 50 +2d6 +1d4 is excellent (min2 using ranger, the offhand will be +43 or so), but so is 2d10+38 +8d6. The first does 50-60 base damage and 9.5 damage added per hit.. the second does 40-58 damage and adds 28 more damage in added dice per hit. that extra 19 damage is, uhm, quite a bit.

1d10+50+2d6+1d4 <-- where is the +50 from?

Hmmm.
+13 [36 str: 18(base) +5(level-ups)+4(tome)+9(ring)]
+1 (litany; str would be 37 so no str damage bonus, but build could use a +3 tome instead of a +4)
+2 (shintao set)
+2 (frenzy berzerker set)
+14 (+2 favored enemy at 1, 5, 10, 15, 20 and + 4 enhancements)
+2 (axe enhancement)
+5 (power attack)
+5 (weapon enhancement)
+3 (rams might)
+1 (favor str pot)
+1 (single madstone: perfectly viable, ranger buffs last 20 minutes and they do not have attacks which require casting animations)
+1 (force ritual)
= 50
But that's a dwarf...

For a WF it would be -2 (axe enhancement) +3 (power attack enhancement)
= 51.... [but -5 to-hit, and to-hit appears to matter again on epic, so dwarf is better imo]

Similarly, 2d10+38 +8d6 <-- where is the +38 from?
+11 [32 str: 16(base) +5(level-ups)+4(tome)+7(ring; both rings are bursting so you lose +2 str)] (halfing for monk imo = 16 max str)
+1 (litany; str would be 35 so no str damage bonus, but build could use a +3 tome instead of a +4)
+2 (shintao set)
+2 (frenzy berzerker set)
+5 (power attack)
+9 (weapon enhancement; a +5 greater bane)
+1 (favor str pot)
+1 (single madstone; questionable)
+1 (force ritual)
= 33
But madstone on a monk means they cant use many finishing moves or party buffs (which only last 1 minute). Madstone is not worth it imo. So without madstone it would be +32.

And where does the +8d6 come from?
+5 metalline handwraps of greater evil outsider bane, holy burst ring, shocking burst ring means you're only getting 6d6 outside of crits. 8d6 implies +5 holy of greater bane handwraps which means you lose the metalline. If you're not including metalline then you might as well give the ranger a lightning II dwarven axe. In fact, since we're talking about +5 holy greater bane handwraps or +5 metalline greater bane handwraps, you might as well give the ranger some +5 holy silver greater bane dwarven axes.

min II DA vs +5 metalline of greater evil outsider bane with holy burst ring & shocking burst ring, against mobs immune to acid [i.e. in a current end-game raid setting].
2d8+50+2d6+1d4 vs. 2d10 +32+6d6
i.e. 59 (19/x3) +9.5 vs. 43 (19x2) + 21 + 1.6 (the 1.6 is the average contribution of the burst effects on a 19/x2)
Adding it all up yields: 68.5 vs 65.6

But the ranger off hand will lose 7. i.e. 52 (19/x3) +9.5 = 61.5
61.5 + 68.5 = 65 average, vs. 65.6
But that's not factoring in higher base damage and higher crit multiplier for the ranger.

And if the monk has something like a +5 metalline handwrap of greater evil outsider bane, perhaps the ranger has +5 holy silver dwarven axes of greater evil outsider bane.
1d10+54+5d6 vs. 65.6
59.5 (19/x3) + 5d6 vs. 65.6
77 (main hand) vs 65.6.
or 70 (off hand) vs. 65.6

And we're still excluding higher base damage (59.5 main hand, 52.5 off hand vs. 43 monk) and a x3 crit multiplier vs. a x2. Oh and the ranger is attacking 5% faster because he's madstoned, whereas the monk is not because the party is expecting stun immunity and/or +2 skills (for intims) and/or 25% reduced spell point cost.

To over-exaggerate possible monk dps is a disservice to us. The monk class still needs some love (especially so because it is a premium class). I wouldn't want the monk prestige enhancements to come around and be exceptionally weak or preemptively nerfed to counter misleading praises of monk uberness/ horn tooting.

Edit: Dammit, this is the new items on lamannia thread. I am contributing to thread derailment. ><
Well at least the definitive thread is up now for new items on lamannia. Still, apologies to the OP.

juniorpfactors
10-14-2009, 03:32 PM
1d10+50+2d6+1d4 <-- where is the +50 from?

Hmmm.
+13 [36 str: 18(base) +5(level-ups)+4(tome)+9(ring)]
+1 (litany; str would be 37 so no str damage bonus, but build could use a +3 tome instead of a +4)
+2 (shintao set)
+2 (frenzy berzerker set)
+14 (+2 favored enemy at 1, 5, 10, 15, 20 and + 4 enhancements)
+2 (axe enhancement)
+5 (power attack)
+5 (weapon enhancement)
+3 (rams might)
+1 (favor str pot)
+1 (single madstone: perfectly viable, ranger buffs last 20 minutes and they do not have attacks which require casting animations)
+1 (force ritual)
= 50
But that's a dwarf...

For a WF it would be -2 (axe enhancement) +3 (power attack enhancement)
= 51.... [but -5 to-hit, and to-hit appears to matter again on epic, so dwarf is better imo]

Similarly, 2d10+38 +8d6 <-- where is the +38 from?
+11 [32 str: 16(base) +5(level-ups)+4(tome)+7(ring; both rings are bursting so you lose +2 str)] (halfing for monk imo = 16 max str)
+1 (litany; str would be 35 so no str damage bonus, but build could use a +3 tome instead of a +4)
+2 (shintao set)
+2 (frenzy berzerker set)
+5 (power attack)
+9 (weapon enhancement; a +5 greater bane)
+1 (favor str pot)
+1 (single madstone; questionable)
+1 (force ritual)
= 33
But madstone on a monk means they cant use many finishing moves or party buffs (which only last 1 minute). Madstone is not worth it imo. So without madstone it would be +32.

And where does the +8d6 come from?
+5 metalline handwraps of greater evil outsider bane, holy burst ring, shocking burst ring means you're only getting 6d6 outside of crits. 8d6 implies +5 holy of greater bane handwraps which means you lose the metalline. If you're not including metalline then you might as well give the ranger a lightning II dwarven axe. In fact, since we're talking about +5 holy greater bane handwraps or +5 metalline greater bane handwraps, you might as well give the ranger some +5 holy silver greater bane dwarven axes.

min II DA vs +5 metalline of greater evil outsider bane with holy burst ring & shocking burst ring, against mobs immune to acid [i.e. in a current end-game raid setting].
2d8+50+2d6+1d4 vs. 2d10 +32+6d6
i.e. 59 (19/x3) +9.5 vs. 43 (19x2) + 21 + 1.6 (the 1.6 is the average contribution of the burst effects on a 19/x2)
Adding it all up yields: 68.5 vs 65.6

But the ranger off hand will lose 7. i.e. 52 (19/x3) +9.5 = 61.5
61.5 + 68.5 = 65 average, vs. 65.6
But that's not factoring in higher base damage and higher crit multiplier for the ranger.

And if the monk has something like a +5 metalline handwrap of greater evil outsider bane, perhaps the ranger has +5 holy silver dwarven axes of greater evil outsider bane.
1d10+54+5d6 vs. 65.6
59.5 (19/x3) + 5d6 vs. 65.6
77 (main hand) vs 65.6.
or 70 (off hand) vs. 65.6

And we're still excluding higher base damage (59.5 main hand, 52.5 off hand vs. 43 monk) and a x3 crit multiplier vs. a x2. Oh and the ranger is attacking 5% faster because he's madstoned, whereas the monk is not because the party is expecting stun immunity and/or +2 skills (for intims) and/or 25% reduced spell point cost.

To over-exaggerate possible monk dps is a disservice to us. The monk class still needs some love (especially so because it is a premium class). I wouldn't want the monk prestige enhancements to come around and be exceptionally weak or preemptively nerfed to counter misleading praises of monk uberness/ horn tooting.

Edit: Dammit, this is the new items on lamannia thread. I am contributing to thread derailment. ><
Well at least the definitive thread is up now for new items on lamannia. Still, apologies to the OP.

Dr. Vhlad well done sir

jrp

Reversion
10-14-2009, 03:39 PM
Vhlad, you're forgetting some additional monk damage:

Storm Strike III/IV = 2d10/2d20 additional lightning damage.
Strike of the Enduring III/IV = 12/16 additional damage, and 1d10/2d10 acid damage on critical hits.
Fires of Purity III/IV = 2d10/2d20 additional fire damage.
Flowing Water Strike III/IV = 2d10/2d20 additional cold damage.

Str-based Halfling:
Str 16(16 points) = Fires of Purity IV
Dex 16(6 points) = Storm Strike IV
Con 14(6 points) = Strike of the Enduring III (+4 Tome for IV)
Wis 12(4 points) = Flowing Water Strike II(+4 Tome for III)

Vhlad
10-14-2009, 04:07 PM
Vhlad, you're forgetting some additional monk damage:

Storm Strike III/IV = 2d10/2d20 additional lightning damage.
Strike of the Enduring III/IV = 12/16 additional damage, and 1d10/2d10 acid damage on critical hits.
Fires of Purity III/IV = 2d10/2d20 additional fire damage.
Flowing Water Strike III/IV = 2d10/2d20 additional cold damage.

Str-based Halfling:
Str 16(16 points) = Fires of Purity IV
Dex 16(6 points) = Storm Strike IV
Con 14(6 points) = Strike of the Enduring III (+4 Tome for IV)
Wis 12(4 points) = Flowing Water Strike II(+4 Tome for III)

Yeah, wasn't 100% exhaustive. Didn't look at the 20 ranger multishotting a lightning II bow with silver arrows whenever he could. And I didn't factor in sneak attacks (a benefit to halflings). And I didn't factor in monk strikes. Not sure how to accurately do that. Even if you're spamming them you don't get them every swing. And sometimes you appear to get them to proc twice, sometimes just once. Will need someone less lazy to test the average (or maximum) proc rate of monk strike spamming.

I also missed some buffs, like rage spell/pot, bard songs, etc. Oh and I didn't look at to-hits in much detail either.

I'm also not 100% sure if ranger favored enemy damage is +2 at 5 10 15 20. The description is vague, and I haven't tested it in-game. It could be +2 at level 1, but then only +1 at 5 10 15 20. But as it's worded, it makes more sense if the cumulative bonus is +2. And ddowiki lists it as +2.

I wasn't trying to be 100% exhaustive. Just saw Junts numbers and tried to figure out where they came from.

Junts
10-14-2009, 04:19 PM
Yeah, wasn't 100% exhaustive. Didn't look at the 20 ranger multishotting a lightning II bow with silver arrows whenever he could. And I didn't factor in sneak attacks (a benefit to halflings). And I didn't factor in monk strikes. Not sure how to accurately do that. Even if you're spamming them you don't get them every swing. And sometimes you appear to get them to proc twice, sometimes just once. Will need someone less lazy to test the average (or maximum) proc rate of monk strike spamming.

I also missed some buffs, like rage spell/pot, bard songs, etc.

I'm also not 100% sure if ranger favored enemy damage is +2 at 5 10 15 20. The description is vague, and I haven't tested it in-game. It could be +2 at level 1, but then only +1 at 5 10 15 20. But as it's worded, it makes more sense if the cumulative bonus is +2. And ddowiki lists it as +2.

I wasn't trying to be 100% exhaustive. Just saw Junts numbers and tried to figure out where they came from.

My monk number was the raid number on my dps monk, who doesn't have the fb set or a couple other mods yet (but does run two rings and the shintao bonus), the +50 I pulled out of air as roughly approximate for a capped ranger, looks like I did moderately well on that. I dont have a capped tempest3 to use, so I pretty much made that part up for comparison's sake :)

I calculate the dps on ki strikes entirely on their own in terms of uses per minute .. eg, for dps right now I usually spam storm 4, storm 3 and earth 2 on a 3 second rotation, which is 20 uses of each per minute, 19 hits on average (assuming each rolls a 1 once in 20, over time, true) and figure the added dice from that

that rotation used to be worth about 15 dps, with the improvement to ki strikes, it'll be worth a lot more now in the future.

You are correct on it only being 6d6 with metalline, though metalline geob is going to be substantially eaier to get than holy/silver or the like: think about how many more trans/geob you see out there than holy silver or trans flametouched banes, since the metals are assigned so rarely.

I could use dual lit2s for the ranger, but typically people determine dps in raidboss terms, which means min2s, and its only a small minority of layers who actually make min2 and lit2 sets (it exists, certainly), and certainly lit2 is a substantially better trash output (though so is weighted 5%/stunning fist, which is almost impossible to quantify well, though in experience with holy weighted 5 handwraps and my rings my monk maintains pretty even killcounts with dps rangers in practice, for what that's worth)

In any case the assorted dps values are pretty competitive, regardless of which is better, the question is not 'does x do 5% more dps than y", its 'does x do anything near the dps of y', and the answer is yes, it does, and it used to be something like 66% of the dps of y .. now its 90 or 95 depending on gear setups and the like, which is a tremendous improvement.

Angelus_dead
10-14-2009, 04:34 PM
The differene is functionally equivalent to them giving monks 6d6 sneak attack damage that isn't subject to fortification .. can you see how that might instantly have given them competitive dps? think about what rogue dps is like .. monks can get that many added die even when the mob has 100% fort or has aggro on them. Its a tremendous amount of added damage.
Stuff like that makes me wonder if Holy Burst TOD rings should apply to weapons too... or if Improved Unarmed Strike and Superior Unarmed Strike should be added as globally-trainable combat feats...

Junts
10-14-2009, 04:36 PM
Stuff like that makes me wonder if Holy Burst TOD rings should apply to weapons too... or if Improved Unarmed Strike and Superior Unarmed Strike should be added as globally-trainable combat feats...

Its best the way it is, unarmed has significant drawbacks in other ways (bad crit power, significant other limitations eg no lithgnting 2, etc), there's really no problem with boosting monks in the manner they're boosted, it makes them play very differently, dps very differently .. and have different raiding needs and equipment setup needs

but diversity is better, especially since even things like barb/pal/ranger dps all use basically the same gear and setups

drac317
10-14-2009, 07:36 PM
Oops didn't see this thread ;).

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a100/Defclone/ScreenShot00686.jpg

does anyone have a screenie of this staff equiped, it doesnt look any differnt then some already in game from the pic in the discription.

KaKa
10-14-2009, 08:08 PM
does anyone have a screenie of this staff equiped, it doesnt look any differnt then some already in game from the pic in the discription.

Didn't take a screen, but I can tell you where you can see the same graphic in the game. It looks like the spear held by the fighter trainer in House D.

drac317
10-16-2009, 10:31 PM
cool thanks