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Ragnborg
10-09-2009, 08:42 AM
A couple weeks ago I I posted a build I wanted to try (13 ranger/4 paladin/3 rogue) and based on the feedback I got I modified the build. Now I need some more specific feedback on my feats and ability increases. Here is the new build.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Lawful Good Elf Male
(3 Paladin \ 2 Rogue \ 15 Ranger)
Hit Points: 254
Spell Points: 220
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 22
Will: 9

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 14 17
Dexterity 16 23
Constitution 12 12
Intelligence 12 12
Wisdom 10 10
Charisma 12 13

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 3 6
Bluff 5 5
Concentration 1 7
Diplomacy 1 4
Disable Device 5 21
Haggle 1 1
Heal 0 5
Hide 5 15
Intimidate 1 1
Jump 3 5
Listen 1 9
Move Silently 7 16
Open Lock 7 23
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 1 1
Search 5 16
Spot 4 16
Swim 2 3
Tumble 7 11
Use Magic Device 5 18

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Elven Keen Senses
Feat: (Automatic) Enchantment Save Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Immunity to Sleep
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longbow
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I


Level 2 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Human
Feat: (Automatic) Bow Strength
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Feat: (Automatic) Wild Empathy
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Good
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Smite Evil
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I


Level 4 (Paladin)
Feat: (Automatic) Divine Grace
Feat: (Automatic) Lay on Hands
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I


Level 5 (Paladin)
Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Courage
Feat: (Automatic) Divine Health
Feat: (Automatic) Fear Immunity
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Paladin Saves Boost I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I


Level 7 (Ranger)
Feat: (Automatic) Rapid Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I


Level 8 (Ranger)
Feat: (Automatic) Diehard
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II


Level 9 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Mobility
Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Extra Empathy I


Level 10 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Attack I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild I


Level 11 (Ranger)
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Manyshot
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II


Level 12 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Wild Empathy
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I


Level 13 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild II


Level 14 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage II


Level 15 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Elemental
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II


Level 16 (Ranger)
Feat: (Automatic) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Precise Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Precise Shot
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity III


Level 17 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest II


Level 18 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack II


Level 19 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage II


Level 20 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
Enhancement: Paladin Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild III




I selected PAladin and rogue levels for what they provide, after that my primary focus is in maximizing melee dps.

-First question is how is my feat selection?
-How good is Dodge, and should I use something else instead?
-Is it worth focusing on piercing weapons like I am to be able to dual wield Rapiers?
-how is my slection of favored enimies? Are there any I should replace?
-How should I spend my ability points? I put 3 into strength and 1 into dexterity, would it better to keep my base STR at 14 and load up on DEX because I'm using Weapon Finesse? I had also considered maybe dumping a point or 2 into my Charisma, could that be worth it to push my charisma mod up a point for the extra heals on LOH?

Thanks for any feedback.

tihocan
10-09-2009, 09:29 AM
-First question is how is my feat selection?
-How good is Dodge, and should I use something else instead?
-Is it worth focusing on piercing weapons like I am to be able to dual wield Rapiers?
-how is my slection of favored enimies? Are there any I should replace?
-How should I spend my ability points? I put 3 into strength and 1 into dexterity, would it better to keep my base STR at 14 and load up on DEX because I'm using Weapon Finesse? I had also considered maybe dumping a point or 2 into my Charisma, could that be worth it to push my charisma mod up a point for the extra heals on LOH?

Thanks for any feedback.
You're missing Power attack.
Dual rapiers is fine.
Favored enemy: Human??
Dodge is a prereq for mobilty/spring attack, needed for tempest
If you're going finesse, then dump points into Dex. Otherwise, don't take finesse, put points in Str and go Khopesh. Will be significantly more DPS, at the cost of some lower defensive abilities (AC/reflex). Don't put any point into Cha.

Lozareth
10-09-2009, 10:34 AM
I'm wondering why 2 levels of rogue when rangers already get evasion at lvl 9? One level of rogue is usually good enough for ranger builds.

tihocan
10-09-2009, 11:17 AM
I'm wondering why 2 levels of rogue when rangers already get evasion at lvl 9? One level of rogue is usually good enough for ranger builds.
I didn't do the maths but it's probably useful to get all these skills with just 12 Int.

Ragnborg
10-09-2009, 12:02 PM
You're missing Power attack.
Dual rapiers is fine.
Favored enemy: Human??
Dodge is a prereq for mobilty/spring attack, needed for tempest
If you're going finesse, then dump points into Dex. Otherwise, don't take finesse, put points in Str and go Khopesh. Will be significantly more DPS, at the cost of some lower defensive abilities (AC/reflex). Don't put any point into Cha.

Thanks!

If I am thinking correctly, I was just thinking I could get an extra 13 hp per LoH with one more point in CHA. That's 26 per day, I thought maybe that would be better than having 1 more STR or DEX. I was wondering why I picked Dodge, it didn;t seem that great after I reviewed my build, but it makes sense now, I needed it for Tempest.

I definately didn't think of Power attack, it didn't sound that impressive to me. I probably don't fully understand the mechanics, but I kind of thought the tradeoff would be a wash, because I would do more damage, but I would miss more often.

If I should have Power Ataack, what should I trade for it?

Ragnborg
10-09-2009, 12:04 PM
I didn't do the maths but it's probably useful to get all these skills with just 12 Int.

yeah that's pretty much it. I also don't see that I gain anything for one more ranger level at all, so I figured I sould get something at least.

Speaking of the skills, are these skill levels high enough to be useful? are there any I should totally not advance, and some I should give more points to?

tihocan
10-09-2009, 12:17 PM
Thanks!

If I am thinking correctly, I was just thinking I could get an extra 13 hp per LoH with one more point in CHA. That's 26 per day, I thought maybe that would be better than having 1 more STR or DEX. I was wondering why I picked Dodge, it didn;t seem that great after I reviewed my build, but it makes sense now, I needed it for Tempest.

I definately didn't think of Power attack, it didn't sound that impressive to me. I probably don't fully understand the mechanics, but I kind of thought the tradeoff would be a wash, because I would do more damage, but I would miss more often.

If I should have Power Ataack, what should I trade for it?
Well, +1 Cha will do nothing for you if you're going from even number to odd number. Assuming it allows you to get from odd to even, then yes, you may gain 13 pts/Loh, but that will be pointless pretty fast. WIth only 3 levels of paladin, don't expect your Loh to remain useful at high level.

If you build/equip your character properly, you can reliably hit most stuff with power attack at mid/high level. It's a must-have feat for any character who wants to dish out good DPS. I would swap out weapon focus for power attack.

tihocan
10-09-2009, 12:19 PM
Speaking of the skills, are these skill levels high enough to be useful? are there any I should totally not advance, and some I should give more points to?
You probably want to max out DD/Search/UMD. At least half ranks in Open locks. Intimidate is good to have. Try to target about 15+ balance at L20. Put 1 rank in Tumble.

Ragnborg
10-09-2009, 12:24 PM
Well, +1 Cha will do nothing for you if you're going from even number to odd number. Assuming it allows you to get from odd to even, then yes, you may gain 13 pts/Loh, but that will be pointless pretty fast. WIth only 3 levels of paladin, don't expect your Loh to remain useful at high level.

If you build/equip your character properly, you can reliably hit most stuff with power attack at mid/high level. It's a must-have feat for any character who wants to dish out good DPS. I would swap out weapon focus for power attack.

Thanks. I will look into Power Attack.

I would be going from 13 CHA to 14, but I can see the point that 26 more HP worth of heals ends up being worthless at higher levels. I guess my CHA will be 19 with a +6 item, that would make each LOH (2 per day) hit for 52 HP right? it would be 65 with one more CHA? Would it be worth it to lower my base CHA to 11 so my +1 paladin CHA enhancement takes me to an even number and apply that extra point into something else?

AS for human as favored, that is probably just me not understanding. I was thinking that human enemies would be the most common, and therefor that would be most useful. If that is not the case, I will change it to something more useful. Would would be the recommendation?

I appreciate you taking the time to help out a noob.

Ragnborg
10-09-2009, 01:46 PM
You probably want to max out DD/Search/UMD. At least half ranks in Open locks. Intimidate is good to have. Try to target about 15+ balance at L20. Put 1 rank in Tumble.

For skill points what is max?

I very much doubt I can get everything I want here. I was shooting for:

23 Open Lock
21 DD
18 UMD
15 for Hide/Spot/Move Silently/Search
10 Listen

I was pretty much going to ignore Balance and Bluff, becasue they would be very hard to rank up in this build. I certainly can see the value of having Balance higher, but I can't get balance that high, without making significant reductions in other areas, especially since that is a cross class skill for the major portion of my leveling and Hide/Spot/Move Silently/Search are class skills for ranger. What would you vets recommend?3

At what point in the game would I be likely to come across a +2 INT tome to boost my points, or is that something I can't really depend on to help me at all?

I want to get Skill Points right, because you cannot respec them as far as I can tell.