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View Full Version : Locks and Traps: How to?



DANTEIL
10-07-2009, 05:23 PM
So I have a splash of Rogue on my Ranger, and one of the main reasons I did that, of course, was to be able to Open Locks and Disarm Traps on my own. However, I am not sure that I am doing either one correctly:

Open Locks: I have an Open Lock skill that I can activate when it comes time to unlock a door. However, I'm not quite sure what the Thieves' Tools are for. Do I click on the Open Lock skill or do I click on the Thieves' Tools? Or do I just click on the door and it will unlock if I have the skill? I know that I've unlocked a door before, but I'm not exactly sure why/how I did it. (actually, I'm curious about the Healer's tools and Heal skill too).

Disarm Traps: Well, apparently the "Disable Device" skill is intended to used to Disarm Traps (are there other kinds of devices in future parts of the game?). So I have the Disable Device skill, and I am constantly "Spotting" danger ahead, which lets me know that a trap is coming up. However I can never actually do anything about the trap. Is the Trap supposed to glow like a Secret Door if I am able to identify and disarm it? I have never been able to click on a trap or anything, and the Disable Device skill has never given me anything as far as I can tell. It is possible that I don't have enough skill points to do anything with it -- how does one know how many points are enough?


In sum, melee I can figure out on my own. You see a badguy, you club it :) But this more specialized stuff is less obvious (and I haven't even gotten started on spells :) ). Thanks in advance.. it's better I ask this here rather than being annoying in a group.

Saice
10-07-2009, 05:31 PM
Tools are used automatically every time you use Open Locks or DD.

when you get that spot message you have to still use Search to find the trap box to use DD on.

As a side it would have been better to take the rogue level first as it would have netted you a ton more skill points in your rogue skills. The dif to do rouge tasks ramp up vary quickly and some things (spot/search) do not get a D20 roll you either have the skill to do it or not.

atkbeast
10-07-2009, 05:41 PM
You need to use your search skill to find the trap's control box. Unlike spot, which is passive, you need to activate your search skill which is the spy glass in your quick bar. When you find the box it will glow and give off waves for a short time to show you can see it. To disable traps or open locks, just click on the appropriate skill icon. Thieves tools are just needed in your inventory to perform the skill. As long as you have tools you can do the job. Just make sure you dont run out. It can be embarrassing finding a trap and not being able to try disabling it.

SquelchHU
10-07-2009, 05:46 PM
For open locks, click on the door and then use your open lock skill. As long as you have the door highlighted you'll try to pick it, automatically using a tool in the process.

When you get the danger alert use your Search skill. If it worked you'll see the box appear in a way that very obviously draws attention to it (though you may reveal it but not see it if it's behind a wall, around a corner...) Once you have exposed the box click on it and use your Disable Device skill. This also automatically uses a tool.

The game checks your inventory left to right, top to bottom, left tab to right tab so ideally you want your best tools in the very first spot of your inventory unless you're confident you can get the trap with lesser tools. Be careful with this, some traps have surprisingly high DCs for the level (34+ for Durk's Elite for example). You can fail at lockpicking without any penalty though except time and tools. As long as you can get it on a 20, you can get it, but it would be much better to get it on lower numbers.

What server are you on?

DANTEIL
10-07-2009, 06:13 PM
Thanks! this is great information.. I'm on Khyber, btw.

Just so I understand:

a) I come across a door. It is locked. But if I have the Open Locks skill, I will try to use it if I click on the door and then click on the skill. If I am successful, that will use up one of my "tools." Presumably, there are doors that I will not be able to unlock (because my skill and/or tools are insufficient). Will an unsuccessful attempt use a tool as well?

b) My passive Spot skill senses danger ahead. Oh noes! But since I have the Search skill, I can click it to search the surrounding area for the trap. Again, presumably, there are traps that are sufficiently hidden that I won't find them. But if I am successful, the trap thingie will glow. At that point, I can click on my Disable Device skill and try to disarm it, again using a tool.

Eventually I probably could have figured this out with trial and error, but this really helps. And I *also* learned that there are apparently different grades of tools? Who knew? I assume it tells you this in the tool description? Can great tools make up for lousy skills?

Junts
10-07-2009, 06:16 PM
Thanks! this is great information.. I'm on Khyber, btw.

Just so I understand:

a) I come across a door. It is locked. But if I have the Open Locks skill, I will try to use it if I click on the door and then click on the skill. If I am successful, that will use up one of my "tools." Presumably, there are doors that I will not be able to unlock (because my skill and/or tools are insufficient). Will an unsuccessful attempt use a tool as well?

b) My passive Spot skill senses danger ahead. Oh noes! But since I have the Search skill, I can click it to search the surrounding area for the trap. Again, presumably, there are traps that are sufficiently hidden that I won't find them. But if I am successful, the trap thingie will glow. At that point, I can click on my Disable Device skill and try to disarm it, again using a tool.

Eventually I probably could have figured this out with trial and error, but this really helps. And I *also* learned that there are apparently different grades of tools? Who knew? I assume it tells you this in the tool description? Can great tools make up for lousy skills?


Any attempt at a trap or door will use a thieves tool. The better your tools, the larger the bonus they will give to your roll.

If you fail at a lock, you can just try again as much as you want until you get it or realize that even on a 20 you cannot

If you fail on a trap by more than 5 (eg the dc is 25 and your total is 19 or lower), the box will explode and the trap will be undisarmable, and you may take damage

You wont be able to see the boxes wiuthout search

In practical use, locks are very easy and pain-free to retry, and its possible to unlock even endgame doors with just 5 or so total ranks in the skill

searching will often be harder than disabling, especially between levels 8-10 .. you wil frequently need a search skill 10-15 points over your disable skill to be able to handle traps, because you don't get a d20 roll or a thieves tool bonus to your search, but you do to your disable

DANTEIL
10-07-2009, 06:44 PM
Thanks again.. also very useful.

One question I didn't ask before: When using the Search skill, does it matter if you are facing in the direction of the secret door/trap or is it just like a 360-degree radius thing?

sirgog
10-07-2009, 08:03 PM
Thanks again.. also very useful.

One question I didn't ask before: When using the Search skill, does it matter if you are facing in the direction of the secret door/trap or is it just like a 360-degree radius thing?

360 degrees, and roughly a Haste radius.

You might search out the trap itself but not be close enough to the control panel to search the panel out - in that case, keep searching till you find it. Nasty traps have the control panel on the other side of the trap; particularly fiendish traps may even have the control panel inside the trap :eek:

Saice
10-07-2009, 08:06 PM
360 degrees, and roughly a Haste radius.

You might search out the trap itself but not be close enough to the control panel to search the panel out - in that case, keep searching till you find it. Nasty traps have the control panel on the other side of the trap; particularly fiendish traps may even have the control panel inside the trap :eek:

oh god I hate those. This is why a good rouge should carry some energy resists of some sort.

Arnya
10-07-2009, 08:31 PM
It's a real shame they removed new new player area and replaced it with meh.

There used to be special rooms for casters and rogues etc, where the quest would teach classes how to use their skills.

Some ****** decided it would be better to throw you on an island and cut you off from the rest of the population until you had completed a minimum of 7 quests with just the most basic of gameplay instruction.

This wouldn't be too bad if there was in-game help, or better access to information.

Also, as an MMO, you can expect players to completely ignore any help or advice feature you provide and never read the manual.

Such a shame for my generation of gamers who had a loooong time to read the manual while the game installed from two dozen 5 1/4" floppies....

Saice
10-07-2009, 08:41 PM
Such a shame for my generation of gamers who had a loooong time to read the manual while the game installed from two dozen 5 1/4" floppies....

Try loading form audio tape or typing it 100+ lines of basic. Yeah my Vic-20 and C-64 were cutting edge once.

Dyer
10-07-2009, 08:42 PM
Just to add a few things on what has already been said, you might want to get yourself a few items that will boost your spot/search/disable device skills. At low levels, items giving you +3 are fairly common, +5 are better, but they might be a bit more difficult to come by. Put these items on your hotbar and change them before using the appropriate skills, so you can benefit from the associated bonus.

And I agree... The rogue tutorial that has been removed certainly helped a rogue to understand his skills a lot better than the halfling's demonstration in the grotto...

Saice
10-07-2009, 08:45 PM
Just to add a few things on what has already been said, you might want to get yourself a few items that will boost your spot/search/disable device skills. At low levels, items giving you +3 are fairly common, +5 are better, but they might be a bit more difficult to come by. Put these items on your hotbar and change them before using the appropriate skills, so you can benefit from the associated bonus.

And I agree... The rogue tutorial that has been removed certainly helped a rogue to understand his skills a lot better than the halfling's demonstration in the grotto...

Yes I can't agree more with this. find and hang on to +skill items and don't worry about them taking up pack space. Sure you might need a few different goggles/gloves/rings but they take no time to swap out and you can just drag them to a hot bar if needed. So you have say +5 spot goggles and +5 Search goggles you will never need them both at the same time so ware the spot ones until you need to search then just swap in and out as you need. Its not uncommon to have to do this.

Arnya
10-07-2009, 09:26 PM
Try loading form audio tape or typing it 100+ lines of basic. Yeah my Vic-20 and C-64 were cutting edge once.

I used to play Elite on my Amstrad CPC6128 on tape back in the day.

Wake up and set it loading then go outside for an hour, with a break in the middle to flip the tape over :)

Old times man, old times.

asbrand
10-07-2009, 09:28 PM
you might want to get yourself a few items that will boost your spot/search/disable device skills.

...there is a cool "set" you can get from the starter island, called the "Troubleshooter's Set". It consists of goggles and a necklace, if I recall correctly. Really excellent way to boost your spot, search, disable device, open lock skills at the lower levels. I think they are +3 to all.

I too am doing the Rogue / Ranger thing, but I took my Rogue level first, so I got all the extra skill points. And, when I level up now, I spend almost all my skill points on Rogue abilities (disable device, open lock, search, spot).

I also spend action points on stuff that helps those too...

SquelchHU
10-08-2009, 04:43 AM
Thanks! this is great information.. I'm on Khyber, btw.

Just so I understand:

a) I come across a door. It is locked. But if I have the Open Locks skill, I will try to use it if I click on the door and then click on the skill. If I am successful, that will use up one of my "tools." Presumably, there are doors that I will not be able to unlock (because my skill and/or tools are insufficient). Will an unsuccessful attempt use a tool as well?

b) My passive Spot skill senses danger ahead. Oh noes! But since I have the Search skill, I can click it to search the surrounding area for the trap. Again, presumably, there are traps that are sufficiently hidden that I won't find them. But if I am successful, the trap thingie will glow. At that point, I can click on my Disable Device skill and try to disarm it, again using a tool.

Eventually I probably could have figured this out with trial and error, but this really helps. And I *also* learned that there are apparently different grades of tools? Who knew? I assume it tells you this in the tool description? Can great tools make up for lousy skills?

Yes, an unsuccessful attempt will lose a tool. There are also some locks that are unpickable, but if it can't be picked it will tell you as soon as you hit the skill button without actually trying it and wasting a tool.

As for the tools, yes it tells you. Just mouse over the tool and it will reveal a +1 bonus to the skill (normal tools), a +2 bonus (masterwork tools) all the way up to a +7 bonus (+5 tools).

You can simply buy normal tools just about anywhere. I think you can also buy masterwork tools. Higher grade tools either need to be found in a chest, bought off the Auction House from people that have done the same, or obtained from a special vendor you can access by having 75 points of Free Agent favor.

Look at the description of quests and it will tell you who the patron is. Doing that quest gives favor for that patron. So as long as you do some Free Agent quests you're working towards that.

This same Free Agent vendor will have better tools available when you get 150 Free Agent favor.

Given that a +6 bonus higher than what normal tools will give is probably the same as doubling your skill at level 1 and increasing it substantially after that, yes good tools can help a lot. But you aren't going to get the advanced tools at low levels on your own. By the time you can they're giving a lower proportionate bonus, but still very good.

7-day_Trial_Monkey
10-08-2009, 07:24 AM
Some ****** decided it would be better to throw you on an island and cut you off from the rest of the population until you had completed a minimum of 7 quests with just the most basic of gameplay instruction.

That's not true. You can leave the island immediately without doing any Korthos quests if you want.

If you going to call someone a ****** you should at least make sure what you are saying is true.

MDS_Geist
10-08-2009, 07:42 AM
There used to be special rooms for casters and rogues etc, where the quest would teach classes how to use their skills.

Some ****** decided it would be better to throw you on an island and cut you off from the rest of the population until you had completed a minimum of 7 quests with just the most basic of gameplay instruction.

The intro quest doesn't have the training rooms, true. But it does give you some pretty substantial hints. Finding traps and unlocking doors are indeed part of it. I think they should have the training rooms also, but it isn't as though they're dumping you naked in the middle of a blizzard and telling you to...oh wait, they kind of are dumping you naked in the middle of a blizzard after a shipwreck...

Squidwalker
10-08-2009, 10:31 AM
Great information here thanks guys. I'm going to be picking up some levels of rogue for my bard, so I needed this kind of info.

TehSilence
10-08-2009, 12:15 PM
Hm... never played a rogue yet (oops, sorry I mean rouge), so here are my noob questions:

I assume the pluses on the tools stack with any skill boost to open lock or disable trap, right?

If you've got multiple sets of tools with differing pluses in your pack, how does it pick the one to use? Is it by tab order left to right, inventory order top to bottom, inventory row left to right?

Araminta
10-08-2009, 12:27 PM
The game checks your inventory left to right, top to bottom, left tab to right tab so ideally you want your best tools in the very first spot of your inventory unless you're confident you can get the trap with lesser tools. Be careful with this, some traps have surprisingly high DCs for the level (34+ for Durk's Elite for example).

and yes; the bonus on the tools should stack.

Take advantage of skills boosting enhancements, specific ones and the generic "rogue skills boost" one you get five times per rest that boosts the skills by x (depending on what level of the enhancement you have taken) which will also stack.

The bonus you add to the roll will be your stat+your rank+misc modifiers (bonus on tools/items worn etc)

Good luck.

And I know this has been mentioned before but there are also xp bonuses to be gained on adventure completions - both for finding secret doors and disarming traps.

whysper
10-08-2009, 12:56 PM
Great information here thanks guys. I'm going to be picking up some levels of rogue for my bard, so I needed this kind of info.

This bears repeating: one should not just "pick up" Rogue levels*. If you plan on multiclassing to or splashing Rogue, your first level should be Rogue; you will have lost 8 skill points even if you play a Bard, more with other classes.

In your case this may be acceptable, but remember also that every non-Rogue level you must pay 2 points per skillpoint on Disable/Open as well as Search/Spot on most classes, and you already have to make up for the levels during which you have not put a single point toward those skills.

That is, unless I misunderstood you and you were talking about a Bard-in-planning.

* As I mentioned earlier, there were a lot of people on Cannith who took a Rogue level after coming across one or two locked doors etc. in Korthos and the Harbor. Fortunately less, recently.

Squidwalker
10-08-2009, 01:12 PM
Thanks Whysper. I have read that reccomendation on starting with rogue, and based on reading a lot of info ended up rerolling my char. Was only at level 2 and still on korthos. :) I still started with Bard, though. I ran the char builder up through level 6 with a plan. 1-2 bard, 3-4 rogue, then after that bard, going crowd control and TWF. Thing is this char is more of a fun char that I duo with my wife. I'm really enjoying the bard and it's working well with her cleric going through stuff, we have fun. Not trying for a purely maxed out char on this one, just somethign that's fun to duo with her. I wanted to get some rogue for the doors and traps. So far I realized there isn't much to put my bard skill points in, other then perform, which it only lets me do one point. And then concentration, one point. So I think I'll just end up dumping the other points into search and DD/OL.

I've got a dwarf barb that I'm maxing out and building as a THW killing machine to be taken into end game stuff

TehSilence
10-08-2009, 01:15 PM
and yes; the bonus on the tools should stack.


Thanks!

P.S. Ugh. Can't believe I missed that, +1 for not lambasting me as an idiot that didn't read the post (I did, honest!).:o

JStone
10-08-2009, 01:28 PM
if you are playing with a parter, and going bard...you should definetly invest in the "HAGGLE" skill. you do all the selling/buying for you and your wife.

also take the rogue level first its a huge help, invest in some INTEL as well since later on you will find runes that lock stuff and need intel to open (there are wisdom ones to but i assume she has that covered). this will also open up more skill Points

whysper
10-08-2009, 05:13 PM
Do not forget to put points in UMD!

DANTEIL
10-08-2009, 06:02 PM
As I mentioned earlier, there were a lot of people on Cannith who took a Rogue level after coming across one or two locked doors etc. in Korthos and the Harbor. Fortunately less, recently.


::blush:: I have no idea what you are talking about.

I actually prefer to play rogues, but I was concerned that I couldn't solo well enough with one, so I took Ranger instead. But then, yes, when I came across a locked door or two, I thought that adding a pinch of Rogue would help. Apparently that isn't the ideal, but I'm not a perfect-uber-character kind of guy, so re-rolling isn't for me. I like playing the hand I'm dealt with :) Or dealing with the hand I'm playing.. or something.