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View Full Version : To Turbine: Truth In Advertising and YOU!



Kiraxa
10-06-2009, 10:12 AM
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/ecommerce/bus28.shtm
Read it. Your advertising contains no disclaimers about the actual limits on free play. You advertise unlimited free play. Theres many, MANY limits on the free accounts, and no disclaimers to the contrary. You're in blatant violation of the truth in advertising act.

Pwesiela
10-06-2009, 10:34 AM
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/ecommerce/bus28.shtm
Read it. Your advertising contains no disclaimers about the actual limits on free play. You advertise unlimited free play. There's many, MANY limits on the free accounts, and no disclaimers to the contrary. You're in blatant violation of the truth in advertising act.

Actually, they've disclosed everything (http://www.ddo.com/vip).

You just chose to interpret "unlimited" to mean "not limited" when it can also mean "vast," "boundless," "infinite," or "unconditionally free, we don't charge you to play."

Kiraxa
10-06-2009, 11:41 AM
Actually, they've disclosed everything (http://www.ddo.com/vip).
You just chose to interpret "unlimited" to mean "not limited" when it can also mean "vast," "boundless," "infinite," or "unconditionally free, we don't charge you to play."

Disclaimers and disclosures must be clear and conspicuous. That is, consumers must be able to notice, read or hear, and understand the information. Still, a disclaimer or disclosure alone usually is not enough to remedy a false or deceptive claim.
Being as their advertisement never leads anywhere near that page, its not a disclosure. Now shoo fly.

Pwesiela
10-06-2009, 11:48 AM
mm-hmm

Have you had to pay anything to play yet? After all, they are advertising
unlimited free play. You can play all you want and not pay a dime. There is no limit on the time you spend in game.

The next question, assuming they haven't disclosed, is: have you been injured by this in any way? Lost out on money? Lost job opportunities? Spilled hot coffee in your lap upon learning you can't do everything the game has to offer?

Kiraxa
10-06-2009, 11:54 AM
mm-hmm

Have you had to pay anything to play yet? After all, they are advertising You can play all you want and not pay a dime. There is no limit on the time you spend in game.

The next question, assuming they haven't disclosed, is: have you been injured by this in any way? Lost out on money? Lost job opportunities? Spilled hot coffee in your lap upon learning you can't do everything the game has to offer?

lost bandwidth downloading it. Limited bandwidth for the lose. And, it doesnt say unlimited time in game. It doesnt disclose WHERE there are limits, and where there are not. It just says Unlimited Free Play. Which by the wikitionary definition is: limitless or without bounds; unrestricted. And by princeton wordnet: S: (adj) unlimited, limitless (having no limits in range or scope) "to start with a theory of unlimited freedom is to end up with unlimited despotism"- Philip Rahv; "the limitless reaches of outer space"

I understand the need for their business model (lol, trying to get 30 mil and people only willing to invest 6m in a dying company). They just need to stop the false advertisement.

Just as an aside. Do they pay you shills or something? I've had like 5 people say "LOL UNLIMITED TIME" which isn't what the advertisement is.

KoboldKiller
10-06-2009, 12:03 PM
Unlimited free play. To me that means I get to play the game for free as long as I want. I don't see how this is false. I was f2p for a few weeks and had no problems logging on and playing the game for FREE. I love how people always look for angles. No where does it say I get full access to all options within the game for free. It simply states you get to PLAY for FREE which you can. Now granted you may have to run the same few quests over and over if you don't purchase new adventure packs but that's your choice but you can still PLAY for FREE.

kamimitsu
10-06-2009, 12:04 PM
lost bandwidth downloading it. Limited bandwidth for the lose. And, it doesnt say unlimited time in game. It doesnt disclose WHERE there are limits, and where there are not. It just says Unlimited Free Play. Which by the wikitionary definition is: limitless or without bounds; unrestricted. And by princeton wordnet: S: (adj) unlimited, limitless (having no limits in range or scope) "to start with a theory of unlimited freedom is to end up with unlimited despotism"- Philip Rahv; "the limitless reaches of outer space"

I understand the need for their business model (lol, trying to get 30 mil and people only willing to invest 6m in a dying company). They just need to stop the false advertisement.

As far as I can tell, 'free play' implies that you can log on to the game for free and play it for an unlimited amount of time. That is the simplest (and therefore most logical) interpretation. There is no need for them to specify that 'time' is implied. However, even if it wasn't, it is possible to achieve everything in the game without paying a cent (you would just have to be willing to grind your life away). Whether or not you are capped at level 4 and/or unable to reach every quest in the game is inconsequential. You can play for free for an unlimited time. There is nothing ambiguous or dishonest about their claim, and to believe otherwise would suggest that you have lived in a litigious society for far too long. I, for one, don't need a box of matches to warn me that 'this item may ignite and cause fire', but I guess some folks need the help. Nor do I care that my box of Frosties has '50% more' than some unspecified unknown, or that Best Buy really wasn't the best buy.

Pwesiela
10-06-2009, 12:05 PM
Just as an aside. Do they pay you shills or something? I've had like 5 people say "LOL UNLIMITED TIME" which isn't what the advertisement is.

I wish. It would help pay for tuition.

It states that the game has "Unlimited free play." What is unlimited? Free play. The advertising statement includes its very own disclaimer. You can play for free all you want.

Also as an aside, I've been avoiding the more accusatory comments that you've made about me, but I would suggest that you re-read the EULA that you probably skipped when signing up.

Kiraxa
10-06-2009, 12:05 PM
Once again, you're using the turbine shill definition of unlimited. Which is never disclosed. And is an uncommon definition of unlimited. Let me repeat, I DO NOT MIND the business model. I am only bothered by the advertising.

Kiraxa
10-06-2009, 12:07 PM
Also as an aside, I've been avoiding the more accusatory comments that you've made about me, but I would suggest that you re-read the EULA that you probably skipped when signing up.
I don't read EULAs since they've been upheld in court as unenforceable. They're just pointless wastes of time put there by legal teams with nothing better to do than fill up pages with text that can be summarized in 5 sentences.

Pwesiela
10-06-2009, 12:09 PM
Once again, you're using the turbine shill definition of unlimited. Which is never disclosed. And is an uncommon definition of unlimited. Let me repeat, I DO NOT MIND the business model. I am only bothered by the advertising.

Then let me repeat. You're wanting to apply "unlimited" outside the context of the advertisement. Application of anything outside of its context is a recipe for disaster. Where does the truth in advertising act state that all ads must come with a disclosed, indexed, and cross referenced definition of terms?

KoboldKiller
10-06-2009, 12:09 PM
I don't read EULAs since they've been upheld in court as unenforceable. They're just pointless wastes of time put there by legal teams with nothing better to do than fill up pages with text that can be summarized in 5 sentences.

Unenforceable in court or not keep ignoring the EULA and we won't have to worry about your posting anymore.

Rekker
10-06-2009, 12:10 PM
Unlimited means you can replay the free content all you want...its unlimited.

Pwesiela
10-06-2009, 12:12 PM
I don't read EULAs since they've been upheld in court as unenforceable. They're just pointless wastes of time put there by legal teams with nothing better to do than fill up pages with text that can be summarized in 5 sentences.

A small, but vital clarification. Court's have refused to uphold certain sections of EULA's because the clauses in question have violated some part of public policy, statute, or contract. You are bound by contract to abide by each and every EULA you don't read but acquiesce to. No court has ever held that the DDO forum EULA is illegal. Sorry. But you're stuck.

Kiraxa
10-06-2009, 12:12 PM
Unlimited means you can replay the free content all you want...its unlimited.

Well, turbine shill, if they clearly stated that in the advert we wouldn't have a problem, now would we?

Pwesiela
10-06-2009, 12:13 PM
unenforceable In Court Or Not Keep Ignoring The Eula And We Won't Have To Worry About Your Posting Anymore.

/qft

Kiraxa
10-06-2009, 12:14 PM
btw you old timer shills are giving me great laughs, so thanks. Helps to laugh away a hangover.

KoboldKiller
10-06-2009, 12:15 PM
Well, turbine shill, if they clearly stated that in the advert we wouldn't have a problem, now would we?

And if you weren't being so myopic and/or obtuse you would see what was actually being advertised.

Pwesiela
10-06-2009, 12:15 PM
btw you old timer shills are giving me great laughs, so thanks. Helps to laugh away a hangover.

Are we...deflecting?

KoboldKiller
10-06-2009, 12:16 PM
Me thinks someone just learned a new word in class yesterday hence the constant use of the word SHILL.

Kiraxa
10-06-2009, 12:17 PM
Are we...deflecting?

Nah. I was just thanking you for the laughs because its pointless to have a discussion with you shills. Your blinders don't allow you see the blatant false advertising. Which amuses me greatly. So thank you.

Pwesiela
10-06-2009, 12:18 PM
Me thinks someone just learned a new word in class yesterday hence the constant use of the word SHILL.

Heck, I had to look it up!:D

Does that mean that I don't even know my own job description? Man, I'm a bad employee. Why do they keep me around? :p

MissErres
10-06-2009, 12:18 PM
Me thinks someone just learned a new word in class yesterday hence the constant use of the word SHILL.

I would like to discuss what the term "IS" is and it's meaning.


... now where did I put that stick and where did that damn horse wander off to??

Kiraxa
10-06-2009, 12:19 PM
Me thinks someone just learned a new word in class yesterday hence the constant use of the word SHILL.

Nah. Just using the Duck Principle. If it walks like a shill, talks like a shill... its a shill.

Pwesiela
10-06-2009, 12:20 PM
Nah. I was just thanking you for the laughs because its pointless to have a discussion with you shills. Your blinders don't allow you see the blatant false advertising. Which amuses me greatly. So thank you.

Then please, explain to me how you can take a single advertisement, where "unlimited" applies to "free play", and then justify expanding that same "unlimited" to game content?

KoboldKiller
10-06-2009, 12:22 PM
Nah. I was just thanking you for the laughs because its pointless to have a discussion with you shills. Your blinders don't allow you see the blatant false advertising. Which amuses me greatly. So thank you.


Enlighten us then oh grand wizard. We have all stated (including my own example) that you CAN IN FACT PLAY THIS GAME ALL YOU WANT FOR FREE. The banner says UNLIMITED FREE PLAY, thus meaning you can play for FREE. So since you seem to consider yourself the legal genius (or maybe just a first year law student) explain how this is false advertising.

Missing_Minds
10-06-2009, 12:23 PM
Nah. Just using the Duck Principle. If it walks like a shill, talks like a shill... its a shill.

Which does not work in a court of law, much like your own accusations.

If you are really that serious, I suggest you find a lawyer to represent yourself.

Pwesiela
10-06-2009, 12:24 PM
So since you seem to consider yourself the legal genius (or maybe just a first year law student) explain how this is false advertising.

I'd hate to see his torts grade.

Oh, wait. I'd actually like to see that.

If he's a law student, at least.

KoboldKiller
10-06-2009, 12:24 PM
You know I just realized that once again I fell for the Troll bait. Man I really need to go to rehab for that stuff.

Kiraxa
10-06-2009, 12:26 PM
Enlighten us then oh grand wizard. We have all stated (including my own example) that you CAN IN FACT PLAY THIS GAME ALL YOU WANT FOR FREE. The banner says UNLIMITED FREE PLAY, thus meaning you can play for FREE. So since you seem to consider yourself the legal genius (or maybe just a first year law student) explain how this is false advertising.

Because there are limits to the free play. Ingame limits. When you're discussing free play for a game, its important to note just WHAT you're getting for free. Imagine if you will, a company advertised UNLIMITED FREE PLAY. But once you got in game, all you could do is sit and stare at your character, with a big box saying "please insert 14.99 to do these quests." Its a more extreme version of what Turbine has done, but its the same vein. By setting up an expectation of unlimited (Most common definition meaning without limits.), and without any fine print/legalese to the contrary, they are perpetrating a false advertisement. They dont even have to change the advert at all, just where it links to would work. Instead of going straight to the ddo front page, it should go to the /vip page, that explains the differences in services.

Pwesiela
10-06-2009, 12:26 PM
You know I just realized that once again I fell for the Troll bait. Man I really need to go to rehab for that stuff.

But it's sooooooooooo addictive. Almost as bad as my fruit snack addiction. :p

Cedwin
10-06-2009, 12:26 PM
It says "Unlimited Free Play", it doesn't say Unlimited Everything....

"Free Play" consists of the harbor, some stuff in the marketplace, and a few house quests.. I don't get how you are reading in between some imaginary lines that state everything is free... ???

MissErres
10-06-2009, 12:27 PM
You know I just realized that once again I fell for the Troll bait. Man I really need to go to rehab for that stuff.

Naw, it's like a bad bottle of beer.... sometimes great to cook with.

/hands KK and MM some popcorn. ;)

Pwesiela
10-06-2009, 12:28 PM
Because there are limits to the free play. Ingame limits.

Once again, you're expanding the advertisement beyond it's limits.


Instead of going straight to the ddo front page, it should go to the /vip page, that explains the differences in services.

Everything you ever wanted to know can be found by a link on that homepage. So really, it does link you to the central repository for all knowledge DDO.

Kiraxa
10-06-2009, 12:28 PM
Which does not work in a court of law, much like your own accusations.

If you are really that serious, I suggest you find a lawyer to represent yourself.

Filing a false advertisement claim doesn't require lawyers. Just have to get to the post office and send a letter. Just a PITA to do so. Hurray, being crippled! So fun.

Pwesiela
10-06-2009, 12:29 PM
/hands KK and MM some popcorn. ;)

:(

MissErres
10-06-2009, 12:30 PM
:(

Sorry P... do you want butter on yours?

Pwesiela
10-06-2009, 12:31 PM
Filing a false advertisement claim doesn't require lawyers. Just have to get to the post office and send a letter. Just a PITA to do so. Hurray, being crippled! So fun.

You don't have to go to the post office. Just put the letter in your outgoing mail for the mailman to pick up at your very own house!

The wonders of the modern post office operation never cease to amaze me. :eek:

Pwesiela
10-06-2009, 12:32 PM
Sorry P... do you want butter on yours?

cheese?

Tarrant
10-06-2009, 12:32 PM
I'm sorry you feel that our advertising is misleading. Good luck in whatever game you end up in.