PDA

View Full Version : Adventure Pack Prices



Cyr
10-05-2009, 12:53 PM
Some packs received less then glowing response upon their original release and that has hardly gotten better with time. These include Catacombs and Necro 1-4. They are all also priced much higher then they should be. In fact, many of the low level packs include short dungeons with large price tags. Offenders here include Necro 1-3, 3 Barrel Cove, and Tangleroot. The last one is a fan favorite at least so it will still sell, but not nearly as well as if it had been priced more reasonably.

The price point of 700 TP is a great point to work from. Great adventure packs should be about that price. Those that have huge replay value, long quests, and lots of them. Gianthold and the vale are prime examples of these. Gianthold might be a tad bit high, but Vale is perfectly priced. STK is another reasonably priced pack. It is small, but fun. It is also costs about $2, which is about right. It's an inexpensive purchase that someone can justify for an afternoon of playing it (even if they never do again). On the other hand they buy catacombs or Necro 1 and get annoyed at the game and might think that if this is what P2P has to offer why bother? Those packs should be either F2P or very cheap. The better received packs should be those that have the higher price point. Even if a pack 'seems' to have lots of dungeons if it is one of those packs where buyers remorse seems possible or even probably it should be priced very low. This also follows with the basic concept of micro-transactions where small prices are paid for small services. Those small services in DDO terms are catacombs and the necro series :) Where Gianthold might be considered a Big Mac instead of a dollar menu purchase.

Impaqt
10-05-2009, 12:59 PM
Tangleroot and 3 Barrel cove also include the Explorer zone. Thats a massive source of XP and hours of gameplay.

Personally, I think LotD Parts 1-3 should be Free to play. Adventure pack the Orchard and Raid.

Catacombes is a great quest series. Its just neglected due to Location. Its off the beaten path and by the tme your solidly inthe harbor, youve outleveld the first couple quests nthe series.

I've always felt Catacombs should be moved to the harbor. Its an awesome quest series and one of the very best story lines in the game.

Zenako
10-05-2009, 01:21 PM
Plus check out the upgraded end rewards from some of those quests. Very useful around the levesl you should be running those quests.

The old bias against certain quests was partly based on a TIME/EXP earned paradigm. The Experience awards in many of the previously ignored quests is a lot larger now, bringing them solidly into the mix, while the old core chains are little changed.

Cyr
10-05-2009, 01:24 PM
Tangleroot and 3 Barrel cove also include the Explorer zone. Thats a massive source of XP and hours of gameplay.

Personally, I think LotD Parts 1-3 should be Free to play. Adventure pack the Orchard and Raid.

Catacombes is a great quest series. Its just neglected due to Location. Its off the beaten path and by the tme your solidly inthe harbor, youve outleveld the first couple quests nthe series.

I've always felt Catacombs should be moved to the harbor. Its an awesome quest series and one of the very best story lines in the game.

3 Barrel Cove costs in the same ballpark as the Vale. Explorer Zones are already included in the cost estimate. All the high level packs which were received much better also have explorer zones attached. I would rate an explorer zone around the same level as a single dungeon of 20-30 minute duration.

Zenako
10-05-2009, 01:31 PM
3 Barrel Cove costs in the same ballpark as the Vale. Explorer Zones are already included in the cost estimate. All the high level packs which were received much better also have explorer zones attached. I would rate an explorer zone around the same level as a single dungeon of 20-30 minute duration.

Gonna disagree on that one. 3BC is a huge and wonderful explorer zone for characters of that level. Unlike some explorer zones which are amazingly linear once you run them a few times, 3BC is pretty wide open. To really explore the island, and all the mobs and explorers would take hours. It comes about the closest of any of the explorer zones to feeling like a wilderness adventure. The terrain is normal, the housing and buildings all natural. Clearly something of mega nature happened in the world to end up with ships on top of mountains. With the ~9-10 quests in the zone it really seems like a good value. About the only real complaint I can see merit to is that there are really no really nice named items from those quests.

Impaqt
10-05-2009, 01:33 PM
3 Barrel Cove costs in the same ballpark as the Vale. Explorer Zones are already included in the cost estimate. All the high level packs which were received much better also have explorer zones attached. I would rate an explorer zone around the same level as a single dungeon of 20-30 minute duration.

20-30 Minutes? Theres you problem. You dotn see the value in the explorer areas if thats al the time your spending. Except for Searing Heights (Because I ahte that explorer areas) I spent at least a coupel hours in each Explorer zone while leveling my latest character. probobly spent an entire Experience Elixer in the desert and Gianthold.

Zenako
10-05-2009, 01:36 PM
20-30 Minutes? Theres you problem. You dotn see the value in the explorer areas if thats al the time your spending. Except for Searing Heights (Because I ahte that explorer areas) I spent at least a coupel hours in each Explorer zone while leveling my latest character. probobly spent an entire Experience Elixer in the desert and Gianthold.

I just viewed Searing Heights as the Explorer area that was linked to the old Swiped Signet (before it was made easier) and the Proof is in the Poison quests. Lots of them sneaky thieves and caster types to overcome. Kinda a real proving ground quest/areas to see how effective a character or group was at handling a challenge. It was a personal point of pride when my at level rogue was able to solo thru it.

The area has a significantly increased level range now, but it does not look like that changed the actual mobs much if any.

Cyr
10-05-2009, 01:40 PM
Plus check out the upgraded end rewards from some of those quests. Very useful around the levesl you should be running those quests.

The old bias against certain quests was partly based on a TIME/EXP earned paradigm. The Experience awards in many of the previously ignored quests is a lot larger now, bringing them solidly into the mix, while the old core chains are little changed.

Better end rewards help time/exp calculations. They do not however make dungeons longer (catacombs, 3-B cove) or less monotonous (Necro 1-3). Also a big side note here is that these prices should be set to sell the product and with all the previously mentioned products being in the level ranges where F2P players have content already available to them to play it only makes sense that even if the content was just as good as higher level content (which F2P do not get any of for free) a price cut needs to be figured in to encourage purchases. There is also the desirability discount inherent in many of these products due to the number quests (in game total)/level ratio. This math gets even worse when you also consider the #quests you have to run/level also.

Angelus_dead
10-05-2009, 01:51 PM
It is SO hiliarious that Necropolis IV is priced higher than Vale (or Shavarath). Even if we pretend that quality problems with Necropolis have all been fixed, it still just doesn't make sense:

Necropolis IV:
1 Explorer + 5 quests + 1 raid, mid-level, okay loot

Vale of Twilight:
2 Explorer + 5 quests + 3 raids, higher-level, better loot

So why is Necro IV 850 points but Vale only 700? That's just silly.

Zenako
10-05-2009, 01:52 PM
Better end rewards help time/exp calculations. They do not however make dungeons longer (catacombs, 3-B cove) or less monotonous (Necro 1-3). Also a big side note here is that these prices should be set to sell the product and with all the previously mentioned products being in the level ranges where F2P players have content already available to them to play it only makes sense that even if the content was just as good as higher level content (which F2P do not get any of for free) a price cut needs to be figured in to encourage purchases. There is also the desirability discount inherent in many of these products due to the number quests (in game total)/level ratio. This math gets even worse when you also consider the #quests you have to run/level also.

Well just a couple of thought on the "length" of dungeons. I know that most of 3BC tended to be run by many players as afterthough favor runs with high level toons. Those toons could blow thru/ignore all mobs along the way to quest objectives and those quests would take only a handful of minutes. However, when running them at level, most of them would take a decent amount of time. The shortest of the quests, (Fire Caves) is a two parter, with both parts taking 10-15 minutes or so, if you know the quest. First timers will almost certainly take longer. If you go back and add up all the play time for all quests in a pack, that might help to compare values. Then put a price tag/value on cool loot as well. (End Loot really helps the Sharn series.)

As for variety, I can think of no other pack that offers more variety than 3BC. Quests with lots of puzzles and traps (prove your worth), quests with mostly undead, quests with lots of trogs, quests with mostly fire critters, quests with minotaurs and elementals, quests with defend a ship from being boarded by invaders, a diverse explorer zone with orcs, humans, shaughin, kobolds, priates, mephits, packs of dogs, spiders, etc. Some really cool settings and landscapes.

Something like TR is frankly pretty boring. Once you find out that you run the front part of the complex what is it like, 6 times? There are not many quests were you can actually ransack chests during normal running of the quest. A lot of players liked TR because it could be a mindless zergfest with ease and often was.

Cyr
10-05-2009, 02:00 PM
20-30 Minutes? Theres you problem. You dotn see the value in the explorer areas if thats al the time your spending. Except for Searing Heights (Because I ahte that explorer areas) I spent at least a coupel hours in each Explorer zone while leveling my latest character. probobly spent an entire Experience Elixer in the desert and Gianthold.

I said on par with a 20-30 minute dungeon. Do you only run dungeons once? So maybe an hour to two hours are spent in explorer zones by me on average when leveling. Which puts it right on par with that 20-30 minute dungeon for me.

And Zen 3-B Cove is very pretty, but it is also out of the way and in a level range packed with other more popular options. It also contains very short quests for the most part scattered around the zone. EDIT: Looking at your post above this I agree 100% that 3B Cove has some fun little stuff. I liked Prove your Worth, but you want to know how many of my at the time ~30 guildies were willing to run it? 3 including me. I am sure plenty of peps still have it as a 0 under their favor. It's not because it is bad. It's because it is out of the way (time/xp ratio which TR excels at), has lots of other quests of the same level as it, and drops pretty much nothing interesting (at least when it came out, they may have changed that since).

3B Cove is ~ the price of the Vale. Those quests are very popular and people loved them. How many Shroud LFM's do you see up in one day still? I'm not arguing 3-B Cove is a piece of junk, I'm arguing the price point for it does not make sense if Turbine wants to maximize profits. People in game who are vets are astonished when I tell them what the lower level adventure packs are priced at. Remember also that the assumption here is that you want players to buy one pack and like it and buy more. These players are mostly new players. That means every one of their buddies has to buy that pack for them to play it together. They have lots of options for those level ranges already and even more options for adventure packs. When they hit 12 though... Well then they all know that Gianthold is the quest pack for them. They hit 15 and then it is Vale. They hit 17 and then they can get a cheaper pack (reaver's refuge) or go double down and buy the brand new one Amarath (very wisely priced a little bit below Vale even though it is brand new).