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Shade
10-05-2009, 08:48 AM
Since the cats out of the bag that this is coming.. Here my suggestion of how it should work. Similar to my old Legendary Mode idea, just re-tuned to be more insane, and more Epic.

One of the thing's I love about DDO is that it has it's challenge. Where other mmo's are simply level based grinders, DDO offers some real twitch and strategy based challenge which I enjoy.

Pre word: I realise this wouldn't be a popular feature for most players, as the DDO crowd seems more about "Give me my loot" then "I want a challenge", but either way it would add allot to the game.

How I would have it:

-Must be unlocked. Via defeating every raid in the game on elite. Alternatively by getting 2800+ favor.. Tho I'd prefer a more challenge option then a grind option, so the raids seems good. Once unlocked must be enabled in options, and a warning comes up "WARNING: This mode is not even remotely fair, it was not tested so many quests may be impossible on this mode, are you sure you wish to enable it?"

- Works like other difficulties, must defeat said quest/raid on elite for it to be available.
- Once someone is inside, anyone in the group may enter regardless if they've unlocked it or not like all other quests. All players get the big warning when entering.


Monsters

Every quest with this mode enable is re-tuned to level20 (tho i'd prefer the difficulty just being available for every quest I believe this is how it will work). Monsters stats are similar to what you see on the current elite Barbazu in lvl19 elite quests except:

+50% hitpoints
+50% damage dealt in melee
+25% damage dealt by spells
+10-20 AC (AC's are pathetically low currently)
+4 Spell/Feat Save DCs
+2 Saves/Spell resistance
Where appropriate, certain quests have allot more monsters and faster respawn rates for quests featuring respawns.
Encounters previously nerfed to be easier (like changing Rust monsters to spiders in Threnal East 3) are now back to normal, only worse. Threnal East 3 Epic: 6 Gargantuan Rust monsters at a time. Coyle cannot be knocked out and gets 2 shot by them.
All monsters are immune to vorpal, but not other insta kills. Epic characters relying on weapons that ignore all character DPS because monsters HP just plain requires more then 20 swings is dumb, so this is the only solution.
(Stats are versus elite mode)


Traps


-Traps deal MASSIVE damage. 1000+ damage per hit. Fire traps deal 2000+ as theres more ways to absorb fire damage.
-The reflex save DCs are about 70, making them only possible to make by maxxed Dex rogues on a good roll.
-WASD+Space-bar skills are how your expected to navigate them, not need a insane rogue.
- Disable DC's are increased substationally, so only a pure rogue with acceptable INT and action boost activated has a 50% chance of disabling it - only a maxed mechanic trapbuild can do it with 100% success rate. Failures means the trapbox explodes idealling massive damage in a very wide range AOE, DC80 Save, 1000 fire/acid damage. Critical failure does the same, but no save, 2000 damage, and imposes a triple death penalty also. No re-trying on regular fails. Teach players to stand back while rogues are dealing with traps the hard way!


XP, Loot and Favor:

The real incentive for this mode should be the challenge, not the reward.. But some small increase wouldn't hurt.

XP first time on Epic +75%, otherwise base same as elite. Flawless Victory gives +20% instead of +10%.
Loot is the same as other high level quests on elite. We don't want to give players a loot incentive making epic the "lootrun mode" elite often is.
Favor is increased as normal, So if 11 like titan, 22 on hard, 33 on elite, 44 on Epic. Think this would allow for a 5000 pnt favor reward:
But do not make it something new players feel they must have to play like drow or 32 point builds. Instead have it be a small boon just to show you are truely an insane DDO player. Like some kind of armor/shield/robe that looks really awesome, but doesn't have that good stats, perhaps just Dragontouched armor that looks different. So when people see you in it, they know.. But they don't feel too envious because its no better then what they have.


Death


- Always double death penalty, like phase5 shroud elite.
- Releasing and re-entering the quest = -100% XP
- Rezzing works like the old-school system.. IE all spellpoints are lost on a raise dead, 50% on a ressurection and none on a true rez.
- Rez Shrines do a resurrection, 50% spells points lost.
- Rest Shrines restore only 50% of spell points. But still full abilities like like turn undead, action boost, etc.
- Death penalty regenerates like now, except after your 5th death, it no longer regenerates at all until you use a shrine or get hit with unyielding soverenty.
- You cannot be raised more then 10 times. After more then 10 deaths you can remain in the quest dead for completion if your party wins.


Restrictions


- You cannot use any store items. Includes mana pots, shrines, stat potions, etc.
- After 60-90 minutes in a quest - All monsters respawn, Boss monsters regenerate to full health. Quests flagged short are 60 minutes, medium 70minuits, very long 90 minutes.


Sounds awful to lots of you im sure. But awesome to me. :D

redoubt
10-05-2009, 12:10 PM
XP, Loot and Favor:

The real incentive for this mode should be the challenge, not the reward.. But some small increase wouldn't hurt.

XP first time on Epic +75%, otherwise base same as elite. Flawless Victory gives +20% instead of +10%.
Loot is the same as other high level quests on elite. We don't want to give players a loot incentive making epic the "lootrun mode" elite often is.
Favor is increased as normal, So if 11 like titan, 22 on hard, 33 on elite, 44 on Epic. Think this would allow for a 5000 pnt favor reward:
But do not make it something new players feel they must have to play like drow or 32 point builds. Instead have it be a small boon just to show you are truely an insane DDO player. Like some kind of armor/shield/robe that looks really awesome, but doesn't have that good stats, perhaps just Dragontouched armor that looks different. So when people see you in it, they know.. But they don't feel too envious because its no better then what they have.


Its better than the last time you suggested this.

I like that you have decided not to increase loot. I don't really like the increase in favor either though. (Not having a favor reward that increases power is a step in the right direction I think, though.)

Some things I would want to make sure happened include:
1. minimal dev time in producing. (Really, minimal, like put in a scaling factor and walk away, no testing etc, like you said in the warning.) I would prefer the devs made new content to revamping existing content again.
2. no benifit to completing epic. No extra favor. No extra loot. (Maybe a little more xp.) If you are that bad ass, then what do you care if anyone else knows it.

moops
10-05-2009, 12:17 PM
How bout just plain Epic Mode?

I mean really, many of us re roll--we shouldn't have to do all the content over to do Tempest Spine on Epic Mode.

Obviously if it was super hard and costly--people wouldn't bring Noobs, and the Noobs wouldn't want to do it anyway--only who can come here and when since it's EPIC MODE?

So you wouldnt need all those goofy rules.

Shade
10-05-2009, 08:41 PM
I mean really, many of us re roll--we shouldn't have to do all the content over to do Tempest Spine on Epic Mode.

Not sure what you mean?

Maybe you mean the unlocking terms?

That should work like other favor rewards.. 1 character earns it, and its unlocked for that entire server - all characters, all rerolls. (or perhaps even entire account in this case)

FluffyCalico
10-05-2009, 08:46 PM
Might as well call it bored barbarian mode.

Spisey
10-05-2009, 08:51 PM
Like some kind of armor/shield/robe that looks really awesome, but doesn't have that good stats, perhaps just Dragontouched armor that looks different. So when people see you in it, they know.. But they don't feel too envious because its no better then what they have.


I so want Spisey to wear the DQ bra as armor! Add that and a lamp shade helm, he'll be the life of the party! :D:p

Tharris
10-05-2009, 08:56 PM
I would just like to see AOE spells affect everyone in the Dugeon. Mobs and PC's.

Is most likely to be attempted by guilds or static groups, so should be minimal griefing.

jakeelala
10-05-2009, 08:56 PM
yeah nice but what you've described is basically the Axer mode. No one would play though because you would require 5 healers, and I think other players would want to play more than just an Axer healer.

but who knows, I can't believe how often you get 5 healer groups as it is.

redoubt
10-06-2009, 07:24 AM
Might as well call it bored barbarian mode.

Awesome.

I called him out on that very thing last time he posted this idea, but he didn't understand that what he was suggesting was, fairly obviously, and entire game mechanic for his favorite build/playstyle which no others would do well in.

But I like the name, so plus one for you! :D

Shade
10-06-2009, 07:30 AM
I called him out on that very thing last time he posted this idea, but he didn't understand that what he was suggesting was, fairly obviously, and entire game mechanic for his favorite build/playstyle which no others would do well in.


I understand it. It's a compliment, saying my build should be able to handle epic encounters. Thankyou.

Not sure about the no others idea. Pretty sure there are hundreds of players who use my build and do well with it.

Shade
01-23-2011, 03:53 AM
I still like my original idea for epic. Tho without the re-tuning each quest to level20.

Just change the name to Nightmare mode and put it in please =)

For all quests, and make no attempts to balance it per quest. I want my Nightmare mode!