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spyyder976
10-05-2009, 01:13 AM
Well, even Star Wars Galaxies gives players the ability to create their own quests now. City of Heroes/Villains has had it for a little while now. I suggested this to you years ago. Are you going to wait until every other online game does it before you give it to us?

SimVerg
10-05-2009, 01:19 AM
Well, even Star Wars Galaxies gives players the ability to create their own quests now. City of Heroes/Villains has had it for a little while now. I suggested this to you years ago. Are you going to wait until every other online game does it before you give it to us?

Quest creation in CoX is actually a fairly significant problem for the devs. Player created quests would either be underutilized due to a dearth of rewards or exploited due to an overabundance. The CoX solution(banhammer quests and remove the rewards previously granted by them or accounts) is manpower intensive and creates a lot of bad press/player sentiment.

Borror0
10-05-2009, 01:20 AM
Well, even Star Wars Galaxies gives players the ability to create their own quests now.
I believe you posted this in the wrong forums. This clearly states that this is the suggestion forums, and this is clearly not a suggestion.

Hmmm... maybe we should ask Tolero for a "I want to complain that DDO does not have as many features as a six years old game with a massive production budget and had star developers working for it" forums. Though, that would be a bit long of a name. How about IWTCTDDODNHAMFAA6YOGWAMPDAHSDWFI for short?

City of Heroes/Villains has had it for a little while now.
Yes, and it proved to be full of exploits and bugs.

Delt
10-05-2009, 01:24 AM
It's been a while so correct me if I'm wrong, but SWG "quests" consisted of basically terminal fetch and kill quests. CoH (also been a while) was similar with simplistic application (I can't remember if it was exterior only or random interiors as well...it's muddled in my brain with Freedom Force).

Either way, I can't see DDO ever doing anything similar...it's a totally different type of game and totally different style/quality of content.

spyyder976
10-05-2009, 01:30 AM
This always has been and still is a suggestion by many players; I don't see how you could think it isn't. And I hope you don't believe that players hate the mission creating system in COX, because it's been going strong ever since they implemented it and it has created a huge boost in play from many who were taking time off from boredom from doing the same old things. So in that game they made the missions virtual missions; they also created a ton of badges and unique rewards that can only be gotten from doing player-made missions. So what if the same type of loot doesn't drop as from regular missions? Nobody cares. Your argument to my suggestion is lame.

Uska
10-05-2009, 01:43 AM
SWG is a lot simpler game then this one and I really doubt there is any danger of anyone really making a game damaging quest there, I really wish they would bury that sad old game was good before NGE and great before CU Player made content for this game would be a HUGE mistake arguing against that just proves the DENIAL isnt just a river in Egypt

spyyder976
10-05-2009, 01:44 AM
It's been a while so correct me if I'm wrong, but SWG "quests" consisted of basically terminal fetch and kill quests. CoH (also been a while) was similar with simplistic application (I can't remember if it was exterior only or random interiors as well...it's muddled in my brain with Freedom Force).

Either way, I can't see DDO ever doing anything similar...it's a totally different type of game and totally different style/quality of content.

SWG has much more than just terminal quests, and it always has. It has been going for many years, and there's been a ton of content added to the game. And while their implementation of this quest creation system is rudimentary at first glance, it gives you a lot of room to combine tons of different objectives into totally unique stories, and the more you write and play these quests (you buy/sell/trade your created quest holocrons so others can play them or you can play them yourself), the more you can do with the system, as you level up as a Chronicler in addition to your chosen profession.

And um no, CoX is much much more than a simplistic application. You can do an outrageous amount of creation, many of which are as good as or better than dev content. You'd have to actually try it to understand just how in-depth it really is. I also think it's ridiculous for anyone to come here and say that completing simple objectives in any game is just not fun, as that is the basis of ALL these games, including DDO. Many players make missions on other games that blow the quality of some of DDO's quests out of the water, so don't even scream that DDO pwns on the quality quests.

Finally, I came on here to make a suggestion. Trolls can go back under their bridges. Every time anyone speaks on these forums, everyone jumps up and acts like they know everything and does his best to contradict everything everyone else says. This got tired years ago. Find something else to do with your time.

Memnir
10-05-2009, 01:46 AM
Yes, those games implemented player-made Shake 'n' Bake quests... and I fervently hope the DDO Devs are smart enough not to make similar mistakes with this game. Too much abuse potential - and actual abuse as well, come to think of it - to make it a good use of Dev time to monitor. I'd rather see new content come from the Devs - since nearly all quests in DDO have a level of polish and detail I really admire.

spyyder976
10-05-2009, 01:53 AM
SWG is a lot simpler game then this one and I really doubt there is any danger of anyone really making a game damaging quest there, I really wish they would bury that sad old game was good before NGE and great before CU Player made content for this game would be a HUGE mistake arguing against that just proves the DENIAL isnt just a river in Egypt

I left SWG after all the changes as well, but I did check it out again once I started back playing other SOE games b/c I already owned the game and the station pass was cheaper since I played multiple games. No it's not the same system, but I guarantee you the game is a gazillion times better now than it ever was. Those who continue to hate on the game haven't even played it in years because they got their panties in a wad over the way the combat and professions changed. They ran screaming away and mad about it all and have no idea what they're talking about when they hate on the game as it is today. I just find the whole thing hilarious, how so many people just loved the game so much that they got mad because things changed, but the game is better now and they're just missing out on the game the should still be loving. It's the same game with MORE to do than that old crappy version.

Althar
10-05-2009, 01:56 AM
Well, even Star Wars Galaxies gives players the ability to create their own quests now.

Please. SWG in its current state is easily one of the worst P2P games on the ma-- oh wait, it's not even on the market anymore. :(

spyyder976
10-05-2009, 01:56 AM
Yes, those games implemented player-made Shake 'n' Bake quests... and I fervently hope the DDO Devs are smart enough not to make similar mistakes with this game. Too much abuse potential - and actual abuse as well, come to think of it - to make it a good use of Dev time to monitor. I'd rather see new content come from the Devs - since nearly all quests in DDO have a level of polish and detail I really admire.

You under-estimate what players can do, but most of all how many quality quests would explode all over Eberron if they gave us the means to build them. Abuse potential isn't even a factor; don't give players the ability to do something you don't want them to do; there's no monitoring involved. One lame argument after another...I'll leave all of you to twiddle your thumbs and wait on your truckloads of dev content, which I'm sure will be arriving...soon.

spyyder976
10-05-2009, 02:02 AM
Please. SWG in its current state is easily one of the worst P2P games on the ma-- oh wait, it's not even on the market anymore. :(

Wrong. It has always been on the market. The original game right up to all of its paid expansions are still for sale. You don't know what you're talking about. And no, if you want to talk about worst, try Matrix Online, which had so few users they finally shut it down. And you are obviously one of those who know nothing about SWG's current state. How many years has it been since you played it, about 5? Do your homework before you open your mouth next time; I guarantee you it is tons better than it ever was back when everyone thought trying to unlock jedi was the coolest thing going; it was actually the stupidest game design ever made and one major reason they changed all the professions. Hey everybody, max out every skill on every profession's skill tree until you randomly find which one of your character's trees will unlock your jedi potential...LMAO. And everyone got mad because they changed that lol.

Memnir
10-05-2009, 02:04 AM
No, I don't underestimate players at all - I used to do a lot of custom content for Half-Life mods.I know all too well that often what the players who are passionate about a game can create is often on level to (and occasionally superior to) content that the Devs create.


However, I also don't underestimate the players in how many will seek to use the feature to exploit and shortcut as much as possible. And I know it takes Dev monitoring to make sure that such abuse does not occur. Realistically, DDO does not have the staff to conduct such monitoring. And I'd hate to see what staff they have working on the game diverted to oversee this sort of thing.

Players are creative in the ways they find to get around limitations - even when they don't have the tools to create content at their disposal... Jeets, anyone? There are many who would push and experiment until they found ways to break things. And believe me - players almost always find a way. I say that with my firsthand experience at making custom content.

spyyder976
10-05-2009, 02:06 AM
It doesn't have to be monitored...but just so you think you know what you're talking about, I'll let you believe that.

Borror0
10-05-2009, 02:11 AM
It doesn't have to be monitored
City of Heroes developers disagree with you. (http://www.massively.com/2009/05/05/matt-positron-miller-prepares-his-radioactive-banhammer-agains/)

I have no idea for SWG, since I have not followed that game too much, but CoH had a lot of problems (and still do) with player generated content.

Quanefel
10-05-2009, 02:18 AM
Star Wars Galaxies? Isn't that the game that changed it's game mid-stream, allowed everyone to be a Jedi Knight then 3/4's of players up and left? Or was that a different Star Wars game?

Memnir
10-05-2009, 02:19 AM
Okay - you're right... it doesn't have to be monitored...

It only needs to be monitored if the Devs care about stopping abuse and exploits. If you doubt that - please click on Borror's link above, which is from one of the very games you mentioned. The abuse happens, even if you want to poke your head in the sand and keep bleating that it doesn't exist. I know it exists because I saw it firsthand in my five years making custom skins, maps, and models for Team Fortress Classic and Day of Defeat (Half-Life mods).


A Dev from CoX has already countered your point better than I could. But hey, you want to keep acting like you know every corner of this topic and those who disagree with you are just trolls - that's cool. That's just one more thing you'll be wrong about, however.

Althar
10-05-2009, 08:02 AM
Wrong. It has always been on the market. The original game right up to all of its paid expansions are still for sale. You don't know what you're talking about. And no, if you want to talk about worst, try Matrix Online, which had so few users they finally shut it down. And you are obviously one of those who know nothing about SWG's current state. How many years has it been since you played it, about 5? Do your homework before you open your mouth next time; I guarantee you it is tons better than it ever was back when everyone thought trying to unlock jedi was the coolest thing going; it was actually the stupidest game design ever made and one major reason they changed all the professions. Hey everybody, max out every skill on every profession's skill tree until you randomly find which one of your character's trees will unlock your jedi potential...LMAO. And everyone got mad because they changed that lol.

Yeah, still for sale on the Sony website. When's the last time you saw it on a retail shelf? Granted, neither is DDO. I stopped playing SWG about six months ago and I still follow the development regularly, it's an incredibly unbalanced game with INCREDIBLY tedious and boring levelling, not to mention poor and dilluted end-game content that's been buggy since the instances were released. If SWG was really as good as you're claiming it to be they wouldn't have shut down over half their servers thanks to these Game Updates you apparently idolize.

Back on topic; How exactly do you suggest that they implement this player-made questing system? The entire game is built upon pre-built instances inside of public zones. Where would they be placed? They'd have to make an entire SDK kit just for people to make their own quests, then build an interface to acces them. The way I see it it simply isn't practical the way they have DDO set up right now.

Oh, and I'd like for you to tell me which other MMOs have player-built quests, because both of your examples have a very buggy system.

Hendrik
10-05-2009, 08:10 AM
Star Wars Galaxies? Isn't that the game that changed it's game mid-stream, allowed everyone to be a Jedi Knight then 3/4's of players up and left? Or was that a different Star Wars game?

Yea, think so! Same one that promised all these wonderful things for the professions/players. All for a low-low price. But they didn't tell you that they were taking your professions away. Same ones they were promoting.

Only time in memory a company had to give refunds for expansion packs due to the lies surrounding the expansion.

Mockduck
10-05-2009, 06:17 PM
There's just such a problem with it - the only reason people will run player created quests is if they get a reward for doing it. xp or loot. meanwhile, having xp or loot in player created quests will open the door for even more exploiting than we see in Turbine's produced quests. I personally would be 100% against any kind of reward for running player created content. Unless it was on its own server, then it might be all right.

I also think it's like the UI skins: people asked for them, then realized how incredibly time consuming and difficult a job it was and pretty much gave it up. Making DDO dungeons is not "easy" and takes tools made by Turbine for its games. Giving those tools to players would be disastrous! Making an "easier" creation system will take massive time and money.

Not saying it can't be done, just that it isn't likely to happen any time soon. And might very well be a huge mistake.

Impaqt
10-05-2009, 06:25 PM
Yeah, still for sale on the Sony website. When's the last time you saw it on a retail shelf?

Yesterday?

Best buy had a box set for like $80 that had all the expansions and stuff... I remeber because I said to myself "Who would spend $80 on a 6 year old game?"

melkor1702
10-05-2009, 06:51 PM
I believe you posted this in the wrong forums. This clearly states that this is the suggestion forums, and this is clearly not a suggestion.

Hmmm... maybe we should ask Tolero for a "I want to complain that DDO does not have as many features as a six years old game with a massive production budget and had star developers working for it" forums. Though, that would be a bit long of a name. How about IWTCTDDODNHAMFAA6YOGWAMPDAHSDWFI for short?

Yes, and it proved to be full of exploits and bugs.

Hey Borror0 I think you messed up the forum name it should be IWTCTDDODNHAMFAA6YOGWAMPBAHSDWFI :D

Borror0
10-05-2009, 06:59 PM
Hey Borror0 I think you messed up the forum name it should be IWTCTDDODNHAMFAA6YOGWAMPBAHSDWFI :D
You get +rep just for taking the time to see if I had got it right. XD

EDIT: ...in 24 hours.

MagicianBlade
10-05-2009, 07:24 PM
I believe you posted this in the wrong forums. This clearly states that this is the suggestion forums, and this is clearly not a suggestion.

Hmmm... maybe we should ask Tolero for a "I want to complain that DDO does not have as many features as a six years old game with a massive production budget and had star developers working for it" forums. Though, that would be a bit long of a name. How about IWTCTDDODNHAMFAA6YOGWAMPDAHSDWFI for short?

Yes, and it proved to be full of exploits and bugs.

I think you'd be significantly surprised at the extreme lack of funds and developers to SWG compared to pretty much anything else out there... The devs for SWGEMU are probably better and put more time into it ...

Borror0
10-05-2009, 07:25 PM
I think you'd be significantly surprised at the extreme lack of funds and developers to SWG compared to pretty much anything else out there...
I'm talking about the production budget and team, not the live or post-NGE one.

MagicianBlade
10-05-2009, 07:38 PM
I'm talking about the production budget and team, not the live or post-NGE one.

If SWG ever had any significant amount of backing, I'd be very surprised - Apparently, Lucasarts sold someone the license, and said "OK, here you go, have fun" and then they built.. something?! out of it. As a star wars fan (not a fanatic, however), I've looked at both major versions of that game, and said "what is this **** they are trying to sell?" (my gf and her mother, however, are avid fans of the pre-nge game .. and they try to explain why they enjoy it, and i'm constantly thinking "this sounds like game-hell why would you play this?")

There are reasonable solutions to the idea of user generated content. First, you can't just let EVERYONE do it. Well, you could, but then you'd end up with so many people trying to, and creating utter garbage, that you'd never get through it all.

(I can't remember the name of it, but someone is working on an MMO engine where this is actually one of the points - on the fly content creation and addition ...)

So, anyway..

(1) people need to achieve something in order to get the ability to do this (like, say, reach 20th level, or reach 20th level on 2 [or all] servers)
(2) devs need to post rules as to what absolutely is not to be done, as well as things that should be done
(3) devs would need to verify and approve content, which would then
(4) go to the test server

I'd like to actually add that I think that stocking your quest with loots/monsters/etc should probably actualyl be up to the devs, with suggestions going in from the generated content.

....

On the other hand, there could probably be all sorts of things done entirely with existing content, and new dialog paths and scripts. Much like Invaders and Waterworks are practically the same areas with different mobs (though I expect that Invaders is probably actually a copy of Waterworks, with the mobs changed, rather than actually using Waterworks and changing the mobs. .. there's a difference there.) .. one could take existing people, places, and things, and script them into entirely new things.

Lorien_the_First_One
10-05-2009, 07:45 PM
If SWG ever had any significant amount of backing, I'd be very surprised - Apparently, Lucasarts sold someone the license, and said "OK, here you go, have fun" and then they built.. something?! out of it. As a star wars fan (not a fanatic, however), I've looked at both major versions of that game, and said "what is this **** they are trying to sell?" (my gf and her mother, however, are avid fans of the pre-nge game .. and they try to explain why they enjoy it, and i'm constantly thinking "this sounds like game-hell why would you play this?")

There are reasonable solutions to the idea of user generated content. First, you can't just let EVERYONE do it. Well, you could, but then you'd end up with so many people trying to, and creating utter garbage, that you'd never get through it all.

(I can't remember the name of it, but someone is working on an MMO engine where this is actually one of the points - on the fly content creation and addition ...)

So, anyway..

(1) people need to achieve something in order to get the ability to do this (like, say, reach 20th level, or reach 20th level on 2 [or all] servers)
(2) devs need to post rules as to what absolutely is not to be done, as well as things that should be done
(3) devs would need to verify and approve content, which would then
(4) go to the test server

I'd like to actually add that I think that stocking your quest with loots/monsters/etc should probably actualyl be up to the devs, with suggestions going in from the generated content.

....

On the other hand, there could probably be all sorts of things done entirely with existing content, and new dialog paths and scripts. Much like Invaders and Waterworks are practically the same areas with different mobs (though I expect that Invaders is probably actually a copy of Waterworks, with the mobs changed, rather than actually using Waterworks and changing the mobs. .. there's a difference there.) .. one could take existing people, places, and things, and script them into entirely new things.

and who will QA it? check for xp balance? check for loot balance? look for accidental and deliberate exploits? help out players when they are bugged on live because of it?

hugely resource intensive, and thats after they make the tools easier enough to use and availble on the net.

Ranmaru2
10-05-2009, 07:53 PM
I think that User-Made Content would be a nice addition to DDO if it had a requirement to go through a screening process by the Devs (They could higher more people onto the project for this part). The greatest part about this would be that they could actually introduce another continent and have it where they could ask us to create quests along certain story lines. In this way, we could maybe get a more open ended continent along with Xen'drik and the stormreach quests.

Then again I do see it where the players would probably try making super easy quests for ridiculous amounts of xp, but that's where the UMC Q&A/Evaluation team could come from. Hell, some of the players here are coders and Q&A people, you could happily higher them onto the team! :)

Lorien_the_First_One
10-05-2009, 07:54 PM
You get +rep just for taking the time to see if I had got it right. XD

EDIT: ...in 24 hours.

got him for you :D

Borror0
10-05-2009, 07:56 PM
If SWG ever had any significant amount of backing, I'd be very surprised
No, it had a very decent backing especially in the staff they had. A lot of the MMO industry's big names worked on the game.

Apparently, Lucasarts sold someone the license, and said "OK, here you go, have fun" and then they built.. something?! out of it. As a star wars fan (not a fanatic, however), I've looked at both major versions of that game, and said "what is this **** they are trying to sell?" (my gf and her mother, however, are avid fans of the pre-nge game .. and they try to explain why they enjoy it, and i'm constantly thinking "this sounds like game-hell why would you play this?")
If you're a fan of the movies, it would not be surprising that the game seemed kind of "meh" to you.

However, it was hell of a sandbox MMO. They tried to make the game closer to what the movies portray with the NGE but we all know why it was a bad idea.

I can't remember the name of it, but someone is working on an MMO engine where this is actually one of the points - on the fly content creation and addition ...

You're probably thinking of Raph Koster's metaplace (http://www.metaplace.com/). If you are, it's more than an MMO engine.

Since it's on topic, Raph Koster was part of the SWG team.

(They could higher more people onto the project for this part)
I would be better to name players to police it. Spot a few trustworthy players and let them review the content.

Even there, it has several flaws but it's far more economic.

MagicianBlade
10-05-2009, 07:58 PM
and who will QA it? check for xp balance? check for loot balance? look for accidental and deliberate exploits? help out players when they are bugged on live because of it?

hugely resource intensive, and thats after they make the tools easier enough to use and availble on the net.

That's the only reasonable way to do something like that, IMO, without having what little balance you have in your game completely thrown out of whack. Any game. You can't just have anyone and/or everyone throwing stuff down, and having it instantly become part of the game, unless they can only use specific sets of pieces together, and it's nearly impossible for them to screw things up with them.

I didn't say that Turbine has or desired the manpower to actually be able to do something like that, just said that that's the only reasonable thing i can see to do. I've been involved with online fantasy games for decades, and the only ones that have been particularly successful all had their user generated content verified and checked by and approved by their devs/support staffs. (and no, i'm not talking FPS games, obviously that's a different fish entirely)

oberon131313
10-05-2009, 08:01 PM
SWG is doing some ok stuff, but the game is a lot less structured than DDO, which is what allows for stuff like this. And I say that as someone that played SWG from month 1, through the CU and NGE, until just under half a year ago.

Strakeln
10-05-2009, 10:16 PM
IMO, user-made maps are one of the main reasons Starcraft has been around for so long.

Lorien_the_First_One
10-05-2009, 10:20 PM
I would be better to name players to police it. Spot a few trustworthy players and let them review the content.

Even there, it has several flaws but it's far more economic.

We already know that the Mournland players have at times abused their advance look by keeping exploits to themselves, I suspect we'd see the same with a player cop patrol.

Lorien_the_First_One
10-05-2009, 10:22 PM
That's the only reasonable way to do something like that, IMO, without having what little balance you have in your game completely thrown out of whack. Any game. You can't just have anyone and/or everyone throwing stuff down, and having it instantly become part of the game, unless they can only use specific sets of pieces together, and it's nearly impossible for them to screw things up with them.

I didn't say that Turbine has or desired the manpower to actually be able to do something like that, just said that that's the only reasonable thing i can see to do. I've been involved with online fantasy games for decades, and the only ones that have been particularly successful all had their user generated content verified and checked by and approved by their devs/support staffs. (and no, i'm not talking FPS games, obviously that's a different fish entirely)

Agreed. The process you suggest would be needed, I was just pointing out that there would be overhead beyond that. Some people think this is like an FPS mod where everyone can code there own and its all good because it doesn't feed back into the permanent world/economy.

Borror0
10-06-2009, 03:29 AM
We already know that the Mournland players have at times abused their advance look by keeping exploits to themselves
1. The nature of beta testers like ML is to provide feedback that is more or less representative of the playerbase. As a result, you have to be less selective about your testers than when you're look for moderators (which is a more specific player profile).
2. Since you know who approved, you could remove that person's rights.
3. While true, it would be much more limited than if you had no control. Call it the lesser evil.

Twerpp
10-06-2009, 03:39 AM
If I had any desire whatsoever for this I would play PnP.

poonce
10-06-2009, 03:47 AM
Yes, those games implemented player-made Shake 'n' Bake I'd rather see new content come from the Devs - since nearly all quests in DDO have a level of polish and detail I really admire.

LMFAOROTFFL!! Wow man. Have you been to Giant Hold? Maybe you cant see to well, Please tell me you wear Bottle Cap Glasses?

I see more Polish and better Gfx in CoD2, and thats in DX9. Dont get me wrong, I like this game, But not because of the Gfx, Maybe I like it so much because it makes me laugh running behind atleast 1 person a Day that has a Horizontal Line (Glitch) In the back of their toons head. But no for real, The game play is whats keeping this game on its last limb.

Edit: Talking about the Polishing of the Devs of DDO, Wasnt that just the coolest thing you ever seen when Yar Yar's Shooner Blew up? Yup, It just turned your screen white, then Dissapeared, there wasnt even any noise or a boom or waves crashing, ect ect, But thats 1 Polished white screen, Ill tell you what!

Borror0
10-06-2009, 04:12 AM
LMFAOROTFFL!! Wow man. Have you been to Giant Hold? Maybe you cant see to well, Please tell me you wear Bottle Cap Glasses?

I see more Polish and better Gfx in CoD2, and thats in DX9.
The polish was obviously referring to the quality of the dungeons rather than the quality of the graphics.

zealous
10-06-2009, 04:17 AM
Agreed. The process you suggest would be needed, I was just pointing out that there would be overhead beyond that. Some people think this is like an FPS mod where everyone can code there own and its all good because it doesn't feed back into the permanent world/economy.
Well if you made it so that no xp nor loot carried over from the user made content it wouldn't feed back, how much work that would be to implement could be an issue though. And well, some players would never run any of them, some would though.

Then you can flag user quests being run often, i.e. count how many times people run it more than once. Have moderators check out popular quests and flag them as "interesting". "Interesting" quests can be "polished" by the devs and put into the game.

Still, would be a lot of work to set up the procedures + structures required. User made content seemed to work quite well for e.g. NWN though.

Kistilan
10-06-2009, 07:16 AM
There's just such a problem with it - the only reason people will run player created quests is if they get a reward for doing it. xp or loot. meanwhile, having xp or loot in player created quests will open the door for even more exploiting than we see in Turbine's produced quests. I personally would be 100% against any kind of reward for running player created content. Unless it was on its own server, then it might be all right.

I also think it's like the UI skins: people asked for them, then realized how incredibly time consuming and difficult a job it was and pretty much gave it up. Making DDO dungeons is not "easy" and takes tools made by Turbine for its games. Giving those tools to players would be disastrous! Making an "easier" creation system will take massive time and money.

Not saying it can't be done, just that it isn't likely to happen any time soon. And might very well be a huge mistake.

That's a REALLY good idea.

IF the Devs ever created a Player-Based Content Creation Tool, it should be viable only on a new server and never ported to the traditional servers. That way the imbalance of that server would not be the norm of the game, nor would abuse become a game-breaking issue. That server itself might be ridiculous, but no character-transfers off that server (maybe in if you want to go there, but not out) would be fine.

Kistilan
10-06-2009, 07:20 AM
If I had any desire whatsoever for this I would play PnP.

Same.

Or Neverwinter Nights.

Failstorm666
10-06-2009, 07:44 AM
NWN was just asking for outright abuse of its player-made content system

1. Use toolkit included with game to create a module with loads of high-end weapons and armor just lying on the ground. There were a few rather well-done ones that also leveled you to 20 for download.

2. Export now OP character.

3. Load the NWN campaign.

4. Import now OP character.

The reality is: player-made content is almost invariably ****, they weren't well-balanced, were poorly written (if it even had some attempt at a story), buggy, and thanks to the Hot Coffee fiasco, the ERSB nazis will try to rate the game based on content it didnt ship with

Saaluta
10-06-2009, 08:12 AM
/snip... I guarantee you it is tons better than it ever was back when everyone thought trying to unlock jedi was the coolest thing going; it was actually the stupidest game design ever made and one major reason they changed all the professions. Hey everybody, max out every skill on every profession's skill tree until you randomly find which one of your character's trees will unlock your jedi potential...LMAO. And everyone got mad because they changed that lol.

Yes, I beta tested SWG and played for 2.5 years...and the reason most of us got angry and left after the NGE was because we had spent countless hours grinding all 32 professions and unlocking our jedi when it was announced that now every 12 yo kid out there was going to be able to just walk into the game and get a jedi that we had worked so hard for...bah!!!!! And now everyone and their brother is coming to DDO expecting to get everything they want because they are now playing the game we all love so much and have been paying for for the last 3.5 years, but are unwilling to put any time or effort into it, well phooey on anyone that thinks they are entitled to just come in and be UBER on day 1.

There was an old joke that goes something like this:
A young man, new to New York, walks up to an older man and asks him, "Excuse me sir, how do I get to Carnegie Hall?"
The older man looks at the young one and says "Practice, practice, practice."

If you want to have good gear, and be uber, then eat your tasty ham and practice.

Saal :)

And as to player made content....I could care less either way.

Letrii
10-06-2009, 03:21 PM
IMO, user-made maps are one of the main reasons Starcraft has been around for so long.

Starcraft is an one-off game, we are talking MMOs with constant development cycle here.

poonce
10-06-2009, 03:44 PM
The polish was obviously referring to the quality of the dungeons rather than the quality of the graphics.

Well reguardless you could have just said that instead of giving me Neg Rep also. Just because you didnt like my post doesnt mean it wasnt true. It looks like my 9y/o Nephew approved the animation on Yar Yar's Schooner blowing up . . And they should be ashamed having them kind of Gfx in a game like this. To me Polish is the Content in whole, Not just the way a Dragon or Giant is Drawn, Or some walls in a quest that have pretty colors. Polish is something completely different, and Turbine Devs lack it. Have fun, Im sure you will Ninja this post also.

Also quality of Dungeons and Gfx mean the same thing per his post, how about you let him answer to my comment, cause he knows what he really means not you, So obviously you dont know what your talking about.

Avonwey
10-06-2009, 03:50 PM
Even though it may be unrealistic to expect a module-creation kit, there is still merit to this idea. Sure we may not be able to actually develop a module, but why can't Turbine have a player-module contest where people submit ideas, maps, etc. Surely development can take the best idea from the forums and translate *that* into a quest?

vainangel
10-06-2009, 04:02 PM
I am sure someone said putting user content on its own server would be best... Yes it is.

I would love the ability to make my own series of quests for my friends to run through. I could build most any D&D setting with the textures/frames we have now. Script the chain and the areas the way you want.

I would love to do this with this game engine. There could even be a contest for best designed quest and/or chain and have it be included on the live servers! Or something...

poonce
10-06-2009, 04:05 PM
If they ever did make the tools i think they need to let us play single player also i.e not online. Have all the quests that can be completed solo, and raids that can be completed solo, i.e not needing someone to pull a switch with you on the other side of the quest. That way we can make and play all of our own quests and dl others that people made.

Would be cool if most MMO's had a single player mode imo.

Thrudh
10-06-2009, 04:20 PM
Even though it may be unrealistic to expect a module-creation kit, there is still merit to this idea. Sure we may not be able to actually develop a module, but why can't Turbine have a player-module contest where people submit ideas, maps, etc. Surely development can take the best idea from the forums and translate *that* into a quest?


Good idea.

melkor1702
10-07-2009, 01:18 AM
If they ever did make the tools i think they need to let us play single player also i.e not online. Have all the quests that can be completed solo, and raids that can be completed solo, i.e not needing someone to pull a switch with you on the other side of the quest. That way we can make and play all of our own quests and dl others that people made.

Would be cool if most MMO's had a single player mode imo.

Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of being a MMO?

If it isn't Multiplayer or Online wouldn't it make it your standard single player RPG with downloadable expansions. If you want that I'm sure there are other games out there that can do that. I remember one from the 90's called Unlimited Adventures (or something like that), where there was a couple of pre-built quests and an engine where you could create all the quests you wanted and then send to your friends. Maybe that's more your style?

DoctorWhofan
10-07-2009, 01:29 AM
Yes, I beta tested SWG and played for 2.5 years...and the reason most of us got angry and left after the NGE was because we had spent countless hours grinding all 32 professions and unlocking our jedi when it was announced that now every 12 yo kid out there was going to be able to just walk into the game and get a jedi that we had worked so hard for...bah!!!!! And now everyone and their brother is coming to DDO expecting to get everything they want because they are now playing the game we all love so much and have been paying for for the last 3.5 years, but are unwilling to put any time or effort into it, well phooey on anyone that thinks they are entitled to just come in and be UBER on day 1.

There was an old joke that goes something like this:
A young man, new to New York, walks up to an older man and asks him, "Excuse me sir, how do I get to Carnegie Hall?"
The older man looks at the young one and says "Practice, practice, practice."

If you want to have good gear, and be uber, then eat your tasty ham and practice.

Saal :)

And as to player made content....I could care less either way.

+1 rep

And needs to be repeated alot.

Uska
10-07-2009, 01:45 AM
Yes, I beta tested SWG and played for 2.5 years...and the reason most of us got angry and left after the NGE was because we had spent countless hours grinding all 32 professions and unlocking our jedi when it was announced that now every 12 yo kid out there was going to be able to just walk into the game and get a jedi that we had worked so hard for...bah!!!!! And now everyone and their brother is coming to DDO expecting to get everything they want because they are now playing the game we all love so much and have been paying for for the last 3.5 years, but are unwilling to put any time or effort into it, well phooey on anyone that thinks they are entitled to just come in and be UBER on day 1.

There was an old joke that goes something like this:
A young man, new to New York, walks up to an older man and asks him, "Excuse me sir, how do I get to Carnegie Hall?"
The older man looks at the young one and says "Practice, practice, practice."

If you want to have good gear, and be uber, then eat your tasty ham and practice.

Saal :)

And as to player made content....I could care less either way.


If I could would give you +1 but give to much recently but your so right and NGE killed SWG for me as well didnt like the CU but at least it was still somewhat the SWG we know and loved.

darthuvius
10-10-2009, 01:12 PM
the devs have stated they have a player generated content system in the prototype stage. This game has had content problems since day one, so I don't understand why player generated content wasn't high priority but oh well, one day we will have a game with a player generated world, this worlds infrastructure will most likely be created by blizzard entertainment.

There are innumerable ways to deal with the exploit and crappy content problems, all of them simpler than getting the system to actually work however.

Now that DDO is F2P, player generated content can become really interesting. How will I as a F2P player get access to your content? Surely not for free! That would consume a lot of resources with no payback for Turbine. The solution is for players to sell their content to other players and for Turbine to get a cut of the profits.

Turbine could then focus all of their efforts on improving the tools needed for its users to create content, since they cant create content in a timely manner anyway.

I am excited about the future of gaming! I hope you are too!

Graypaws
10-10-2009, 01:22 PM
The OP used SWG and COH as examples of games that have player created content. Not good examples really. Both games really bought the farm. Vampire the Masquerade: Redemption had that tool as well, as did NWN, and as stand alone games, they did well. Online, with player made content, they were abused and clunky. Its a really slippery slope, no game has done it right yet and with rampant lawsuit happy people playing these games, its a PR/financial nightmare.

Graypaws
10-10-2009, 01:27 PM
Now that DDO is F2P, player generated content can become really interesting. How will I as a F2P player get access to your content? Surely not for free! That would consume a lot of resources with no payback for Turbine. The solution is for players to sell their content to other players and for Turbine to get a cut of the profits.


And this is the reason why it would become a nightmare. No MMO company Ive seen likes anyone but them making money on their product. Im not saying it would all be bad, Ive seen some amazing Splinter Cell levels made and I remember making Doom and Doom 2 levels and skin patches. Just have not seen anything online ever come remotely close to finding a happy medium.

MagicianBlade
10-11-2009, 09:55 AM
And this is the reason why it would become a nightmare. No MMO company Ive seen likes anyone but them making money on their product. Im not saying it would all be bad, Ive seen some amazing Splinter Cell levels made and I remember making Doom and Doom 2 levels and skin patches. Just have not seen anything online ever come remotely close to finding a happy medium.

Well, take a look at Second Life.

Also, there have been several hundreds of successful text-based MMOs with user generated content.

So, there's examples of both MMOs where players can make money, and mmos with successful user generated content. Granted, neither are remotely DDO like. One isn't even a game, really, and I don't think there have been any successful pay-to-play MUDs that also had user generated content.. (I could be wrong there though) but pay-to-play is far more acceptable now than it was back in the day when MUDs were much more common.

Like I said before, someone is actually building a MMO engine that is designed to have user created content added into it easily. The reason why no one else has done this that didn't suck ass, is simply because no one has built their game design with the idea of user created content. And you're not going to be able to use an existing game engine for that sort of thing, without doing some major hacking on it right from the get go. Even to just get things to bolt into the existing DDO, they'd probably need to come up with some system that will allow it to use seperate data files, release the editing tools, perhaps create some way of testing it without logging into a server (I imagine there are probably development servers that the devs use to test new content on, rather than having a single player mode, but they have localized access to those, a player creating a map would not want to upload map to a server, test it, tweak it, reupload it, test it, tweak it, etc), put together some kind of approval system, guidelines for things you must do, and for things you can't do, and then once they do actually approve a single map, then they have to bolt it into the existing game somewhere, then release an update.

GlassCannon
10-11-2009, 09:58 AM
Well, even Star Wars Galaxies gives players the ability to create their own quests now. City of Heroes/Villains has had it for a little while now. I suggested this to you years ago. Are you going to wait until every other online game does it before you give it to us?


Soon™

Graypaws
10-11-2009, 10:10 AM
Well, take a look at Second Life.

Also, there have been several hundreds of successful text-based MMOs with user generated content.

So, there's examples of both MMOs where players can make money, and mmos with successful user generated content. Granted, neither are remotely DDO like. One isn't even a game, really, and I don't think there have been any successful pay-to-play MUDs that also had user generated content.. (I could be wrong there though) but pay-to-play is far more acceptable now than it was back in the day when MUDs were much more common.

Like I said before, someone is actually building a MMO engine that is designed to have user created content added into it easily. The reason why no one else has done this that didn't suck ass, is simply because no one has built their game design with the idea of user created content. And you're not going to be able to use an existing game engine for that sort of thing, without doing some major hacking on it right from the get go. Even to just get things to bolt into the existing DDO, they'd probably need to come up with some system that will allow it to use seperate data files, release the editing tools, perhaps create some way of testing it without logging into a server (I imagine there are probably development servers that the devs use to test new content on, rather than having a single player mode, but they have localized access to those, a player creating a map would not want to upload map to a server, test it, tweak it, reupload it, test it, tweak it, etc), put together some kind of approval system, guidelines for things you must do, and for things you can't do, and then once they do actually approve a single map, then they have to bolt it into the existing game somewhere, then release an update.

2nd life is more like a graphics based chat room then an MMO. And text based, the only one that even comes close to successful is DragonRealms, and to make content there you have to go platinum which costs I believe inbetween 50 and 60 bucks a month. On top of all that, even when you go platinum, you have to spend months before you are allowed to desgin anything. If player made content comes to DDO, fine, Im not a developer and dont have to deal with that can of worms, but dont expect players to make any RL money off it.

Krago
10-12-2009, 12:08 PM
Limit the Player made content. No quests but re-skins. Put them up for vote like all the other player made art before. Then at least the ones the players want the most are added. (Wasnt this the reason so few new things were added for a long time, was the cost incurred for new art development?)

Maybe even allow the players to play with the bone structuring and animations too.

EDIT: I should have stated that I am referring to new mobs being added. Not re-skinning old quests. (Devs have the market cornered on that one ;) )