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Asmuth
10-04-2009, 11:22 PM
OK, I am extensively famaliar with how D+D 3.5 works, and fairly baffled by how some of the stuff on this game works. The "paths" utterly confuse me, I equated them to prestiege classes which was completely wrong, because the requirements weren't listed, I went down a path, and forever doomed that character due the choices that were made for me. I am going to have to make another character now and don't want that unpleasent experience. The wiki is pretty much useless on explaining any of this stuff, and I haven't found anything else that is clearer. The issue is all the choices involve action point expenditures, and it doesn't really cover this as far as I can tell. Here are the questions I need answered:

Question 1: Do you have to be a ranger to take the arcane archer advancements?

Question 2: Do you have to have some arcane class (wiz/sor) to take the arcane archer advancements?

I ask, because if possible I would like to play an arcane arcer using a fighter as the base class, so I get the extra feats and weapon sepcialization, I don't mind taking a level or two as a wiz/sor if needed, and if they are not needed I could take ranger levels instead if needed, otherwise I'd just go pure fighter. I know in D+D this is entirely possible, but I'm not sure on here.

The arcane archer on the wiki appears to be entirely a ranger, if so could someone explain what they take to qualify for the arcane archer advancement, because it doesn't look like rangers can take any of the pre-req's, though I easily could of missed something.

lostkoss
10-04-2009, 11:28 PM
Get the character planner.It will help you plan out your choices.

It also make the differences in 3.5 and DDO pretty clear.

Character Planner- http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO/DDOCharGen.html

Question1 = yes, unless elf spellcaster

Question2 = no, unless elf spellcaster

Angelus_dead
10-04-2009, 11:30 PM
I went down a path, and forever doomed that character due the choices that were made for me.
Be warned that the course you are taking now (training Arcane Archer), is fairly similar to dooming the character.


The wiki is pretty much useless on explaining any of this stuff, and I haven't found anything else that is clearer. The issue is all the choices involve action point expenditures, and it doesn't really cover this as far as I can tell. Here are the questions I need answered:
Question 1: Do you have to be a ranger to take the arcane archer advancements?
Question 2: Do you have to have some arcane class (wiz/sor) to take the arcane archer advancements?
The wiki has the info, but isn't set up to be easy to get around. To become AA you must be either a ranger or an elf spellcaster.


The arcane archer on the wiki appears to be entirely a ranger, if so could someone explain what they take to qualify for the arcane archer advancement, because it doesn't look like rangers can take any of the pre-req's, though I easily could of missed something.
To become AA a ranger will need Mental Toughness, Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus Range, and a few AP at level 6.

That is listed in wikis, and also in-game if you click Show Unavailable on your enhancement page and mouseover AA.

tihocan
10-05-2009, 08:04 AM
The "paths" utterly confuse me, I equated them to prestiege classes which was completely wrong, because the requirements weren't listed,
Paths are just pre-made builds so that players unfamiliar with DDO/D&D don't build a totally worthless character.

It you make a build yourself it's a good idea to post it on forums for feedback, because even D&D knowledge is not always enough to build a good DDO character.

Asmuth
10-05-2009, 12:40 PM
Be warned that the course you are taking now (training Arcane Archer), is fairly similar to dooming the character.

Could you explain this? Dooming my character by going for Arcane Archer is pretty vague, so could you explain why this would be dooming my character?

Angelus_dead
10-05-2009, 12:44 PM
Could you explain this? Dooming my character by going for Arcane Archer is pretty vague, so could you explain why this would be dooming my character?
Ok:
1. Arcane Archer gives bonuses to ranged attacks.
2. Ranged attacking is painfully weak.
3. Therefore, your character has invested a lot of resources for minimal benefit, making him weaker than otherwise.

As I said, he's not really "doomed", because he can still survive in a weakened state. But since you had already used the word "doomed" regarding a character who in all probability was salvageable, the result may seem similar to you.

Asmuth
10-05-2009, 12:45 PM
Yes, the part I found very confusing is that all the benefits that were advertised for being an arcane archer were actually from action point purchases, which is something the arcane archer path doesn't do for you. Looking at requirements for action point purchases it doesn't clarify between which requirements are other action point purchases and which are feats (ex: every requirement for arcane archer was an action point purchase that required a non-ranger class, except mental toughness which was a feat, however there was no way for me to tell this and it was assumed this was also an action point purchase for a non-ranger class, since I couldn't see the non-ranger action point purchases in my list which is what led to my questions in the first place) I've also since learned there's no benifit to having magical arrows if you already have a bow, which makes the whole AA line seem useless once you have a +5 bow.


Paths are just pre-made builds so that players unfamiliar with DDO/D&D don't build a totally worthless character.

It you make a build yourself it's a good idea to post it on forums for feedback, because even D&D knowledge is not always enough to build a good DDO character.

Mercules
10-05-2009, 12:56 PM
I've also since learned there's no benifit to having magical arrows if you already have a bow, which makes the whole AA line seem useless once you have a +5 bow.

Ah, but when you have a +1 Paralyzing bow suddenly the +3 arcane arrows start to look better since you now have effectively a +3 Paralyzing Bow.

The character planner will help out a lot and bring some understanding for someone who hasn't experienced the Enhancement part of DDO before or the way they implement certain things.

What Angelus_dead is saying is that he and a lot of other people consider Range Combat worthless. While it is weaker than Melee it still has uses. In addition a Ranger that uses Arcane Archer to boost his ranged ability and knows when to switch to Close Combat will be fairly effective. For some, however, it is straight DPS or nothing, ignoring the fact that the mob that never reaches you is much less likely to eat up party resources than the mob you rush up to and kill. This is especially true of chasing around casting mobs. ;)

ReaperAlexEU
10-05-2009, 01:11 PM
as i sit now i have 2 attempts at making an archer from a fighter on my char list, both are bank characters :(

ranged combat is very situational and as a main combat style quite underpowered (the devs were scared of the entire server going ranged if it was on a par!).

if you enjoy ranged combat then roll a pure ranger, you get all the normal prowess of being good with two blades, and you get all the ranged feats thrown in! unlike in DnD rangers dont have to choose between blade and bow, they just get both lines. also don't focus on just dex, you need lots of str to hurt things with a bow or a blade. str bonus to bow damage is not limited to a +4 pull comp bow, with the bow strength feat rangers get there is no limit to the str bonus you can get to damage! rangers get bonus to dex from their enhancements, as do elves. that can add up to quite a bit and so you can pump str on levelups instead. also being able to use the rangers spell is a real boon.

oh yeah, ammo vs bow, that was a change between DnD 3.0 and 3.5 when they stopped the ammo stacking with the bow. however if you have an ice bow and flaming arrows then you do both damage types. for that reason the arcane archer still has some stuff to offer with its ghost touch force arrows!

if you still want to go fighter then you'll need to be a lvl9 elf with a splash of spell caster and some spell related enhancements OR mental toughness feat. you should also then look into getting the fighter kensai line. the drawback is you wont have the same ease of getting a good melee combat line as the ranger does. you'll also loose the nice spells a ranger can get (resistance is a standard buff, access to cure wands saves lots of money on healing, rams strength is a nice +2 str, and the later level spells like freedom of movement are a real bonus. oh and barkskin is a standard AC buff).

is there some other character you fancy playing first? maybe re-visit the archer when you have 32 point builds and can pump the stats up further?

Aurochys
10-05-2009, 01:30 PM
As A_D said the Ranger that meets the requirements can pick up Arcane Archer at Lvl 6 and can be of any race.

However, if you choose to go Elf and Ftr/Wiz (or some other arcane spell caster) to meet the requirements then the earliest you could pick it up would be lvl 9.

So straight Ranger (any race) from 1 - 6 could become Arcane Archer by going:
Lvl 1 Feat Point Blank Shot
Lvl 3 Feat WF:Ranged
Lvl 6 Feat Mental Toughness
Then take appropriate enhancements via action points.

A Fighter/Wiz would get the necessary feats much more quickly
Lvl 1 Fighter Point Blank Shot & WF:Ranged
Lvl 2 Wizard Metamagic Bonus Feat (note now you wouldn't need Mental Toughness because you can use an action point to take Wizard Energy of the Scholar enhancement)
But now you would have to wait until you have spent 28 Action Points before you could pick up Arcane Archer.

In DDO:EU, the Arcane Archer can also Imbue arrows to effectively give them Ghost Touch and +1d6 Force Damage. So you could have a +1 Flaming Bow and use your AA arrows to do arrow + fire + force damage on each hit.

Finally, as also has been pointed out, its not a great idea to spec yourself totally to ranged. Things have a way of getting up on you quickly and you need to be able to melee effectively. So if you go Ranger and take advantage of the fact that you do not need to meet the Dex requirements for most Ranged feats (because you get them free), you can build a toon that can Melee well and Range well.

Mercules
10-05-2009, 02:22 PM
So you could have a +1 Flaming Bow and use your AA arrows to do arrow + fire + force damage on each hit.

Even better you could use a Holy of Pure Good bow with arrows from a Flame Arrow wand/scroll and Imbue your ranged attacks with Force Arrow to end up with,

Holy 2d6 (vrs Evil)
PG 1d6
Fire 1d6
Force 1d6

So 1d8+Str+1(bow modifier)+5d6 against evil creatures. In addition you can shoot multiple arrows with Many Shot and with Improved Precise shot(level 11 Ranger) you can shoot through multiple mobs. If you line mobs up, say down a long hallway or in a door trying to beat on the main tank blocking it, you can do a lot of damage.

Aurochys
10-05-2009, 02:39 PM
Even better you could use a Holy of Pure Good bow with arrows from a Flame Arrow wand/scroll and Imbue your ranged attacks with Force Arrow

Cool! I thought you could Imbue the Flame Arrow ammo, but I wasn't sure.

Asmuth
10-05-2009, 03:02 PM
OK, getting a little off topic, but still related. In D+D using ranged attacks while in melee gives the monsters attacks of opportunity, in DDO is there any penalty to using ranged weapons in melee combat?

Also in DDo is there any differance between a longbow and a composite longbow?

Brennie
10-05-2009, 06:17 PM
OK, getting a little off topic, but still related. In D+D using ranged attacks while in melee gives the monsters attacks of opportunity, in DDO is there any penalty to using ranged weapons in melee combat?

Also in DDo is there any differance between a longbow and a composite longbow?

I believe you have a =4 Armor Class while using a range weapon in melee.

There is no difference between longbow and composite longbow, besides looks.

I'd also like to point to the Silver Bow, availible from the Curst and the Cult quest (AKA Vampire quest) which is +2 Holy Silver longbow with 19-20/x3 crit range that stacks with Ranged Critial feat. Add in +5 arrows, and you have yourself a heck of a bow!

Aurochys
10-05-2009, 06:33 PM
I agree, there is a penalty to your AC if you are being attacked in melee range while wielding a ranged weapon (and -4 sounds about right).

And no difference between longbows and composite longbows in DDO.

Visty
10-05-2009, 06:38 PM
there is NO ac penalty when beeing hit in melee wielding a bow

thats just a myth

Aurochys
10-05-2009, 07:16 PM
Hmmm, I guess that's possible. Perhaps I was getting it confused with the -4 to hit when shooting while moving (without Shot on the Run).

I did some searches and found a reference to it in a SigTrent Crunchy Bit Podcast from back in the day, but nothing from a dev. But then, I didnt look to hard.