PDA

View Full Version : Do you know why this game isnt a huge success?



Dartwick
09-29-2009, 10:29 PM
The instances are awesome. The best in online gaming.

But its such a bloody headache getting getting all the right people spoken too in the right order and finding the right guy in town that people get discouraged and quit.

Sure some people endure it and will talk about how easy it is, but you notice how many people try the game then quit? Thats the problem.

In Pen and Paper you dont have to spend 15 minutes running around the room before you start making sure you touch all the chairs in the right order. But that essentially what you have to do in this game.

It should be much easier and faster for a group of friends or a pick up group to get into a quest instance.

Garth_of_Sarlona
09-29-2009, 10:38 PM
Once anyone in the group (e.g. the leader) has the quest, they can share the quest via the quest journal. Perhaps that will resolve your issue?

Garth

captain1z
09-29-2009, 10:44 PM
I dont think thats it at all. Most games I know require you to do stuff in a certain order and dont always tell you what that order is.

Games you would also hate = Myst and any other game like Myst

I think the issue was and still is that people can cap extremely fast and if you not into making alts, the end is just that much closer for you. Feeling limited, whether its a level 4 cap or level 20 cap is why some people drift off.

ArekDorun
09-29-2009, 10:55 PM
Once anyone in the group (e.g. the leader) has the quest, they can share the quest via the quest journal. Perhaps that will resolve your issue?

Garth

This only works on single quests. For all the quest chains I've been on, you have to go back and talk to the original questgiver between Chapters (each chapter can contain multiple quests), and you can't share later quests in the chain with folks who haven't finished and turned in earlier ones, iirc. This may not be much trouble most of the time (the questgiver isn't all that far out of the way, or hard to find), but I've been on 2 chains where it's been a bit of a headache (WW after finding Vahn's corpse - you have to trek all the way across WW and talk to the guy at the entrance to Part 1 before you leave, and the Sharn Syndicate line of quests - you have to go back to the guy that starts the quest chain between quests, and he can be a bit out of the way).

Also, it doesn't work when you're not in a group and don't know where the quest you want to go on starts (or the area you want to explore is) - I've had to search (on the web) for the entrances to both Tangleroot and Sorrowdusk, for instance, to even know where to begin looking for them - There's no indication where they're located in the Adv. Pack descriptions, and I haven't been able to find a way to search for quests by what adventure pack they're in in-game. To me, this last part is very frustrating.

--Arek

Missing_Minds
09-29-2009, 10:57 PM
Sounds like you have issues with something most gamers call a "learning curve". Once you start remembering how the game works, problem solved.

Arnya
09-29-2009, 11:15 PM
The mechanism to advance chain quests can indeed confuse some people; but is a good filter for dumb and/or lazy players.

It is very, very confusing to read the text in the NPC interactions. Also very challenging is opening the quest journal and reading the information in the quest description.

The last mod has seen a lot of the nice elements of this MMO removed or dumbed down for the lowest common denominator.

This is not smart, it is catering to people who will not get to endgame anyway because they can't work out the basics...

These are the same people who get confused by the cardinal points of the map, or having to read more than one line of DM text, let alone party chat.

Frankly, we can do without these types of players.

BTW: It is really annoying being asked to share Durk's got a Secret' - considering they moved the NPC to approximately 2 metres from the quest entrance (6 feet for you wierdos ;)).

BlackSteel
09-30-2009, 12:35 AM
i dont see how the quest implementation with npcs is any different than say WoW or alot of other MMO's. quest givers have exclamations over their heads.

Dartwick
09-30-2009, 05:23 AM
The mechanism to advance chain quests can indeed confuse some people; but is a good filter for dumb and/or lazy players.


This is the perfect example of why feed back from existing players is totally useless in a failing game.

You have a player trumpeting the importance barriers ability turn away new players - barriers that have nothing at all to do with core game play.

In fact Arnyas post when analyzed is a good argument for my position.

Absolute-Omniscience
09-30-2009, 05:26 AM
I think the issue was and still is that people can cap extremely fast and if you not into making alts, the end is just that much closer for you. Feeling limited, whether its a level 4 cap or level 20 cap is why some people drift off.

The cap isn't what pushing people away. I've played all mmos from world of warcraft to guild wars, and as it is now, DDO is probably the one it takes the longest to cap in.

Hendrik
09-30-2009, 08:07 AM
This only works on single quests. For all the quest chains I've been on, you have to go back and talk to the original questgiver between Chapters (each chapter can contain multiple quests), and you can't share later quests in the chain with folks who haven't finished and turned in earlier ones, iirc. This may not be much trouble most of the time (the questgiver isn't all that far out of the way, or hard to find), but I've been on 2 chains where it's been a bit of a headache (WW after finding Vahn's corpse - you have to trek all the way across WW and talk to the guy at the entrance to Part 1 before you leave, and the Sharn Syndicate line of quests - you have to go back to the guy that starts the quest chain between quests, and he can be a bit out of the way).

Also, it doesn't work when you're not in a group and don't know where the quest you want to go on starts (or the area you want to explore is) - I've had to search (on the web) for the entrances to both Tangleroot and Sorrowdusk, for instance, to even know where to begin looking for them - There's no indication where they're located in the Adv. Pack descriptions, and I haven't been able to find a way to search for quests by what adventure pack they're in in-game. To me, this last part is very frustrating.

--Arek


Use the provided in-game tools to EASILY find the entrances, how easy is it to follow a big gold arrow?

Hendrik
09-30-2009, 08:08 AM
This is the perfect example of why feed back from existing players is totally useless in a failing game.

You have a player trumpeting the importance barriers ability turn away new players - barriers that have nothing at all to do with core game play.

In fact Arnyas post when analyzed is a good argument for my position.

Your 'argument' was invalidated with your first sentence.

ghettoGenius
09-30-2009, 08:19 AM
I think some people really miss the point of this game. Adventure, exploration, discovery, surmounting challenges as a group (or individual), these are the goals DDO aims to achieve. I think the devs did a good job of creating that atmosphere while at the same time not making it feel so linear. This isnt Gauntlet where there is basically one direction you can move in. The complexities add to the challenge and thus the rewards. You would have really been twisted if you were among the first to try out crafting lol.

Sure you do some running but not nearly as much as some MMOs and with the map, quest tabs you're getting alot of information to help you find dungeon entrances and npcs ... much more than some DMs would give you. A little patience goes a long way here.

Aspenor
09-30-2009, 08:21 AM
I am pretty sure this isn't why the game isn't a "huge" success. More players leave over other things than NPC's.

What it really comes down to is stigma and name recognition. In this computerized world, Warcraft was a known game for ages and much more popular than DnD. Lord of the Rings is a massively famous name.

DnD carries a stigma of soda-swigging nerds and is not quite as popular as the aforementioned titles.

ArekDorun
09-30-2009, 08:29 AM
Use the provided in-game tools to EASILY find the entrances, how easy is it to follow a big gold arrow?

Very easy....once you're in the area with the actual quest, have the quest assigned to you, and (in explorer areas) have already been to the target location at least once.

I have yet to find a way (maybe I've overlooked it, I AM new) to have the game lead you to either the entrance to an explorer area or the initial giver of a particular quest, or to give any direction at all when you're not already on the same map as the quest you want to do (I can understand the game not pointing you the way to something in an explorer area that you don't already know where is).

These are minor points, as I can use out-of-game tools to find the info I want, or simply ask in-game for a "who and where" on a particular quest/area, and go from there. It's just inconvenient.

--Arek

cdbd3rd
09-30-2009, 08:30 AM
Use the provided in-game tools to EASILY find the entrances, how easy is it to follow a big gold arrow?



Equally as impossible as reading text and/or opening a map and mousing over icons...

Or moving around in a game...

Too many new folks seem to want to just stand in a spot, push a button, and have a door moved to them (al a Monsters, Inc.) to enter.
:rolleyes:

WolfSpirit
09-30-2009, 08:31 AM
DnD carries a stigma of soda-swigging nerds and is not quite as popular as the aforementioned titles.
-
Hey!
I drink Beer.
AND I've been Wildly successful with girls my whole life!
I'm the Anti-Nerd in a Nerds World.
-
(sniff sniff) I love you guys!
<gulp gulp Burrrrrp>

Healemup
09-30-2009, 08:37 AM
BTW: It is really annoying being asked to share Durk's got a Secret' - considering they moved the NPC to approximately 2 metres from the quest entrance (6 feet for you wierdos ;)).


Wow, what size monitor do you use?? ;) I can only get it to be about a foot at most (that's 1/3 meter for you that can't judge distances). j/k :D

BurnerD
09-30-2009, 08:51 AM
The dev team has made on ongoing effort to make the game easier for newer players. Are they done yet? probably not.

I know I started playing this game before alot of the changes were made and I was able to figure it out without too much trouble. I'm not a Harvard graduate (but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night) so I think I am probably a reasonable representation of the average gamer.

I did have a problem finding a quest giver once... and all I did was ask in the next couple of groups I joined and got the answer.

Part of the fun of a game for me is figuring things out. I do agree that a couple of the quest chains could be confusing to new players, but if you ask nicely someone will help you.

The thing you have working against you as a new player is that there is a fair number of new players who are obviously making NO effort to figure things out for themselves. They spam the general chat channel with questions they could easily find the solution to if they made even the slightest effort. Unfortunately this makes it harder for the new players who have good questions to get them answered.

Likewise you get an answer you don't like in your forum post and you immediately stereotype the rest of us and our advice. If you are naive enough to think that every post you make in these forums (or forums of any other game) will be met with only polite agreement then online gaming may not be for you.

Good luck in figuring things out. Ask around and there are many veterans who will help.

adamkatt
09-30-2009, 08:54 AM
The instances are awesome. The best in online gaming.

But its such a bloody headache getting getting all the right people spoken too in the right order and finding the right guy in town that people get discouraged and quit.

Sure some people endure it and will talk about how easy it is, but you notice how many people try the game then quit? Thats the problem.

In Pen and Paper you dont have to spend 15 minutes running around the room before you start making sure you touch all the chairs in the right order. But that essentially what you have to do in this game.

It should be much easier and faster for a group of friends or a pick up group to get into a quest instance.

Yeah, i never liked puzzles either..

Vivanto
09-30-2009, 08:59 AM
The only thing that's "driving people away like mad" is that it isn't spoonfeeding the newbs. But compared to what it used to be it's still a LOT more dumbed down and still all the new guys are whining about it. Guess what, we still managed to find our ways around and the game prevailed.

enochiancub
09-30-2009, 09:10 AM
Haven't they dumbed the game down enough already? There has to be a point where enough is enough.

Warhulk
09-30-2009, 09:23 AM
You can always hit your P key, put your mouse over the quest name, and the name and location of the quest giver is right there.

Milolyen
09-30-2009, 09:23 AM
In my opinion, A big part of DDO is the story lines and WHY we are doing the quests. If you would take the time to read what is going on everything in the game is rather intuitive and you would understand why you need to go back and talk to various quest givers. For instance with the sharn syndicate line if you actually read and paid attention to why you where going on the quests in the first place it is only a natural progression that you would need to go back and talk to the initial quest giver as the other things did not happen till during/after the previous quest. Like when you walk the person into the bank to check on his piece of art (stormreaver fresco or something like that) he was actually stealing it from a dragon. Then after you go into another quest and come back out and talk to him he tells you he recieved word that the dragon that it was stolen from is threatening to torch stormreach unless it is returned. How would you know of its threats unless you talked to the head person?

One of my biggiest pet peeves in this game is when people don't take the 10 to 20 seconds to actually read the text the first time they pick up the quest.

Milolyen

Beherit_Baphomar
09-30-2009, 09:33 AM
I am pretty sure this isn't why the game isn't a "huge" success. More players leave over other things than NPC's.

What it really comes down to is stigma and name recognition. In this computerized world, Warcraft was a known game for ages and much more popular than DnD. Lord of the Rings is a massively famous name.

DnD carries a stigma of soda-swigging nerds and is not quite as popular as the aforementioned titles.


I think we have a winner right here. What Asp said coupled with premature launch which even drove the D&D nerds, I mean gamers away.

I equate it to the Abbot raid. Doesn't matter how good you make it now it still won't be seen as good.

As for quest givers/entrances I don't think it can really be dumbed down any further, can it? Right now it takes a tiny amount of brain power to read what's on your screen and follow very basic instructions. Maybe if you don't speak English or can't read I can see it being a problem but short of porting your character over stormreach there really isn't any more the Dev team can do.

Cedwin
09-30-2009, 09:42 AM
Huh, and in another thread people are asking for a larger world where you have to run even further to pick up quests...

It's strange, everytime I see an idea for this game, I see another thread with an exact opposite idea with an equal amount of supporters.

Hokiewa
09-30-2009, 09:58 AM
I think we have a winner right here. What Asp said coupled with premature launch which even drove the D&D nerds, I mean gamers away.

I equate it to the Abbot raid. Doesn't matter how good you make it now it still won't be seen as good.

As for quest givers/entrances I don't think it can really be dumbed down any further, can it? Right now it takes a tiny amount of brain power to read what's on your screen and follow very basic instructions. Maybe if you don't speak English or can't read I can see it being a problem but short of porting your character over stormreach there really isn't any more the Dev team can do.

I'm waiting for somebody to suggest that the quest giver pop up in quest at the end, as hunting him down for an end reward is tooo exhausting.......lol

ogboot
09-30-2009, 10:01 AM
Huh, and in another thread people are asking for a larger world where you have to run even further to pick up quests...

It's strange, everytime I see an idea for this game, I see another thread with an exact opposite idea with an equal amount of supporters.

Agreed, if the newbs would leave harbor and look around they would see that there are PLENTY of quests all over the city, as well as many many outlying areas that can be reached from the edges of town and the houses.
I'm thankful that i don't have to get a mount and ride for 30min to do a quest like in final fantasy or WoW. The game still provides a rich environment without the tediousness of extreme travel.

The quests in this game aren't any harder to turn in or advance than any other MMO. Some MMOs won't even allow you to share quests as easily as DDO.

Zenako
09-30-2009, 10:07 AM
In Pen and Paper you dont have to spend 15 minutes running around the room before you start making sure you touch all the chairs in the right order. But that essentially what you have to do in this game.

It should be much easier and faster for a group of friends or a pick up group to get into a quest instance.

Ok, not sure what your P&P experience has been, but lets make the comparison somewhat simialar then.

DDO - the game (ie DM) has 200 or so quests prepared to be run when the players want to do them, BUT, the game has to know which ones you want to run and be given a chance (via the text boxes from the quest givers) to let you know the objective. This can take a few minutes (but very unlikely to be 15 in my opinion).

D&D - the DM has a shelf full of modules/quests he could run, but he has no idea which ones the players will be running that day. Players arrive and decide - Tomb of Horrors is what we are running. Dm then has to find the module, get any notes he wants ready, perhaps even round up some miniatures to support the gaming session. Then he has to find the info in the module about the "quest giver" or why in the bleep the characters are heading off to the "Tomb of Horrors". Gonna be a bunch of time.

So I find your allusion to P&P gaming to be somewhat flawed in this context.


The flavor text, the quest info, from all quest givers tells a story. In most cases that also provides information and insight into what obstacles you will be facing and need to overcome BEFORE you enter the quest, giving players a chance to change spells, or pick up stuff that might be needed.

Ciaran
09-30-2009, 10:13 AM
The instances are awesome. The best in online gaming.

But its such a bloody headache getting getting all the right people spoken too in the right order and finding the right guy in town that people get discouraged and quit.

Sure some people endure it and will talk about how easy it is, but you notice how many people try the game then quit? Thats the problem.

In Pen and Paper you dont have to spend 15 minutes running around the room before you start making sure you touch all the chairs in the right order. But that essentially what you have to do in this game.

It should be much easier and faster for a group of friends or a pick up group to get into a quest instance.

I don't think it could be any easier than it already is. This game isn't any different than any other MMO when it comes to getting a quest from an NPC and the running back and talking to that NPC to complete/advance the quest. About the only chains that still trips people up that I can think of is Delera's and possibly Greymoon/CO6. Even then it isn't that hard to figure out.

In fact I'd say in most cases this game is EASIER when it comes to NPC's and quests than other MMO's, at least the one's I've played. For example, in AoC it isn't uncommon to get a quest, say from King Conan himself in Old Tarantia and have to do a lot of running and zone hopping to actually get to the place where you have to run the quest. You also have quests where you have to travel to several places that aren't close to each other and find certain NPC's to talk to.

I really don't think finding NPCs is what frustrates and drives most of the people that leave away.

KoboldKiller
09-30-2009, 10:22 AM
Oh they could dumb it down by removing quest givers all together. You could just click on an entrance and it gives you the quest, then upon exiting it pops up a end reward list. Wow that would be fun wouldn't it?


:rolleyes:

Timothea
09-30-2009, 10:33 AM
Here's what I'm seeing:

"which quest are we doing?"

"Stormcleave, as advertised"

"where's the questgiver?"

"House Deneith, inside Anvilfire Inn"

"i don't know where that is"

"From the Marketplace, find House D, once inside Anvilfire is a tavern icon on your map"

3 minutes pass...

"can you share?"

"Where are you now?

"in house d"

"Come on into the Anvilfire Inn, look for the tavern icon on your map"

2 more minutes pass...

"can someone share?"


Seriously, learn to use the map. You'll need it for the entire game. Run around and explore. Talk to the NPCs and get a feel for the world. Find the different shops and what they sell. Learn about the game world, you might have a better time in it.

GlassCannon
09-30-2009, 10:40 AM
<snip>
It should be much easier and faster for a group of friends or a pick up group to get into a quest instance.


First of all, the majority of time spent waiting for a quest is generally waiting for the LFM to fill with the necessary requisites for that quest.

Second, I hate having to run past things trying to kill me to get somewhere to start the quest.

Third, read the storyline. You'll find DDO has an abundance of rich and winding Story Arcs that make the game fun. Try running a quest with General Chat on and actually paying attention to what the NPCs say.

GlassCannon
09-30-2009, 10:44 AM
Huh, and in another thread people are asking for a larger world where you have to run even further to pick up quests... I would utterly loathe this. Some quests are already too far out into an explorer area. Yes, I like blitzing and not wasting a single moment. I'd rather not get a new joinee for a quest when we are at the instance, that cannot for the life of them use the map, quest journal, or google, deep into a new explorer area that takes 5 minutes to run from one end of it to the other. It's incredible how inept a lot of people are.

It's strange, everytime I see an idea for this game, I see another thread with an exact opposite idea with an equal amount of supporters. Strange, isn't it? They seem to be habitually disagreeable.

My replies in red.

I am constantly beleaguered and harried by those that make a habit of being incapable of helping themselves, and burden you to babysit them all the way to the quest entrance, then all the way to the end of the quest, holding their hand as you go. There are so many that I became accustomed to helping them learn how to help themselves.

ogboot
09-30-2009, 10:47 AM
Seriously, learn to use the map. You'll need it for the entire game. Run around and explore. Talk to the NPCs and get a feel for the world. Find the different shops and what they sell. Learn about the game world, you might have a better time in it.

This. People should want to explore, and have a storyline.

Dartwick
09-30-2009, 12:53 PM
I see a lot of people bragging about how they like a challenge and learning curve in this thread.

But in game and out and in other forums I see a lot of people *****ing about what a headache it is to get everyone together in the for an adventure.

Most normal people dont want a challenge getting organized. We do that all day in jobs. We want a challenge in the dungeon, fighting monsters and find loot.



Turbine can listen to the few old timers that arent enough to support this game or they can listen to the multitude people who try it and leave.

Renvar
09-30-2009, 01:22 PM
I see your point, Dartwick, but I like the quest giving mechanics and the locations, for the most part.

I think it adds to the realism of the world. If someone hires you in a tavern to take a job, they will wait in the tavern for your completion. Take the house D depths series. These guys don't hang out by the sewer all day long. Who's gonna do that? Or with the Sharn Syndicate, that coin lord is not going to hang out in back alleys. When you get hired you will come to him and he will give you your assignment.

I like that Harbormaster Zin used to sit in his office and you had to go see him to get your writ of commendation.

In some cases, like Proof is in the Poison, a concerned citizen is hanging out on the sidewalk right by the quest enterance because they saw/heard something suspcious. That makes sense too. Same with the Guard in the WW. He's in the sewer because he's looking for his cousins. Right by the quest enterance.

I could go on and on, but the point is that the quest giver is usually somewhat logically placed and it makes sense for the story and realism of the world. I understand that makes it more challenging to find things and more time consuming, but I think it is a fine trade off.

Now, I'm not a power leveler who tries to maximize his XP/minute. I play the game for enjoyment and challenge. If I have fun and run a few quests to completion with a good group, I'm happy. It doesn't matter to me that if we had zerged or not had to run back and forth between quests that I could have squeezed in another quest or two.

It's a shame you are not enjoying the game. I'm not sure what world you are running on, but if you are on Khyber, send me a PM and I will run some quests with you, answer questions and show you around. There are lots of players out there would be willing to be helpful and encourage new players to be successful in game. I'm not sure the dev's need to make changes to get that result.

Bosco
09-30-2009, 01:27 PM
Really surprised I haven't seen some Vet fireworks explode yet on this. Sure there are a few jabs thrown in here and there but you guys are pulling your punches with kid gloves on. Come on guys you are better then that.

Sohryu
09-30-2009, 01:35 PM
BTW: It is really annoying being asked to share Durk's got a Secret' - considering they moved the NPC to approximately 2 metres from the quest entrance (6 feet for you wierdos ;)).

I had someone like that last time I was in the Harbor.

OMGLazyNoob has joined the party.
Me: We're doing Den of the Kobold Brothers, standing outside the quest right now.
OMGLazyNoob: share plz?
Me: The questgiver is right next to the entrance.
OMGLazyNoob: ...share plz?
Me: Just come to us and you can pick up the quest right before you go in, takes 2 seconds.
OMGLazyNoob: ....
OMGLazyNoob: so you gonna share it?
Me: *headdesk*

kingfisher
09-30-2009, 01:40 PM
-
Hey!
I drink Beer.
AND I've been Wildly successful with girls my whole life!
I'm the Anti-Nerd in a Nerds World.
-
(sniff sniff) I love you guys!
<gulp gulp Burrrrrp>


chicks dig me (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CuDtd7uXkA)

Turial
09-30-2009, 01:42 PM
...
Turbine can listen to the few old timers that arent enough to support this game or they can listen to the multitude people who try it and leave.

The vets have kept this game going for 3 years when it would have otherwise died.

The vets have stood by and watched module after module pump out low level content and make the game easier and easier, while little high level content has come out.

The vets have watched multiple changes to the game that were put in place listening to the "multitude of people who try it and leave" while few of their suggestions were implemented.

This game isn't World of Warcraft, where players only really group for high level content. This is an instance based game where you group for 90% of the content and teamwork maybe required both inside and outside of the instances.

Dartwick
09-30-2009, 01:59 PM
To the people thinking am a disgruntled noob. Thanks for the offers to group but thats not the case.

I played the game before. I have a lvl 11. Nothing special but I can find my own way around just fine. I personally dont appreciate some of the back and forth but I can cope, its not a mental challenge for sure.
I quit thhen mainly because I got bored waiting for people to group with. But the pops may get higher now so thats cool.

But Im trying to get guild mates and old friends from other games ranging from UO to WOW to EVE to come over now that its free.
Almost everyone gets annoyed and quits after a couple days. Its not that they cant handle it - its they trudging around playing the click the icon dude game is boring.

Arnya
09-30-2009, 05:33 PM
You ask what people do when they are heading to a new area to do a new quest? ...Learn.

When Mod9 launched (live or Lamannia), we had a brand new area - Amrath.

How did we find Amrath? Some of us went and read our mail, which we had noticed the little warning icon for (Just so you don't have to run allll the way to the mailbox which is positioned conveniently in each public instance, just to see if you have mail, because a little unicorn icon floating in space is soooo RP :)).

Others used our brains, or did a little exploring.

When we got into the new area (Through the Twelve - I just ran there as I guessed where to go, having a Hall of Planes and all) we had no idea where to go or who the quest givers were - we explored.

Then we had a whole new slayer/explorer map with quests in it. Guess what we did?

No - we didn't Google a map and download it - WE EXPLORED!!!

Nobody could share the quest 'cos nobody had it!

Please, for the love of all that's D&D, use your brains.

Failing that, just admit to yourself that this game just isn't for you no matter how free it its.

DoctorWhofan
09-30-2009, 05:40 PM
BTW: It is really annoying being asked to share Durk's got a Secret' - considering they moved the NPC to approximately 2 metres from the quest entrance (6 feet for you wierdos ;)).

I find this VERY ANNOYING. Tempest's Spine run, for example, I get a chorus of "Please share" when you have to talk to the person anyways to teleport to Tempest's Spine!

Bosco
09-30-2009, 05:44 PM
But Im trying to get guild mates and old friends from other games ranging from UO to WOW to EVE to come over now that its free.
Almost everyone gets annoyed and quits after a couple days. Its not that they cant handle it - its they trudging around playing the click the icon dude game is boring.

I have had similar experiences trying to grab players from eq2 over here. Point is there is usually a reason someone is playing the same MMO for 2 plus years. Unless they just do not like the MMO they are currently engaged in, they will be there for the dying days professing their love from the rooftops.

Same goes for DDO players that left and tried to get me to join that other huge mmo who's name I will not mention. My first impressions of this gigantic mmo with enormous amounts of players was..............what a piece of garbage.

Different strokes for different fokes. If they change this game to look more like other mmos they stand to lose their player base for those reasons. People are here for a reason and people are over there for a reason.

Milolyen
10-01-2009, 01:56 PM
Almost everyone gets annoyed and quits after a couple days. Its not that they cant handle it - its they trudging around playing the click the icon dude game is boring.

Ummm how is this any different in this game than in any other? Lets look at sharn quest set. Talk to quest giver ... he asks you to take care of xxx and report back to him. You do quest and report back. No different than WoW or AoC or EQ. Then the same quest giver says good job but now I have this other job for you. (this is now a NEW QUEST) I know EQ and AoC both had quest givers that did the EXACT same thing ... go fetch me x wolf pelts. You get them and return. Quest giver says great now I need x spider silk (or some other thing) then you go get that and come back. Quest giver say very good now we are almost done ... just need xxxx. Difference here is ... these quests actually have more of a story to them than the "Its going to be a harsh winter and I injured myself so I can not hunt for the materials I need to supply the village with coats ... can you please help me" stories of the other games.

Milolyen

ahpook
10-01-2009, 02:58 PM
I see a lot of people bragging about how they like a challenge and learning curve in this thread.

But in game and out and in other forums I see a lot of people *****ing about what a headache it is to get everyone together in the for an adventure.

Most normal people dont want a challenge getting organized. We do that all day in jobs. We want a challenge in the dungeon, fighting monsters and find loot.

Let me be blunt. Many of us vets think the system has already been over simplfied. It is trivial to pick up a quest at this time. We don't want to play with people that are too stupid or lazy to be able to figure out such a simple game system. We don't want to be figuring out a new raid with these idiots in our party.



Turbine can listen to the few old timers that arent enough to support this game or they can listen to the multitude people who try it and leave.

I strongly encourage you to provide your feedback when you leave.

Sharzade
10-01-2009, 03:06 PM
The instances are awesome. The best in online gaming.

But its such a bloody headache getting getting all the right people spoken too in the right order and finding the right guy in town that people get discouraged and quit.

Sure some people endure it and will talk about how easy it is, but you notice how many people try the game then quit? Thats the problem.

In Pen and Paper you dont have to spend 15 minutes running around the room before you start making sure you touch all the chairs in the right order. But that essentially what you have to do in this game.

It should be much easier and faster for a group of friends or a pick up group to get into a quest instance.

Click the quest journal goblet symbol on the game toolbar. Highlight the quest you're doing.

Then look at the map orb. On it, an arrow will point you to the quest giver, and once you've talked to him, it'll point to the quest entrance. When the quest is done, the arrow will take you back to the questgiver so that you can turn it in for an end reward.

It's a bit tricky figuring out game interfaces, but I hope this helps. :)

Sharz
;)
:D

Mercules
10-01-2009, 03:13 PM
But Im trying to get guild mates and old friends from other games ranging from UO to WOW to EVE to come over now that its free.
Almost everyone gets annoyed and quits after a couple days. Its not that they cant handle it - its they trudging around playing the click the icon dude game is boring.

Because we all know that in WoW and Eve we never have to travel around looking for quest givers or find specific people to gain our rewards or advance the Mission/Quest. :rolleyes:

Get REAL. Turbine Devs MOVED most of the Harbor Quests entrances and NPC Quest Givers. Durk used to be in the Leaky Dingy which was not all that far from the entrance to the quest. Now he is standing RIGHT NEXT TO IT. Guard Jung used to be over by the Harbor Master's house in the middle and his quest on the far West side of the Harbor, now he is RIGHT IN FRONT OF IT. The Harbor Master himself used to be in his house and you had to go to him to get your Writ to get out of the Harbor. Now he stands IN FRONT OF WWs and tells you what to do.

I refuse to believe your friends left for that specific reason when the other games you mentioned force you to travel much greater distances to accomplish the quests and return to quest giver.

Bloodprice
10-01-2009, 03:22 PM
because they don't have HALF-ORCS!!!

plus many other races.

Gnomes anybody?
Half-Elf?

They should have put Half-orcs in before favored soul class.

heck... they should have put some other classes in before favored soul class...

jakeelala
10-01-2009, 03:29 PM
I am pretty sure this isn't why the game isn't a "huge" success. More players leave over other things than NPC's.

What it really comes down to is stigma and name recognition. In this computerized world, Warcraft was a known game for ages and much more popular than DnD. Lord of the Rings is a massively famous name.

DnD carries a stigma of soda-swigging nerds and is not quite as popular as the aforementioned titles.

To be honest, and I don't agree with what you say very often or how you say it, but this I agree with completely. Having Dungeons and Dragons in the name of this game is hugely stupid.

Anyone who cares and likes that it's based on D&D would know without it being in the name (like NWN). For the people who don't have a positive association with "Dungeons and Dragons", this probably a deterrent. World of Warcraft was part of the family of games like Starcraft, and Warcraft, which have cache and people associate as just immensely popular games for lots of different people. I think teh D&D in the title really sort of pigeon holes the game.

FWIW

Missing_Minds
10-01-2009, 03:44 PM
because they don't have HALF-ORCS!!!

Fair enough.

Gnomes anybody?
NO. enough said.

Half-Elf?
Sure. Add them in.

They should have put Half-orcs in before favored soul class.

heck... they should have put some other classes in before favored soul class...

Fair enough... but, what did they ahve to do to create the FvS? Emm... double spell points? tech is there. Spells? Already in game. Brand new unique never made before ablities... emm.. that comprises all of "wings".

FvS was far CHEAPER to add to the game than any race that requires a HUGE amount of animations that have to be created from scratch, Let alone making certain all current armor skins will fit correctly. That is a LOT of work, and why you haven't seen new races yet.

Dark elf was a pallete swap, and add in some additional enhancments and done.

Croix
10-01-2009, 04:26 PM
I can only imagine the nightmare for coding druids and all their shapeshifting abilities, though Im sure It would bring alot of subscribers though too. Same for the race of shifters and Kalashtar.

As far as quest givers and exploring........isn't that what defines many aspects of D&D? I think what they did with Korthos village and moving the quest givers in the harbor is great. I never did have a hard time finding anything even at release, but being a PnPer I guess my opinion is biased *sigh*.

Saice
10-01-2009, 09:07 PM
I had someone like that last time I was in the Harbor.

OMGLazyNoob has joined the party.
Me: We're doing Den of the Kobold Brothers, standing outside the quest right now.
OMGLazyNoob: share plz?
Me: The questgiver is right next to the entrance.
OMGLazyNoob: ...share plz?
Me: Just come to us and you can pick up the quest right before you go in, takes 2 seconds.
OMGLazyNoob: ....
OMGLazyNoob: so you gonna share it?
Me: *headdesk*

You get this with any game. There will always be a large number of players that do not care about any of the story or even what they are doing. They just want the xp and loot and level 20 as quick as can be.

But it would be nice if there was some system for tracking down quest givers. I know many a noob that has trouble locating the right npc the first time even with decent map reading skills. What can be done that would make it easier with out making it autopilot? got me.

I don't think game interface difficulty is an issue with how successful the game is. Heck if flying spreadsheets of doom (EvE) can be complex and successful anything can. (As aside I like EvE) I think the big thing is DnD really is branded a nerd/geek game and even as that goes the hardcore DnDers tend to love or outright hate DDO (related to just how much the like its difference from PnP). I think it comes down to people that want a fantasy MMO head more towards the big names/new shinny ones just becuase its the cool thing to do. DDO is and always will be nitch and as such is going to have low numbers. Going cash shop was probably one of there best moves to keep it from going totally belly up. But as such its going to now draw a lot more of the head desking action all F2P games have.

Ok yeah went off on my own little thing there sorry.

Letrii
10-02-2009, 01:54 AM
Adventure Compendium tells us who starts quest and what area, but maps are still rather large sometimes. How about clicking on a quest gives option to mark quest as current target for gold arrow mini map thingie.

Hendrik
10-02-2009, 10:32 AM
Adventure Compendium tells us who starts quest and what area, but maps are still rather large sometimes. How about clicking on a quest gives option to mark quest as current target for gold arrow mini map thingie.

Well, you can click on any Icon on the map to get a mini-map arrow to point you in the right direction.

Dartwick
10-02-2009, 10:47 PM
Let me be blunt. Many of us vets think... blah blah



Let me be blunt.

There are not "many" vets playing. This game is in the process of being retooled because there was not enough players to support the license.

quickgrif
10-02-2009, 10:55 PM
Let me be blunt.

There are not "many" vets playing. This game is in the process of being retooled because there was not enough players to support the license.

Not many vets playing? Want to run by that by me again? We lost some people to time and some to the long drought as they retooled. Not to mention the drain atari put on this games resources. But there are a few of us around. :rolleyes:

enochiancub
10-02-2009, 10:57 PM
Then what the hades is your definition of many if you think there aren't "many" vets playing?

Letrii
10-03-2009, 05:00 AM
Well, you can click on any Icon on the map to get a mini-map arrow to point you in the right direction.

I know, I was commenting on people having trouble finding a quest npc on the map. This option would help them. <shrug>

Mercules
10-04-2009, 02:03 AM
Let me be blunt.

There are not "many" vets playing. This game is in the process of being retooled because there was not enough players to support the license.

Were that true the doors would already be closed. The game was redesigned in effort to make it more profitable. The vets were paying for it, but not enough to make it highly profitable.


We can be even more blunt. Are you sure you didn't make up your friend's reasons for not liking the game... or maybe even the friends part? I can't think of a single MMO where you gain a quest from someone, walk 2 yards over, complete said quest, walk two yards back, except DDO. In fact, sometimes you don't even have to walk that much. Gwylan's Stand comes to mind.

Dartwick
10-04-2009, 09:27 AM
You guys can pretend your some heroic army or something keeping DDO alive

But the devs know whats happening and its there attention I want not yours.

Aspenor
10-04-2009, 09:37 AM
You guys can pretend your some heroic army or something keeping DDO alive

But the devs know whats happening and its there attention I want not yours.

You pretend you actually know about what you're speaking, but you don't. I outlined the real reason long ago. Part of a role-playing game is speaking with NPC's. You're going to have to deal with it.

Kistilan
10-04-2009, 09:48 AM
You pretend you actually know about what you're speaking, but you don't. I outlined the real reason long ago. Part of a role-playing game is speaking with NPC's. You're going to have to deal with it.

Wait, he basically insinuated this game isn't a huge success because you have to speak with NPCs???!? :confused: I admit I jumped into this thread only seeing an Aspenor response and figured there was something to be learned.

Lorz
10-04-2009, 10:22 AM
The difficult / hard part of DDO is what makes it a winner in my book.

If you want a simple any idiot can play game go play WoW.

Remember 1/2 of all people are below average by the very definition of average.

Which are you?