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Zirconia
09-25-2009, 08:33 PM
Long time PnP, new DDO player here. I've got several friends who want to start up a DDO party now that we can do it for cheap (e.g. free), so far its looking like 2 paladins, 1 cleric, occassionally a barbarian or fighter (she hasn't decided yet) and me. Thus, from reading here I was tentatively planning a Rogue 2/Wizard 18 to fill the party holes. I expect we'll play together a couple hours a week, and take months to get very far level-wise, but have fun. I have read many of the guides on the forums, but wanted input on a few items, as unlike all but the cleric I actually feel having an effective character is important. :)

(1) I've never played a FPS and the only other MMO I've played is City of Heros. Targeting there is very different, and largely handled automatically so you can do combats completely from the keyboard, so there I use the numpad for moving with the right hand and do fighting with the left hand, since many different powers are used in each fight. I've gotten the impression from reading and the limited bit of playing I've done here that the mouse will be crucial to combat, at least for a wizard, since you have to lead moving foes and place spells. It takes me many hours of play to get decent with a combat UI, so I don't want to have to change. Should I stick pretty much with the default of left hand to move and right for the mouse?

(2) How wide of a range of character levels can reasonably work together? We don't mind some of our friends contributing less then others, but don't want anyone to be getting crushed because they are too low a level, or failing to get XPs because they are too high.

(3) I've seen a bit of discussion of Rogue 2/Wizard 18, can anyone point me to specific threads on those, in particular builds that don't require high end loot, since all of us are starting the game and are unlikely to be doing any raids any time soon? In particular, should I go elf or human or other? Elf seems nice for the Rogue side, but obviously has Con issues, and I don't have any non-free options right now.

(4) I also haven't found a guide yet to using the Chat features of the game, and how to tell if friends are online on your or another server, so any suggestions would be appreciated. Most of us don't have Ventrilo type setups.

Thanks!

Angelus_dead
09-25-2009, 08:48 PM
(2) How wide of a range of character levels can reasonably work together?
Two levels higher than you is ok. 4 levels difference would start to cause serious XP penalties. But note that due to the loose game design of DDO, it is entirely possible for a lower-level character to be more powerful than you, especially if he's been given good gear.


builds that don't require high end loot, since all of us are starting the game and are unlikely to be doing any raids any time soon? In particular, should I go elf or human or other? Elf seems nice for the Rogue side
Wizards don't actually need much in terms of loot. The +6 int item, the Super Potency stick, Heavy Fort belt, and you're pretty good to head out.

Elf doesn't contribute to rogue ability much at all, unless you mean you wanted to attack with rapiers.

Zirconia
09-26-2009, 09:31 AM
Thanks Angelus,

Doesn't Elf get +2 for Search, Spot and Listen, as well as getting free Search checks on Secret Doors (don't know if they implemented the latter in DDO)? Also, I figured having free Martial weapon proficiencies for common weapons like bows and longswords would give a wider variety of gear options as well as giving me something to do when SPs run out, especially at low levels. I presume the low light vision thing doesn't come into play in DDO.

I have no particular preference for attacking with one weapon over another, except that having both a bow and sword seemed handy in my experiments with my Lvl 1 test Rogue.

Angelus_dead
09-26-2009, 10:04 AM
Doesn't Elf get +2 for Search, Spot and Listen, as well as getting free Search checks on Secret Doors (don't know if they implemented the latter in DDO)? Also, I figured having free Martial weapon proficiencies for common weapons like bows and longswords
There's no auto-search. The +2 skill bonuses are unimportant, especially because they're not on Disable Device or UMD. The rogue levels already give you proficiency with weapons like that, so being an elf merely gives you the option to spend AP on +2 attack/damage with them. (Plus, wizards can cast a spell for martial weapon proficiency if they need it)

Those +2 combat bonuses can be a bit useful, but probably your wizard will drop them for spellcasting enhancements at medium and high level. The wizard's melee contribution will be less needed if you're assured of having other guys with you consistently.


I have no particular preference for attacking with one weapon over another, except that having both a bow and sword seemed handy in my experiments with my Lvl 1 test Rogue.
Instead of "sword", you should think "rapier" as the first choice when going into most melee fights. The rapier does more damage if your damage bonuses are over about +6, which is easy when adding up weapon bonus, elf bonus, strength bonus, and bard/cleric buffs.

lostkoss
09-26-2009, 10:21 AM
I would Just skip rogue entirely and go with a 20WIZ.

Traps are a pain, but in most cases they won't stop you from finishing a quest.

It sounds like your group will have plenty of healing.

The wizard level 20 capstone enhancement is actually pretty good.

Wizards can cast knock on locked doors. So all you would be missing out on IMO is disabling traps and a few minor melee perks you wont miss.

And have one of the Paladins roll a Bard. :) lol

Aumvaar
09-26-2009, 12:35 PM
I would Just skip rogue entirely and go with a 20WIZ.

Yea, sadly, that would be my advice, too.

Grushvak
09-26-2009, 12:49 PM
I feel like such an idiot for asking this question but... here goes. What's PnP?

Aumvaar
09-26-2009, 01:12 PM
What's PnP?

Pen and Paper, referring to the tabletop D&D game.

William_the_Bat
09-26-2009, 01:29 PM
A group of powergamers will be helped more by a full wizzie than one with a splash of rogue. A more casual group of friends will probably be better off with the rogue. The more casual players do not already know where every trap is and the best way to zerg past it.

I'd take human, mostly for the human versatility enhancement, which makes a fine substitute for the rogue skill boost you won't be able to get more than one level of. It'll also give you more skill points for all those rogue skills you have to put two points in each level to keep maxed.

I'll also give you a free feat, insightful reflexes will be a good choice, as your int will be high and your dex not even really needed.

Phidius
09-26-2009, 02:09 PM
I would Just skip rogue entirely and go with a 20WIZ.

Traps are a pain, but in most cases they won't stop you from finishing a quest.

It sounds like your group will have plenty of healing.

The wizard level 20 capstone enhancement is actually pretty good.

Wizards can cast knock on locked doors. So all you would be missing out on IMO is disabling traps and a few minor melee perks you wont miss.

And have one of the Paladins roll a Bard. :) lol

There's plenty of locks that can't be knocked, and some traps you really want to disable - especially on elite.

Not necessary by any means, but IMHO Evasion + full trap/lock skills > Wizard capstone and another metamagic feat.

Besides, it's just so much fun to splash with wizard :D

Zirconia
09-27-2009, 08:52 AM
A group of powergamers will be helped more by a full wizzie than one with a splash of rogue. A more casual group of friends will probably be better off with the rogue. The more casual players do not already know where every trap is and the best way to zerg past it.

I'd take human, mostly for the human versatility enhancement, which makes a fine substitute for the rogue skill boost you won't be able to get more than one level of. It'll also give you more skill points for all those rogue skills you have to put two points in each level to keep maxed.

I'll also give you a free feat, insightful reflexes will be a good choice, as your int will be high and your dex not even really needed.

Yeah, nobody in this regular group is ever going to have seen any of the maps or traps before, we are all new to DDO, so I thought it would be helpful to have some Rogue along. We are not big zergers anyway. And as infrequently as I/we will be playing it will be a year or two before we have to worry about capstone powers.

Sounds like the consensus is in favor of human rather than elf then, thanks. And I was definitely planning on the insightful reflexes feat, since I'll be starting with Int 18 and Dex about 10 or 12.