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View Full Version : How do mobs hit you when you are behind them?



redoubt
09-21-2009, 10:55 PM
I was running greymoon on hard on my level 8 FvS and knew that some movement would be required. Thus I moved a lot.

First I had to realize that auto-attack started no where near quick enough for face paced combat. I had to do the swings myself, since to wait for auto-attack to do even one swing meant staying still until the ogre tripple critted me (that exploit is a whole other issue.) So this one I solved, though half my attacks did not even go through. I'm guessing lag is still ..... that one up.

Second, any time (ANY time) the ogre turned to face me, I moved. Skip swinging and get out of the way, because even with 180 hitpoints and self healing you can't take that many tripple-crit exploit hits. Anyway, I'd find myself behind (behind!) the ogre and it would swing while facing away (because I had just moved) and still hit me!!! What the snot!!!

Both of these worked a couple weeks ago. What happened to the combat system? Are we supposed to only build super hp tanks and just stand toe-to-toe with these things from now on?

(Note, I just left the quest out of frustration. I was tired of spending wand charges for hits that physically where no where near me.)

Recommend: Get the graphics to sync up with the actual swings. Both for PCs and mobs. Oh, and prolly need to fix that lag thing still. :mad:

Mercules
09-22-2009, 09:05 AM
Lag? In Greymoon? Ok, I won't touch that.


In any case if you are personally having issues where your computer is a step behind the servers for some reason then you are being hit before the graphical representation on your computer which means your character actually did not in fact get out of the way in time.

I also have to point out that the Triple Swing is not an exploit, it is a special attack that is telegraphed and when you are not having issues you should be able to get away from. In fact you can interrupt that triple swing with Trips, Stunning Blows, even a Paralyzer. Probably your best bet is Command.

You are correct though, Auto Attack(especially if you are lagging) will not swing very fast. For one thing it is going to wait until IT realizes something is in range and then start swinging, well, if you are lagging at all the mob could be come and gone before it registers.

Missing_Minds
09-22-2009, 09:12 AM
Meh, I forgot how long we've been dealing with that.

Essentially you are swinging not in front of you if you are moving but five feet in front of you.

Same with mob placement if they are moving.

It is due to that that if you are in front of them, your back to them, and it is chasing you, that you will ALWAYS hit them if you swing at the air in front of you.
Great system isn't it?

Don't worry, the mobs get a benifit from it also. If you are ranged, and you are facing them, it means that your shots will NEVER register.

Don't you just love the balancing act?

Dont' worry, you still can't hit them from behind if you are chasing them in melee.

Ithrani
09-22-2009, 09:31 AM
Meh, I forgot how long we've been dealing with that.

Essentially you are swinging not in front of you if you are moving but five feet in front of you.

Same with mob placement if they are moving.

It is due to that that if you are in front of them, your back to them, and it is chasing you, that you will ALWAYS hit them if you swing at the air in front of you.
Great system isn't it?

Don't worry, the mobs get a benifit from it also. If you are ranged, and you are facing them, it means that your shots will NEVER register.

Don't you just love the balancing act?

Dont' worry, you still can't hit them from behind if you are chasing them in melee.

The issue with missing the mob despite actually being right behind during chase or hitting the mob who is chasing you while running backwards though you seem further away is due to DDO's terrible collision detection.

Basically every mob is actually about 5 feet ahead of their position while moving, so even if your touching them from behind in a chase they are about 5 feet ahead and if they are chasing you they are actually 5 feet closer then they appear.

This also explains why tumble, which "allows" you to dodge incoming attacks like the big triple swing from ogres and trolls or giants stomp, does not actually work because, also lag plays into this, if you tumble away when you see the telegraphed move and the mob chases you as it does it's attack, well it's 5 feet forward so your not really away from the mob at all.

What sucks most is the fact that this game is based on twitch reflex to survive those attacks, that was the big draw of the combat system, not twitching to increase DPS but twitching to dodge incoming arrows, ray spells, and attacks that have a tell-tale sign such as poison attacks and the triple swings. And the collision detection of the game never matched the feel of combat, it was never fixed and never will be seeing that they don't do anything over in development to improve the flaws.

Dirkan
09-22-2009, 02:41 PM
Question: How do mobs hit you when you are behind them?

Answer: With their stinking cloud ofcourse!

Lorien_the_First_One
09-22-2009, 03:55 PM
they have whirwind and supreme cleave (a working version, not like ours) for free.

Odds are, its a lag related issue. The swing-detection didn't match up with what you see on screen for when the swing happened.

Beld
09-22-2009, 04:05 PM
not all lag is server side, with your settings set correctly for your equipment, alot of the collision detection/lag problems don't happen that often....also, as was previously posted, the ogres can and will change direction in the middle of their special attacks which makes moving/tumbling/dodging a **** shoot at best. Best defense for these attacks is carry a shield in the quests that are predominately populated with these mob types when you are soloing, the shield will keep the damage down to tolerable levels and as stated earlier again, trip/sunder/command/hypno/etc will alleviate much of this. Not trying to be a jerk, and I have experienced my share of server side lag, but turning all the settings up on a rig that is not capable of handling it will introduce MASSIVE amounts of lag/collision problems in all areas and will be extremely frustrating.

kingfisher
09-22-2009, 04:07 PM
i think its called the reverse reach-around, not sure tho, ask someone from thelanis they might know

redoubt
09-22-2009, 06:02 PM
Some speed tests I ran to see how my connection is doing.

For comparison, in game I have:
65-70ms latency and normally zero loss.

http://www.speedtest.net/result/572226158.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

http://www.speedtest.net/result/572227635.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

http://www.speedtest.net/result/572228402.png (http://www.speedtest.net)

Speakeasy to NY:
Download Speed: 5062 kbps (632.8 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 2752 kbps (344 KB/sec transfer rate)

Those numbers should well support an MMO, unless I am missing something. Also, when I turn on the frame rate metric in game it runs 80-120fps when running well. When it seems like I'm laggin it starts to climb. I've seen close to 300fps before. My assumption is this is because I'm lagged out so the computer has nothing new to process and the frame rate jumps way up.

transtemporal
09-22-2009, 06:37 PM
What Lorien said. Basically, although the ogre model might be facing the other way, the triple-hit attack is essentially 360. The only way to get away from it is to run or tumble (this is possible when the lag is behaving itself). As far as I know, Ogres and Trolls are the only mobs that get the triple-hit 360 attack.

The other part of it, as others have mentioned, is that the actual positioning and facing of the mobs model and your model may not be exactly where they are, because of lag or possibly graphics. Sometimes you can see this if you're orbiting a caster and he hits you with a spell when you're behind him. The good news is, his next spell will probably miss, even if you're in front of him! lol :)

Talon_Moonshadow
09-23-2009, 02:17 AM
I've seen a lot of stuff like this since Mod9.

I routinely hit monsters who are standing behind me.

I have been killed by monsters who didn't even begin to swing at me until after I was dead.

There is some really strange "lag?" going on with the new combat system IMO.