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capnquack
09-17-2009, 07:31 AM
I put "intentional" use because I've already been somewhat mocked by the vets of this game about considering playing a FvS of the Silvery Flame - who specializes in bow use. I have a ra/ro who occasionally bows when necessary and I find the ability to kite very enjoyable. Looking through all the various races, I find that elves (another so-called 'noob choice') have the best enhancement for bows.

Using an elf and maximizing my dex, wearing light armor, and taking every single bow-related enhancement, could this be a viable spec?


I assume that there's a bias against bows for a reason - can anyone tell me what it is? (other than dividing oozes - which I'm not stupid enough to do)

I'm also curious if I'll get laughed out of groups/not permitted to come to dungeons/told I'm a noob for doing so.

krunchy71
09-17-2009, 07:35 AM
Most groups/people don't have a problem with ranged weapons users, and if built well they can dish out a lot of damage. But in almost all cases they lag quite a lot behind melee in terms of the damage they put out. Also, as a melee player it can be frustrating chasing after monsters that a bow-user is kiting around.

But at the end of the day its Player > build.

Elsbet
09-17-2009, 07:36 AM
The bias is that ranged doesn't do the damage per second that melee does and there is a significant player base that thinks you're only doing well if you kill faster, as opposed to smarter. Depending on how you build it and how well you play it, ranging can be effective, but you will find you do best if you recognize that you won't have the most kills and that frequently you'll be most effective making things easier to kill (i.e. stat damaging).

andycool
09-17-2009, 07:39 AM
I believe that if you want to try this out "go for it". You will still be healing your party and adding to the kill count with your ranged weapon. I've been playing D&D for over 35 years and have seen all the combs going and if you think it is fun to run, go for it. I may even try it myself.

GreyRogue
09-17-2009, 07:43 AM
I put "intentional" use because I've already been somewhat mocked by the vets of this game about considering playing a FvS of the Silvery Flame - who specializes in bow use. I have a ra/ro who occasionally bows when necessary and I find the ability to kite very enjoyable. Looking through all the various races, I find that elves (another so-called 'noob choice') have the best enhancement for bows.

Using an elf and maximizing my dex, wearing light armor, and taking every single bow-related enhancement, could this be a viable spec?


I assume that there's a bias against bows for a reason - can anyone tell me what it is? (other than dividing oozes - which I'm not stupid enough to do)

I'm also curious if I'll get laughed out of groups/not permitted to come to dungeons/told I'm a noob for doing so.

I say play what you find fun, but ranged weapons are quantitatively worse than melee weapons in this game. The rate of fire is too slow to match the dps of a melee weapon and bows' crit profile (only crit on a 20, but 3x damage at least) is inferior to the best melee weapons.

That said, as long as you don't mind not being the uberest character on your server and you're willing to take out melee weapons or cast spells instead at appropriate times, a bow-based character could be fun. One thing you might want to consider is a level or two of ranger for the extra BAB and the Bow Strength feat for free. Also, I don't think that elf is a "noob choice" and is actually a good choice for a character planning to use bows a lot due to the DEX enhancements and the bow enhancements.

Now, all of THAT said, you will probably catch some flak once you get past the low levels. Vets all know that ranged combat is inherently gimped as things currently stand, so you might find yourself not allowed into certain groups and you will almost certainly be told that you are a gimp or whatever. My advice about that is don't worry about those people. There are a lot of people who don't care if you don't bring the bestest most min-maxed uber character to the group. If you will find that build fun, give it a try! The worst that could happen is that it doesn't work out for you and you end up rolling something else.

Elsbet
09-17-2009, 07:49 AM
Now, all of THAT said, you will probably catch some flak once you get past the low levels. Vets all know that ranged combat is inherently gimped as things currently stand, so you might find yourself not allowed into certain groups and you will almost certainly be told that you are a gimp or whatever. My advice about that is don't worry about those people. There are a lot of people who don't care if you don't bring the bestest most min-maxed uber character to the group. If you will find that build fun, give it a try! The worst that could happen is that it doesn't work out for you and you end up rolling something else.

And those vets aren't worth running with anyway. The player almost always trumps the build. If you don't suck and contribute, the people you will want to run with will happily take you in a group.

7-day_Trial_Monkey
09-17-2009, 07:49 AM
Dual wielding Khopesh's my fighter crits on a 16 for x3 damage. You won't come close to that damage output.

And if you are in a group and running around kiting a mob, the fighters will likely ignore you since chasing that mob themselves to try and help is a huge waste of time.

If you don't want a negative rep, use the bow, but once the mob has run up to you, stay where you are and swtich to melee weps. That way your group can chop it down with you.

Kintro
09-17-2009, 07:53 AM
I assume that there's a bias against bows for a reason - can anyone tell me what it is? (other than dividing oozes - which I'm not stupid enough to do)

I'm also curious if I'll get laughed out of groups/not permitted to come to dungeons/told I'm a noob for doing so.

Bows rule at lower levels when things are killed in one or two hits before they even reach the group.

The bias against bows in mid levels tends to be caused by the kiting of monsters. If it's running away the melees in the group can't hit it and the quest takes longer to complete. If the melees put points into Intimidate it wouldn't be a problem but not everyone sees how great that skill is.

There's also a problem caused by the layout of most of the quests in DDO. Tight corridors and doorways make it very hard to target anything before it's in melee range.

This isn't to say ranged rangers are useless, you just have to know how to play them with your group. Say you're at a doorway with the melees blocking it; target the spell casters in the back and you'll save the cleric a lot of healing. Precise Shot will allow you to shoot through the stuff at the front, once you get Improved Precise Shot you'll also be damaging everything in the way. Many Shot will drop things very quickly. Debuff bows can help the group without drawing too much agro to yourself (Wounding, Cursespewing, Paralyzing, etc).

Also try to remember that sometimes you'll just be better off hitting things with a sword. Invest in Weapon Finesse and a few nice rapiers/shortswords to complement your arsenal of bows.

EDIT: Forgot to say: get some hitpoints! Just because you're ranging doesn't mean you can neglect them. You will still get hit (especially if you're in a group without an Intimidator) and you're no help to the group when you're dead!

Also make sure you do your House D favour as soon as you can. The arrows from there can help a lot especially when it comes to bypassing DRs.

UnderwearModel
09-17-2009, 08:10 AM
H2H = hand to hand

The problem with ranged is you still get aggro. The bad guys will come after you. The bad guys ALWAYS know who shot them, where they are, and the best route to get to you.

Then, since you are trying use your bow, you start running around and behind things.

Then, the DPS guys and gals cannot keep up with you, and you scream that you need help.

The healer cannot heal you because you are blocked.

You try to heal yourself, but then you get hit 10 times and you lose concentration.

Moral, have enough hit points and be able to sword and board long enough to heal yourself.

I find Ranged does do VERY nicely in the wilderness areas. Gianthold, if you go in with a RANGED party of paralyzers and woundling and puncturing. You will never get hit, and everything dies very quickly. Disrupting bows work great in desert on the undead. The paralyze and WoP works great on the gnolls.

Elsbet
09-17-2009, 08:18 AM
H2H = hand to hand

The problem with ranged is you still get aggro. The bad guys will come after you. The bad guys ALWAYS know who shot them, where they are, and the best route to get to you.

Then, since you are trying use your bow, you start running around and behind things.

Then, the DPS guys and gals cannot keep up with you, and you scream that you need help.

The healer cannot heal you because you are blocked.

You try to heal yourself, but then you get hit 10 times and you lose concentration.

Moral, have enough hit points and be able to sword and board long enough to heal yourself.


Only if you're not playing smart. Everyone of those situations can be avoided.

Kite to tanks/firewalls, blade barriers. if I get agro, the first place I'm going is the biggest, baddest tank in the group.

Put points into concetration or get a concetration item.

Jump up on a wall/cliff/roof where mobs can't hit you.

Use paralyzers or stat damagers with lower DPS while the melees regain agro with higher DPS.

Quit firing for a few seconds while agro shifts.

Use diplomacy. Just don't stand next to the cleric when you do.

rimble
09-17-2009, 08:23 AM
Proper weapons are exceedingly important if you want to stick to bows/repeaters.

We've all been in that group where a ranger (not Ranger) is backpedaling backwards through the quest, still not killing it before the other melee or two in the group cut down the other dozen creatures. Nobody appreciates that.

However, I've been in a group where everything was Paralyzed the second they came into sight. I've seen undead Disrupted before I even realized they were there, and creatures in the Vale Banished before they even moved. Everyone appreciates all the bad guys already being Cursed by the time they reach the party and Multishot makes some Boss fights so brief you wonder what just happened.

1) Already have good Bows / Heavy Repeaters lined up for you when you level. Certainly having ML 8 RR required Power 5 ones would be awesome, but not necessary. At least have them waiting for you at ML 10.

2) Don't kite! (Except those times that it is appropriate) Shoot things, then melee them when they get close.

UnderwearModel
09-17-2009, 08:28 AM
This is NEW player advice. I did not realize this was experienced player advice.

I guarantee you that new players will run around and run far away from the party when being attacked.

I guarantee you that new players will run behind something and be blocked.

Ever see the hopping caster trying to avoid mobs? Yes, you have. Early on in their careers they hop to their deaths. Later they figure out to stay near the party, jump on to things(when a new player you have no idea what you can jump onto or the safe spots)

Missing_Minds
09-17-2009, 08:33 AM
Dual wielding Khopesh's my fighter crits on a 16 for x3 damage. You won't come close to that damage output.

Lets see here... the OP is playing a FvS... so healing comes to mind also. Do you want your healer board or helping out while you hold agro and whittle things down? Do you have that much of an ego? Doubt it.

Add to it, he's playing an elf. FvS can take mental toughness, and then at what.. lvl 9 or so? Be able to start going into Arcane Archer. This means infinate arrows for him. At the next stage it means d6 of force damage on every arrow AND the fact incoporial means nothing to the shots. (which doesn't mean a whole lot on the jerks that phase out of existence. But the new targeting system worked great on keeping target on DQ as she teleported about. maybe it works just as good on wraiths.)

The OP never stated they were going for DPS, but the way it was worded sounds more like for helping out and not be bored 100% of the time.

OP, I've built bards like this before. They are fun. Just as you get into the higher level quests, pick your targets wisely. That is all it takes.

Elsbet
09-17-2009, 08:38 AM
This is NEW player advice. I did not realize this was experienced player advice.

I guarantee you that new players will run around and run far away from the party when being attacked.

I guarantee you that new players will run behind something and be blocked.

Ever see the hopping caster trying to avoid mobs? Yes, you have. Early on in their careers they hop to their deaths. Later they figure out to stay near the party, jump on to things(when a new player you have no idea what you can jump onto or the safe spots)


And the information I provided is something new bow users should know. They won't make those mistakes if they are advised not to do so and are provided with sound tactics to avoid those situations as opposed to being erroneously given the impression ranging is not viable.

Your guarantees are only valid when you tell people what is wrong without telling them what is right. Advice is constructive, not destructive.

UnderwearModel
09-17-2009, 09:10 AM
And the information I provided is something new bow users should know. They won't make those mistakes if they are advised not to do so and are provided with sound tactics to avoid those situations as opposed to being erroneously given the impression ranging is not viable.

Your guarantees are only valid when you tell people what is wrong without telling them what is right. Advice is constructive, not destructive.

Please list all the safe points. Your constructive advice is missing that. How will this new player EVER know where they are until you tell them.....

Some of use are pointing out why
"I assume that there's a bias against bows for a reason - can anyone tell me what it is? (other than dividing oozes - which I'm not stupid enough to do)"

Another good way to play smart is let the DPS guys and gals go in first. Let them get aggro. This means that the ranged user has to WAIT to fight, which is hard to do.
Then, you can provide solid backup with paralysis, disrupt, banish, curse, stat damagers, etc.

Missing_Minds
09-17-2009, 09:22 AM
Point in fact, all..

New players will learn what experianced players have learned... By shooting things.

Live and learn.
Live, die, learn, get up again and kill.

The only real way for them to understand what we know is for them to learn it first hand like we did.

Zenako
09-17-2009, 10:46 AM
I put "intentional" use because I've already been somewhat mocked by the vets of this game about considering playing a FvS of the Silvery Flame - who specializes in bow use. I have a ra/ro who occasionally bows when necessary and I find the ability to kite very enjoyable. Looking through all the various races, I find that elves (another so-called 'noob choice') have the best enhancement for bows..

Elves can make some of the best archers in the game due to their enhancment choices.



Using an elf and maximizing my dex, wearing light armor, and taking every single bow-related enhancement, could this be a viable spec?.

Might not need to worry about spending all the points to Maximize Dex, especially on a 28 point build. Need to have workable CON, CHA and STR for a FvS I would think and those last few build points in DEX cost a lot of build points that could be better spent on bigger changes to other stats.




I assume that there's a bias against bows for a reason - can anyone tell me what it is? (other than dividing oozes - which I'm not stupid enough to do).

The main sources of Bias is player preference in playstyle. Quite a few players emphasize speed of completion over resources consumed for completion, and discount resources used to heal damage. Once you are well established in the game, the gold cost for resources is relatively minor for those players, so if their group needs to burn thru 100 HEAL scrolls (at 1500 gold a pop), 300 Cure Serious Wounds Potions (at 700 gold a pop) they will. HOWEVER, not everyone can afford to be so blase about costs of supplies. EFFECTIVE ranged combat should result in far lower healing burdens on a group. With a well equiped character, you can run thru many quests killing everything and hardly take any damage with skilled ranged attacks. Melee has the downside of always giving the mobs a chance to hit and hurt you. The cited time to completion issue is also a strawman. If you ever get into a group of skilled archers, you can and will blow thru most quests as fast if not faster than a melee centered group will, and almost certianly use far fewer resources doing so.

As also mentioned, when some players use ranged attacks, they are not using them in an effective or complimentary manner to a group. If a hand to hand melee character is not working as well, and perhaps rushing off to fight on their own, seldom will many players gripe about that, but when you have one ranged attacking character fighting on their own, many gripe. The difference is trivial.




I'm also curious if I'll get laughed out of groups/not permitted to come to dungeons/told I'm a noob for doing so.

Mainly noobs would give you grief. However, ANY playstyle that locks into ONE-TRUE-WAYism, is flawed. Even the uberest melee DPS build should stock some ranged attacks for when they need them. There are some circumstances where ranging is a lot less effective than melee would be, and you need to have suitable weapons to handle those circumstances.

Ranged builds take a little more care and feeding, and skilled play to pull off, but they can be very very effective, and make extremely viable solo builds.

capnquack
09-17-2009, 04:51 PM
::cough:: I'm a woman.

I understand what UnderwearModel is trying to say - I'm a noob at this game, but not to DND proper, nor to MMOs in general (where there are aggro tables and tanking classes). I know that if a mob aggros me, it's best to get to a tank, put a more defensive face on (via CD or gear change), and blow aggro-dumping abilities. Also - to start off slow if I don't want initial and possibly irreversible aggro.

Your advice is sound. Thank you for bringing it up.

My mention of kiting was mostly for soloing situations. I didn't mean to mislead anyone into thinking I'd be halfway back to the entrance, still killing a single mob and leaving my party (who needs my heals/buffs) high and dry. XD

It is a point that I'll be using a sword and board for situations where a mob cannot be kited (due to being in a group) or I have massive aggro. Likewise, I'll probably be sporting several different "flavors" of bows. I already have one of lesser reptilian bane waiting on my Ra/Ro.

thank you for reminding me about precise shot - it's a different ability in DND (sort of - in both cases you're firing into melee, but shooting 'through' people is different than simply not taking a -4 for doing so) so I wasn't really thinking about it - but once I read up on what it does in this game, it makes a huge amount of sense to take.

One more question: Is losing out on the +2 damage from Longbows/being able to cast more than one 9th level spell really worth getting two levels of ranger (for Bow Strength and Rapid Shot)?

Lerincho
09-17-2009, 04:54 PM
I put "intentional" use because I've already been somewhat mocked by the vets of this game about considering playing a FvS of the Silvery Flame - who specializes in bow use. I have a ra/ro who occasionally bows when necessary and I find the ability to kite very enjoyable. Looking through all the various races, I find that elves (another so-called 'noob choice') have the best enhancement for bows.

Using an elf and maximizing my dex, wearing light armor, and taking every single bow-related enhancement, could this be a viable spec?


I assume that there's a bias against bows for a reason - can anyone tell me what it is? (other than dividing oozes - which I'm not stupid enough to do)

I'm also curious if I'll get laughed out of groups/not permitted to come to dungeons/told I'm a noob for doing so.

Bottom line for you is this:

It's YOUR character, do with it as YOU please. If it's fun, do it.

Arianrhod
09-17-2009, 04:58 PM
As soon as you scrape together some cash, start scouting the AH and the Deneith weapon broker for something called a "Silver Bow". And if you get to level 8+ without finding one you can afford, run the quest "Church and the Cult" to loot one (don't try to solo it unless you can cast flame strike or something - it's best to bring a wizard or sorceror for the final encounter).

capnquack
09-17-2009, 05:00 PM
As soon as you scrape together some cash, start scouting the AH and the Deneith weapon broker for something called a "Silver Bow". And if you get to level 8+ without finding one you can afford, run the quest "Church and the Cult" to loot one (don't try to solo it unless you can cast flame strike or something - it's best to bring a wizard or sorceror for the final encounter).

Thank you for the hint. I'll remember that!

Vormaerin
09-17-2009, 05:33 PM
It really depends on what you are looking for and what you plan on doing. A lot of casters use ranged weapons until they get enough spell points to be able to rely solely on spells. A Favored Soul arcane archer would just be taking that further and more effectively than most.

You will always find some morons who can't handle any divergence from their own opinions. But they are generally not fun to play with anyway. If you are a caster who can use a bow to contribute, you'll be fine even at high levels. If you are trying to make an archer, who happens to have some spells, you'll probably find yourself struggling in the long run. Even rangers and fighters struggle to compete with archery as a focus; a favored soul even more so.

In the long run, you'll probably want to look more at debuffing weapons (paralyzers, cursespewers, etc) rather than straight damage effects on your bows.

geoffhanna
09-17-2009, 06:16 PM
Tell the naysayers to just heal themselves then LOL

Meanwhile, you casually toggle on Multishot and wail a batch of mobs with force-imbued arcane arrows, tossing out mass cures between volleys.

That'll shut 'em up :)

p.s. Elsbet was right build up your diplo

p.p.s here's a build that embodies this ... it is a 32-poiint build though you'd need to tweak it some: the Favoranger (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=200844)

Glenalth
09-17-2009, 10:46 PM
I have a level 16 ranged ranger and here's the big points that you need to deal with.

90% of the time your DPS is way under that of a melee character due to slower attack speed and shots that don't register as attacks when you physically miss your target even before the die roll. The other 10% of the time, Multi-Shot is cutting through mobs like butter.

If you are killing mobs before they make it to your group, you are a valued asset to the group.
If they are making it to the party and pounding you into the ground, the healer will yell at you.
If they are making it to the party and then you are running around kiting things, the melee will yell at you.



Becoming a valuable member of the party using ranged combat.

#0. (Because it's important) Communicate with the party.
Let them know what your plan is for aggro'd mobs that you can't drop fast enough. Typically tell them to stand still and let you drag the mob to them, they usually get some free swings before the mobs attack them that way too and they won't be angry about having to chase things down. This also saves SP for the healers keeping them happy.
Tell people if your multi-shot has pulled aggro of a boss off of your tanks so they don't have to take the time to figure out who it was.

#1. Use the terrain. Often there are good perches that you can reach due to the Jump spell this game helpfully gives you. Sometimes a couple steps to the left or right can force the mob to take a long route to you instead of walking directly to you, figure these places out.

#2. Use that Multi-Shot when appropriate. Sure, that kobold went down quickly, but 30 seconds later you weren't ready for that hill giant that came around the corner. This is your premiere ranged ability, use it well.

#3. Aim for soft targets like arcane casters that have fewer hit points and that you really don't want closing range with the party. Toggle your Precise Shot if you don't want to draw aggro from the others.

#4. Debuff strong mobs during melee. Cycle through curse spewing, destruction, paralyzing, and stat damage as needed. Typically you won't be doing enough damage to draw aggro, but your melee folks will take good advantage of the weakened mob.

#5. Experiment. Standing in your party and then hitting incoming mobs with Diplomacy seems like a winner for avoiding the mob chase.

Vormaerin
09-18-2009, 03:57 AM
Maximizing ranged damage takes a lot of feats. Improved Crit: Ranged, Precise Shot, Improved Precise Shot, Multi Shot, Rapid Shot, and Point Blank Shot. And a lot of Dex by Favored Soul standards (19 or so). That's 6 of your 7 available Feats as an elf Favored Soul. If you multiclass to fighter, you can get a couple extra feats, but at the cost of some spell casting power.

If you don't take all those feats, your damage will drop from "well behind the melee types" to "somewhere below the floor".

As you can see, that's a harsh expense, so most people aren't willing to pay it. Which in some people leads to cries of "gimp".

capnquack
09-18-2009, 07:42 AM
Maximizing ranged damage takes a lot of feats. Improved Crit: Ranged, Precise Shot, Improved Precise Shot, Multi Shot, Rapid Shot, and Point Blank Shot. And a lot of Dex by Favored Soul standards (19 or so). That's 6 of your 7 available Feats as an elf Favored Soul. If you multiclass to fighter, you can get a couple extra feats, but at the cost of some spell casting power.

If you don't take all those feats, your damage will drop from "well behind the melee types" to "somewhere below the floor".

As you can see, that's a harsh expense, so most people aren't willing to pay it. Which in some people leads to cries of "gimp".

I was mucking with a builder last night and it looks like that's the way to go - plus two levels of ranger to get Rapidshot (very important) and Bow Strength (less important) (also nice is getting access to Ranger dex enhancement) a single level of fighter might also be doable - one extra feat could make this build work (and I'd still have access to the 9th level healing spell).

Gimp is in the eye of the beholder - looking at spell choices if what I take is mostly healing spells with the intent to bow to do damage I'll be effective in groups as a healer/buffer/rezzer who can occasionally fire a few shots through the front lines when no one needs immediate heals, and have all the fun in the world kiting things around and around when I'm soloing. If my party can't handle their healer firing a bow (instead of trying to be in the front lines and possibly getting turned into muck) they need to get over themselves.

And I tried your trick about getting up into a spot where I could shoot the mobs but they couldn't hit me with melee, that's a nice one - I had a preconceived notion about mobs bugging out (a la WoW) if they couldn't reach you. Instead, most of them just draw ranged weapons and fire (and if they can't, sit there trying to get at you). It's nice to know you can actually use terrain like that.

Also - again - I would not kite in a party setting. Not unless the leader is like "we need you to take that single mob far far away from us, we've got heals, don't worry, just go."

Mezzing bows (arrows?) sound very interesting. I'll have to keep an eye out.

Turial
09-18-2009, 07:48 AM
....
Another good way to play smart is let the DPS guys and gals go in first. Let them get aggro. This means that the ranged user has to WAIT to fight, which is hard to do.
Then, you can provide solid backup with paralysis, disrupt, banish, curse, stat damagers, etc.

The quote DPS people should also have intimidate (barbs get it, fighters get it, rogues get it, paladins can cross class it with a decent cha, Only other rangers and monks really lack it). Then there would be no worry about a ranged combat user pulling aggro, or about them having to run after the ranged combat user because a decent intimidate will pull the trash off easily.

Turial
09-18-2009, 07:52 AM
Maximizing ranged damage takes a lot of feats. Improved Crit: Ranged, Precise Shot, Improved Precise Shot, Multi Shot, Rapid Shot, and Point Blank Shot. And a lot of Dex by Favored Soul standards (19 or so). That's 6 of your 7 available Feats as an elf Favored Soul. If you multiclass to fighter, you can get a couple extra feats, but at the cost of some spell casting power.
....

For a non-ranger ranged combat build I wouldn't recommend taking Improved precise shot. It takes a lot of learning to "training" to figure out when one should and should not have IPS active. Precise shot is where I would stop.

capnquack
09-18-2009, 08:54 AM
For a non-ranger ranged combat build I wouldn't recommend taking Improved precise shot. It takes a lot of learning to "training" to figure out when one should and should not have IPS active. Precise shot is where I would stop.

I'm willing to learn - my impression from reading it is that given you have a line of mobs in a row (or in a group with some in front, some behind) you flick it on and target the guys in the back. In theory your arrows will take out the guys in front in order to hit the guys in back, correct?

Not worth having on, if there's no additional guys to "shoot through" in which case, turn it off.

Tell me the technique if you're willing to share it - I'm more than willing to learn.

Djeserit
09-18-2009, 09:20 AM
A lot of solid advice here already:

Get a Silver Bow ASAP - Find a high level arcane friend to help you farm one. (If you are on Ghallanda or Thelanis, PM me and I will help). Only takes a few minutes. Silver Bow is actually min level 6. http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Weapons/SilverLongbow.jpg

Have fun, have a melee option, don't max out DEX, don't annoy your group by kitting too much, ignore the grouches.


Some other points:

You can't interrupt the shooting animation once started. So be careful when you attack. You won't be able to stop and heal anyone. So balancing your combat role and your healing role will be a lot harder with ranged than in melee.

Elf - a good choice, IMO. You get additional +2 damage and to hit with your weapon. You get automatic proficiency with longsword, a third tier melee weapon for backup. No other race gets auto proficiencies. You will also qualify for arcane archer enhancements.

Think about getting at least 18 levels of FvS. You will have prestige enhancements someday.

Get Fearsome armor, a healer's best friend.

Do make sure your CON is still respectable, not a dump stat.

Zenako
09-18-2009, 09:54 AM
Interesting, now that I think more about it, you are basically building an Archer Battle Cleric. It will be fun, and challenging. I have a Pure Cleric (who fights a lot) (alas sometimes better than some pure melees I traveled with - but that is another story) and it takes some practice being able to kill mobs and cast spells in a timely fashion, but in some ways it might be easier with an archer build, since you can be back from the middle of the fray, and see how things progress much easier and be able to keep everyone in line of sight. (One problem melee clerics run into a lot, is getting spells blocked by line of sight issues when they are in the middle of things, as well as getting interrupted more often if they do not have good Concentration Skill and or Quicken Feats).

I knew someone who sort of did a ranged attack build, but it was using Heavy Repeaters on their cleric. That was real niche build but that player had a VERY nice assortment of repeaters in the bank to use, and they were quite effective.

The nice thing about this twist is that if gives another race a viable reason to choose Favored Soul over the stock choices, due to the racial boons and enhancements and how well they play into that concept with the Arcane Archer. mmmmm

as for the Silver Bow - it has the distinction of being the lowest minimum level for use weapon that is probably still in almost every end game archers stock. Its just that good (unless you got lucky with the Abbott Raid...).

geoffhanna
09-18-2009, 04:34 PM
oops accidental duplication. My bad

Vormaerin
09-18-2009, 04:51 PM
For a non-ranger ranged combat build I wouldn't recommend taking Improved precise shot. It takes a lot of learning to "training" to figure out when one should and should not have IPS active. Precise shot is where I would stop.

My point was that getting ranged combat up to "not bad" is very expensive in terms of feats. Whether any of those feats are useful really depends on just how much she expects to do damage with her bow vs using her spells.

Its not like it really hurts her healing, as I said. Just take Maximize as her other feat and she'll be good to go for healing and blade barriers.

Djeserit
09-18-2009, 04:58 PM
If...

a healer's main job is to figure out who is going to get hit next and postion herself to heal that person

then...

a ranged healer will have it over a melee healer. Agreeing with Zenako.

But... you can't heal in the middle of the firing animation the way you can with a melee, so it takes a bit more time/preparation/battle awareness. It's not for everyone. The cleric in my group last night was complaining about this when he tried to use a crossbow on some mobs.

Healer is a tough job. To be really good, you have to have the kind of brain that can sort a lot of info quickly. Not everybody can do well, and trying to add another dimension, melee or ranged, makes it harder.

In the US army, they don't give a rifle to a 2nd Lt., just a side arm. For just this reason. Your job is to think and direct others. Start shooting yourself and you can loose your understanding of what needs to be done.

In DDO, ranged healing presents its own challenges, but it can also be very rewarding. Certainlyif you are good at it, you will add more value than a healbot.

spifflove
09-18-2009, 05:03 PM
Its not the archer its the player that is good or bad. You could adapt this following build to suit your favored soul or if you must use a bow understand that you will either splash monk or lose some of your archer options.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=198904

Vormaerin
09-18-2009, 05:06 PM
Well, thankfully she's not using a crossbow. That would be really pretty bad news because of the RoF issues. A longbow is a much better option.

spifflove
09-18-2009, 05:08 PM
Well, thankfully she's not using a crossbow. That would be really pretty bad news because of the RoF issues. A longbow is a much better option.

It will do more dps. But bigger than that the larger crit range means double the effects.

Arianrhod
09-18-2009, 05:16 PM
Well, thankfully she's not using a crossbow. That would be really pretty bad news because of the RoF issues. A longbow is a much better option.


It will do more dps. But bigger than that the larger crit range means double the effects.

Actually, I think the reference to the ROF was in how the reloading animation messes up spellcasting. It's noticeably worse with a crossbow than a longbow ;)

Vormaerin
09-18-2009, 05:32 PM
Actually, I think the reference to the ROF was in how the reloading animation messes up spellcasting. It's noticeably worse with a crossbow than a longbow ;)

Yes. Its a real pain if you are trying to heal and shoot. Unlike nuking and CC, heals don't usually get to be cast when you find it convenient.

spifflove
09-18-2009, 05:49 PM
Yes. Its a real pain if you are trying to heal and shoot. Unlike nuking and CC, heals don't usually get to be cast when you find it convenient.

it is an issue, and healing and shooting will have to be a judgement call. To do the bow version you will have to choose between ips and the capstone you cant have both.