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Charlie2501
09-17-2009, 03:55 AM
Hello everyone

After a long hiatus from the game I now started playing again with DDO Unlimited. I really love the game but I have trouble figuring out which class/class combination to go. I've played a Ranger to lvl 4 now, following the Tempest Build in the Compendium. (http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Path:Tempest_%28Elf_Profile%29)
Now I'm having doubts though whether I made the right choice in class (and build).

I would be very grateful if you guys could point me in the right direction or give me some ideas based on a few things I don't want to miss:

- has to be an elf
- twf
- good damage
- good at soloing (I play strange hours) but also a boon to groups
- fun to play

Thanks in advance for your guidance.

VonBek
09-17-2009, 05:29 AM
Why do you express doubts?

I think you met your objectives with the linked build. Though, player skill has more to do with group perceptions than build.

Charlie2501
09-17-2009, 05:55 AM
I'm having trouble hitting things in hard/elite dungeons (when there's a tank and I can get behind the enemy it's better of course, but often you don't have a very good tank or no tank at all), and I can't take much of a beating in the heat of battle.

captain1z
09-17-2009, 06:59 AM
Elf Fighter, Ranger or rogue? why not all of the above?

Elf 1 rogue/2 fighter/17 ranger

starting stats (im not good with this part, can never figure out what 28 allows you, just get as close as you can)

str - 16 (+2rams, +6item, +1fighter,+1 tome +4levelup = 30 at 20th level)
dex 16 (+2elf, +3 ranger, +6 item = 27 at 20th) this leaves you room for a +3 tome in the future
con - 14 (+6item = 20 at 20th)
int - 12 (+1level up = 13 for combat ex as a defensive option)
wis - 10 (+6 item = 16 thats plenty believe it or not)
cha - 10 (+6 item = 16 which helps umd)

feats=(9) Dodge,Mobility,spring attack,toughness,improved crit:slashing,power attack,oversized 2 wpn,extend, CE

Enhancements - go the tempest line and dual wield scimitars for high crits, bonus to hit and damage

skills - balance 10, jump 4, search max, disable max, move silent 5, hide 5, open locks 10, UMD max (if u can), tumble 4

AC possibly

10 base
6 armor
5 natural
5 deflection
4 tempest
10 dex
5 CE (defense mode)
1 dodge feat
1 alchemical
-----------
47 with no gear (greensteel+4, DT+3 = 54 easily higher is likely with more grinding and buffs)

Hit pionts will be about 400-500 between 15th -20th


if u want ranger 18 instead just drop 1 fighter and 1 feat. You can buy +1 tomes in the DDO store for like 200 pts if u need to plug a stat hole. Just an Idea real quick off the top of my head. Strength based is better than dex based because you dont need weapon finesse and weapon options open up.

Rogue at level 1, fighter at 2, ranger 3-7, fighter 8, ranger 9-20

rogue 1 = use up skill pts, pick 1 feat
fighter 2 = pick another feat
ranger 3-7 = get to work on 2 weapon fighting. freefeat at 3,4 (x2), 6
fighter 8 = pick up improved crit slashing
ranger 9-20 = pick up manyshot + tempest here and run with it



Just a thought :) Back up rogue, back up heal scrolls (maybe), heavy hitter for sure.

VonBek
09-17-2009, 07:15 AM
You won't take much of a beating - that's for sure. :) That's not the point of the path your character is on. So, you need to not get beat on. Do you use a shield? The Bow & TWF feat lines that Rangers get tempt many players to forget their shield proficiency. As part of the melee package, it has a role. Frankly, a Ranger that knows when to use a shield shows a player that's growing accomplished using their character to it's best abilities.

Use the bow to soften the enemy before it reaches you. This can be used to eliminate a caster/archer, or to pull an individual to you, decreasing the mobs numerical advantage.
Use the shield to handle their initial attack.
Go to TWF to finish them off, IF you can see it's viable to do so. Or, use it to deal with select mobs (casters). Or, use it after another party member has drawn agro. If you get agro back, pop the shield back.

Your character will grow accomplished at TWF as it matures. At/about your current levels, that's a very situational technique. Once you hit level 6, and pick up the first tier of the Tempest enhancements, TWF gets more viable. Even at 12 and higher, you'll still need a shield. Not always, but you never really want to give it up.

Another detail that may help: Elves get an enhancement line that gives and advantage to hit, when using longswords, and rapiers. It starts it's first tier at level four.

Artis_Resistance
09-17-2009, 07:32 AM
For the record, when Captain1z posted: "ranger 3-7 = get to work on 2 weapon fighting. freefeat at 3,4 (x2), 6"; he is a bit misleading. You get Favored Enemies, and it is NOT a "free feat" although FE is considered a feat. Its an ability of Rangers, exclusively.

ivar415
09-17-2009, 07:37 AM
I´m a f2p newb, but I always loved the character building aspect of D&D the most. :)

Currently I´m taking the all of the above option too. Although I must respectfully dismiss captain1z´s build as it doesn´t allow the last Tempest III advancement.

Taking Rogue1 on lvl4 and then Fighter1 on 5 allows getting the toughness feat at the 3rd level and all the nice toughness advancements early. Helps life greatly in the beginning.

This is my current build plan. As far as I´m comfortable with right now.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Ivarion Dyar
Level 15 Chaotic Good Elf Male
(1 Fighter \ 1 Rogue \ 13 Ranger)
Hit Points: 217
Spell Points: 234
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 12
Reflex: 16
Will: 6

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 15)
Strength 15 16
Dexterity 17 22
Constitution 12 14
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 14 14
Charisma 8 8

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 15)
Balance 3 11
Bluff -1 -1
Concentration 4 13
Diplomacy -1 -1
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle -1 -1
Heal 5 5
Hide 7 21
Intimidate -1 -1
Jump 6 21
Listen 2 4
Move Silently 7 24
Open Lock n/a 7
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 -1
Search 0 2
Spot 3 17
Swim 2 5
Tumble n/a 7
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Heal (+3)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Bow Strength
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Elven Keen Senses
Feat: (Automatic) Enchantment Save Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Immunity to Sleep
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Feat: (Automatic) Wild Empathy
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage I


Level 2 (Ranger)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Swim (+2)
Feat: (Automatic) Rapid Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I


Level 3 (Ranger)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Spot (+3)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Diehard
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I


Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+5)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I


Level 5 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Mobility
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Tower Shield Proficiency
Enhancement: Fighter Armored Agility I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 6 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild I


Level 7 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant


Level 8 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: CON
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Manyshot
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II


Level 9 (Ranger)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+3)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Wild Empathy
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II


Level 10 (Ranger)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+3)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack II


Level 11 (Ranger)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Spot (+3)
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Attack I
Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild II


Level 12 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: CON
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 13 (Ranger)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Precise Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Precise Shot
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity III


Level 14 (Ranger)
Skill: Hide (+3)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest II
Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild III


Level 15 (Ranger)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Attack II



Please feel free to nitpick, as I´m currently a bit unhappy with it too. Somehow I have to fit energy resistances, to acid at least, in there. :D

VonBek
09-17-2009, 08:15 AM
Taking Rogue1 on lvl4 ... Please feel free to nitpick,

OK. Try Rogue at first Level. Rogues get a notable advantage in the number of points available to them at first level. You might like what it does for for jump/tumble/etc...

Also, maybe see what happens when you splash that one level of fighter at 2, or after 7.

Arianrhod
09-17-2009, 08:24 AM
Even with the right feats, the low Base Attack Bonus that all characters have until they get to higher level will make it hard to hit things on hard/elite settings if you're using 2 weapons. TWF gives extra attacks at the cost of a penalty to hit. At low levels when your BAB isn't that great yet, use a shield. You can still break out the weapon sets when things are easy to hit and you want to kill them fast, but when you're having trouble hitting (and getting hit hard), a shield is a better way to go at 5th level and lower.

Charlie2501
09-17-2009, 08:46 AM
Thank you all for the insight and advice.

I will try to adapt more by changing equipment then.

If you were to make an elf ranger going for Tempest, would you start with

str 16
dex 18
con 12
int 8
wis 10
cha 8

or take two points away from dex and put them in constitution?
(or something completely different...?)

I feel that right now the high dex (currently I have 21 with enhancements) does not give me that much benefit and I wonder if two more points in constitution might be more useful.

Artis_Resistance
09-17-2009, 09:17 AM
-2 Dex
+2 Int

You NEVER want to lose skill points.

Aalric
09-17-2009, 10:07 AM
If i want to use dragonmarks on such a build (displacement looks tempting), how many feats do i have to give up?

Also, how long does displacement as a dragonmark last?

finally, if i wanted to do something totaly diffeent and make a dwarven ranger, are there any nice dwarven axes out there (usually longswords are the most common weapon to be found)

thanks

ivar415
09-17-2009, 10:17 AM
OK. Try Rogue at first Level. Rogues get a notable advantage in the number of points available to them at first level. You might like what it does for for jump/tumble/etc...

Also, maybe see what happens when you splash that one level of fighter at 2, or after 7.
OH ****!
The amount of skillpoints I lost for not choosing Rogue1 at lvl1 is criminal, as is choosing intell8. :(

Oh well, guess I´ll reroll on another server and take the turbine points with me too :)

Arianrhod
09-17-2009, 10:49 AM
If i want to use dragonmarks on such a build (displacement looks tempting), how many feats do i have to give up?

Also, how long does displacement as a dragonmark last?

finally, if i wanted to do something totaly diffeent and make a dwarven ranger, are there any nice dwarven axes out there (usually longswords are the most common weapon to be found)

thanks

2 feats for displacement (and it's elf-only). It's quite short-duration, but the duration goes up as your caster level goes up, and you can take feats like Extend spell and enhancements like Extra dragonmark to get more use out of it.

ivar415
09-17-2009, 11:49 AM
finally, if i wanted to do something totaly diffeent and make a dwarven ranger, are there any nice dwarven axes out there (usually longswords are the most common weapon to be found)

thanks
Hmm, Dwarven Waraxe wielding Ranger Tempest, with a smattering of either fighter or cleric thrown in?

Intriguing.

captain1z
09-17-2009, 09:20 PM
For the record, when Captain1z posted: "ranger 3-7 = get to work on 2 weapon fighting. freefeat at 3,4 (x2), 6"; he is a bit misleading. You get Favored Enemies, and it is NOT a "free feat" although FE is considered a feat. Its an ability of Rangers, exclusively.

level 4 which is ranger 2 gets you 2 weapon fighting and rapid shot, not free as much as granted true. Maybe a poor choice of words, wasnt pointing out FE at all. I guess its not so much free because you spend xp and a level on it and you cant really choose what it is.


Hmm, Dwarven Waraxe wielding Ranger Tempest, with a smattering of either fighter or cleric thrown in?

Intriguing.

I have exactly that but pali levels not cleric. You get better saves and AC that way..... very little benefit to cleric in this case. Here is a look at mine, he could use better gear but he function well at high levels of play (the player makes stupid mistakes more often)

http://my.ddo.com/character/ghallanda/riplin/

SangRahl
09-17-2009, 10:55 PM
Personally, I'm going with an even split of all three (6Ftr/7Rng/7Rog). But then, I'm not exactly your run-of-the-mill player, either. I play for fun, a bit of challenge, and generally sneaking into places alone that most people consider to be preposterous, or even mildly suicidal.

It's all about how you want to play...

(I will admit, though... that dual-Waraxe Dwarf sounds pretty interesting... Kind of the anti-roguish rogue. I haven't done any research, but I wonder if you could mix Kensai with Tempest? The best defense being, of course, to not have any opponents alive long enough to have to defend against.)