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View Full Version : Whats The DPS From Highest to Lowest Class Wise in DDO?



darklunar374
09-13-2009, 04:10 PM
So my question is what are the the classes with the best to worse DPS in ddo? No need of Technicalities

Example listing would be...

Sorc
Barbarian
Wizard
etc..

Just wondering. Also Pure Builds here none of that well if you mix this class with that class you will get better xxx. Just plain and simple best DPS class to Worst DPS class in DDO.

I am curious to see what out DPS's each in the mid to lower levels. Like do Clerics out DPS Paladins or Do Bards out DPS Paladins? Thanks

valorik
09-13-2009, 04:17 PM
complicated question, only answer is that there is no real answer.

Visty
09-13-2009, 04:19 PM
worst dps might be the halfling wizard with max wis and max cha
str 6 and cant cast spells
doubt it gets worse

best dps...cant answer that
better try to find a char which suits you and dont aim for highest dps.
ddo is not wow, here even the 4th worst dps can survive

even my ''bard'' which has about 200 dps (half of what is max possible if not even less) still holds his own

Draslin
09-13-2009, 04:23 PM
I would like to add, DPS doesn't really apply in Dungeons and Dragon's proper. DDO to a lesser extent. You might be able to talk about potential DPS in a given situation. There are way too many variables to reliably and consistently predict the answer.

DasLurch
09-13-2009, 04:23 PM
This is a bit of a strange question because casters are not usually included in this discussion for DPS here. As far as the Melee Classes go, most people think like this...

1- Barbarians - Generally speaking these are your big DPS characters
2- Rangers- They can chip in with great amounts of damage in a small amount of time against certain foes and less against others. It really depends on how you build them.
3- Fighters- This is the class used as a general "measuring stick" for melee combat.
4- Paladins- they can be devastating at the higher levels, but take some time to progress.
5- Rogues -While not always true, they are usually at the back of the bus.

The thing about your question is that depending on how you build your character, which paths you may take, and what level they are, the standing can definitely change. Especially if you get into multi-classing. That said this is your general melee list.

For casters, Bards are by far the weakest in the DPS area. They do not really carry damge spells, and most of the time they are actually in hand-hand combat. Clerics are more of a sopport class with some nice insta kill ability. They do have one of the nicest DPS spells in the game (blade barrier). Wizards are more of a crowd control class at times than raw power, because of their somewhat limited spell points. Sorcerers are kings of the casters when it comes to dishing out the pain. They also have a geat vaariety of insta kill spells like a wizard as well. As for favored souls, I'd put them in league with wizards, but I admit I do not have a great deal of expierience with them yet.

But like many of the other posters here, there really is no answer because they continually change the game with enhancements, new feats, new spells, and new weapons. It is an ever changing thing in our game.

maddmatt70
09-13-2009, 04:28 PM
This is a bit of a strange question because casters are not usually included in this discussion for DPS here. As far as the Melee Classes go, most people think like this...

1- Barbarians - Generally speaking these are your big DPS characters
2- Rangers- They can chip in with great amounts of damage in a small amount of time agains certain foes and less against others. It really depends on how you build them.
3- Fighters- This is the class used as a general "measuring stick" for melee combat.
4- Paladins- they can be devastating at the higher levels, but take some time to progress.
5- Rogues -While not always true, they are usually at the back of the bus.


Sorry but I disagree what has really changed this mod is the dps for the melee classes is alot more close together. Fighters and Paladins got the biggest dps jumps so the top is alot more blurry and a rogue in todays ddo has devasting dps potential. You need to update your data to mod 9.

Korvek
09-13-2009, 04:29 PM
1- Barbarians - Generally speaking these are your big DPS characters
2- Rangers- They can chip in with great amounts of damage in a small amount of time agains certain foes and less against others. It really depends on how you build them.
3- Fighters- This is the class used as a general "measuring stick" for melee combat.
4- Paladins- they can be devastating at the higher levels, but take some time to progress.
5- Rogues -While not always true, they are usually at the back of the bus.

Rogues will tend to out-DPS a similarly equipped and played class against most enemies. However, rogues also suffer most from fortification. On a side note, Rogues are by far the most multi-class friendly at the moment.

As for the rest of the classes, people will argue forever about who has the highest DPS among them, so very little point to try to classify them.

Monkey_Archer
09-13-2009, 04:30 PM
There is no "highest dps" class in DDO... neither is there a highest dps multiclass.

Also, the highest dps at endgame is different from highest dps at low-mid levels.

If you are looking for guaranteed dps (high dps against all targets) then barbarians and fighters are good choices.
Rogues can usually out dps fighters and barbarians while sneak attacking, but this is unreliable and situational.
Rangers can do high dps against favored enemies, and Paladins have high dps against evil creatures.
Monks tend to have lower dps then the above melee classes.

Casters, clerics and bards in DDO are usually not considered dps.

Bilger
09-13-2009, 04:31 PM
5- Rogues -While not always true, they are usually at the back of the bus.

Have to disagree here Rogues are one of the highest dps classes in game with backstabs and such. My strength based assassin rogue has out dpsed some of the best barbarians stealing aggro from them continually. Diplomacy is your friend!!:D

Sweyn
09-13-2009, 04:31 PM
Best is TWF rangers dual weilding khopeshes against FE
worst is proly monk

(For melee)

Quikster
09-13-2009, 04:31 PM
This is a bit of a strange question because casters are not usually included in this discussion for DPS here. As far as the Melee Classes go, most people think like this...

1- Barbarians - Generally speaking these are your big DPS characters
2- Rangers- They can chip in with great amounts of damage in a small amount of time against certain foes and less against others. It really depends on how you build them.
3- Fighters- This is the class used as a general "measuring stick" for melee combat.
4- Paladins- they can be devastating at the higher levels, but take some time to progress.
5- Rogues -While not always true, they are usually at the back of the bus.





lol thats pretty funny :)

DasLurch
09-13-2009, 05:08 PM
Have to disagree here Rogues are one of the highest dps classes in game with backstabs and such. My strength based assassin rogue has out dpsed some of the best barbarians stealing aggro from them continually. Diplomacy is your friend!!:D

I can't believe I'm getting drawn into this....

1st off, "while not always true", meant exactly that. A well built and equipped rogue can out dps many classes and build. CAN. You all have partied with a rogue before that can't out melee dps a 8 str caster as well. That same well built and well equipped rogue will still under most circumstances be out dps'd by a moderately built and equipped barbarian. It's just the way the game is built.

2nd, Generally speaking again, a rogue does the LEAST amount of damage in the game. This is for many reasons. Chief amunst them would be because about 1/2 of the mobs in the game past level 10 are undead, elemental and constructs. Rogues get no backstab on those. Rogues also LOSE their backstab damage when they have aggro. That counts against their DPS too. They can dish out some hurt, but in order for them to excell at this, they need someone else to pass off all the aggro. They also can not start off a fight and maintain aggro. If a mob is fixed on targeting them, they also lose their backstab bonus.

3rd, gaining the ability to deal 8d6 backstab damage does not mean it is ALWAYS going to be 48 damage. Most often it will fall in the 23-33 range. That's just simple statistics. A high str character can make up that difference pretty easily.

Rogues are an excellent class, but they have more weaknesses to overcome than any other melee class out there. (with the possible exception of monks.) They do not excell at straight out dps. They hit hard, yes, but cannot usually sustain that. I really don't see what is so wrong or incorrect with anything I said. A high DPS rogue is the EXCEPTION. It has been since launch, and will continue to be for a long time it seems.

Junts
09-13-2009, 05:12 PM
classes reflect party roles a lot less than they do in other games; you can make a heavy dps paladin or rogue or fighter or barbarian or even cleric .. or you could make one that is almost entirely support.

DPS is more a question of feat, stat and enhancement selection than class selection.

darklunar374
09-13-2009, 05:14 PM
Thanks for the information. I know some classes are just focused on Aiding the Party either with heals, CC, or buffs/debuffs. I am not a WoW player I have played almost all other big name MMOs on the market in the past 12 years or so. Never liked WoW no matter how hard I tried to like it. WoW had no epic feeling to me but hey that was my opinion and I am not trying to WoW bash here.

I am loving DDO and wish I would have taken the plunge into the game at launch. Just trusted some reviews that I shouldn't have, but times to late for that all I can do is play now.

I was trying to get the DPS information just so I kinda knew where some of the other classes stood on the DPS scales. Like Bard isn't what I would call a DPS character I would call it a Support/Utility character. I can see where you guys are heading though as I know classes can be built specifically for each thing. I would see it hard to call a comparison by people you group with. Like the rogue said pulling Hate off the Fighter...Well is the Fighters build messed up or is he focusing on a different type of mob? I am not saying the rogue can't pull higher dps though because I don't know the game honestly.

So I am curious Sorc out dps everyone probably? Also do Bards out DPS Clerics? A wonder of questions lol.

DasLurch
09-13-2009, 05:16 PM
Sorry but I disagree what has really changed this mod is the dps for the melee classes is alot more close together. Fighters and Paladins got the biggest dps jumps so the top is alot more blurry and a rogue in todays ddo has devasting dps potential. You need to update your data to mod 9.

This is true Norg, but I was talking in a very general way. The difference between the top 4 is very close in some cases. A str based tempest ranger can keep up with anyone. A full on Kensai fighter is absolutely devastating. Paladins can hit for the single most damage in a single attack in the game with all of the changes to their smites. It's true. Rogues still GENERALLY lag behind all of these. Many times you will see a rogue really dish out the hurt, and then turn around and hit for nothing on the next mob. It doesn't mean that someone can't build a nice DPS ______, and it also doesn't mean that Barbs are the best out there. Every class has moments whewre they can excell. Some of those classes have those moments far more often though.

BTW, it's good to see you posting. Now get in there and get ur loots! I need someone to help carry me through some of the new quests :)

SableShadow
09-13-2009, 05:16 PM
classes reflect party roles a lot less than they do in other games; you can make a heavy dps paladin or rogue or fighter or barbarian or even cleric .. or you could make one that is almost entirely support.

DPS is more a question of feat, stat and enhancement selection than class selection.

This.


Thanks for the information. I know some classes are just focused on Aiding the Party either with heals, CC, or buffs/debuffs. I am not a WoW player I have played almost all other big name MMOs on the market in the past 12 years or so. Never liked WoW no matter how hard I tried to like it. WoW had no epic feeling to me but hey that was my opinion and I am not trying to WoW bash here.

I am loving DDO and wish I would have taken the plunge into the game at launch. Just trusted some reviews that I shouldn't have, but times to late for that all I can do is play now.

I was trying to get the DPS information just so I kinda knew where some of the other classes stood on the DPS scales. Like Bard isn't what I would call a DPS character I would call it a Support/Utility character. I can see where you guys are heading though as I know classes can be built specifically for each thing. I would see it hard to call a comparison by people you group with. Like the rogue said pulling Hate off the Fighter...Well is the Fighters build messed up or is he focusing on a different type of mob? I am not saying the rogue can't pull higher dps though because I don't know the game honestly.

So I am curious Sorc out dps everyone probably? Also do Bards out DPS Clerics? A wonder of questions lol.

You need to be asking about builds, not classes.

Vivanto
09-13-2009, 05:23 PM
2nd, Generally speaking again, a rogue does the LEAST amount of damage in the game. This is for many reasons. Chief amunst them would be because about 1/2 of the mobs in the game past level 10 are undead, elemental and constructs. Rogues get no backstab on those. Rogues also LOSE their backstab damage when they have aggro. That counts against their DPS too. They can dish out some hurt, but in order for them to excell at this, they need someone else to pass off all the aggro. They also can not start off a fight and maintain aggro. If a mob is fixed on targeting them, they also lose their backstab bonus.
Yeah, and that zomg barb will loose all the crit damage, so will the kensai. Actually for undead, construct and other 100% fort mobs monk is one of the strongest class, who would've figured that...
It is a common misconception - which you've fallen into too - that SA is the only damage a rogue has, it's false. On 100% fortification mobs they don't lose dps, they just don't gain a bonus to it.


3rd, gaining the ability to deal 8d6 backstab damage does not mean it is ALWAYS going to be 48 damage. Most often it will fall in the 23-33 range. That's just simple statistics. A high str character can make up that difference pretty easily.
Then you don't know squat about statistics. That 8d6+20 (now 10d6+20) is, statistically 48 / 55 points of damage every hit. Yes, you will do sometimes as low as 30ish damage (lol 23, that low is not even possible), but will also just as often hit for 70+, that's just from SA. All the while you can still easily deal a 30ish non-crit base damage totaling up to 70-80 points of non-crit damage each hit on a dex build, what other str melee can deal that with a 1-hander? :rolleyes:


Rogues are an excellent class, but they have more weaknesses to overcome than any other melee class out there. (with the possible exception of monks.) They do not excell at straight out dps. They hit hard, yes, but cannot usually sustain that. I really don't see what is so wrong or incorrect with anything I said. A high DPS rogue is the EXCEPTION. It has been since launch, and will continue to be for a long time it seems.
The only weakness they have to overcome is poor player skill and the general misconception about rogues.

Bilger
09-13-2009, 05:28 PM
I can't believe I'm getting drawn into this....

1st off, "while not always true", meant exactly that. A well built and equipped rogue can out dps many classes and build. CAN. You all have partied with a rogue before that can't out melee dps a 8 str caster as well. That same well built and well equipped rogue will still under most circumstances be out dps'd by a moderately built and equipped barbarian. It's just the way the game is built.

2nd, Generally speaking again, a rogue does the LEAST amount of damage in the game. This is for many reasons. Chief amunst them would be because about 1/2 of the mobs in the game past level 10 are undead, elemental and constructs. Rogues get no backstab on those. Rogues also LOSE their backstab damage when they have aggro. That counts against their DPS too. They can dish out some hurt, but in order for them to excell at this, they need someone else to pass off all the aggro. They also can not start off a fight and maintain aggro. If a mob is fixed on targeting them, they also lose their backstab bonus.

3rd, gaining the ability to deal 8d6 backstab damage does not mean it is ALWAYS going to be 48 damage. Most often it will fall in the 23-33 range. That's just simple statistics. A high str character can make up that difference pretty easily.

Rogues are an excellent class, but they have more weaknesses to overcome than any other melee class out there. (with the possible exception of monks.) They do not excell at straight out dps. They hit hard, yes, but cannot usually sustain that. I really don't see what is so wrong or incorrect with anything I said. A high DPS rogue is the EXCEPTION. It has been since launch, and will continue to be for a long time it seems.

Nobody is drawing ya into anything. I can disagree with your assessment all I want.

That being said you make valid points witch you are right on most but with a well built and played rogue you can be the highest dps in group and keep backstabs up all day.

Undead are on acception even then though with right player and gear can be very effective. I grab and have to continually hit diplo on SOS boss throughout end fight and these are 1 mephit dps groups so possible for rogues to be higher dps.

You are wrong in stating they do the lowest dps in game. I hit 160-180 on crits b4 backstabs and 40+ on regular swings b4 backstabs that isn't low dps? BTW this rogue is a heavy pick user with no GS weaps yet if want to see what she has name is Jasaria look up on my DDO!! :)

If ya want to go by what op asked we should refer him to the dps charts and he can see for himself rogues rank at top.

It is all about the build and who plays it so making a list like you did is invalid. Different builds do different things and certain builds can out dps other builds. IMO there is no top DPS out there it is person and build not class.

Noctus
09-13-2009, 05:36 PM
There is no answer to your question, OP.
A better question would have been: "Which is the highest DPS build?"


Casters are not DPS in DDO.

Junts
09-13-2009, 05:45 PM
There is no answer to your question, OP.
A better question would have been: "Which is the highest DPS build?"


Casters are not DPS in DDO.

Thats only true in endgame raiding; casters are the best dps in ddo between levels 8 and 16, and properly specced ones are more than capable of dpsing even through endgame quests on normal or, in small groups, hard.

Quikster
09-13-2009, 05:46 PM
I can't believe I'm getting drawn into this....

1st off, "while not always true", meant exactly that. A well built and equipped rogue can out dps many classes and build. CAN. You all have partied with a rogue before that can't out melee dps a 8 str caster as well. That same well built and well equipped rogue will still under most circumstances be out dps'd by a moderately built and equipped barbarian. It's just the way the game is built.

2nd, Generally speaking again, a rogue does the LEAST amount of damage in the game. This is for many reasons. Chief amunst them would be because about 1/2 of the mobs in the game past level 10 are undead, elemental and constructs. Rogues get no backstab on those. Rogues also LOSE their backstab damage when they have aggro. That counts against their DPS too. They can dish out some hurt, but in order for them to excell at this, they need someone else to pass off all the aggro. They also can not start off a fight and maintain aggro. If a mob is fixed on targeting them, they also lose their backstab bonus.

3rd, gaining the ability to deal 8d6 backstab damage does not mean it is ALWAYS going to be 48 damage. Most often it will fall in the 23-33 range. That's just simple statistics. A high str character can make up that difference pretty easily.

Rogues are an excellent class, but they have more weaknesses to overcome than any other melee class out there. (with the possible exception of monks.) They do not excell at straight out dps. They hit hard, yes, but cannot usually sustain that. I really don't see what is so wrong or incorrect with anything I said. A high DPS rogue is the EXCEPTION. It has been since launch, and will continue to be for a long time it seems.

How is it possible you have a lvl 18 rog and think that most SA damage falls into the 22-33 range? A Rogue built/played correctly will out dps anything. Period.

Not sure what game you play but 1/2 the mobs I deal with past level 10 are not undead or constructs. There are also these little weapons that can deal with those in short order. The real need for dps comes in vs raid bosses. Thats where you really see a difference between a big dps build and a wet noodle. Besides the 2 bosses which raids have undead and constructs as half the mobs or better, or as the main boss?

foxx
09-13-2009, 06:05 PM
[QUOTE=darklunar374;2408923]So my question is what are the the classes with the best to worse DPS in ddo? No need of Technicalities

Example listing would be...

Sorc
Barbarian
Wizard
etc..




ok you do know what dps stands for <right>?

thats a melee term for Damage Per Swing.

so you can wipe caaster outa that mix unless yer looking at gimp builds, wihich includes the all mighty wanna be tank cleric.

Vivanto
09-13-2009, 06:08 PM
ok you do know what dps stands for <right>?

thats a melee term for Damage Per Swing.

Can't answer for the op, but I sure do know that you don't know what dps stands for. It is generally accepted for damage per second...

foxx
09-13-2009, 06:11 PM
[QUOTE=Quikster;2409119]How is it possible you have a lvl 18 rog and think that most SA damage falls into the 22-33 range? A Rogue built/played correctly will out dps anything. Period.



well my monster rogue will out dps yer pure rogue,
and as the forums will prove, tempest is max dps.
don't argue it, just look it up.

foxx
09-13-2009, 06:14 PM
Can't answer for the op, but I sure do know that you don't know what dps stands for. It is generally accepted for damage per second...



since when, in the begining i assure you, here in ddo, it was origianly meant to per swing.

old school pnp there were no seconds , only rounds. and swings or attacks per round,

Vivanto
09-13-2009, 06:41 PM
since when, in the begining i assure you, here in ddo, it was origianly meant to per swing.
Ever since people realized that swings aren't an accurate measure in a real time combat environment
old school pnp there were no seconds , only rounds. and swings or attacks per round,
PnP is totally irrelevant for DDO combat.

Angelus_dead
09-13-2009, 06:45 PM
So my question is what are the the classes with the best to worse DPS in ddo? No need of Technicalities
Can a shark beat a tiger?

enochiancub
09-13-2009, 08:34 PM
Easiest answer to this question.

It depends on how you build your character and your playstyle.

Freeman
09-13-2009, 08:45 PM
Can a shark beat a tiger?

Depends on who has the home field advantage ;) Either way, I'd pay money to see that fight. I have heard of tigers killing bears though...

cm2_supernova
09-13-2009, 08:56 PM
ok you do know what dps stands for <right>?

thats a melee term for Damage Per Swing.

so you can wipe caaster outa that mix unless yer looking at gimp builds, wihich includes the all mighty wanna be tank cleric.






well my monster rogue will out dps yer pure rogue,
and as the forums will prove, tempest is max dps.
don't argue it, just look it up.

Did you eat a lot of paint chips as a kid or something?

eyepuppy
09-13-2009, 09:00 PM
Thats only true in endgame raiding; casters are the best dps in ddo between levels 8 and 16, and properly specced ones are more than capable of dpsing even through endgame quests on normal or, in small groups, hard.

I disagree and agree. Casters can have the best DPS, but it's mostly when fighting large groups of enemies. Single target DPS has to go to fighters (unless you blow all your mana on one mob to kill him, but then your DPS goes down because you can't kill the next mob).

I don't think this game is about best DPS, or worst DPS. It's about how you play. I've seen players on Ghallanda making the Monster build (which is up in the higher DPS bracket), but can't play them for **** and die all the time.

eyepuppy
09-13-2009, 09:02 PM
ok you do know what dps stands for <right>?

thats a melee term for Damage Per Swing.

so you can wipe caaster outa that mix unless yer looking at gimp builds, wihich includes the all mighty wanna be tank cleric.

So I was wrong all these years... I thought DPS meant Damage per SECOND. Darn, what a world!

Junts
09-13-2009, 09:04 PM
I disagree and agree. Casters can have the best DPS, but it's mostly when fighting large groups of enemies. Single target DPS has to go to fighters (unless you blow all your mana on one mob to kill him, but then your DPS goes down because you can't kill the next mob).

I don't think this game is about best DPS, or worst DPS. It's about how you play. I've seen players on Ghallanda making the Monster build (which is up in the higher DPS bracket), but can't play them for **** and die all the time.

yes and no; with the hp scaling, if you're in anything shorter than a full group, its relatively inexpensive to kill a mob with direct dps - in fact, sometimes it is cheaper than kiling it with an energy drain + finger combo.

with the ready availability of shrines in all the quests (except possibly new invasion), and massively scaled down mob hit points, dpsing through mobs as a caster is quite viable, though not usually the best technique if you have a remotely competent group of melees.

on the other hand, it didnt work at all in the past, and it will work just fine now, if you're properly set up to do it.

BlackSteel
09-13-2009, 09:07 PM
saw this post this morning before anyone responding and said to myself ' i'm staying way the **** away from that'

foxx
09-13-2009, 11:17 PM
so the numbers have been re crunched and there is proof of a higher dps,
not having tempest in the build?

cm2_supernova
09-13-2009, 11:21 PM
so the numbers have been re crunched and there is proof of a higher dps,
not having tempest in the build?

Did you live under power lines as a kid or something?

ArkoHighStar
09-13-2009, 11:27 PM
Thats only true in endgame raiding; casters are the best dps in ddo between levels 8 and 16, and properly specced ones are more than capable of dpsing even through endgame quests on normal or, in small groups, hard.

While this is true the dps ability of a caster is totally limited by spell points, once gone their dps is totally gone. Melees however have unlimted damage potential why is why it is much easier to do average damage calculation for melee/ranged attacks. As to the highest dps, well as many have said, the answer lies more in the build and the situation than simply the class

Roman
09-13-2009, 11:29 PM
Highest DPS melee class is the one that isnt dead or laying on the ground greater commanded.

cm2_supernova
09-13-2009, 11:37 PM
As to the highest dps, well as many have said, the answer lies more in the build and the situation than simply the class

That is the real ticket...aslo for some reason some people assume that raw DPS is the end all be all of end game content.

Mazeratti
09-14-2009, 12:11 AM
[QUOTE=darklunar374;2408923]So my question is what are the the classes with the best to worse DPS in ddo? No need of Technicalities

Example listing would be...

Sorc
Barbarian
Wizard
etc..




ok you do know what dps stands for <right>?

thats a melee term for Damage Per Swing.

so you can wipe caaster outa that mix unless yer looking at gimp builds, wihich includes the all mighty wanna be tank cleric.

LOL

I thought it was Damage Per Second :o thanks for putting that in there, coz I was confused as why you would not include casters... and now I know.

and I used to think BIO was Back In One :o glad someone set me straight on that too LOL

Aranticus
09-14-2009, 03:11 AM
How is it possible you have a lvl 18 rog and think that most SA damage falls into the 22-33 range? A Rogue built/played correctly will out dps anything. Period.

Not sure what game you play but 1/2 the mobs I deal with past level 10 are not undead or constructs. There are also these little weapons that can deal with those in short order. The real need for dps comes in vs raid bosses. Thats where you really see a difference between a big dps build and a wet noodle. Besides the 2 bosses which raids have undead and constructs as half the mobs or better, or as the main boss?

i found it pretty strange too. a regular L16 rog will get 8d6 = 8-48 or ~28 SA damage. all properly built rogues will also max out the SA training which increases it by 12 more for an average of 40 SA. halflings can increase it by 8 more for 48. if any rogue has just a 22-23 SA, a respec is needed ASAP

foxx
09-14-2009, 01:04 PM
Did you live under power lines as a kid or something?


so step off the shortbuss and say something relevent.
or did the remdeail classes overwhelm you for alltime.

Noctus
09-14-2009, 02:33 PM
DPS = damage per second

When people in DDO talk about DPS they mean sustainable damage over time, or in other words: melee.

Casters can have very high burst of damage, but if they keep bursting every mob, they run out of Spellpoints very quickly, lowering their damage contribution to almost nothing. That´s nukeing, not DPSing.
A Nuker´s role is taking out especially dangerous enemies quickly with a damage burst or insta-death spell, before these can cause greater harm.

7-day_Trial_Monkey
09-14-2009, 07:10 PM
Thanks for the information. I know some classes are just focused on Aiding the Party either with heals, CC, or buffs/debuffs. I am not a WoW player I have played almost all other big name MMOs on the market in the past 12 years or so. Never liked WoW no matter how hard I tried to like it. WoW had no epic feeling to me but hey that was my opinion and I am not trying to WoW bash here.

I am loving DDO and wish I would have taken the plunge into the game at launch. Just trusted some reviews that I shouldn't have, but times to late for that all I can do is play now.

I was trying to get the DPS information just so I kinda knew where some of the other classes stood on the DPS scales. Like Bard isn't what I would call a DPS character I would call it a Support/Utility character. I can see where you guys are heading though as I know classes can be built specifically for each thing. I would see it hard to call a comparison by people you group with. Like the rogue said pulling Hate off the Fighter...Well is the Fighters build messed up or is he focusing on a different type of mob? I am not saying the rogue can't pull higher dps though because I don't know the game honestly.

So I am curious Sorc out dps everyone probably? Also do Bards out DPS Clerics? A wonder of questions lol.

The correct answer to your question is: depends on the build and depends on the equipment.

All classes can be made high dps. All classes can be made low dps.

Choosing your class does not lock you in.

Mazeratti
09-15-2009, 12:54 AM
saw this post this morning before anyone responding and said to myself ' i'm staying way the **** away from that'

LOL

Yet....

here you are :p :)

Well I thought I was confused, but then I thought I had that fixed, but I came back and now Im confused again....

DPS, DPS my kingdom for the correct understanding about DPS

now

per swing, or not per swing, this is now the question (

or do I really care so long a stuff dies, quickly :D ) hmmm?

Still twould be nice to knoweth the answer that now plagueth my simple mind.

cm2_supernova
09-15-2009, 01:14 AM
shortbuss

remdeail

alltime.

tee hee :)

cm2_supernova
09-15-2009, 01:19 AM
per swing, or not per swing, this is now the question


Question:

When is 10 damage per swing more than 15 damage per swing?

Answer that and you'll know why DPS is measured in damage per second not damage per swing

FluffyCalico
09-15-2009, 01:26 AM
First I would say its probably not a pure class.

Second if you insist on pure classes the barb and fighter both benifit alot from being pure due to the capstones.

If you allow mutts its probably going to be something with either 6,7,12, or 18 levels of ranger in it, and some rogue, and maybe a 3rd class.

Quikster
09-15-2009, 01:34 AM
well my monster rogue will out dps yer pure rogue,
and as the forums will prove, tempest is max dps.
don't argue it, just look it up.

Uhhh I dont have a pure rog, take your mine is bigger than yours and go away. In the game we play here in 2009, DPS means Damage Per Second, and if you think otherwise youre a walking contradiction.

Tempest is not max dps. Tempest is 10% faster. It may translate into more dps it may not. All things being equal it obviously will, but in the world I live in, things are rarely equal.

BTW you need to end those quotes if you want them to look a little cleaner :)

SquelchHU
09-15-2009, 07:47 AM
How is it possible you have a lvl 18 rog and think that most SA damage falls into the 22-33 range? A Rogue built/played correctly will out dps anything. Period.

His original argument was something to the effect of 'Just because you have 8d6 sneak attack doesn't mean you'll do 48 damage a hit with it, most hits will fall into the 23-33 range'. And this is entirely true. 8d6 averages 28. 23-33 is a range of 5 from that average. But it doesn't take into consideration anything that adds to sneak attack damage or the base damage of your attacks. I don't think he meant it to, he was simply saying results tend towards the average.

Quikster
09-15-2009, 10:00 AM
His original argument was something to the effect of 'Just because you have 8d6 sneak attack doesn't mean you'll do 48 damage a hit with it, most hits will fall into the 23-33 range'. And this is entirely true. 8d6 averages 28. 23-33 is a range of 5 from that average. But it doesn't take into consideration anything that adds to sneak attack damage or the base damage of your attacks. I don't think he meant it to, he was simply saying results tend towards the average.

I dont disagre with the numbers. I dsagree with the fact that most rogs sneak attack comes in at 24 damage. I cant believe many peeps would build a rog and not add the sa enhancements. which would mean the average would be in the 36 range. So even if they hit for a mediocre amount of say 20 on a swing, they are still doing 56 damage per swing. If they are a str build, they might be hitting for as much as 35 or more a swing. Then they ate dishing out 70 damage per swing. There arent many twf builds doing that much damage.

Mumu720
02-02-2010, 10:20 AM
Best is TWF rangers dual weilding khopeshes against FE
worst is proly monk

(For melee)

Where are you getting that, with burst rings and 2d10 base damge and wind stance giving you a perminant haste that is not the case. They may not be the highest but they arent the worst.

blitzschlag
02-02-2010, 10:25 AM
Where are you getting that, with burst rings and 2d10 base damge and wind stance giving you a perminant haste that is not the case. They may not be the highest but they arent the worst.

well, as this nonsense is more than 4 months dead you should have left it to rott or read the whole post and see that he got his buttering already :)

Kralgnax
02-02-2010, 03:39 PM
worst dps might be the halfling wizard with max wis and max cha
str 6 and cant cast spells
doubt it gets worse

*SNIP*
I dunno, how about a halfling cleric 8 / wiz 6 / sorc 6 with 6/20/18/8/9/9 stats - don't take weapon finesse & dual wield w/out TWF. I think that would give your guy a run on the gimp-o-meter ;)

Hadrian
02-02-2010, 03:48 PM
Where are you getting that, with burst rings and 2d10 base damge and wind stance giving you a perminant haste that is not the case. They may not be the highest but they arent the worst.

He's talking about certain splash builds that had 6 ranger for tempest 1 back before mod 9 came out. His comments are from when mod 9 was just released.


Can a shark beat a tiger?

Well, I have heard of a tiger shark, but not a shark tiger. Given that if you can't beat 'em, you join 'em, I think that means that tigers win. I know it's an old post that I quoted here, but I couldn't resist.

Emili
02-02-2010, 04:03 PM
MAX DPS = Lag monster... with it's spikes of death I've seen entire parties anilated by it in a blink of a second or two.

Varr
02-02-2010, 04:12 PM
Today is the unoffical day of the Necro apparently! Want to win a debate? Argue a topic from yester year!!! Wonder what thread next will rise from the dead!!!

Andron
02-02-2010, 04:56 PM
Frustrating thread to read here... The OP asked a simple question. No need for comments dealing with "well under *** situation and with *** build class a will out DPS class b." Maybe if someone rephrased the question it could be answered with a short list instead of philosophising about the diversity inherent in DDO? How about this one:

Assuming a certain classes highest DPS build, how would you rank the different classes on a test target with unlimited HP and no special damage resistance?

Sure, every class has a DPS build, Sure, player skill matters, Sure, classes have a great amount of diversity. None of those perfectly valid points answer the OP's question. Just rank the classes using their best DPS build in their best case scenario and leave the nuance to follow-up posts.

Zanuzi
02-02-2010, 05:16 PM
Did you live under power lines as a kid or something?

+1 rep made me laugh

Shassa
02-02-2010, 05:29 PM
Dang it... didn't realize it was Pale Master'd until I saw Aranticus's post.

sly_1
02-02-2010, 09:38 PM
imo a better question to ask is, what is the best 6 man or 12 man dps. When you stop thinking about what your 1 character can do and realize you normally are part of a group, then it doesn't matter what the best dps is anymore. It's more important to ask how you can best contribute to the group.

Many groups value and are best served by large dps, but what raid group will succeed without a couple decent healers? Some raids/quests are insanely hard without a well built and geared and played caster who doesn't necessarily dps but rather nukes. The overwhelming majority of the quests and raids in the game are made dramatically easier with a bard in the group, yet that bard single handedly is usually lower down on the individual dps list.

So all these other classes that don't contribute "dps" in the conventional sense of the term (sustainable damage per second without need for rest sp's) are often required for the quest/raid to be completed.

Also, dead characters have a dps of 0, so things like evasion, decent saves, good # of hp's etc are often just as important if not moreso than dps.

ayspam
02-02-2010, 09:48 PM
This is a bit of a strange question because casters are not usually included in this discussion for DPS here. As far as the Melee Classes go, most people think like this...

1- Barbarians - Generally speaking these are your big DPS characters
2- Rangers- They can chip in with great amounts of damage in a small amount of time against certain foes and less against others. It really depends on how you build them.
3- Fighters- This is the class used as a general "measuring stick" for melee combat.
4- Paladins- they can be devastating at the higher levels, but take some time to progress.
5- Rogues -While not always true, they are usually at the back of the bus.

The thing about your question is that depending on how you build your character, which paths you may take, and what level they are, the standing can definitely change. Especially if you get into multi-classing. That said this is your general melee list.

For casters, Bards are by far the weakest in the DPS area. They do not really carry damge spells, and most of the time they are actually in hand-hand combat. Clerics are more of a sopport class with some nice insta kill ability. They do have one of the nicest DPS spells in the game (blade barrier). Wizards are more of a crowd control class at times than raw power, because of their somewhat limited spell points. Sorcerers are kings of the casters when it comes to dishing out the pain. They also have a geat vaariety of insta kill spells like a wizard as well. As for favored souls, I'd put them in league with wizards, but I admit I do not have a great deal of expierience with them yet.

But like many of the other posters here, there really is no answer because they continually change the game with enhancements, new feats, new spells, and new weapons. It is an ever changing thing in our game.

You Sir, are very wrong by putting FvS in league with wizards... Fvs can be clearly put in league with sorcs if not over. This opinion is coming from some1 who played sorcs since 4 years as mains.

Yours truly
Ay

PopeJual
02-03-2010, 12:42 AM
Best DPS against most opponents for more than a few levels: anyone carrying a Paralyzer weapon.


The way I think of DPS is not damage per second, but rather damage per returned attack. If I can do 100 damage to opponents in 5 seconds, that's 20 damage per second. That's straightforward. But the reason why we usually care about DPS is that our enemies are also doing damage per second to the party. I can improve my effective DPS by slowing down their DPS instead of focusing on just increasing mine.

If I do 100 DPS and everyone else in the party is doing 50 DPS, I look impressive. Imagine instead if I do 50 DPS and I halve the rate at which the party takes damage. If I do that, I effectively double EVERYONE'S DPS in the entire party. That sounds better than just doubling mine. :)

Will Paralyzer weapons generally halve the rate at which the party takes damage? For at least several levels, they absolutely will.

PopeJual
02-03-2010, 12:47 AM
Sure, every class has a DPS build, Sure, player skill matters, Sure, classes have a great amount of diversity. None of those perfectly valid points answer the OP's question. Just rank the classes using their best DPS build in their best case scenario and leave the nuance to follow-up posts.

Unfortunately, using best case scenarios gives a false impression of DPS. Paladins have absolutely insane DPS against Demons when they're set up for it. I'll be honest, though: the idea of facing constructs gives me fits because I lose my absolutely amazing critical hits and I lose all that tasty extra +LOTSd6 damage since the constructs aren't evil.

Which is the best DPS class? That general question really can't be answered. The best you can hope for is to tell someone what each class does best.

After all, if a Cleric Turns 200 HP worth of undead with a single press of a hotkey, that sounds like pretty good DPS to me and it didn't even cost any spell points.

uhgungawa
02-03-2010, 12:58 AM
I always thought the highest DPS was a Dex based Frenzied Berzerker Halfling Thrower :(

QuantumFX
02-03-2010, 01:08 AM
Where are you getting that, with burst rings and 2d10 base damge and wind stance giving you a perminant haste that is not the case. They may not be the highest but they arent the worst.

Just so you know: The negative rep was for resurrecting this stupid thread.

platonicx
02-03-2010, 01:10 AM
lvl 16 rogue and in case the quests is filled with living sneak attack able assasinable targets i usually get around 50% more kills then another barbs. Thats a rule not just sometimes always. Though sometimes TRed rangers and barbs with greensteel stuffmanage to get close behind me like they have 60 when i have 80. Other that that its usually me 90 they 30. OF course when it comes to undead or such stuff thats a whoe other story..... usually get around 5 kills with all the 3-18 damage i make to those :-D . Still dont think anyone can tear living targets as good as a rogue. also who need dps when u can just kill them (vorpal assasination)

HumanJHawkins
02-03-2010, 01:40 AM
So my question is what are the the classes with the best to worse DPS in ddo? No need of Technicalities

Anyone who gives you a straight answer to this is wrong. The bottom line is, you have zero DPS while dead, so a lot of the builds people might tell you are actually pretty low DPS unless you have a noob pocket cleric who hasn't played long enough to know that he doesn't have to tolerate you.

"No Need for Technicalities"? ***? This question can not even be remotely answered without a LOT of technicalities.

Let me interpret... Is this what you want to know: What is the best uncomplicated melee DPS class that a noob can play without knowing a whole lot about the game, where I won't hit some mid level and find out that I am worthless to other parties?

The answer is only slightly technical... A well built (that's the technical part) Ranger. You need: Dex of 17, Wis of 10 (and plan on having a Wis Item), and everything else into Str and Con. Always wield 2 weapons and always wear light armor.

I won't go into why you need to do the above. Suffice to say, it would get technical.

mafiozs1
02-04-2010, 10:07 AM
Well, guys i was reading youre disscuss about DPS, and it was so funny, but well i am playing this game only about 4days and got fighter lv 5 with great axe , welll he does crit 100dmg, i think thats awesome, because others dont do so good dmg. :) In game my nick - Godofddo , but now i made mage full int,cha,diplo and i think this will be better char, because sorcerers are the strongest, but it is very hard to make them lvl ups. I think it is the hardest part, to level up till 20 the sorcerer. :P Sorry for my English. :P

HumanJHawkins
02-04-2010, 01:39 PM
Well, guys i was reading youre disscuss about DPS, and it was so funny, but well i am playing this game only about 4days and got fighter lv 5 with great axe , welll he does crit 100dmg, i think thats awesome, because others dont do so good dmg. :) In game my nick - Godofddo , but now i made mage full int,cha,diplo and i think this will be better char, because sorcerers are the strongest, but it is very hard to make them lvl ups. I think it is the hardest part, to level up till 20 the sorcerer. :P Sorry for my English. :P

Your fighter sounds fun. That's what really matters.

FYI, criting for 100 is good. But criting 2x as often for 60 is better. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with a great axe fighter. I'm just pointing out that high numbers don't mean much unless you know how often you get them.

And for your Sorc, if you just started and you put a lot into INT, you might reroll before you get too far... INT is very important for Wizards, but almost useless to a Sorc.

If you already leveled up a bit, don't worry about it. Sorcs are so powerful after about level 8 that a few points wasted on INT won't hurt much at all.

Cheers!

icearchsage1
07-18-2010, 06:03 PM
Paladin
Cleric
Monk
Scorcerer
Barbarian
Bard
Rogue
Ranger
Favored Soul
Wizard

ConnorMacLoad
07-18-2010, 06:16 PM
weird, i always thought bio meant biological break...... good to know

howtor65
07-18-2010, 06:16 PM
I am sure this has been said but there is really no way of making a "best DPS class" list except by saying what is the best potential DPS .

example would be

1. class A with build b has the best potential for DPS
2. class b with build a is next
3. class a with build a is next

and so forth. you can have the greatest potential DPS class but played by a crappy player will to terrible DPS and vise-versa have a terrible dps class but do great DPS by a great player.

Chette
07-18-2010, 06:20 PM
How you build and equip your character has far more to do with your DPS and general awesomeness or suckitude that what image appears next to your name. There is no answer to this question.

Consumer
07-18-2010, 06:24 PM
I am sure this has been said but there is really no way of making a "best DPS class" list except by saying what is the best potential DPS .

example would be

1. class A with build b has the best potential for DPS
2. class b with build a is next
3. class a with build a is next

and so forth. you can have the greatest potential DPS class but played by a crappy player will to terrible DPS and vise-versa have a terrible dps class but do great DPS by a great player.

With DDO in its current state any player can stand in front of a raid boss and auto attack.

Velexia
07-18-2010, 06:24 PM
Rogue (Assassin)
Barbarian (Frenzied Berseker)
Ranger (Arcane Archer)
Fighter (Kensai)
Ranger (Tempest)
Paladin (Knight of the Chalice)
Sorcerer
Bard (Warchanter)
Favored Soul
Sock Puppet
Wizard
Cleric (Battle)

Consumer
07-18-2010, 06:25 PM
Rogue (Assassin)
Barbarian (Frenzied Berseker)
Ranger (Arcane Archer)
Fighter (Kensai)
Ranger (Tempest)
Paladin (Knight of the Chalice)
Sorcerer
Bard (Warchanter)
Favored Soul
Sock Puppet
Wizard
Cleric (Battle)


Far off and you forgot Monks

k1ngp1n
07-18-2010, 06:40 PM
Paladin
Cleric
Monk
Scorcerer
Barbarian
Bard
Rogue
Ranger
Favored Soul
Wizard

Interesting necro. Semi-informative thread, with just a hint of drama potential. Lacking style. Pretty odd ideas of rankings. Hmmm.... I'd say 3/5 stars.

Also, no.

k1ngp1n
07-18-2010, 06:41 PM
Rogue (Assassin)
Barbarian (Frenzied Berseker)
Ranger (Arcane Archer)
Fighter (Kensai)
Ranger (Tempest)
Paladin (Knight of the Chalice)
Sorcerer
Bard (Warchanter)
Favored Soul
Sock Puppet
Wizard
Cleric (Battle)



No.

Velexia
07-18-2010, 06:50 PM
Far off and you forgot Monks

No I didn't ~_^

samthedagger
07-18-2010, 07:19 PM
I'll chip in my two coppers, but the discussion is incredibly diverse. The truest answer I can come to is: it depends. DDO has a lot of combat variability. True to D&D, everything is situational. Where one character excels, another might falter. So here are my observations of the classes.

Barbarian: If you want regular, consistent, unbuffed damage output this class probably has the simplest approach. It is easy to build a barbarian with high Str who is perpetually raging. Situationally it might lose out to the paladin or ranger, but overall, it is a reliable DPS build at any level.

Bard: There are several different ways to build a bard, but this character can have respectable damage output at any level if built for it. Reliable bard buffs is the most dependable asset this character can have and most apply to all targets, making it a consistent damage dealer. Unfortunately, 6 base hp per level hurts, which lowers the bards true melee potential.

Cleric: I imagine most of the clerics you run into try to play the role of support which is what they do best. They do have some incredible instant-kill spells and a powerful "DPS" spell, blade barrier. A battle-cleric, that is a cleric focused on melee combat is potent and can heal extremely well at the same time, but the consensus seems (and I agree) that spending points on Str needed to do this effectively cuts into the cleric's main strength, which is casting.

Favored Soul: Because of few bonus class abilities, the favored soul can melee slightly better than the cleric, but the difference isn't enough to push the class into a primary melee role for most players. Most of the favored souls I have encountered see themselves as casters, much like the cleric. Their larger SP pool does allow them more casting "stamina" than clerics.

Fighter: Like the barbarian, the fighter is a reliable damage-dealer in almost any capacity. The fighter has a bit more versatility though in that a fighter possesses many more feats allowing for more varied tactics, plus the option to specialize in defense alongside offense. This versatility gives the fighter a number of tricks which may be difficult for other characters to perform and helps assist the party in other ways besides raw damage.

Monk: The monk is a melee class mixed with excellent skills and impressive support abilities. I would put it partway between a bard and a fighter style-wise. The monk's attack speed and ability to overcome a number of different damage reduction types proves useful in a number of situations. But what it lacks in raw damage output it makes up for in special abilities. For a player able to pay close attention to the hot-bar, the monk can be devastating in almost any situation.

Paladin: The paladin does solid damage in any situation, but where it really shines is endgame quests that are full of outsiders. Here, the paladin's specialty for demon and devil killing is the stuff of DDO legend. Add to that burst damage effects and the paladin clearly ranks with the best. The paladin is also arguably the best defensive class in the game, able to achieve untold heights of saving throws and armor class while still dealing respectable damage.

Ranger: Like the paladin, the ranger is situationally exceptional damage. All rangers select certain foes during leveling that they are more effective against. Plus the Tempest prestige path available to rangers is quite a good contributor to their overall damage output.

Rogue: Unlike some melee classes that have only one Achilles heel, the rogue has two. As a devout rogue player I am all too familiar with them. The first is relatively low 6 base hp per level. The second is their inability to deal respectable damage against foes immune to critical hits or with fortification. Against all others however, the rogue chews through them like nothing else, so it can be a very rewarding class to play, especially considering the bevy of skills (unmatched by any other class) that are available to it.

Sorcerer: The sorcerer is to the wizard as the favored soul is to the cleric. It makes up for its lack of versatility in sheer casting power. But like any caster, that SP reserve can only last so long. That said, sorcerers have the most impressive abilities to deal raw damage with spells.

Wizard: The wizard has two benefits over the sorcerer: versatility and more feats. Wizards simply have more options available. However many wizards choose to focus on crowd control and support through buffs as opposed to raw damage. They just don't have the SP pool to do it long enough to matter.

bendover
07-18-2010, 07:25 PM
This is a bit of a strange question because casters are not usually included in this discussion for DPS here. As far as the Melee Classes go, most people think like this...

1- Barbarians - Generally speaking these are your big DPS characters
2- Rangers- They can chip in with great amounts of damage in a small amount of time against certain foes and less against others. It really depends on how you build them.
3- Fighters- This is the class used as a general "measuring stick" for melee combat.
4- Paladins- they can be devastating at the higher levels, but take some time to progress.
5- Rogues -While not always true, they are usually at the back of the bus.

.


Rogues the worst??? After this update I'd vote for Rogues being top dps. You don't just have 20d6+20 (approx based on gear/enhancement/race) sneak attack damage and not do crazy damage. Add in if you're a STR based TWF Khopesh user this will put out significant DPS.

bendover
07-18-2010, 07:29 PM
Far off and you forgot Monks

That's actually just about right on.

Downgreyd
12-12-2010, 04:44 PM
What kind of way to answer a question is " a better question would be..."

bkasavan
02-16-2011, 06:58 AM
Melees however have unlimted damage potential

About that...
I was in VoN 5, and broke all my weapons. (i only had 48 deaths) so, we have a NEARLY unlimited dps.

Cardoor
04-14-2011, 09:13 PM
"End this chaos foul demon of DPS... return to the festering abyss from whence thee came and trouble these lands no longer!" the crippled halfling wizard demands leaning heavily upon her masterwork dart.

The Demon of DPS squares up with the slight halfling figure assessing the menace of her bloody dart. "Whose blood lays dry upon your dart?"

"Tis not blood foul demon, but rust. Note it well, for Tetanus is its name." answers the halfling while lifting the rusty dart before the towering demon.

"Then what is its damage per swing?" retorts the enraged demon.

The crippled halfing lunges forward in answer thrusting her masterwork dart toward the demon's hand. The demon easily steps aside and crushes the halfing over the head with an unarmed attack doing massive damage per second.

The demon does not notice the small scratch left by the rusty dart and so in time, someday, his thread will die...as will we all.

Noctus
04-14-2011, 09:25 PM
DPS = damage per second

As different combatstyles and different abilities lead to characers who dont do the same amount of swings in the same time.

Damage per swing would be useless to compare builds.

Zorack00
04-14-2011, 09:27 PM
Have to disagree here Rogues are one of the highest dps classes in game with backstabs and such. My strength based assassin rogue has out dpsed some of the best barbarians stealing aggro from them continually. Diplomacy is your friend!!:D

This pretty much...

stille_nacht
04-14-2011, 09:47 PM
I can't believe I'm getting drawn into this....

1st off, "while not always true", meant exactly that. A well built and equipped rogue can out dps many classes and build. CAN. You all have partied with a rogue before that can't out melee dps a 8 str caster as well. That same well built and well equipped rogue will still under most circumstances be out dps'd by a moderately built and equipped barbarian. It's just the way the game is built.

2nd, Generally speaking again, a rogue does the LEAST amount of damage in the game. This is for many reasons. Chief amunst them would be because about 1/2 of the mobs in the game past level 10 are undead, elemental and constructs. Rogues get no backstab on those. Rogues also LOSE their backstab damage when they have aggro. That counts against their DPS too. They can dish out some hurt, but in order for them to excell at this, they need someone else to pass off all the aggro. They also can not start off a fight and maintain aggro. If a mob is fixed on targeting them, they also lose their backstab bonus.

3rd, gaining the ability to deal 8d6 backstab damage does not mean it is ALWAYS going to be 48 damage. Most often it will fall in the 23-33 range. That's just simple statistics. A high str character can make up that difference pretty easily.

Rogues are an excellent class, but they have more weaknesses to overcome than any other melee class out there. (with the possible exception of monks.) They do not excell at straight out dps. They hit hard, yes, but cannot usually sustain that. I really don't see what is so wrong or incorrect with anything I said. A high DPS rogue is the EXCEPTION. It has been since launch, and will continue to be for a long time it seems.

1. i assume the toons we discuss are well built, a badly built toon is worse than a well built one, always

2. If the rogue has gained aggro while having 30+% threat reduction, that means he was waaay out dpsing the other party members, elementals are insignificant (not enough to counteract all the things rogues ARE good against), constructs are insignificant (portals in shroud dont really need great dps, i mean if you have 7 rogues then you are in trouble, but thats unlikely), undead are pretty important though, but rogues get by :[, wouldnt really relish running epic wiz king on a rogue tho... good thing there is no rogue equipment there.

3. 8 times 3.5 is indeed 28 damage statistically, however most pure rogues wont just have 8d6 SA (rogues can get a good 15d6 sneak attack dice, or 52.5 damage) and sure, it can be passed by a fighter, but you'd have to have a reaaaaaaally bad rogue. (seeing as many are str based anyway)

to summarize, while rogues do suffer from bad damage against undead, constructs, elementals (though they can still get midline damage from being str based and having their haste boosts), their advantage against anything else with less then 100% fort (pit fiends, mariliths, horned devils, bearded devils, orthons, tieflings, orcs, kobolds, trolls, elves, mind flayers, thaarak hounds, beholders, giant rats, sahuagin, drow, scorrow, scorpions, bats, fiendish kobolds, fiendish trolls, fiendish bats, giant spiders, raksasha, ogre mages, trogolodytes, dream stealers, ice flensers, flesh renders, fire flensers, efreetis, djinnis, dragons, giants (storm, mountain, and fire), cultists (lotta types, forget all of them), dream spiders, pirates, warforged (might or might not be a bug), humans, halflings, plants, archons, eladrin, knolls, fiendish knolls, wildmen, scrags, lions, bezekira, tigers, some stuff i mighta forgot) effectively counters the disadvantage they suffer against those 3 types

PwnHammer40K
04-14-2011, 09:57 PM
Situational. Generally, given the current endgame, I'd put my money on any build involving at least 2-3 Prestiges of Paladin or Barbarian for the tops in consistent DPS.

EDIT: and that's how it should be, IMO. Those archetypes are iconic badasses in what they're supposed to do and it should stay so. :)

Phemt81
04-14-2011, 09:58 PM
Cleric (Battle)


Sorry? Is "Battle" the new clerics' prestige class? :D

stille_nacht
04-14-2011, 10:05 PM
Situational. Generally, given the current endgame, I'd put my money on any build involving at least 2-3 Prestiges of Paladin or Barbarian for the tops in consistent DPS.

given the current endgame, rogues beat paladins and barbarians. there is one endgame quest (epic wiz king) that they are not excelling in (i dont count abbot, because that guy dies so fast it hardly matters)

PwnHammer40K
04-14-2011, 10:09 PM
given the current endgame, rogues beat paladins and barbarians.assuming no aggro? which falls over onto the situational side.

KotC's and Berserkers get a ton of unblockable bonus damage on every hit no matter what's happening.

stille_nacht
04-14-2011, 10:10 PM
assuming no aggro? which falls over onto the situational side.

KotC's and Berserkers get a ton of unblockable bonus damage on every hit no matter what's happening.

true, but then again, as long as a tank has established aggro on the boss, or the rogue knows to let someone else run in first, the 30-60% threat reduction usually keeps aggro off.

IMO its non situational enough for me to count it as a source of dps, like haste boosts (you run out, but people space them wisely)

Testevax
05-12-2012, 04:08 PM
DPS is NOT Damage Per Swing ....LMAO where did that even come from ?!?!?

The term really became popular with the rise of Everquest.

But don't believe me...here's the etymology (for those who don't know what DPS is, this big word means "the study of the origin of words and the way in which their meanings have changed throughout history")

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dps

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damage_per_second

Damage Per Swing...wow {chuckling}. Really?!? I mean, that doesn't even make sense if you are comparing relative damage. And was the fact that people reference CASTER DPS not a context clue?

arminius
05-12-2012, 04:22 PM
Necromancy: "The study of what happens to 3 year old threads that are awakened from their peaceful rest of the dead."