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Shal
09-08-2009, 10:22 PM
how do i opt my characters out of my.ddo?

Arnya
09-08-2009, 10:24 PM
Delete them? ;)

If you are anonymous, they can see your character but not the player... that's all I know so far sorry...

Marketroid
09-09-2009, 07:44 AM
how do i opt my characters out of my.ddo?

You don't. You can make them anonymous so that other players can't associate them back to you, but that's it.

We'll continue to collect feedback, but this system has worked well for LOTRO so we're inclined to keep the implementation similar here.

Borror0
09-09-2009, 07:47 AM
You don't. You can make them anonymous so that other players can't associate them back to you, but that's it.
It would be harder for people to know who my characters if they were not listed on my MyDDO profile...

We'll continue to collect feedback, but this system has worked well for LOTRO so we're inclined to keep the implementation similar here.
Different game; different community.

In this case, the notion of bad build or poor gear is much more meaningful than it is in LOTRO. It has a result on how much they would like to keep that information private to them. Also, since the playerbase is much more number oriented (as Patience once pointed out), there tends to be a lot more arguments about gear selection.

I understand that there might be reasons to not implement that function, but I think you'll need a better reasoning than "It worked for that other game of ours."

Missing_Minds
09-09-2009, 07:57 AM
I understand that there might be reasons to not implement that function, but I think you'll need a better reasoning than "It worked for that other game of ours."

Funny.. I read Marketroid's responce as...

We already paid to have the framework done once and it works. This isn't going change as we can't pay for it again. There is no budget so you just have to deal.

GreyRogue
09-09-2009, 08:03 AM
It would be harder for people to know who my characters if they were not listed on my MyDDO profile...

Any characters that you have anonymous should not be showing up in your profile except for you. At least that's how it was working for me last night. All of my characters were on my profile when I was logged in, but only the public characters were there when I logged out.

tihocan
09-09-2009, 08:05 AM
You don't. You can make them anonymous so that other players can't associate them back to you, but that's it.

We'll continue to collect feedback, but this system has worked well for LOTRO so we're inclined to keep the implementation similar here.
I hope you change your mind, because some of us would actually prefer DDO to remain different from LOTRO on a number of points, including this one.

SteeleTrueheart
09-09-2009, 08:07 AM
Except for the fact that most of my characters have Steele somewhere in their name... :o

Borror0
09-09-2009, 08:08 AM
Funny.. I read Marketroid's responce as...

We already paid to have the framework done once and it works. This isn't going change as we can't pay for it again. There is no budget so you just have to deal.
I did acknowledge that possibility when I said "I understand that there might be reasons to not implement that function".

However, the explicit meaning of his reply is "It worked for that other game of ours."

Any characters that you have anonymous should not be showing up in your profile except for you. At least that's how it was working for me last night. All of my characters were on my profile when I was logged in, but only the public characters were there when I logged out.
You're right, I usually use Chrome to check that sort of things (I use Firefox as my main browser) but for some reason, Chrome logged me in my MyDDO account without me realizing. Good, it's at least that. It makes the problem less bad...

moorewr
09-09-2009, 08:09 AM
You don't. You can make them anonymous so that other players can't associate them back to you, but that's it.

We'll continue to collect feedback, but this system has worked well for LOTRO so we're inclined to keep the implementation similar here.

You really need to rethink this. This is a very different game from LOTRO, but in both games it ought to be up to the player what information they share with the world. Otherwise, you will offend some player for no good reason.

LOTRO is simply not gear and stats driven the way DDo is.

moorewr
09-09-2009, 08:10 AM
Funny.. I read Marketroid's responce as...

We already paid to have the framework done once and it works. This isn't going change as we can't pay for it again. There is no budget so you just have to deal.

Heh. As I've said myriad contexts, Turbine's budget isn't my problem. ;)

Borror0
09-09-2009, 08:17 AM
LOTRO is simply not gear and stats driven the way DDo is.
As a matter of fact, LOTRO players don't really have builds. They have got a very small choice of trait slots.

It's maybe the level of customization of enhancement, if we compare. So, DDO still has ability stats, feats, races (races are mostly aesthetic in LOTRO), multiclassing and skill choices more than LOTRO in terms of character customization. It's also changeable at-will so, even if your traits are listed om MyLOTRO, you can easily argue that you changed them since and that the system has not yet updated.

As for the gear, the delta between average and optimal is much smaller in LOTRO than in DDO because a small number shift can have huge improvement in terms of character performance. Something as trivial as +1 AC can increase a character's resistance to melee attacks by +100%.

This is what, by the way, makes DDO so much more harder to balance than other MMOs.

Missing_Minds
09-09-2009, 08:23 AM
LOTRO is simply not gear and stats driven the way DDo is.

Last I heard if you wanted to run the latest raid it actually is very gear driven. Unless players finally found a way around that.

Garth_of_Sarlona
09-09-2009, 08:49 AM
Having equipment open has worked fine for WoW which is VERY VERY equipment based. Why wouldn't it work for DDO?

There is a vocal minority that don't want their stuff shown but there's always a vocal minority to any change. I say let it simmer for a few weeks/months and if Turbine sees harassment reports 'they wouldn't let me in their group because I don't dual wield mineral II' then have a rethink.

EDIT: edited wrong post lol

Garth

Kriogen
09-09-2009, 10:05 AM
...We'll continue to collect feedback, ...
-1 subscription.

Murgatroyd
09-09-2009, 10:27 AM
I still don't see what the big stink is. There's a lot less here than what you can find on WoWArmory.

And actually if you're that worried, it takes the gear you had equipped, so just put on a whole lot of junk gear when you log out :)

KoboldKiller
09-09-2009, 10:39 AM
I respect those who feel this is an invasion of privacy, but here's my thought on this.

Is it really that big of a deal if people can see your equipment? It's not like what you have cannot be obtained by someone else. Nobody in this game has some secret piece of gear that nobody else has or can get. I don't know of too many people who don't have greensteel items, weapons etc............ I could understand if we had a real crafting system that allows you to make something unique but we don't.

Jonny_D
09-09-2009, 10:47 AM
easiest solution. build good characters and gear them properly, then back it up with good solid play before you talk smack about other peoples builds. then noone will make fun of you. not implying anything about anyone who has commented in the thread thus far. just thinking back to someone I know who was very vocal about builds then got called up on the carpet and was found lacking.

RTN
09-09-2009, 11:05 AM
Leave it as is. There is no need to change it, IMO. Sure, a few people will cry a river about this, but you can't please everyone.

Now if you would just make it so I can see names of everyone in a LFM again. This time, add guild as well.

toastjeff
09-09-2009, 03:01 PM
You don't. You can make them anonymous so that other players can't associate them back to you, but that's it.

We'll continue to collect feedback, but this system has worked well for LOTRO so we're inclined to keep the implementation similar here.

Well, if you're the one collecting the feedback, I'd also like a way to opt my characters out.

I don't mind the idea, and I'm sure many people will take the system and do some very elaborate and creative things with it, just give the option not to participate.

Kalari
09-09-2009, 03:20 PM
I respect those who feel this is an invasion of privacy, but here's my thought on this.

Is it really that big of a deal if people can see your equipment? It's not like what you have cannot be obtained by someone else. Nobody in this game has some secret piece of gear that nobody else has or can get. I don't know of too many people who don't have greensteel items, weapons etc............ I could understand if we had a real crafting system that allows you to make something unique but we don't.

I dont think its just about gear though KK I think there are many people who would brag about the gear they have if they have good stuff. But what about those people who just want to play that dont have 50 wop or tier III shroud items or blood stones out the wazzoo? what about people who have made builds they like only to have it exposed like this and be nit picked to pieces by people with little life only to play the game? Before this came out many people (you remember cupcake's story) had to deal with players who told them how to play the game, how to build what to wear just to get into good raids or even play with in their own guild groups. Such elitism is very rampant in the game and this will only worsen it. Ive taken to ignoring unasked for advice on any of my girls due to dealing with vocal people who think they know my play style. But I know there are players who are not as thick skinned and this will cause issues for them. Its one thing to claim being a gimp for fun or knowing your a gimp but happy. Its another to have people actually scope your build out and exclude you because your not good enough in their eyes. This new addition and the forum rep is really turning ddo into a cliq mentality place. DDO meets high school and for many of us that isnt a place we really want to be rushing back to.

KoboldKiller
09-09-2009, 03:24 PM
Valid points Kalari. I didn't take all of that into consideration as I have never ran into those issues. I suppose in those instances it could be a real issue.

Mockduck
09-09-2009, 03:37 PM
I fully expect people to call my characters gimped, but I know what my success level is in game, so it doesn't really matter.

Rowanheal
09-09-2009, 03:37 PM
I need a valid solution...

I have characters I use to not be "that girls who loves the color PINK"

I turned everything but my mains on Argo to anonymous... so my understanding is they are on the "myddo" but not associated to my account.

The character listing showed everything for me when I kept trying to retool the listing. I would love to use it for my girls on Argo, but if "all" the characters are going to show on there (all 25 or so of them), I am simply going to keep the widget turned off.

Anonymous in my mind means it is not listed in the character listing for display?

Is there something I am not seeing?

Also, anyone else notice that if you have a character you moved to another server, in the character listing it is still showing the original server information? I tried logging the character in and out to see if that would repopulate the information.

I am looking to talk about this on this week's podcast segment... I like the "idea" in theory.

Just a little confused on what we can control and we can't, what shows on "myddo" under my name, and how I can make it work right.

And yeah... some people are going to use the system for griefing... it is simply the way some people are wired... truly a shame.

We've been asking Turbine for a way to view out characters and their gear offline. They've given it to us... just not the way some of us would have liked :)

See ya in Stormreach,

-R

HowardMac
09-09-2009, 03:42 PM
...Its another to have people actually scope your build out and exclude you because your not good enough in their eyes....

My guess is if the person was that hard-core about it that THEY would eventually be the one excluded, not you.

With DDO going free to play I would be willing to bet the influx of new folks playing the game just for the fun of experiencing everything (like you) will outweigh the elitist groups by a wide margin.

Bogenbroom
09-09-2009, 03:43 PM
See here is my foible. I have (as noted in my sig) 3 accounts. The way the forums (including my.ddo) are setup are that my forum account is associated with *1* of those 3 accounts. Shouldn't/couldn't my forum account be associated with my *Turbine* account rather than my DDO subscription. Turbine Accounts=1. DDO Subscriptions=3.

Kalari
09-09-2009, 03:43 PM
Yep I noticed Nyxy and Seraoti who I transferred to Thelanis and Nyxy who I sent back to Sarlona from Thelanis since she unlocked drow for me over there does not show up even though shes who ive been currently working on (really want tempest III lol). Both girls are listed under anonymous that I have to sign in. That is valid for Sera since I havent logged into Thelanis in almost 3 weeks again but was on Nyxy last night for a little bit and her info just isnt being uploaded. Think they broke her on the way back and forth :p hehe.

I really dont have too much issue with this new addition as I said before people can go by playing with me to see if my builds are that bad or not. But many people really do not want their details being so public cause as its been said it can and will just be another way to have exclusion and unwanted advice thrust on people who were just happy playing.

Angelus_dead
09-09-2009, 03:45 PM
Having equipment open has worked fine for WoW which is VERY VERY equipment based. Why wouldn't it work for DDO?
For one thing, WOW is a different game and it encourages many social activity patterns that DDO players are explicitly trying to avoid...

In addition, WOW's gear is on a strenuously-designed progression path, instead of the often thoughtless design DDO's items have. That means observing a gear problem can be more like suggesting a future improvement than calling out an irreparable flaw. In DDO there's truth to saying: "Bows/Repeaters/Shields SUCK", while the WOW design would not countenance that degree of imbalance.

Put another way, a simpler design means there are fewer ways to do something wrong, so there are fewer ways to insult a character.

And of course, DDO has more non-changable character choices than most games..

Kalari
09-09-2009, 03:47 PM
My guess is if the person was that hard-core about it that THEY would eventually be the one excluded, not you.

With DDO going free to play I would be willing to bet the influx of new folks playing the game just for the fun of experiencing everything (like you) will outweigh the elitist groups by a wide margin.

Hehe trust me im not worried about myself got great guilds on Sarlona and Thelanis. I dont really have to worry about being picked apart they know what I bring to the group and the few people Ive run with in other guilds I consider allied do to. Plus I know im happy with what ive put into my girls and the pace I want to gear them out. I also know and have seen others who were shunned because of things like that who had their builds put down and picked apart and as nice as it will be to see a flood of new players who dont know better wanting to run things with established players is a common mentality to. And no one wants to feel like they are not good enough. I dont think this entered the designers mind when they put this together though evidence of this has been around even in this forums. I dont like the thought of people being excluded for not having x and y or having optimal builds and I only hope this site isnt used for such things but I have a bad feeling it will be.

phinius
09-09-2009, 11:17 PM
You don't. You can make them anonymous so that other players can't associate them back to you, but that's it.

We'll continue to collect feedback, but this system has worked well for LOTRO so we're inclined to keep the implementation similar here.

Very disappointing.

Twerpp
09-09-2009, 11:35 PM
Waaaahahhhhh! People can see I suck without even having to group with me waaaaahH!!!

Seriously, whats the big deal?

You got caught with a wiz6 item instead of archmagi? Using a treason instead of greensteel? Who cares man? If you are truly runnin a sub build and gear people would know it looooong before myddo. If you have been an insane good player and people come to find out youve been doing it with average gear isnt that a compliment?

Nuckin
09-10-2009, 01:32 AM
There isn't a reason that anyone can come up with that can deny the fact that this site should have been optional. It is extremely unethical to just post everything about everyones characters. There are so many things wrong with that. It is true that it seems that many people like this but it doesn't change the fact that it should have an op out option.

This site basically opens it up for anyone to steal ur build..... u might not think this is a bad thing but not all of us want half the server running around with the same build as us... most of us pride ourselves on not being cookie cutters...

The fact that it shows your gear isn't that bad... I admit i gimp most of my chs with the gear i give em but am not embarrassed at the fact that i don't have all day everyday to spend on grinding for gear...

This site can also make it very easy to keep track of people... especially now when people are still lvling up... since it shows how much xp your chs have you could quite frankly map out when someone is on and running quests... this might not seem like a bad thing but there is an anonymous button in game for a reason...

Athermal
09-10-2009, 04:22 PM
-1 subscription.

I call.

gimak
09-11-2009, 01:27 AM
You know it is sad day when people say things like whaaa and WOW has the same thing, even turbine saying we have it in LOTR .
1: this is ddo not WOW: if it was Wow it would have way more content, better crafting and better PVP :
if you want what WOW has then play WOW
2: This is not LOTR if it was it would also have more content, better crafting system, and a cool pvp system.
If you want what LOTR has play that game.

this game is DDO it not a cookie cutter game like the others. This is a game based on players choices on how to build a character and what loot to get/build. This game is my choice because it not like other games.

You may not think much of what turbine has done, and that your choice. No one is saying you cannot have this listing and be on it. Others find it wrong and offensive, who do not want to be on it. They should have the option to not be on it.

Other say what is the big deal if someone else knows your character or what they have: If I wanted others to know what I have for items or even stats I would post it in my bio that what is is there for.

I do think it is sad when turbine who seemed to bend over backward for the players when they find other issues like loading screens, offensive names, and offensive players and act quickly to fix the issues [even though the game is made rated for teens], are now saying we have it in LOTR so it is staying.

this issue is really a belief issue, and what has been done Offends my beleifs of what I think of privacy.

* I have been a loyal player of DDO since march 2006: I never left [cancled my accounts] and came back because the content took to long to get here. I played through the terrible lag issues that Turbine had with ddo in the past. I even stayed when you could not get a full group before the server merge. I have never posted a comment to complain about issues having faith in the developers to fix them, until now.

It is a sad day when I have to really think of leaving the game over what Turbine is doing in the forums and not what in the game. I have an option to join the forums or not. If I do join I have the option whether or not to leave any information. Except when it comes to this issue the only choice is delete all toons and leave the game. Having to delete the toons to get the informatin off the page and doing that would mean not coming back at all.

Arnya
09-11-2009, 01:45 AM
I just can't wait for all the PMs asking how I can do all the uber stuff I do with such gimpy characters :)

QuantumFX
09-11-2009, 02:11 AM
I find it humorous that people are worried about how people will judge you by your gear.

Wouldn’t you want to be booted from a group run by someone so anal retentive that they’re willing to open up my.ddo.com, look up your character name, look through all the duplicate names on the other servers and then base a decision on a non real time updated list of your gear?

chton13
09-11-2009, 08:51 AM
Do people really think the empty threat of quitting over this is suddenly going to change Turbine's decision? Seriously, will you hold your breath until they allow you to opt out, stamp your feet? I would imagine that anyone who thinks this is a reason to quit should quit and spend that money on the medication they much need.

Shal
09-11-2009, 09:44 AM
You don't. You can make them anonymous so that other players can't associate them back to you, but that's it.

We'll continue to collect feedback, but this system has worked well for LOTRO so we're inclined to keep the implementation similar here.
well thats great! im glad it has worked so well for lotro. and WOW too. to bad this is DDO! :mad:

if i wanted to play wow or lotro, then i would have signed up for wow or lotro. if your going to implement this feature, then it should at least be our choice as to wether or not the information is displayed. and the "anonymouse" tool is a joke. there is nothing anonymouse about displaying a character sheet with my

equipment
attributes
rank
lvl
experiance pts
guild
ac
hp
sp
bab
fort
saves
resistance
dr
gender
race
alignment

not to mention the exact time, down to the minute, of when i leveled, when i compleated what quest, what i spent action points on, and when i did it.

:mad: :mad: :mad:

chton13
09-11-2009, 10:52 AM
That would depend on what you think "anonymouse" means, since if you select anonymous no one will know that YOU did any of those things.

Lorichie
09-11-2009, 11:35 AM
I find it humorous that people are worried about how people will judge you by your gear.

Wouldn’t you want to be booted from a group run by someone so anal retentive that they’re willing to go to windowed mode, open up my.ddo.com, look up your character name, look through all the duplicate names on the other servers and then base a decision on a non real time updated list of your gear?

Thank you. I came here specifically to rant and rave about this feature. I dont like it, and of all the things that could happen that might make me leave, which there are very few, this is a potential deal breaker. Over three years and multiple accounts like many others, and something like this is forced down my throat? No way.

Then i read this. And i stepped back and realized you are right. I've always been of the mind if someone doesnt like what i do, or dont do, or dont have etc, then ....... them, their loss not mine. And it will be as such with this new feature.

Again, thank you.

+1

R

moorewr
09-11-2009, 11:48 AM
"This is all too much for me. I need to port back to Xen'drik at once."

gharet
09-11-2009, 11:48 AM
not to mention the exact time, down to the minute, of when i leveled, when i compleated what quest, what i spent action points on, and when i did it.


This data is only available to you while logged in when a character is anonymous. Other players, or users who are not logged in, will not see the log data when you have a character marked as anonymous.

Kindoki
09-11-2009, 12:34 PM
I really like my.ddo, and don't care that others can see my stats and equipment. I would rather know about the @$$hats, who are going to discriminate against my character, long before the middle of a quest. This allows them to self prune from my groups.

HOWEVER, I do think, just like the reputation system, that a person should be able to completely darken their character if they so choose.

I know jack all about programming, but it seems that a person should be able to checkmark a box and have all their character pages replaced with a big 'anonymous' sign. That way you don't have to stop collecting information on everyone, which seems like it could be complex to program, but they can still go anon.

edit: I almost forgot...Marketroid - you must be an only child...otherwise you would know better than to compare siblings....it always ends bad! :D

Shal
09-11-2009, 01:00 PM
This data is only available to you while logged in when a character is anonymous. Other players, or users who are not logged in, will not see the log data when you have a character marked as anonymous.when will the feature be developed to opt characters out of the my.ddo experiance?

it was said by an official, that they would concider all the feedback. i dont see any feedback suggesting that users not have the choice to opt out, and a large portion of the feedback is showing that people dont want this information available to everyone.

gharet
09-11-2009, 01:05 PM
oh ... so only the thousands of ddo users have access to the time stamped personal information while my character is marked as "anonymous" ...

No, those thousands of DDO users do not have access to view your character log.

Further clarification: what I mean by "You only have access while logged in" is, "You as the owner of that particular character, while you are logged in"

chester99
09-11-2009, 01:19 PM
the obvious result of this is, when people put up an lfm they will just visit this site to validate those who want to join. inferior gear'ed players will be rejected more often than they are now.

my.ddo.com makes this game less approachable to novice players.

way to go folks.

Shal
09-11-2009, 01:22 PM
No, those thousands of DDO users do not have access to view your character log.

Further clarification: what I mean by "You only have access while logged in" is, "You as the owner of that particular character, while you are logged in" i noticed and edited my post accordingly ... thanks. but it still doesnt address the rest of the items and attributes listed. therfor i would like to ask ...

when will the feature be developed to opt characters out of the my.ddo experiance?

it was said by an official, that they would concider all the feedback. i dont see any feedback suggesting that users not have the choice to opt out, and a large portion of the feedback is showing that people dont want this information available to everyone.

KoboldKiller
09-11-2009, 01:27 PM
I have stated I have no issue with my information being available. I would like to suggest that people stop looking at the negative side, which lends to their mental state and see how people being able to see gear and such could be beneficial to those who may be new and not sure what gear to use.

chton13
09-11-2009, 01:32 PM
I don't want one second of development time spent on an opt out option, not because I care if people can see my character info or I want to scope others, but I don't want anytime taken away from things everyone wants, i.e. more content, bug fixes. I imagine I'm not the only one who feels that way either.
Also, do people think that anyone shallow and sad enough to use this to screen party members would take anyone who opted out? I think this fear of screening is like most things on these forums, over blown fear mongering.

moorewr
09-11-2009, 01:34 PM
I don't want one second of development time spent on an opt out option, not because I care if people can see my character info or I want to scope others, but I don't want anytime taken away from things everyone wants, i.e. more content, bug fixes. I imagine I'm not the only one who feels that way either.
Also, do people think that anyone shallow and sad enough to use this to screen party members would take anyone who opted out? I think this fear of screening is like most things on these forums, over blown fear mongering.

You should know perfectly well that the staff that work on myLotro and myDDO do not work on the games directly.

RTN
09-11-2009, 01:34 PM
Most people that I play with like my.ddo.com just as it is. Adding in Anon removing your account name seems a perfectly good option.

Most people will not go and check my.ddo.com to see your gear and builds before letting you into a group. There will be a few, but lets be honest, you wouldn't like playing with them anyway. I can see people doing a say elite PUG shroud might check to make sure people can pull their weight.

However, let's say they did add the ability to go completely anonymous and you take it. You'll be rejected then anyway since you'll be anonymous and the assumption will be that you're hiding a complete gimp.

I'd like to see crafting info up as well (Greensteel and DT armor details, etc.). Also add in where ability scores, hps, etc are coming from, like on the Character screen w/ tool tips. Then use the website as a learning and teaching tool. Look for good builds to learn from or get feedback on your own build.

Kalari
09-11-2009, 01:39 PM
Meh personally I dont care what people think about my builds but the moment I start seeing people going that person's all wrong for this quest/raid I saw their make up on myddo my squelch list is gonna become full again and I just cleared most of the xryrsner's guys out of there.

Some say its fear mongering but even before the site came out you had excluders yeah they were easy to tell by their know your role lfm's but this will actually give people like this the means to divide even more. Personally it wont affect me but I do know of friends who have dealt with this nonsense before and only hope they dont end up going threw it again.

Shal
09-11-2009, 01:40 PM
I have stated I have no issue with my information being available.

neither do i, so long as the user has a choice.


I would like to suggest that people stop looking at the negative side, which lends to their mental state and see how people being able to see gear and such could be beneficial to those who may be new and not sure what gear to use.so now, the way you percieve my "mental state" is being judged too? :rolleyes:

if somebody wants this information available to anybody, then fine. i dont, whats wrong with that?

Missing_Minds
09-11-2009, 01:59 PM
the obvious result of this is, when people put up an lfm they will just visit this site to validate those who want to join. inferior gear'ed players will be rejected more often than they are now.

my.ddo.com makes this game less approachable to novice players.

way to go folks.

Have a rather shallow opinion of your fellows players, huh?

Tell me how many people are actually going to bother to take the time to screen each an any player that attempts to join their group? Esp when the average complaint is to get moving on the quest, not sit around waiting.

Lifespawn
09-11-2009, 02:06 PM
i noticed and edited my post accordingly ... thanks. but it still doesnt address the rest of the items and attributes listed. therfor i would like to ask ...

when will the feature be developed to opt characters out of the my.ddo experiance?

it was said by an official, that they would concider all the feedback. i dont see any feedback suggesting that users not have the choice to opt out, and a large portion of the feedback is showing that people dont want this information available to everyone.

wow you are really worried someone is going to out you on you char stats? nobody is going to run a raid and look up everyone trying to join the rest of the group will get bored and leave.

Alot of the feedback is that people like the idea a vocal few are scared they will be picked on get over it.

rest
09-11-2009, 02:47 PM
I just can't wait for all the PMs asking how I can do all the uber stuff I do with such gimpy characters :)

You'll probably have to wait until you start doing uber stuff :p

chton13
09-11-2009, 02:52 PM
Maybe if enough people complain about it in their exit surveys Turbine will listen, I mean that's where the wonderful grazing hits nonsense came from. Feedback from actual players, not so much.

chester99
09-11-2009, 02:56 PM
Have a rather shallow opinion of your fellows players, huh?

Tell me how many people are actually going to bother to take the time to screen each an any player that attempts to join their group? Esp when the average complaint is to get moving on the quest, not sit around waiting.

I don't know if you've noticed this, but most people playing this game are pretty bad at it. but whatever, that's a style choice that seems to make people happy, and who am I to complain about personal choice. in any case, I can't speak for anyone else, but I can tell you I intend to use it to screen pugs. for better or worse (and I'm voting 'worse' here).

jakeelala
09-11-2009, 04:00 PM
here's an upside:

I used to be a heavy player, with mad loot, and all of that. I took about a year off, and have started playing casually again.

Some people remember me, some don't, but I play at top 90th percentile of the game and you know what equipment I use?

-Zero W/P (Now or Ever)
-Zero Shroud Crafted items
-Zero Raid Loot (some guildies stripped all my character when I left thinkign I was never coming back)

This notion that you have to have the best loot to play is TOTALLY bogus. Yes you have to have some, but the difference between the best and what people vendor/AH for cheap is FAR FAR FAR lower than EVERYONE makes it out to be.

Very few people who play this game have a good notion of whats known in economics as "diminishing returns".

Of course it adds, of course good gear is nice, of course it makes you better. But you know what, if you cant play with vendor gear just as well, then as far as I'm concerned, all that uber loot is just a band-aid for your lack of ability/practice/thoughtfulness about how to play this game.

So I say let them see my toons, so when I'm the only left standing after a Shroud speed run in part 4, they can see that I did it in a DB of SR 17 robe, two Holy Spell rapiers, and +6 stat gear.

Sucks to your loots Turbine!

KoboldKiller
09-11-2009, 04:17 PM
neither do i, so long as the user has a choice.

so now, the way you percieve my "mental state" is being judged too? :rolleyes:

if somebody wants this information available to anybody, then fine. i dont, whats wrong with that?


I simply mentioned if you continually look at the negative in things it suggests the mental state the person is in.

KoboldKiller
09-11-2009, 04:22 PM
I don't know if you've noticed this, but most people playing this game are pretty bad at it. but whatever, that's a style choice that seems to make people happy, and who am I to complain about personal choice. in any case, I can't speak for anyone else, but I can tell you I intend to use it to screen pugs. for better or worse (and I'm voting 'worse' here).

I must say I find that a bit disconcerting. What if the person did not have their optimal equipment on at the time you check yet they still have good equipment? Honestly if that's the type of person your going to be I hope I never run into you. I can't stand people in this game who feel they have the right to judge others based on their build or equipment.

Shal
09-11-2009, 04:45 PM
However, let's say they did add the ability to go completely anonymous and you take it. You'll be rejected then anyway since you'll be anonymous and the assumption will be that you're hiding a complete gimp.fine with me


wow you are really worried someone is going to out you on you char stats? nobody is going to run a raid and look up everyone trying to join the rest of the group will get bored and leave.no, not really ... but what if i were? what is it that makes it any of your buisness?


Alot of the feedback is that people like the idea ...as i said ... none of the feedback suggests that the feature shouldnt have an option to opt out. a large portion of users would like to opt out.


a vocal few are scared they will be picked on ...i never witness anybody suggest they are scarred of anything, but i may have missed somthing.


get over it.**** off


I simply mentioned if you continually look at the negative in things it suggests the mental state the person is in.oh, im sorry doctor. i should be all happy go lucky whenever somebody tries to **** **** up my ass. :rolleyes:

KoboldKiller
09-11-2009, 04:50 PM
Your absolutely right. You should look at the negative in everything.

:rolleyes:

Shal
09-11-2009, 05:00 PM
Your absolutely right. You should look at the negative in everything.

:rolleyes:im not saying that its not a nice feature, or that it should be discontinued. im saying that there is a large portion of the userbase that is either not interested, or would rather not be involved with it and the option should exist where these users can opt thier characters out ... for whatever reason.

what is so wrong with that?

chester99
09-11-2009, 05:36 PM
I must say I find that a bit disconcerting. What if the person did not have their optimal equipment on at the time you check yet they still have good equipment? Honestly if that's the type of person your going to be I hope I never run into you. I can't stand people in this game who feel they have the right to judge others based on their build or equipment.

I agree. it sucks that I would do that. between you and me, I'm a pretty horrible person. but you didn't hear that from me. and the potential for false positives (where positive = crappy play) is exceptionally high using htis methodology. but since it's here, I have to do it; its the only tool I have.

we can avoid this whole hornets nest however by letting people opt out entirely. see how easy that was? that little anonymous flag actually has meaning and all is right with the world.

win/win/win

Lifespawn
09-11-2009, 05:46 PM
fine with me

no, not really ... but what if i were? what is it that makes it any of your buisness?

you posting on the forums makes it evweryones buisness

as i said ... none of the feedback suggests that the feature shouldnt have an option to opt out. a large portion of users would like to opt out.
so a large portion is sofar 4 people


i never witness anybody suggest they are scarred of anything, but i may have missed somthing.

**** off
ahh the maturity level

oh, im sorry doctor. i should be all happy go lucky whenever somebody tries to **** **** up my ass. :rolleyes:

responses in red

chester99
09-11-2009, 05:55 PM
so a large portion is sofar 4 people


... of people who happen to read this rediculously obscure corner of this obscure forum some random friday afternoon and then share their views with their fellow readers. and, considering their argument for anonymity and privacy, I think we can determine they are quite likely to post... so statistically speaking, it's clear to me that those 4 rep about 80% of the ddo community.

science.

Shal
09-11-2009, 07:26 PM
no, not really ... but what if i were? what is it that makes it any of your buisness?

you posting on the forums makes it evweryones buisnessme posting my belief that my.ddo should be an option, rather than a requirment, in your opinion makes my character sheet everyones buisness. that makes no sence.


as i said ... none of the feedback suggests that the feature shouldnt have an option to opt out. a large portion of users would like to opt out.
so a large portion is sofar 4 peoplemaybee take the time to read and listen outside this thread.





**** off
ahh the maturity levelonly in responce to your maturity level. the "get over it" (that was convieniently left out of your post) statement, and the kindergarden accusaitons of people being "scared", led me to post in a fashion you may be better able to comprehend. apparently it worked.

Lifespawn
09-11-2009, 09:05 PM
me posting my belief that my.ddo should be an option, rather than a requirment, in your opinion makes my character sheet everyones buisness. that makes no sence.

no your opinion is what i was commenting on i said nothing about your char sheet being my buisness i could care less how badly you gimp a char the game is fun for everyone and elitist pricks will just group with themselves how is that not a good thing for you?

maybee take the time to read and listen outside this thread.


only in responce to your maturity level. the "get over it" (that was convieniently left out of your post) statement, and the kindergarden accusaitons of people being "scared", led me to post in a fashion you may be better able to comprehend. apparently it worked.

there won't be any negative effect from this i don't understand what your problem with it is.

They already said anonymous wouldn't link to you

Shal
09-11-2009, 10:48 PM
there won't be any negative effect from thisthis is an opinion that i dont agree with


i don't understand what your problem with it is.and i dont understand why theres a problem with allowing users the option to opt out.

Jefro
09-12-2009, 09:01 AM
Who cares about people seeing your character, I am proud of my character. I look forward to figuring what would be the best gear layout for it as well. I do not think people will be using my ddo much to check on players joining their group. Usually anything needed for the quest would be mentioned if you are leading the party. I also know if as a cleric someone taking a lot of damage I would discuss what would be causing that and try to fix it some.
What I see on live is that this anonymous **** is causing the problem, when one hits a private LFM you invite then have to kick them out for being a dolt for clicking on it, but if they are in a quest they can holdup the group.

chton13
09-12-2009, 12:01 PM
I don't understand why people are afraid (you can try to spin it anyway you want it's fear) of people seeing their character sheet. You have no expectation of "privacy" when it comes to something you don't own, again spin it anyway you want the character info is Turbine's property. If you think people will use this to screen, then being anonymous will be an instant bar, so again no use to it. There should be no resources used no matter where they come from for this IMHO.
I really don't care if people get the ability to hide their sub optimal characters or their oh so secret build that everyone on the server will have. I just wish people would admit why they want to hide and stop acting like everyone is afraid like them.

moorewr
09-12-2009, 12:03 PM
you Have No Expectation Of "privacy" When It Comes To Something You Don't Own,

Wrong.

chton13
09-12-2009, 12:46 PM
Wrong.

LOL, wrong, but you keep thinking that, it's wrong but you're entitled to your opinion. I'd ask where you get that expectation from, but that'd be wrong too. I admire people who don't let the facts interfere with their opinion. Kudos to you man!

moorewr
09-12-2009, 01:55 PM
LOL, wrong, but you keep thinking that, it's wrong but you're entitled to your opinion. I'd ask where you get that expectation from, but that'd be wrong too. I admire people who don't let the facts interfere with their opinion. Kudos to you man!

My expectation comes from the laws of the United States (you know, where I live and where Turbine operates its business) and the EULA I agreed to when I subscribed with Turbine. Unlike you, I've posted the relevant section of Turbine's privacy policy. You, on the the other hand, have only provided ad hominem attacks on those you disagree with, and demonstrated that you do not understand that privacy rights are not the same as property rights.

Now, if you would like this conversation go anywhere useful (other than my ignore list.. now THAT's useful), you need to stop attacking the motives you assume for those you disagree with and present actual logical arguments in support of your position.

Good luck.

Shal
09-12-2009, 02:25 PM
I don't understand why people are afraid (you can try to spin it anyway you want it's fear) of people seeing their character sheet. You have no expectation of "privacy" when it comes to something you don't own, again spin it anyway you want the character info is Turbine's property. If you think people will use this to screen, then being anonymous will be an instant bar, so again no use to it. There should be no resources used no matter where they come from for this IMHO.
I really don't care if people get the ability to hide their sub optimal characters or their oh so secret build that everyone on the server will have. I just wish people would admit why they want to hide and stop acting like everyone is afraid like them.


Who cares about people seeing your character, I am proud of my character. I look forward to figuring what would be the best gear layout for it as well. I do not think people will be using my ddo much to check on players joining their group. Usually anything needed for the quest would be mentioned if you are leading the party. I also know if as a cleric someone taking a lot of damage I would discuss what would be causing that and try to fix it some.
What I see on live is that this anonymous **** is causing the problem, when one hits a private LFM you invite then have to kick them out for being a dolt for clicking on it, but if they are in a quest they can holdup the group.all those in favor of not having the option to opt out, have failed to give reason as to why users shouldnt have the option to opt out. can you tell me why i shouldnt have the option to opt out of my.ddo?

and please dont use the excuse "its a waste of time and resources" as the ground work has already been laid, and making the anonymous feature show no information, instead of 90% of the information, would take little effort.

why is this feature being shoved down our throat?

the way i heard it was, that the devs are trying to keep this online setting as close to the original d&d pnp experiance as reasonably possible. the only person i was "required" to share my character sheet with, was my dm. the game mechanics are already set for that. if i wanted to pass my character sheet around the table, or mail it to some other group or entity, it was compleatly my chioce. not so with my.ddo, where i have no choice. by not adding a simple feature to allow users to opt out of the my.ddo experiance, they have shown utter disregard to the original dungeons and dragons experiance this game WAS based on ... the dungoens and dragons created by gary gygax and others that are no longer with us. :mad:

chton13
09-12-2009, 03:19 PM
My expectation comes from the laws of the United States (you know, where I live and where Turbine operates its business) and the EULA I agreed to when I subscribed with Turbine. Unlike you, I've posted the relevant section of Turbine's privacy policy. You, on the the other hand, have only provided ad hominem attacks on those you disagree with, and demonstrated that you do not understand that privacy rights are not the same as property rights.

Now, if you would like this conversation go anywhere useful (other than my ignore list.. now THAT's useful), you need to stop attacking the motives you assume for those you disagree with and present actual logical arguments in support of your position.

Good luck.

You have pointed to a section of the privacy policy that has nothing to do with the character info. It has to do with personal info, unless you feel your character is you, it is not relevant. I continue to point that out, but you just ignore it and think this section is in anyway relevant, read it again, slowly running your finger over the words if necessary. Please cite the relevant laws of the US that apply to your expectation of privacy in character info owned by Turbine. Where exactly are you licensed to practice law? If so the jurisdiction has a low bar to entry.
Again if you are afraid of people seeing your sheet, that's okay, say it and not that it has anything to do with privacy.
Also I find it funny that not only the legal scholars get in here, but the programming experts who know who works on this and how easy it is to implement. First off if that is true then more power to you, let people hide their characters and be done with it. But if it takes anything away from things everyone wants, i.e. bugfixes and new content to please a few paranoid folks, then i say no way. The handful of people who've weighed in here don't amount to a large percentage of the playerbase, they're just noisy and panicky.

crazycaren
09-12-2009, 06:09 PM
Hi

The whole my.ddo character display seems creepy. I don't know why, it's not logical. I'd REALLY appreciate an opt out option. Most of the people I run with don't seem to like it... comments have been referring to 'Big Brother' etc. Perhaps it's because we're not from the Facebook generation where everything about your life is online for everyone to see.

Besides it's the perfect set up for plat farmers to harvest character names for sending spam - something I'd rather avoid.

thanks!

moorewr
09-12-2009, 06:16 PM
You have pointed to a section of the privacy policy that has nothing to do with the character info. It has to do with personal info, unless you feel your character is you, it is not relevant. I continue to point that out, but you just ignore it and think this section is in anyway relevant, read it again, slowly running your finger over the words if necessary. Please cite the relevant laws of the US that apply to your expectation of privacy in character info owned by Turbine. Where exactly are you licensed to practice law? If so the jurisdiction has a low bar to entry.
Again if you are afraid of people seeing your sheet, that's okay, say it and not that it has anything to do with privacy.
Also I find it funny that not only the legal scholars get in here, but the programming experts who know who works on this and how easy it is to implement. First off if that is true then more power to you, let people hide their characters and be done with it. But if it takes anything away from things everyone wants, i.e. bugfixes and new content to please a few paranoid folks, then i say no way. The handful of people who've weighed in here don't amount to a large percentage of the playerbase, they're just noisy and panicky.

1) I've quoted the actual policy and stated why it is relevant. You need a better argument than "nuhh uhhh."

2) IANL

3) This isn't about me. I will, once again, direct you to my page on myDDO for an indication of my opinion regarding my own characters.

4) You could not, even just this once, avoid making ad hominem attacks. I now have seen enough of your total contribution to these forums to know I should not expect you to improve. That's fine.. you'll be easy enough to add to my ignore list if you keep this up.

Osharan_Tregarth
09-12-2009, 06:31 PM
when will the feature be developed to opt characters out of the my.ddo experiance?


Umm.. With the current setup, why do you need to? Click anon on all of your characters, and you're opted out.

Seriously, I don't get your point here.

moorewr
09-12-2009, 06:52 PM
Umm.. With the current setup, why do you need to? Click anon on all of your characters, and you're opted out.

Seriously, I don't get your point here.

I'm guessing you haven't actaully tried it.

RTN
09-12-2009, 07:06 PM
Umm.. With the current setup, why do you need to? Click anon on all of your characters, and you're opted out.

Seriously, I don't get your point here.

Paranoia rarely makes sense.

However, going anonymous doesn't make your character invisible. It hides your account/form name from appearing/linking to your characters and hides your accomplishments. I believe that is what changes. I also believe that is all it should do. Privacy isn't violated by having fictional character information available for view, neither is the TOS since this isn't identifiable information.

Shal
09-12-2009, 10:14 PM
Umm.. With the current setup, why do you need to? Click anon on all of your characters, and you're opted out.

Seriously, I don't get your point here.anon does not opt your char sheet out of my.ddo


Paranoia rarely makes sense.neither does the need to call it somthing that its not :rolleyes:

chton13
09-12-2009, 11:29 PM
OMG you're going to put me on ignore, so you can be contradicted? I'm so scared, as to my contribution, what are you adding other than nonsense. If you honestly believe that what you quoted has anything to do with the character information owned by Turbine, then so be it. You can believe that a policy that deals with user's personal information protection somehow relates to protecting Turbine's data, but that doesn't make it true. Nor does the handful of people who have weighed in here have any relation to the actual population's opinion. Plenty of people may agree with you, but there's no evidence to that effect. We'll see if anything is done to address this huge outpouring of complaints or more likely we'll see nothing done. Let's see what Turbine does, and that will tell you how much people are freaking out over the prospect of people seeing their character info. Care to lay bets on what will happen?

bluedragon043
09-13-2009, 12:53 AM
I think it is an invasion of privacy in a sense. It does not reflect me as a player though, you can have a gimped toon and be plenty of help playing that toon well.

But I have been told that as a sorcerer if I did not have solid fog I could not be in their group, and next if you don't have a Triple positive or other uber loot you can not play with us. I do think in the end the person who takes that much time to put the perfect group together will be the one left in the dark.

But I do feel like I'm standing in front of the class and someone has just pulled my pants down with full exposure.:(

Shal
09-15-2009, 08:12 AM
even thought there is no personally identifiable material contained in the pages, it is my character that is displayed for all to see. the only person that has the right to see my char sheet, is my dm.

i guess in order to understand the other side, i would need the answer to one question. and that is ... what right do you have to see my character sheet? nobody has been able to answer that question. it all comes down to excuses about time in r&d, which is mute, because the groudword has already been made and the modification would take little effort. or itll help newbies, but what if the newbie doesnt want help? shouldnt it be thier chioce?

even if you like the pages, and i can see why some would, what is wrong with being able to opt your characters out?

what is wrong, with being able to opt your characters out? the answer is that there is nothing wrong with it, and it should be our choice.

this is something that the devs developed because they wanted it not because the people want it ... and in order for them to enjoy it in all thier glory, they dont want users the option to opt out. thats what it comes down to. we, the paying customers, have no choice about this, and are in fact being told what we should and should not like.

so even if you like it, would having a choice to opt out really hurt the way you enjoy it? unless your going to use it to vet players, then the answer is no, it wont hurt you a bit. so then, what is wrong with having an option to opt out?

Kindoki
09-15-2009, 08:33 AM
this is something that the devs developed because they wanted it not because the people want it ... and in order for them to enjoy it in all thier glory, they dont want users the option to opt out. thats what it comes down to. we, the paying customers, have no choice about this, and are in fact being told what we should and should not like.


I'm with ya shal, excluding this paragraph. There have been plenty of players who wanted something like this for a long time. I myself have commented that something like my.lotro would be great in DDO. HOWEVER, I one hundred percent agree that a person should be able to opt out, and more than just disconnecting player from character. Hopefully, that'll come soon.

Aldan_Truthsay
09-15-2009, 12:22 PM
i guess in order to understand the other side, i would need the answer to one question. and that is ... what right do you have to see my character sheet? nobody has been able to answer that question.

I need a "right" to see it? That "right" is granted by Turbine who owns the characters.


or itll help newbies, but what if the newbie doesnt want help?
Then that newbie won't go look on my.ddo.com to get guidance for character builds.


even if you like the pages, and i can see why some would, what is wrong with being able to opt your characters out? what is wrong, with being able to opt your characters out? the answer is that there is nothing wrong with it, and it should be our choice.

If I want to see how other people play a class that I don't know how to play, but they all decide they want to opt out of the site, then I have a lot less to see. The site is less valuable to those of us who want to use it. You can hide all your characters, which only affects you in a "positive" way - while hundreds of people that might come across your characters and learn a thing or two are denied that chance


so even if you like it, would having a choice to opt out really hurt the way you enjoy it? unless your going to use it to vet players, then the answer is no, it wont hurt you a bit. so then, what is wrong with having an option to opt out?
Yes. If every other barbarian on my server has opted out of the service, and I'm denied a group because I'm not geared right or something, then I can't use the site to see that. Turbine gave me this tool to use, so I want to use it.

Kalari
09-15-2009, 12:56 PM
Ive been playing around with the site, with the user preference you can completely take the character list off your page that way the only way people can look you up is if they go threw the pain staking task of typing in your name and looking you up that way. And if your like me you probably have alts of your favorite names on all the servers lol.

I think if a person is gonna really go threw all that effort to see if im good enough Id probably not want to play with such an anal person in the first place.

Shal
09-16-2009, 10:22 PM
I'm with ya shal, excluding this paragraph. There have been plenty of players who wanted something like this for a long time. I myself have commented that something like my.lotro would be great in DDO. HOWEVER, I one hundred percent agree that a person should be able to opt out, and more than just disconnecting player from character. Hopefully, that'll come soon.i agree that plenty of players want it, and that its a cool feature to have around. but if it were for the players, then the players should have a choice to opt out. there is no choice, therefor this isnt for the players, imo, its for the devs. as aldan has hinted to in the next quote, chances are that alot of users would enjoy and use a feature that opts their character out of my.ddo, leaving it in a state that "they" wouldnt like. therefor ... that option is not available and this feature is bing shoved down our throught.


I need a "right" to see it? That "right" is granted by Turbine who owns the characters. the question was "what right do you have" ... not what right does turbine have. i can clearly see that there is no personally identifiable material contained in the pages, therefor there is no breach of the privacy policy. but imo, my privacy is still being invaded.



Then that newbie won't go look on my.ddo.com to get guidance for character builds.you totally missed the point of that lol




If I want to see how other people play a class that I don't know how to play, but they all decide they want to opt out of the site, then I have a lot less to see. The site is less valuable to those of us who want to use it. You can hide all your characters, which only affects you in a "positive" way - while hundreds of people that might come across your characters and learn a thing or two are denied that chancethis implies that your wants and desires are more important that anybody elses. i disagree.



Yes. If every other barbarian on my server has opted out of the service, and I'm denied a group because I'm not geared right or something, then I can't use the site to see that. Turbine gave me this tool to use, so I want to use it.i cant follow the "my wants and desires are more important than everyone elses" mentality that you showed above, therefor this has no bearing. if every barbarian wants to opt out, and only you want to see the information, then to damn bad. lol



I think if a person is gonna really go threw all that effort to see if im good enough Id probably not want to play with such an anal person in the first place.there are multiple reasons that have been brough up for not wanting a char sheet disclosed. personally, i could care less about the vetting process that may utilize this feature.

its my character sheet. besides the newly formed and laughable excuse that "one persons wants and desires are more important that everyone elses," what right do you have to see my character sheet?

chton13
09-17-2009, 07:11 AM
Aha so only some people's wants and desires matter, yours and those who want to opt out? Oh well at least you've moved on from privacy laws to your own narrow opinion of what should and shouldn't be shared. It's your opinion that this is "shoved down the player's throats" and it's the opinion of many others that it doesn't matter. Read these threads and realize how few people really care if someone can see their character sheets. Where's the big uproar? Guess like the person above who would be SOL if he wanted to see another barbarian but they all opted out, too damn bad eh?

Shal
09-17-2009, 11:09 AM
Aha so only some people's wants and desires matter, yours and those who want to opt out? not at all. an opt out feature, as the "anonomous" feature is now, would be a choice.


Oh well at least you've moved on from privacy laws to your own narrow opinion of what should and shouldn't be shared.my position on this has never changed. while i feel that it is indeed an invasion of my privacy, it does not break turbine privacy policy.


It's your opinion that this is "shoved down the player's throats" and it's the opinion of many others that it doesn't matter. Read these threads and realize how few people really care if someone can see their character sheets. Where's the big uproar?it is you that should take a closer look. people are quitting the game, scores of people have posted in this thread, and threads similier in nature, as to how much they feel my.ddo should be an option.


Guess like the person above who would be SOL if he wanted to see another barbarian but they all opted out, too damn bad eh?yup. looks like im sol, because this feature is not for the people of the game, but for turbine. and its rather obviouse that they dont care what a majority of us think about it one way or the other. they put it in place the way they wanted it, and it doenst matter if you think it should be required, or i feel that its shouldnt, it is what it is and if you dont like it, then to damn bad.

i really never though the devs would be so blatently assnine over somthing like this. to me, this shows that it doenst matter what that people of the game want, there going to do whatever thay want anyway.

nobody has yet voiced a logical opinion of why this feature should be a requirment, because the fact is, it shouldnt be. even you go around the issue by loooking for falicies in my statments, as opposed to giving good argument to the contrary.

chton13
09-17-2009, 12:01 PM
Vast majority? LOL. Sorry if I confused your opinion with the other member of the vast majority that posted how this violates Turbine's policy or even more hilariously the law. Oh well I guess this will be the death of DDO, it was fun while it lasted. Oh wait I think the inability to buy 32 pters will be the death, or the need for level sigils for F2Pers.. I forget which of these horrid decisions will doom the game. I mean just because people have predicted doom since launch and the game appears to be still up and running doesn't mean that one of these particular complaints will do it. I mean hell lack of content, slowing of updates and all aside it's the ability to not opt out of myddo that will kill the game.
The reason why many people don't bother to defend the decision to not be able to opt out is many people don't care one way or the other. Turbine, no matter who it is at Turbine has better things to spend their time on than protecting the small portion of the population that is afraid of people seeing their character sheet.

Shal
09-17-2009, 12:16 PM
Vast majority? LOL. Sorry if I confused your opinion with the other member of the vast majority that posted how this violates Turbine's policy or even more hilariously the law. Oh well I guess this will be the death of DDO, it was fun while it lasted. Oh wait I think the inability to buy 32 pters will be the death, or the need for level sigils for F2Pers.. I forget which of these horrid decisions will doom the game. I mean just because people have predicted doom since launch and the game appears to be still up and running doesn't mean that one of these particular complaints will do it. I mean hell lack of content, slowing of updates and all aside it's the ability to not opt out of myddo that will kill the game. i never once predicted, nor implied this will be the doom of ddo. once again, your attempting to skirt the real issue ... this time by reading into my posts somthing that does not exist at all.

The reason why many people don't bother to defend the decision to not be able to opt out is many people don't care one way or the other. Turbine, no matter who it is at Turbine has better things to spend their time on than protecting the small portion of the population that is afraid of people seeing their character sheet.if so many people dont care about my.ddo, then again ... whats the big deal with having an opt out?

if im a waste of time, then the devs should let me know. i was looking for an mmo when i found this one, im sure i can find anouther. but again, your derailing the issue. there is no large amount of time or resources that would be required to alter the existing coding to give users the ability to opt out. the framework is already made and has already been implemnted. altering the code to display no information when a user selects anonomous, instead of only three quarters of the information, would take little effort.

and while your speaking for all those that dont care one way or the other, if given the choice and they were required to make one, would they choose to have an option to opt out, even if they wouldnt use it? we already know the answer to that ... they would choose that the choice be available.

so ... why are you so vigorously defending the fact that we shouldnt be allowed to opt out? your last post contradicts itself in defending if everyone opts out then the feature would be usless, then goes on to say that its a small minute portion of the community ... whitch invalidates your argument. so ... why do you feel there shouldnt be an option to opt out?

chton13
09-17-2009, 12:56 PM
I've never said there shouldn't be an option to opt out. All I'm doing is poking holes in the idea that a) a "vast majority" want this option b) it is easy to do c) it violates the law or Turbine's policy d) that it is worth any developer time.

I don't need to defend the lack of this option, it is already not there. The burden is on the "vast majority" to show why any of Turbine's resources should be used on it.
So you can read into my posts some agenda to keep people from opting out, while all I do is point out fallacies in your theory and ask that Turbine not IMO waste anytime on something so trivial.
Nowhere has Turbine evinced the slightest evidence of changing this policy and so you can say it's this or it's that, but the fact is that it is what it is. If Turbine makes the change more power to ya, the squeaky wheel got it's grease, but I want to express the wishes of the "vast majority" (2 can play this game) that don't want any scarce resources expended for so small a return. So while I don't care if people can opt out I care if anything else is delayed in order to implement that. I would like to see you tell me why I should support any resources being dedicated to this effort. BTW if your programming expertise is such why not simply provide the code to Turbine to do this and the point would be moot?

enochiancub
09-17-2009, 01:23 PM
I call.

I call as well.

Show your hand!

Shal
09-17-2009, 05:00 PM
I've never said there shouldn't be an option to opt out. yes you did, when you said that the devs shouldnt waste there time on somthing so trivial. you say it again in the following qotes of your post.


All I'm doing is poking holes in the idea that a) a "vast majority" want this option historically, and statististically speaking, its the nature of a human being to opt for choice. therefor, given the choice to have an opt out feature, or not to have an opt out feature, the vast majority of anybody would choose to have a choice.


b) it is easy to do its not difficult. as was already said and explained, the coding is there, its in place, its functional and its operational. the amount of intellegence needed to tackle this task, is minimal as compared to any developer with knowledge of how the software/coding is put together.


c) it violates the law or Turbine's policy ive never made that claim, nor do i support it. because the char sheet contains no personally identifiable material, it does not violate turbines privacy policy, however it does lead to severe moral and ethical questions that i am concerned about.


d) that it is worth any developer time. the devs that work on my.ddo, are not the same devs that work on the game itself. if they have time to work on the software/coding at all, then taking the time to modify the anonymous feature would take up very little of this time. and actually, what your saying here is that only a portion of the paying customers of ddo are worth the time to lift a finger for.


I don't need to defend the lack of this option, it is already not there. The burden is on the "vast majority" to show why any of Turbine's resources should be used on it.that defence has been raised more than enough times to justify the cause. i ask you, why should none of turbines resources be dedicated to giving the paying customers an option that in your words, the lack of cannot be defended.


So you can read into my posts some agenda to keep people from opting out, while all I do is point out fallacies in your theory and ask that Turbine not IMO waste anytime on something so trivial. again, by asking that turbine not waste the minute amount of resources that would fix this software, you are saying that your in favor of there not being an option to opt out. and the resources argument is trivial, imo.


... but I want to express the wishes of the "vast majority" (2 can play this game) that don't want any scarce resources expended for so small a return ...sorry, i dont think this is a game. appearantly you do. your doing so by misrepresenting the facts, and speaking for people that you neither know, or have elected you to be their voice. so to quell your "vast majority" concerns ... lets look at the facts.

fact is, three people in this forum have posted specifically that they dont want the feature changed a bit. one of which later changed their opinion and mentioned that there maybee should have been an option to opt out afterall.

fact is, there are 41 different users in this forum that have expressed that my.ddo should have come with the option to opt out, even if they were to use it or not.

so ... the fact is you dont speak for the majority, youve construed the information gathered to promote your own personal agenda, and if you would have done your own math, you would realize that there are two, maybe three people that adamantly support no opt out feature, as opposed to fourty one people that support one.

fact is, the majority of people (in this forum, not including the users in other forums of ddo whos numbers greatly reflects those found here) are in favor of an opt out feature, wether or not they would use such a feature or not.

fact is, the time and resources that it would take to modify the existing anon feature would be trivial, making it a non issue, which in itslef suggests that you have an alternate agenda that you would rather not disclose.

Kalari
09-17-2009, 07:59 PM
Well I know I never said anything to that fact and agree that players should be allowed to opt out of it, but after tinkering around you can make it really hard for people to look up your characters unless you make the characters known Ie signature or just a popular player period.

Either way never said anything against an opt out option I just dont feel that it's as big a deal as I felt when I first saw it. I to thought this is like having the DM in my pnp game showing my character sheet to the group and anyone else who came into the store where we played just because they could. Then I worked with it and its not as evasive as it comes across specially once you get the settings worked around.

Either way still agree that those who dont want in this should be able to say so but if you cant there are plenty of ways of making your characters anonymous so that they wont be exposed save to very nosey and bored people.

chton13
09-17-2009, 09:06 PM
OK, I guess you've done your surveys and have all the answers. I can't disagree because you are just making assumptions and there's no arguing with that. You continue to believe what you want, I'll continue to deal with reality. There's no reasoning with someone who'd got their finger on the pulse of the community as well as knowledge of Turbine's project management status and the amount of coding to make the change. After all of that I can't for the life of me figure out why Turbine doesn't hotfix the game tomorrow and implement your plan. My hidden agenda to not waste time on trivial features that have no impact on the "vast majority" of players. Clearly the amount of attention this thread is generating will spur the foolish people at Turbine to do this, probably can knock it off before lunch. I think this in fact should be number one priority, a "vast majority" of players have spoken.

Shal
09-17-2009, 09:15 PM
... you are just making assumptions and there's no arguing with that ...ive stated the facts

Shal
09-17-2009, 09:16 PM
Well I know I never said anything to that fact what fact would that fact be?

chton13
09-18-2009, 08:45 AM
And like I said it's pointless to argue with someone who thinks their opinion is fact. As I said if it's so easy and the "vast majority" want it then why wouldn't Turbine do it. I guess then the "fact" is that Turbine intentionally has chosen to upset a "vast majority" of it's player base by leaving out a "simple" to implement feature. Makes sense to me.
I have no issue with the principle of allowing people to opt out, I object to IMO (note not a "fact") wasting time on it. Effectively that makes me opposed to adding the feature after the fact, but I have no real problem with the idea. I do however find no logical reason to want to opt out, but that's another issue.
Anyways the true "facts" of the situation will be borne out by what Turbine does, if they don't add it, then I guess it's not as easy, desired or Turbine just hates it's player base. I don't know which sounds more factual to reasonable folks but oh well, common sense not very common on the internet.

Shal
09-18-2009, 10:50 AM
I have no issue with the principle of allowing people to opt out, I object to IMO (note not a "fact") wasting time on it. you object to wasting time on it ... that is a fact.

you really dont have any idea what your talking about. lol (that is an opinion, but your not going to understand, so i dont know why i even pointed it out.)

chton13
09-18-2009, 11:04 AM
No, I have no idea what you are talking about, but I do know where you're talking out of when you refer to your conclusions as fact. Don't worry the huge outpouring of the "vast majority" will have this "simple" fix enacted in no time. With such rock solid "facts" how could it not be?

Kalari
09-18-2009, 01:12 PM
what fact would that fact be?

The fact that you think anyone who says anything but "yes we should opt out" is against you. You seem to be on a personal crusade so I think im gonna leave your thread alone after this. I get it the change annoyed you and I do still agree those who dont want in this should really have that option. But your argumentative rants against anyone who dont agree has really made this pov of yours hard to back up. The ones who attacked your idea and flamed you deserve your ire not those who just made points about it not being such a big deal, but im sure you will go on and keep attacking anyone who may make your ranting seem as illogical as it has been the last 2 pages. Enjoy your crusade maybe you will convince someone in charge of this to consider it if you ease up a little.

Shal
09-18-2009, 03:07 PM
No, I have no idea what you are talking abouti know

Shal
09-18-2009, 03:21 PM
The fact that you think anyone who says anything but "yes we should opt out" is against you. i never said nor implied anything of the sort, however i will point out that self centered excuses and trivial references of time and resources are laughable.


You seem to be on a personal crusade so I think im gonna leave your thread alone after this.maybee so, but its not meant to discourage your participation, only encourage others to jump in and voice thier rebuke. as youve said in other threads, there really is no reason that this feature shouldnt have been installed without an opt out option.


I get it the change annoyed you and I do still agree those who dont want in this should really have that option. But your argumentative rants against anyone who dont agree has really made this pov of yours hard to back up.sorry you feel that way. my posts seemingly rant towards people that falsly accuse, misrepresnt, and otherwise skirt the real issue.


The ones who attacked your idea and flamed you deserve your ire not those who just made points about it not being such a big deal, but im sure you will go on and keep attacking anyone who may make your ranting seem as illogical as it has been the last 2 pages.it may not be a big deal to some, but it is to others. i can see where there comming from, and have no ill will against them, unless they use my words to draw conclusions that are inaccurate or compleatly incorect. ive been called scared, paranoid, a freak, in a negative frame of mind, a liar, and any number of other elemetary style tactics of intimidation. i think that ive kept my cool better than most would have.


Enjoy your crusade maybe you will convince someone in charge of this to consider it if you ease up a little.wont happen. the feature is how they want it, and they are going to keep it that way. there already rearanging how the forums are viewed to squash the subject being seen.

RTN
09-18-2009, 07:13 PM
there already rearanging how the forums are viewed to squash the subject being seen.

Ummm...sure. :rolleyes:

enochiancub
09-18-2009, 07:24 PM
there already rearanging how the forums are viewed to squash the subject being seen.

Well, at least that explains the tinfoil hat that was left on the floor...

Shal
09-18-2009, 07:40 PM
Ummm...sure. :rolleyes:


Well, at least that explains the tinfoil hat that was left on the floor...
ahhh ... enter "the double standard" ... where my opinions can be ridiculed, but i should not ridicule others. :rolleyes:

enochiancub
09-18-2009, 08:09 PM
No, I really should have noted that I was being playful. Not mean by any means.

I personally don't care if my toons are seen or not. However there SHOULD be an option to make ones toons and info TRULY anonymous.

Shal
09-18-2009, 08:16 PM
No, I really should have noted that I was being playful. Not mean by any means.

my bad, i read it wrong. i appoligize.

RTN
09-19-2009, 09:54 AM
ahhh ... enter "the double standard" ... where my opinions can be ridiculed, but i should not ridicule others. :rolleyes:

No, demonstrate evidence of Turbine rearranging the forums to intentionally bury this thread. You made a wild accusation of malice on the part of Turbine with absolutely no evidence.

Shal
09-19-2009, 10:46 AM
No, demonstrate evidence of Turbine rearranging the forums to intentionally bury this thread. You made a wild accusation of malice on the part of Turbine with absolutely no evidence.whatever

i should have known that it would be used to detract from the real issue

moonprophet
09-19-2009, 10:49 AM
...what the need for secrecy is....can soeone explain this? I am not trying to be a Troll, I am genuinely interested in hearing the legitimate concern over folks being able to veiw your character builds, guild membership, ect.... I don't understand how having this type of information can provide a negative impact.

Shal
09-19-2009, 12:25 PM
...what the need for secrecy is....can soeone explain this? I am not trying to be a Troll, I am genuinely interested in hearing the legitimate concern over folks being able to veiw your character builds, guild membership, ect.... I don't understand how having this type of information can provide a negative impact.numerouse reasons have been posted over and over again, not only in this thread but in others. while i havent fully disclosed my personal reasons, there are enough here already to choose from that you shouldnt have to look far to find your answers.

the my.ddo sugestions forum has other reasons as well

natedogg729
09-21-2009, 12:15 PM
I for one think that MyDDO is a good thing for those that need or want help or advice on building a better build. It is easier to relay the information about your build and if you have guildies that are helpful then they can just look your build up and see if they have better equipment or other stuff they can give or lend you.

Like most things in life there will be people who abuse the use of good things. I personally don't want to group with those people anyways.

natedogg729
09-21-2009, 12:19 PM
...what the need for secrecy is....can soeone explain this? I am not trying to be a Troll, I am genuinely interested in hearing the legitimate concern over folks being able to veiw your character builds, guild membership, ect.... I don't understand how having this type of information can provide a negative impact.

Reason number one that I can think of are the Plat Sellers/Spammers, they only need to find the name of your guild then whether or not you are annonymous they can get your characters names and all of those in your guild.

Reason number two is some people will criticize others on why thier build sucks or does not meet thier standards. Those people I do not want to group with anyways.

ariel7
09-22-2009, 11:40 PM
It would be harder for people to know who my characters if they were not listed on my MyDDO profile...

Different game; different community.

In this case, the notion of bad build or poor gear is much more meaningful than it is in LOTRO. It has a result on how much they would like to keep that information private to them. Also, since the playerbase is much more number oriented (as Patience once pointed out), there tends to be a lot more arguments about gear selection.

I understand that there might be reasons to not implement that function, but I think you'll need a better reasoning than "It worked for that other game of ours."

Agreeing 100% with Borror0 here...

RTN
09-23-2009, 07:23 AM
Agreeing 100% with Borror0 here...

False argument. If you have your characters set to anonymous, they don't appear in your account profile. Unless you want it, there is no link between your profile and your characters. Default is set to anonymous.

Shal
09-23-2009, 09:28 AM
False argument. If you have your characters set to anonymous, they don't appear in your account profile. Unless you want it, there is no link between your profile and your characters. Default is set to anonymous.not compleatly, there is still alot of relevant information contained in borror0's post, and throwing away the relevent information under the guise of one inaccurate sentance is a shady political tactic ... imo

this is the post with the first sentance removed ... all of which is still relevent.

Different game; different community.

In this case, the notion of bad build or poor gear is much more meaningful than it is in LOTRO. It has a result on how much they would like to keep that information private to them. Also, since the playerbase is much more number oriented (as Patience once pointed out), there tends to be a lot more arguments about gear selection.

I understand that there might be reasons to not implement that function, but I think you'll need a better reasoning than "It worked for that other game of ours."

Shal
09-24-2009, 11:40 AM
No, demonstrate evidence of Turbine rearranging the forums to intentionally bury this thread. You made a wild accusation of malice on the part of Turbine with absolutely no evidence.
your right, its probably just a coincidence that every forum in ddo has its own listing on the forum page, except the website discussions forums. and its probably just a coincidence that the myddo forums used to have their own forums (all listed seperatly on the forums page) until the friday before they launched there ad campain that filled up the website discussion forums with more complaints. its probably just a coincidence too, that they did it on a friday just before leaving for the weekend.

speaking of coincedences, its probably anouther coincedence that you ignore all the facts stipulated in my post, and instead focus on the one that may be questionsable, so as to discount the rest that cannot be argued with. :rolleyes:

RTN
09-25-2009, 02:46 PM
If you go to the main forums page (where the main links take you from ddo.com, etc....or if you just type in forums.ddo.com), you get a complete listing of the forums on the left hand side with announcements, recent threads, etc. in the center. I assume this is the page most people go to since it is the default. my.ddo.com general discussion shows up in the list like every other part of the forum.

However, if you go to the old listing, then you get the old forums view and then my.ddo.com discussion doesn't show up because it is structured as a subforum of a subforum, just like the trade and guild sections of each server. Only first level subforums show up on that list--and only old timers will start on the old forums view since it isn't the default anymore. In fact, I'd bet you have a bookmark that takes you there and that you chose that intentionally over the current default. I get to the forums through forums.ddo.com, so when the default changed ages ago, I also switched.

Shal
09-25-2009, 03:26 PM
If you go to the main forums page (where the main links take you from ddo.com, etc....or if you just type in forums.ddo.com), you get a complete listing of the forums on the left hand side with announcements, recent threads, etc. in the center. I assume this is the page most people go to since it is the default. my.ddo.com general discussion shows up in the list like every other part of the forum.

However, if you go to the old listing, then you get the old forums view and then my.ddo.com discussion doesn't show up because it is structured as a subforum of a subforum, just like the trade and guild sections of each server. Only first level subforums show up on that list--and only old timers will start on the old forums view since it isn't the default anymore. In fact, I'd bet you have a bookmark that takes you there and that you chose that intentionally over the current default. I get to the forums through forums.ddo.com, so when the default changed ages ago, I also switched.wow ... im an old timer now. lol.
pointing out the flaws in your theorys is a compleate waste of time. good day.

ariel7
09-26-2009, 03:14 PM
False argument. If you have your characters set to anonymous, they don't appear in your account profile. Unless you want it, there is no link between your profile and your characters. Default is set to anonymous.

Agreeing with someone is not a false argument.

People also might have valid reasons for wanting others to know character NAMES, for purposes such as trading, regular grouping, guild duties and a host of others. This does not mean they wish to have their gear open for viewing, or stats. For someone like yourself, for...whatever reason (possibly not wanting to hear people yell false argument in voice chat) you do not list your characters, that's ok. I think anyone that does not do so is making that choice because they know they make statements they can not back up, are a tool on the forums and ashamed to have others know them, or aren't very good players and don't wish to have their characters linked with their forum account. Just my opinion. Further, and more closely related to the subject, anonymous isn't useful if most people on your server already know your characters.

Saying false argument is hilarious, and doesn't come off half as authoritative and witty as it does in your shell. I only wish I could see you saying that to a spouse and then watching him/her smack you for it.

96th_Malice
11-04-2009, 12:29 PM
I respect those who feel this is an invasion of privacy, but here's my thought on this.

Is it really that big of a deal if people can see your equipment? It's not like what you have cannot be obtained by someone else.

Trust me ..... Not that most peeps here care BUT

PvP ..... knowing saves / stats & last but NOT least the alignment of the toon that you are fighting can mke the difference between life or death.

I didnt even realize that "MyDDO" was available for all to see until some caster came in and started FTS ing me and made me aware he had just checked on My toon out on MyDDO and new my save would be difficult !!

So ya sure ...... in everyday questing who cares what gear & stats you have

BUT

For us that do enjoy PvPing ..... The ability to look up your foe's stats and gear is freakin lame !!

100%, having your toon displayed for all to see should be OUR option not DDO's !!

Just my 2 cents

Ryeack
01-25-2010, 10:29 AM
Would you post your Family's Secret BBQ Recipe for the entire world to see? or what about that invention that you've been working on that's going to revolutionize the industry?

I kind of think that way with my character... I'm building it to a precise specification, I don't want just any ole Joe copying my build... And I don't want to be refused for a group because of what I have in my hands when I log out... Normally, I sell & repair before logging, so I have some haggle equipment on, and a few other things... Not what people want to see when building a group...

However, I see how the site can be useful for New players, such as myself, who started when the F2P update was done... Other more experienced players can look at your build and offer advice. Fortunately for me, I have a roommate with that experience. But for those that don't, this can be viewed as a positive...

I consider myself very fortunate to have that experience living with me, this game can be very complex in regards to builds and as one person has said, (don't quote me on this) a +1 to your AC could mean your missed 100% meleeing...

That is my 2 cents worth... for whatever it's worth... But i definitely feel that there should be an opt in option instead of forcing people to succumb to your whim...

Coffee
02-21-2010, 02:27 AM
I am a little upset about this my.ddo thing. Some of the players do not pull in the search, so ddo is obviously letting them opt out. I do NOT want everybody viewing my gear, level, activity and discussing it at all. How about some basic privacy in a game that we spend days and weeks to find gear that gives us a slight edge in quests?!

Lleren
02-21-2010, 04:29 AM
In Real Life you can't click /report harrasment or /ignore playername. In Real Life you have to call the police, it is generally your word against thiers, and there is a much greater amount of time/risk involved. I support a right to privacy in Real Life.

In Online Games you can click /report harrasment or /ignore. In online games there is a record of all player interactions. Even though it may be uncomfortable to those involved, there is no risk to life, limb, property or livelyhood.

It is better to find out quickly who the <bleeps> are that will drive other players away from your game, then to find out slowly, after they have done more extensive damage to your player base. Enough players /report harrasment by that player, and they will be gone from the game entirely. Early detection is key.

Tymoriel_Ayreweaver
02-22-2010, 11:55 PM
Trust me ..... Not that most peeps here care BUT

PvP ..... knowing saves / stats & last but NOT least the alignment of the toon that you are fighting can mke the difference between life or death.

I didnt even realize that "MyDDO" was available for all to see until some caster came in and started FTS ing me and made me aware he had just checked on My toon out on MyDDO and new my save would be difficult !!

So ya sure ...... in everyday questing who cares what gear & stats you have

BUT

For us that do enjoy PvPing ..... The ability to look up your foe's stats and gear is freakin lame !!

100%, having your toon displayed for all to see should be OUR option not DDO's !!

Just my 2 cents

Actually users really can't see anything but what you logged out with last. I had someone look at one of my toons (without my prompting) and was told that the toon was built incorrectly. Interesting as they can see absolutely nothing about my build what so ever and I was in between trading out items for another toon I am building. It is instances like this that make myddo a tad irritating.

Fenrisulven6
03-12-2010, 02:18 PM
I still don't see what the big stink is.

Boss: "I see that you called in sick to play DDO all afternoon...."

megathon
03-15-2010, 04:20 PM
Any characters that you have anonymous should not be showing up in your profile except for you. At least that's how it was working for me last night. All of my characters were on my profile when I was logged in, but only the public characters were there when I logged out.

The probem with being anon is that some people do not invite anon people.