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Artis_Resistance
09-07-2009, 03:37 AM
Okay, started an Elven Ranger/Wizard today. Before I get too far (currently level 2, one level of each), I want to get a general idea of what skills, spells, enhancements I should be going for. I'm okay with starting over if I've been doing it wrong.

Attributes

Str 14 (extra attack bonus and damage)
Dex 16 (defense)
Con 12 (hit points)
Int 14 (Wiz spells)
Wis 12 (Ranger spells)
Cha 8 (worthless)

Skills

I've just been putting points into Haggle, Balance, Concentration, Search, Listen, Spot, Heal, and Use Magic Device.

Spells

Mage Armor
Magic Missle
Shocking Grasp

Feats

Dodge
Quicken

Enhancements

+1 Longsword damage (forgot the name)
-5% spell failure (again, forgot the name)

Eventually, I plan to concentrate on self-heals, buffs, non-save reliant attack spells, and two weapon fighting (tempest). I plan to raise Dex and Int as high as possible. Mid-range spell points, high hit points.

To make a long post short, what would be the best progression to allow these things. I can't find a lot of info on this class combination using the search function.

Talon_Moonshadow
09-07-2009, 11:13 AM
Ah, my young Padawan. (an old Elven word meaning apprentice, last used a long time ago, in a forest far, far away.)

You have embarked on a road seldom traveled in Stormreach.
A road few understand, and fewer wish too.

You will face many trials in your path to mastery.
Not the least of which will be discrimination.
People will question your choice, they will brand you a witch, an outcast.
Are you prepared for these difficulties my child?

You will have to make many decisions along the way.
How will you divide your studies? How many Wizard lvls do you intend to take?
How much investment in Int?

I myself chose to not invest heavily in Int, and to use my arcane talents for buffs.
Most notably, Haste and Displacement. Displacement remains very valuable in the Devil Battlefield.

I also chose the path of shadow....of stealth. I see you have not.
I urge you to reconsider that choice. Others will tell you that it is useless, but I find more and more uses for it everyday. Invisibility in particular is also of great use when battleling the Devils on their home plane.

As far as lvling up, there are several ways to go about it.
You need to look closely at the compendium and decide what is the most important to you to gain first.
I suggest taking Rgr2 next. For TWF and Rapid Shot.
After that the choice is harder.

Your Wiz offensive spells will be of some use at low lvls if you choose to take more Wiz lvls soon.

Or you can hurry along to the path of the Tempest.
Rg6 gives very nice abilities.

And Rgr 9 gives evasion. The best feat in the game IMO.

Just look closely at the compendium cha charts to see what you will gain at each lvl and make a choice that suites your desires.

I will leave you with the following words of wisdom:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=195506

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=189167

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=187340

(And beware of Displaced Halflings bearing gifts.)

Artis_Resistance
09-07-2009, 11:25 AM
Well master, as of now I have a working plan to level 10.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 10 Lawful Good Elf Male
(1 Rogue \ 5 Ranger \ 4 Wizard)
Hit Points: 104
Spell Points: 305
BAB: 7\7\12
Fortitude: 6
Reflex: 12
Will: 6

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 10)
Strength 14 14
Dexterity 16 20
Constitution 12 12
Intelligence 14 14
Wisdom 12 13
Charisma 8 8

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 10)
Balance 7 9
Bluff -1 -1
Concentration 3 9
Diplomacy -1 -1
Disable Device 6 11
Haggle -1 -1
Heal 1 1
Hide 3 8
Intimidate -1 -1
Jump 6 6
Listen 5 8
Move Silently 3 8
Open Lock 7 14
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 2 2
Search 6 10
Spot 5 10
Swim 2 2
Tumble 7 13
Use Magic Device 3 8

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage I


Level 2 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Human
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Fluidity I


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Mobility
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I


Level 4 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Quicken Spell
Enhancement: Elven Arcanum I
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I


Level 5 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Elven Arcanum II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Fluidity II


Level 7 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage II


Level 8 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Energy I
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy Manipulation I


Level 9 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I


Level 10 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Fluidity III




Perhaps there is a better way to go about it?

Talon_Moonshadow
09-07-2009, 12:28 PM
Well master, as of now I have a working plan to level 10.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 10 Lawful Good Elf Male
(1 Rogue \ 5 Ranger \ 4 Wizard)
Hit Points: 104
Spell Points: 305
BAB: 7\7\12
Fortitude: 6
Reflex: 12
Will: 6

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 10)
Strength 14 14
Dexterity 16 20
Constitution 12 12
Intelligence 14 14
Wisdom 12 13
Charisma 8 8

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 10)
Balance 7 9
Bluff -1 -1
Concentration 3 9
Diplomacy -1 -1
Disable Device 6 11
Haggle -1 -1
Heal 1 1
Hide 3 8
Intimidate -1 -1
Jump 6 6
Listen 5 8
Move Silently 3 8
Open Lock 7 14
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 2 2
Search 6 10
Spot 5 10
Swim 2 2
Tumble 7 13
Use Magic Device 3 8

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage I


Level 2 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Human
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Fluidity I


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Mobility
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I


Level 4 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Quicken Spell
Enhancement: Elven Arcanum I
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I


Level 5 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Elven Arcanum II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Fluidity II


Level 7 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage II


Level 8 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Energy I
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy Manipulation I


Level 9 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I


Level 10 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Fluidity III




Perhaps there is a better way to go about it?

I just think you gain a lot from Rgr6 and/or Wiz5.

Mine was my first char. I did not take Rog first. Which was a mistake.
If you want to go the Rog route it does take a lot of dedictation to keepning your skills up.

tihocan
09-07-2009, 01:28 PM
My 2 cts:
You can make it a fun character to play, but in the long term it won't be a really efficient one. Your offensive wizard spells will be useless. Your buffs will be too weak and easily replaced by another caster in the group or consumables and craftable clickies. As a result you'll mostly be a ranger, but weaker than if you hadn't taken these wizard levels. And you'll have to face some serious skepticism when trying to get into some groups.

That being said, if you want to do it, go for it and have fun, that's what the game is for :) I hate to tell people how to build their characters, but I'd rather make sure you know what's awaiting you at the end for the road.

Artis_Resistance
09-07-2009, 09:21 PM
I'm mostly building it for solo reasons. Started as a Rogue. Then I'll take a Ranger level, two Wizard levels, 2 Ranger levels, a Wizard level, Ranger, 2x Wizard, 2x Ranger, Wizard, Ranger, Wizard, and the rest as Ranger.

Disarm traps, unlock doors, self-buff, self-heal, non-save DC attack spells, TWF.

Angelus_dead
09-07-2009, 09:35 PM
I'm mostly building it for solo reasons.
What solo reason might that be?


Disarm traps, unlock doors, self-buff, self-heal, non-save DC attack spells, TWF.
Combining Ranger and Wizard like that is good for neither solo nor group play. Rog1/Ran19 or Rog2/Wiz18 would be superior.

The main problem with mixing them is that the spells from low levels of wizard don't remain helpful at high level.

Artis_Resistance
09-07-2009, 10:10 PM
1. I tend to play hybrids that go against the grain. Therefore, I tend to be solo a lot. At least until I get into a good guild and they see I'm good at what I do. Also, the build I'm gunning for is a patented motif I've used in PnP D&D (also Cleric/Rogue).

2. Why isn't it good?
Firewall, Fireshield, Haste (does it stack with the Rogue enhancement?), Magic Missiles, Blur, Invisibility, and Mel's Acid Arrow all seem pretty decent for what I'm trying to do.

tihocan
09-07-2009, 10:59 PM
2. Why isn't it good?
Firewall, Fireshield, Haste (does it stack with the Rogue enhancement?), Magic Missiles, Blur, Invisibility, and Mel's Acid Arrow all seem pretty decent for what I'm trying to do.
Haste spell stacks with the rogue action boost.
Your damage spells will be weak because of the low caster level and lack of highest tier enhancements to boost them. At high level they won't deal any meaningful damage.
Haste is available in clicky (random and crafted) and pots. Invisibility as well (not sure if you can buy the pots, but it's easy to get clickies). Blur is on DQ raid loot, crafted Shroud gear (and there are also crafted displacement clickies).

Talon_Moonshadow
09-07-2009, 11:26 PM
My first char is now a Rgr9/Rog4/Wiz5 with 2892 favor.

He's a lot of fun to play and does well in all quests.

Don't let people talk you out of playing what you want.

But do consider carefully and understand DDO has many differences from PnP D&D.

Artis_Resistance
09-08-2009, 12:32 AM
Haste spell stacks with the rogue action boost. Good to know.
Your damage spells will be weak because of the low caster level and lack of highest tier enhancements to boost them. At high level they won't deal any meaningful damage.
Pulling and buffs.
Haste is available in clicky (random and crafted) and pots. Invisibility as well (not sure if you can buy the pots, but it's easy to get clickies). Blur is on DQ raid loot, crafted Shroud gear (and there are also crafted displacement clickies). = gold and plat. I'd rather spend it on gear to play my build. What do DQ and Shroud mean?

Honestly, these are the new/free player forums. Layman's terms and such...

tihocan
09-08-2009, 07:32 AM
Honestly, these are the new/free player forums. Layman's terms and such...
Sorry, you're right :)

"Damage spells (...) => pulling and buff": I was talking about damage spells, to which buffs do not belong to. And yes, you can use them for pulling, but you can also shoot an arrow for this.

"Buffs (...) => gold and plat": Correct, this is more expensive, but the fact is at high levels the loot you get in quest gives you significantly more money than what you can spend in consumables (up to a few exceptions for healers on quests that are not well known yet).

DQ = Demon Queen (L12) (the raid is the end of the storyline in the Sands of Menechtarun area).

Shroud = the mod.6 raid (L17) in the Vale of Twilight, which introduced crafting (gathering ingredients in flagging quests and in the raid, then crafting within the raid).

Kriogen
09-08-2009, 07:48 AM
Okay, ....
Rogue1/Ranger14/Wizard5 or Rogue1/Ranger12/Wizard7.

Levelup points into Str.

Artis_Resistance
09-08-2009, 09:38 AM
Why Str?
I'll be using Rogue1/Ranger12/Wizard7.

Thrudh
09-08-2009, 10:00 AM
Your offensive wizard spells will be useless.

True.


Your buffs will be too weak and easily replaced by another caster in the group or consumables and craftable clickies.

Buffs will not be any weaker... Blur is blur, rage is rage, displacement is displacement... However, it is true that they can be replaced by another caster in the group or with craftable items...

I have a 12/5 Ranger/wizard (will probably go 15/5), and I enjoy how self-sufficient he is.. You won't always have another caster in the group... even when there is one, don't count on always being displaced... if you get debuffed, don't count on being rebuffed by the party caster... if the party splits up, you might not be with the caster...

I have found it extremely useful to be able to handle my own spells... haste and displacement are huge power multipliers... A character that is perma-hasted and perma-displaced is very strong...

However, it is possible to craft long-lasting displacement and haste clickables now from the Shroud... This diminishes the power of the wizard splash...


As a result you'll mostly be a ranger, but weaker than if you hadn't taken these wizard levels.

This is barely true... a ranger doesn't get much from levels 16-20... The last favored enemy is about it... It's really not a bad trade-off....


And you'll have to face some serious skepticism when trying to get into some groups.

This is also true, and unfortunate... Most people have gut reactions and can't break down the numbers... Is a 15/5 Ranger/wizard as good as one of the max DPS builds? No way, but if a group would take a pure 20th level ranger along, then there's no reason to not take a 15/5 Ranger/wizard... The power levels are very similar.

Thrudh
09-08-2009, 10:15 AM
I'm mostly building it for solo reasons. Started as a Rogue. Then I'll take a Ranger level, two Wizard levels, 2 Ranger levels, a Wizard level, Ranger, 2x Wizard, 2x Ranger, Wizard, Ranger, Wizard, and the rest as Ranger.

Disarm traps, unlock doors, self-buff, self-heal, non-save DC attack spells, TWF.

I would suggest getting to Ranger 6 fairly quickly... being 12/7/1 at end-game is fine, but you've got to consider the mid-game as well...

Being 4/4/1 at 9th level is pretty worthless...

Ranger 6 gets you two favored enemies, manyshot, Improved Two-weapon fighting, Tempest (remember you need 3 feats for this though), Ram's Might, and an extra spell.

I'd probably get two wizard levels (so you can get 4 minute shield, Exp Retreat, Jump) and then run up to Ranger 6

So at 9, you'd be 6/2/1...

Get the Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack feats by 9...

tihocan
09-08-2009, 11:50 AM
Buffs will not be any weaker... (...)
This is barely true... a ranger doesn't get much from levels 16-20... The last favored enemy is about it... It's really not a bad trade-off....
When talking about weak buffs I had in mind short duration mostly, and also the low amount of protection from elemental resists/prots.
Ranger 18 gets an extra attack from Tempest III, which is pretty cool.

Thrudh
09-08-2009, 11:53 AM
Ranger 18 gets an extra attack from Tempest III, which is pretty cool.

Good point... That is substantial... I forgot about that...

Kriogen
09-08-2009, 12:35 PM
When talking about weak buffs I had in mind short duration mostly, and also the low amount of protection from elemental resists/prots.
Ranger 18 gets an extra attack from Tempest III, which is pretty cool.
Ranger part gets resist and prot.

Rydin_Dirtay
09-08-2009, 02:00 PM
True.
a ranger doesn't get much from levels 16-20...

Thrudh when does the Tempest III kick in? Not at level 18 I assume?
You can get Tempest III before level 18? If so, great!

The only thing that concerns me about 15 Ranger/5 Wizard is the hit to the BAB. In your opinion, will this hurt the BAB to the point that the build is not melee effective?

That's why I built a 19 Ranger/1 Wiz fun build in the planner last night.

Now, I plan to kill this thread with a long post :)

@ Original Poster

Someone has ESP or something here. Just the other day I made three versions of an Elf Ranger/Wiz with dragonmarks just for fun to see how it worked out.

The major difference between what you are doing, and what I am doing, is the dragonmarks. Yes, I know Invis is easily obtainable, Yes I know displacement is too. Not the point. I have 11 other "all business" toons. This one is for flavor. And he'll have respectable DPS and will strike from the mist and murk...

Elf 19 Ranger/1 Wizard

32-pointer, from memory (not at home right now)

STR 16 <-- all levelups here
DEX 17
CON 12 <-- I dislike 12 on melee's. may try to pull 14 in a later version, or with +2 tome
INT 12
WIS 10 <-- may drop it to 8 in later version, but I've run a Rgr before and like 10
CHA 12 <-- for flavor, may drop it to 8 in later version

I didn't want to blow any tomes on this build so I just played it straight up.
The CON is lower than I'd like but, when played with skill + the right gear, will be workable. This will not be in the trenches melee anyway.

DEX is set to go to 26 at least, but maybe more. I do not (will not) want to go robes and mine is a STR build.

Skills
Move Silenty, Hide, Spot, Search, all maxxed. Concentration probably maxxed to, can't remember and not at home
Jump quite a few points here

Feats
1 Ranger: Least Dragonmark of Shadow
1 Ranger: Favored Enemy: Undead
2 Wizard: Extend
3 Ranger: Dodge
6 Ranger: Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow
9 Ranger: Mobility
11 rangr: Favored Enemy: Giant/Evil Outsider/whatever
12 Rangr: Spring Attack <----- Tempest I kicks in here
15 Rangr: Toughness
18 Rangr: IC: Slash (or maybe something else)

And another favored enemy in the above somewhere

Enhancements

Tempest I, II, and III
Elven Arcanum I
Favored Enemy Attack maxxed
Favored Enemy Damage maxxed
Extra Dragonmarks Maxxed
Elf Melee Damage maxxed
Elf Melee Attack maxxed
Elven Arcane Fluidity I, II, and III
Ranger Dex I
Elf Dex I, II
Elven Enchantment Resistance I, II, III
+a few more I can't remember

Anyway since you were talking about Ranger/Wizards I thought I would post what I built, although it has the dragonmark difference.

Thrudh
09-08-2009, 02:03 PM
The only thing that concerns me about 15 Ranger/5 Wizard is the hit to the BAB. In your opinion, will this hurt the BAB to the point that the build is not melee effective?

At 11/5, I never had a problem hitting anything... You're only sitting at -3 to hit after all

Thrudh
09-08-2009, 02:07 PM
That's why I built a 19 Ranger/1 Wiz fun build in the planner last night.

It's a nice build... What do you get at 19 Ranger though? (You were correct about Tempest III at 18)

I'd consider:

18/2 Ranger/wizard (longer spells, +1 INT enhancement - allows you to start with an 8 INT and a +2 tome)

18/1/1 Ranger/wizard/monk (AC and feat)

18/1/1 Ranger/wizard/rogue (UMD, sneak attack)

SquelchHU
09-08-2009, 02:09 PM
I haven't seen this one answered yet. Pulling is where you use a ranged attack of any kind to get one enemy's attention, or a small group. If you moved into melee range you might have to fight them all at once, so pulling is an effective tactic to divide and conquer.

Thrudh
09-08-2009, 02:11 PM
Actually, I should ask... why is this a "fun" build? what's "fun" about 1 level of wizard on a Tempest III ranger? Shield spell is worthless... Ranger jump is better... 30% striders are easy to find... Exactly what 1st level wizard spell makes this more "fun" than a 20 ranger?

Unless you just want to play with arcane archer... but you can get that without the wizard splash can't you? (just take mental Toughness as a feat)

WolfSpirit
09-08-2009, 02:40 PM
I think that they are trying to let you know that your buffs pale later on, and the damage of 2 Magic Missiles after lv 6 or 7 is going to be no more than an annoyance to monsters.
Case in point:
Your Haste=30 seconds
Lv 16 Haste=3+ Minutes extended.
Your Blur=3-5 Minutes
Lv 16 Blur=15-30 minutes

I can see the Wizard if your WF, but then again, the rogue levels get your UMD and a Critical Repair Wand will heal more than your hightest level repair spell.

So your character is prob doing awesome for you now... But you may start to feel left behind later in the game. you can still build interesting and very useful characters, just try to get class mixes that blend with each other nicely. Like 2 Classes that use the same ability scores. Like Rogue 2 /Wizard 18 or Bardic1/ Sorc 19 etc. Just plan out everything you can with your character so you don't end up feeling like you should reroll (If it came to it) at lv 14 or so. Believe me! I've been there AND done that, it sucked!

Thrudh
09-08-2009, 02:43 PM
I think that they are trying to let you know that your buffs pale later on, and the damage of 2 Magic Missiles after lv 6 or 7 is going to be no more than an annoyance to monsters.
Case in point:
Your Haste=30 seconds
Lv 16 Haste=3+ Minutes extended.
Your Blur=3-5 Minutes
Lv 16 Blur=15-30 minutes


Just note that wizards get free feats at level 1 and 5, so anyone who splashes wizard for buffs will definitely have Extend

So 1 minute Haste and Displacement
And 10 minute blur, shield, jump, etc.

Rydin_Dirtay
09-08-2009, 03:25 PM
It's a nice build... What do you get at 19 Ranger though? (You were correct about Tempest III at 18)

I'd consider:

18/2 Ranger/wizard (longer spells, +1 INT enhancement - allows you to start with an 8 INT and a +2 tome)

18/1/1 Ranger/wizard/monk (AC and feat)

18/1/1 Ranger/wizard/rogue (UMD, sneak attack)

You are right, what DO you get for 19 ranger.

18 Ranger/1 Wiz/1 Rogue and 18 Ranger/1 Wiz/1 Monk are ones to look at.

Starting with 8 INT and a +2 tome is of course do-able but in my case I did not want to put any tomes into this one, but you know, it sure would free up some points, points that would be nice in CON.

Rydin_Dirtay
09-08-2009, 03:34 PM
Actually, I should ask... why is this a "fun" build? what's "fun" about 1 level of wizard on a Tempest III ranger? Shield spell is worthless... Ranger jump is better... 30% striders are easy to find... Exactly what 1st level wizard spell makes this more "fun" than a 20 ranger?

Unless you just want to play with arcane archer... but you can get that without the wizard splash can't you? (just take mental Toughness as a feat)


Since you said 11/5 could hit things, that sort of changes my picture on these types of builds.

With 20 levels to play with, it does make 15/5 pretty nice.

What I am working on vs. the OP's build is different though, I won't clutter his thread too much about it. But thanks Thrudh your points are appreciated--ironic that I find a current thread with a similar build. Safe to say I am going to look hard at 15/5 with the elf dragonmark. Despite the fact that one can get disp scrolls, haste etc., I have been wanting to build a ftr/wiz or ranger/wiz with the elf dragonmark for a year now, might as well do it.

kingfisher
09-08-2009, 03:39 PM
thumbs up!

oh and wf 12wiz/6ranger/2monk ftw!

Kriogen
09-08-2009, 03:56 PM
...
That's why I built a 19 Ranger/1 Wiz fun build in the planner last night.
..
Did that, Ranger14/Wizard1/Rogue1. Wizard1 is no good. Because of extra metamagic feat and extra mana handy at low levels, but advantage fades away at higher levels. Just Wiz1 is not enough, Wiz5 is minimum.

Rydin_Dirtay
09-08-2009, 04:51 PM
Did that, Ranger14/Wizard1/Rogue1. Wizard1 is no good. Because of extra metamagic feat and extra mana handy at low levels, but advantage fades away at higher levels. Just Wiz1 is not enough, Wiz5 is minimum.

Wiz1 also gives Extend, for the Dragonmark. Wiz1 is not so useless for an elf Dragonmarked build--but I agree, Wiz5 is certainly much more in keeping with what's needed in my particular build. Now, back to the OP's build...

Talon_Moonshadow
09-08-2009, 11:43 PM
Actually, I should ask... why is this a "fun" build? what's "fun" about 1 level of wizard on a Tempest III ranger? Shield spell is worthless... Ranger jump is better... 30% striders are easy to find... Exactly what 1st level wizard spell makes this more "fun" than a 20 ranger?

Unless you just want to play with arcane archer... but you can get that without the wizard splash can't you? (just take mental Toughness as a feat)

Now, what did I tell you about those Displaced Halfling? :D

I have a WF Rgr11/Wiz1 who is a lot of fun. Arcane Archer, Repair wands, Stoneskin wands, flame arrow wands. 2 Min Shield spell. Extend spell feat for all his buffs.

But had I known about the capstone when I took that lvl of Wiz I might have reconsidered.

Looks like Thrudh did a good job defending the Rgr/Wiz buiild.

I'll restate a few things. My build at 16 hits as good as a Rog or Cleric. By 20 he'll hit better.
I miss occasionally, but it's really only a problem on the highest AC mobs. Which has not been raid bosses yet in my experiance. And if you do have a problem, carry Divine Power clickies. I have them, but rarely (if ever) need them.

Actually all I use them for is to get the extra arrow from manyshot.
But I also attack from behind alot and try to get my Sneak Attack bonuses as often as I can.

The Elf Dragon marks are very nice.
And that is certainly a valid option.
I have an up and coming pure Rgr who has the displacement dragon mark and I'm maxing out his UMD.

But I have been having a blast with my Rgr/Rog/Wiz in the new content.
Having Displacement on tap ahould not be underestimated. I'm using it more now then ever before. I think I'm up to 621SP now, and shrining every chance I get.
(you get extra SP from both Wis and Int in this build)
I'm also blowing through a ton of Stoneskin wands.
And I've used the Invisibilty then drop to sneak mode trick a lot lately too. it seems to work partially even if you have agro now.

There's certainly other ways to get the same buffs. But getting them when you want from another party member is rare in my experiance.

tihocan
09-09-2009, 09:00 AM
Ranger part gets resist and prot.
Good point, lol, I was so focused on discussing wizard spells I forgot about that :rolleyes:

Artis_Resistance
09-09-2009, 11:54 PM
Ram's Might + Bull's Strength make a Str based build obsolete. Effectively +5 damage and +3 chance to hit. That's VERY good.

I really think a Rog1/Ran12/Wiz7 is a good idea. Great buffs, nice damage, back-up/self heals.

Now, if my router wasn't being an ass, I could connect to the game.

Angelus_dead
09-10-2009, 04:57 AM
Ram's Might + Bull's Strength make a Str based build obsolete. Effectively +5 damage and +3 chance to hit. That's VERY good.
That is completely wrong, and also demonstrates that you don't have nearly enough knowledge of the game rules to make pronouncements as to what might or might not be obsolete.

For one thing, Bull's Strength doesn't stack with the standard-issue strength items, so to even mention Bull's Strength is a red flag.

For another, Ram's Might is actually an argument in favor of strength builds, because it provides an attack bonus to strength characters, but none to finesse warriors.

And then there's the whole khopesh thing...

Artis_Resistance
09-10-2009, 05:10 AM
That is completely wrong, and also demonstrates that you don't have nearly enough knowledge of the game rules to make pronouncements as to what might or might not be obsolete.

Well, certainly not DDO. But I'll have you know I've played PnP for almost half my life. Perhaps obsolete was a bad word choice, but my point stands. Adding Wizard levels benefits a Ranger.


For one thing, Bull's Strength doesn't stack with the standard-issue strength items, so to even mention Bull's Strength is a red flag.

Ram's Might is not an item. Regardless, the +2 to damage WILL stack with Bull's Strength. Is there really a big difference of +4 to +5 damage?


For another, Ram's Might is actually an argument in favor of strength builds, because it provides an attack bonus to strength characters, but none to finesse warriors.

Where did I say I was thinking about a finesse build? When I said I'd rather not put points upon level up into Str, I was thinking Con. I'll get decent Dex out of Elf and Ranger enhancements. Thank you very much. Keeps me protected when I don't have Blur/Displacement up.


And then there's the whole khopesh thing...

So?

Kriogen
09-10-2009, 05:44 AM
...Ram's Might is not an item. Regardless, the +2 to damage WILL stack with Bull's Strength. Is there really a big difference of +4 to +5 damage?

I think AD is trying to tell you that Bulls Strength spell is kinda pointless in DDO, because very quickly you will have +6 Str item. Bulls is just +4, item will be +6. And they don't stack.
+6 items are everywhere in DDO and dirt cheap.



Where did I say I was thinking about a finesse build? When I said I'd rather not put points upon level up into Str, I was thinking Con. I'll get decent Dex out of Elf and Ranger enhancements. Thank you very much. Keeps me protected when I don't have Blur/Displacement up.
Not Con.

Stats in your first post are perfect. Don't touch that.

At level up (in DDO), it's best to put all points into a single attribute. This goes for all builds.
In your case, as build is "warrior with buffs/utility", it would be wise to go Str.

Noone puts levelup points into Con. Con is important, but not so important to "waste" levelup points. All go for: solid start, then get all HP/Con items you can get. All do this, because it works. It's not some 'ebil powergamer rule', it's just that its 'optimal', 'good enough', etc...

General rule for Con is: 6 build points at creation. Less is not recomended, more is a waste.
As Elf, thats Con 12, Dwarf/WF would have 16, Human 14. It's a nice number that works in all cases.

Well, Str because it gives you more damage in melee and with bow, plus as you said Elf/Rng combo will give you more then enough Dex. Thats true.
You're not really a Wizard so no need for Int, not a Cleric, no need for more Wis, deffo not a Sorc/bard, Con is good, but starting 12 is Good Enough, so the only thing left is Str.

Artis_Resistance
09-10-2009, 05:58 AM
I think AD is trying to tell you that Bulls Strength spell is kinda pointless in DDO, because very quickly you will have +6 Str item. Bulls is just +4, item will be +6. And they don't stack.
+6 items are everywhere in DDO and dirt cheap.


Not Con.

Stats in your first post are perfect. Don't touch that.

At level up (in DDO), it's best to put all points into a single attribute. This goes for all builds.
In your case, as build is "warrior with buffs/utility", it would be wise to go Str.

Noone puts levelup points into Con. Con is important, but not so important to "waste" levelup points. All go for: solid start, then get all HP/Con items you can get. All do this, because it works. It's not some 'ebil powergamer rule', it's just that its 'optimal', 'good enough', etc...

General rule for Con is: 6 build points at creation. Less is not recomended, more is a waste.
As Elf, thats Con 12, Dwarf/WF would have 16, Human 14. It's a nice number that works in all cases.

Well, Str because it gives you more damage in melee and with bow, plus as you said Elf/Rng combo will give you more then enough Dex. Thats true.
You're not really a Wizard so no need for Int, not a Cleric, no need for more Wis, deffo not a Sorc/bard, Con is good, but starting 12 is Good Enough, so the only thing left is Str.

I can save money by using BS and RM. Aside from that, I agree with everything in this post.

Artis_Resistance
09-15-2009, 04:19 PM
Okay, I think I've got everything figured out.

Some things to remember:

1. Ability raises at level up are not set in stone. Currently, I like the way they worked out, but its obviously gear dependent. I know for a fact I'll need to raise Wisdom at least 1 point with an item or ability raise. Items are better. Main stats are Str and Con. Dex is third. Int fourth. Wis fifth (only need 1 extra point). And Cha is worthless in this build.

2. The character builder doesn't have the proper spell listings (some are missing and it should be obvious I'm going for all the acid spells and various buffs). Nor does it take Ranger spells into account. EDIT: Apparently it does take into account Ranger spells, but they don't show up on the interface.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Silvius Bloodmoon
Level 20 Chaotic Neutral Elf Male
(1 Rogue \ 12 Ranger \ 7 Wizard)
Hit Points: 232
Spell Points: 678
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 12
Reflex: 18
Will: 10

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 14 16 16
Dexterity 16 17 22
Constitution 12 14 14
Intelligence 14 14 14
Wisdom 12 12 12
Charisma 8 8 8

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance 7 11 11
Bluff -1 -1 -1
Concentration 1 14 14
Diplomacy -1 -1 -1
Disable Device 6 17 17
Haggle -1 -1 -1
Heal 1 1 1
Hide 6 16 16
Intimidate -1 -1 -1
Jump 5 12 12
Listen 4 5 7
Move Silently 6 16 16
Open Lock 7 21 21
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair 2 2 2
Search 6 16 18
Spot 5 15 17
Swim 2 3 3
Tumble 7 10 10
Use Magic Device 3 13 13

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Hide (+3)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Skill: Listen (+3)
Skill: Move Silently (+3)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Elven Keen Senses
Feat: (Automatic) Enchantment Save Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Immunity to Sleep
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longbow
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage I


Level 2 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Automatic) Bow Strength
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Feat: (Automatic) Wild Empathy
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Fluidity I


Level 3 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Mobility
Feat: (Automatic) Rapid Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I


Level 4 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
Feat: (Automatic) Inscribe Scroll
Feat: (Automatic) Magical Training
Spell (1): Chill Touch
Spell (1): Magic Missle
Spell (1): Niac's Cold Ray
Spell (1): Shocking Grasp
Spell (1): Shield
Spell (1): Merfolk's Blessing
Enhancement: Elven Arcanum I
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy Manipulation I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I


Level 5 (Wizard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Spell (1): Acid Spray
Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat
Enhancement: Elven Arcanum II


Level 6 (Wizard)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
Spell (2): Bull's Strength
Spell (2): Melf's Acid Arrow
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Fluidity II


Level 7 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Diehard
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage II


Level 8 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: CON
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (1): Camouflage
Spell (1): Jump
Spell (1): Longstrider
Spell (1): Ram's Might
Spell (1): Resist Energy
Spell (1): Summon Nature's Ally I
Spell (1): Tumble
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II


Level 9 (Wizard)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
Spell (2): Blur
Spell (2): Invisibility
Enhancement: Elven Arcanum III
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Energy I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy Manipulation II


Level 10 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Monstrous Humanoid
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Fluidity III


Level 11 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Manyshot
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I


Level 12 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: CON
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Quicken Spell
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Spell (3): Haste
Spell (3): Displacement
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack II


Level 13 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Wild Empathy
Enhancement: Elven Arcanum IV


Level 14 (Wizard)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Spell (3): Lightning Bolt
Spell (3): Chain Missiles
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II


Level 15 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Spell (4): Wall of Fire
Spell (4): Acid Rain
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Energy I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy Manipulation III


Level 16 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Spell (2): Barkskin
Spell (2): Bear's Endurance
Spell (2): Cat's Grace
Spell (2): Cure Light Wounds
Spell (2): Hold Animal
Spell (2): Mass Camouflage
Spell (2): Owl's Wisdom
Spell (2): Protection From Energy
Spell (2): Snare
Spell (2): Spike Growth
Spell (2): Summon Nature's Ally II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Energy II


Level 17 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II


Level 18 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Aberration
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I


Level 19 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Precise Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Precise Shot
Spell (3): Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (3): Neutralize Poison
Spell (3): Remove Disease
Spell (3): Summon Nature's Ally III
Spell (3): Wild Instincts
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity III


Level 20 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Hide (+3)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+3)
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest II
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion I
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion II




Feedback is always appreciated.

Arianrhod
09-15-2009, 04:36 PM
I can save money by using BS and RM. Aside from that, I agree with everything in this post.

See, the thing is, any item that's readily available (such as +6 stat items) will be assumed to be standard gear by the developers in quest design.

Now, I don't want to try to dissuade anyone from playing the kind of character they want just for fun, but try to keep in mind - the "DM" in this game only has so much leeway in designing quests to keep both the rabid powergamer and the casual roleplayer happy - basically, if +6 items are considered standard gear by the people designing the quests, +4 buffs are going to be hard-pressed to adequately substitute (besides, I've heard that most of the higher level quest have things that dispel your buffs, making items almost a necessity).

Build your character the way you want, and have fun with it. But do keep in mind, as the very first response warned you - you've chosen a hard road, and may find it frustrating before you get to the end of it ;)

Artis_Resistance
09-15-2009, 04:51 PM
The only +6 items I think I'll need are for Str and Con. Dex gets capped due to armor. Maybe Int, but that really depends on what attack spells I'm using the most (acid based attacks, fire shield, fire wall).

I guess my main concern at this point is the order in which to get enhancements, as that part of D&D is new to me. And even then, I suppose it doesn't matter because I can respect them. The Ranger Devotion enhancements are very important due to how late I'll be getting heal spells.

rimble
09-15-2009, 04:59 PM
The only +6 items I think I'll need are for Str and Con. Dex gets capped due to armor.

That cap is only in regards to your Dexterity bonus to AC. The other things Dexterity affects are never capped: Reflex Save, Ranged ToHit, Various Skills, Melee ToHit (for those using Weapon Finesse)...

enochiancub
09-15-2009, 05:02 PM
Ah, my young Padawan. (an old Elven word meaning apprentice, last used a long time ago, in a forest far, far away.)

You have embarked on a road seldom traveled in Stormreach.
A road few understand, and fewer wish too.

You will face many trials in your path to mastery.
Not the least of which will be discrimination.
People will question your choice, they will brand you a witch, an outcast.
Are you prepared for these difficulties my child?

You will have to make many decisions along the way.
How will you divide your studies? How many Wizard lvls do you intend to take?
How much investment in Int?

I myself chose to not invest heavily in Int, and to use my arcane talents for buffs.
Most notably, Haste and Displacement. Displacement remains very valuable in the Devil Battlefield.

I also chose the path of shadow....of stealth. I see you have not.
I urge you to reconsider that choice. Others will tell you that it is useless, but I find more and more uses for it everyday. Invisibility in particular is also of great use when battleling the Devils on their home plane.

As far as lvling up, there are several ways to go about it.
You need to look closely at the compendium and decide what is the most important to you to gain first.
I suggest taking Rgr2 next. For TWF and Rapid Shot.
After that the choice is harder.

Your Wiz offensive spells will be of some use at low lvls if you choose to take more Wiz lvls soon.

Or you can hurry along to the path of the Tempest.
Rg6 gives very nice abilities.

And Rgr 9 gives evasion. The best feat in the game IMO.

Just look closely at the compendium cha charts to see what you will gain at each lvl and make a choice that suites your desires.

I will leave you with the following words of wisdom:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=195506

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=189167

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=187340

(And beware of Displaced Halflings bearing gifts.)

^ This

You rock, you are awesome, and thank you for giving this person advice instead of flaming them for what could be a very fun, albiet tedious, road to glory.

Artis_Resistance
09-15-2009, 05:17 PM
That cap is only in regards to your Dexterity bonus to AC. The other things Dexterity affects are never capped: Reflex Save, Ranged ToHit, Various Skills, Melee ToHit (for those using Weapon Finesse)...

Okay.

Are +6 items all the same type, or can I wear them in different slots? Such as +Str on wrists/hands, +Int on head, and +Dex on feet.

rimble
09-15-2009, 05:24 PM
Okay.

Are +6 items all the same type, or can I wear them in different slots? Such as +Str on wrists/hands, +Int on head, and +Dex on feet.

They have affinities for certain slots...you can get any of them on rings. But then Str shows up on Bracers, Gloves, or Belts. Dexterity on Gloves or Boots, and so on. Not sure if I could give a comprehensive list. Some named items might break this trend, and you can craft things outside the norm too.

Talon_Moonshadow
09-15-2009, 05:49 PM
They have affinities for certain slots...you can get any of them on rings. But then Str shows up on Bracers, Gloves, or Belts. Dexterity on Gloves or Boots, and so on. Not sure if I could give a comprehensive list. Some named items might break this trend, and you can craft things outside the norm too.

Yeah, some ability items are more common on some tyoes of items. Like you said.

I have Str bracers, Gloves, Rings, and Belts.
Con rings, Necklaces, Belts
Dex Rings, gloves, Boots
Int Helms, Goggles (do these glasses make me look more intelligent?) Rings.
Wisdom, Necklaces, Rings, helms
Cha, Helms, Rings, and cloaks are common

Named items can be just about anything the designer wanted it to be.
There are forum posts about static loot with named items.
(For instance, I have the named cloak from the Reaver raid which has +6 Int on it)

Artis_Resistance
09-15-2009, 05:57 PM
Well, I do know it would be absolutely pointless for me to boost my Cha. The only thing it would benefit I can think of offhand is UMD.

Arianrhod
09-15-2009, 06:18 PM
Well, I do know it would be absolutely pointless for me to boost my Cha. The only thing it would benefit I can think of offhand is UMD.

UMD and Animal Empathy. But, yeah. Not an item you'd keep on at all times, just something to equip when you specifically needed to hit a UMD target DC.

Artis_Resistance
09-15-2009, 06:41 PM
Animal Empathy? Is there anywhere in this game its really useful?

Arianrhod
09-15-2009, 06:51 PM
Animal Empathy? Is there anywhere in this game its really useful?

I wouldn't go so far as to say "really useful", but you can have some fun with it, for instance soloing some of the higher level outdoor zones - charming razorcats in Ataraxia's Haven, rats in the Orchard, that sort of thing :)

Talon_Moonshadow
09-15-2009, 06:55 PM
I wouldn't go so far as to say "really useful", but you can have some fun with it, for instance soloing some of the higher level outdoor zones - charming razorcats in Ataraxia's Haven, rats in the Orchard, that sort of thing :)

Good answer.

it also seems to work through most barriers, which has a couple nice applications.
(Tomb of the Tormented)

And those animals have such a powerful trip it's so nice to use it against other monsters.

(someday I'll make a high Cha ranger and take (air) Elemental empathy. :eek: )

Artis_Resistance
09-15-2009, 06:56 PM
That might be kind of fun.

My goal with the current build is to be a kind of DPS toolbox. I can do a bit of everything, but my strongest suit is melee combat.

Artis_Resistance
09-15-2009, 07:59 PM
After thinking about it, I can't do anything about the 1 point in DEX. It'll be fine because I'll be getting +6 from an item and +5 from enhancements. That's +12 Dex total.

+4 points into Strength and a +6 item is +10 Str total.

That's a decent fighting machine right there. I think I'm going to do some more thinking and play around with the character builder some more.

Gregen
09-15-2009, 08:00 PM
Okay probably a noob question, but I'm not afraid to admit I'm a bit of a noob to this game. What exactly would make a wizranger weak with magic attacks? I haven't seen any magical weapons yet. I figured it would be cool if you were fighting with a bow and maybe need to fire off a powerful magic attack. Plus, flame arrow, if I'm not mistaken, would be useful for creating more powerful arrows.

Angelus_dead
09-15-2009, 08:21 PM
Okay probably a noob question, but I'm not afraid to admit I'm a bit of a noob to this game. What exactly would make a wizranger weak with magic attacks?
Having ranger levels means his wizard levels can't be as high, so his wizardly power to cast magic spells is lower.


Plus, flame arrow, if I'm not mistaken, would be useful for creating more powerful arrows.
It doesn't take class levels to use Flame Arrow.

Gregen
09-15-2009, 08:51 PM
Having ranger levels means his wizard levels can't be as high, so his wizardly power to cast magic spells is lower.

Can you level them separately or..?

Artis_Resistance
09-15-2009, 09:04 PM
I think this version is a lot better. Better mid-game melee capabilities.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Silvius Bloodmoon
Level 20 Chaotic Neutral Elf Male
(1 Rogue \ 12 Ranger \ 7 Wizard)
Hit Points: 212
Spell Points: 783
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 18
Will: 10

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 14 18 18
Dexterity 16 17 22
Constitution 12 12 12
Intelligence 14 14 14
Wisdom 12 12 12
Charisma 8 8 8

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance 7 11 11
Bluff -1 -1 -1
Concentration 1 7 7
Diplomacy -1 -1 -1
Disable Device 6 20 20
Haggle -1 -1 -1
Heal 1 1 1
Hide 6 16 16
Intimidate -1 -1 -1
Jump 5 16 16
Listen 4 6 8
Move Silently 6 16 16
Open Lock 7 22 22
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair 2 2 2
Search 6 16 18
Spot 5 16 18
Swim 2 4 4
Tumble 7 10 10
Use Magic Device 3 9 9

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Hide (+3)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Skill: Listen (+3)
Skill: Move Silently (+3)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Elven Keen Senses
Feat: (Automatic) Enchantment Save Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Immunity to Sleep
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longbow
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage I


Level 2 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Automatic) Bow Strength
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Feat: (Automatic) Wild Empathy
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Fluidity I


Level 3 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Mobility
Feat: (Automatic) Rapid Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I


Level 4 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
Feat: (Automatic) Inscribe Scroll
Feat: (Automatic) Magical Training
Enhancement: Elven Arcanum I
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy Manipulation I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I


Level 5 (Wizard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Enhancement: Elven Arcanum II


Level 6 (Wizard)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Fluidity II


Level 7 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Diehard
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Damage II


Level 8 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II


Level 9 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Monstrous Humanoid
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion I
Enhancement: Ranger Devotion II


Level 10 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Manyshot
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf Melee Attack II
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I


Level 11 (Wizard)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Enhancement: Elven Arcanum III


Level 12 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Quicken Spell
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Fluidity III


Level 13 (Wizard)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Elven Arcanum IV


Level 14 (Wizard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Energy I
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Energy II
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Energy I


Level 15 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Wild Empathy
Enhancement: Wizard Energy Manipulation II


Level 16 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II


Level 17 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
Enhancement: Wizard Energy Manipulation III


Level 18 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Aberration
Feat: (Selected) Improved Mental Toughness
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity III


Level 19 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Precise Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Precise Shot
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II


Level 20 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest II
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I




@Gregen: Have you looked at the Arcane Archer class?

Arianrhod
09-15-2009, 09:57 PM
Can you level them separately or..?

Each level you take in any class counts toward your total character levels. You can be a 20 wizard, a 20 ranger, or a 10/10 ranger/wizard (or any other combination totaling 20 class levels in all), but not a 20/20 ranger/wizard. So a 20th level character with a few wizard levels and a few ranger levels isn't going to be as good at spellcasting as a 20th level wizard, or as good at nonmagical attacks as a 20th level ranger. Every level you take in one class reduces the total number you can take in another.

Gregen
09-15-2009, 09:58 PM
@Gregen: Have you looked at the Arcane Archer class?

Yeah, what about it? I chose custom class but used Arcane Archer build.
I'm still trying to figure out this multiclass thing. Everything about this game seems so complicated right now. I can't even figure out the leveling system.

Gregen
09-15-2009, 10:02 PM
Each level you take in any class counts toward your total character levels. You can be a 20 wizard, a 20 ranger, or a 10/10 ranger/wizard (or any other combination totaling 20 class levels in all), but not a 20/20 ranger/wizard. So a 20th level character with a few wizard levels and a few ranger levels isn't going to be as good at spellcasting as a 20th level wizard, or as good at nonmagical attacks as a 20th level ranger. Every level you take in one class reduces the total number you can take in another.

Okay, so I'm basically gimping myself trying to multiclass these two? Maybe I'll try ranger/fighter.

I honestly don't get it, it looks so cryptic to me. But I'll take your word for it.

Xyfiel
09-15-2009, 10:12 PM
Good answer.

it also seems to work through most barriers, which has a couple nice applications.
(Tomb of the Tormented)

And those animals have such a powerful trip it's so nice to use it against other monsters.

(someday I'll make a high Cha ranger and take (air) Elemental empathy. :eek: )

I have elemental and vermin empathy. It doesn't charm, only mesmerize. Better then hypno and such because it doesn't break on damage, but lower then charm of course.

Can also be useful for messing named scorps and eles. Hmm when I get back in game in Oct I should try it on Roch.

Xyfiel
09-15-2009, 10:18 PM
Okay, so I'm basically gimping myself trying to multiclass these two? Maybe I'll try ranger/fighter.

I honestly don't get it, it looks so cryptic to me. But I'll take your word for it.

You start the game at level 1. When you reach a certain amount of xp, you can go to a trainer to become level 2. This is the same for all levels 2-20. What class you level in is dependant on which trainer you go to. Some will not be an option due to alignment restrictions. Max level is 20, consisting of all class levels. You can have 20 levels of one class or a combination of up to 3 classes whose sum is 20.

20 Ranger
20 Wizard
10 Ranger/10 Wizard
12 Ranger/7wizard/1rogue

All of these are possible, they all add up to 20.

10 barbarian/10monk
10 bard/10paladin

These are not possible due to alignment conflicts. Bards and barbs cannot be lawful, while Monks and paladins have to be lawful(lawful good for paladin).

Talon_Moonshadow
09-15-2009, 11:40 PM
Okay probably a noob question, but I'm not afraid to admit I'm a bit of a noob to this game. What exactly would make a wizranger weak with magic attacks? I haven't seen any magical weapons yet. I figured it would be cool if you were fighting with a bow and maybe need to fire off a powerful magic attack. Plus, flame arrow, if I'm not mistaken, would be useful for creating more powerful arrows.

Your caster lvl will always be lowe than it would be for a single classed Wizard.

Lets say at lvl 10 you are a Rgr5/Wiz5.
You will cast all wiz spells as if you are a lvl 5 wizard.

For spells that do dmage depending on lvl you will do less damage.
Your fireballs will do only 5d6 damage, instead of 10d6 that a lvl 10 Wiz would cast.

Saving throws that monsters have to make to save against your spells are not based on caster lvl (sort of).
Save DC for spells is 10+spell lvl+Int modifyer.
So a Hypnotism spell from a wiz with a 18 Int would have a save of 10+1+4 or 15.
This is the same for a lvl 5 Wiz or lvl 10 wiz. But it's not that simple.

The lvl 10Wiz probably has a higher Int than you do.
He has only one imprtant stat to worry about...his Int.
While you have Str, Dex, Con, Int, and even Wisdom to worry about.

Then there are Action Points in DDO.
Multi-classed chars lose out on the higher lvl enhancemtns in DDO.
Those enhancements add to spell damage and add to Int for a wizard.
Making a multi-classed wiz even further behind.

And then there is the heighten spell feat.
This allows you to cast a lower lvl spell as if it is the highest lvl spell you can cast for saving throw purposes.
For the Wiz 5 you can only heighten a lvl1 spell to equal a lvl 3 spell since that is the higfhest lvl spell you can cast. But a lvl 10 Woz can heighten the same lvl 1 spell to be equal to a lvl 5 spell. For a higher spell save DC.
And it gets worse the higher you progress.

Actually at low lvls your multi-classed build can indeed use offensive spells effectively.
But it drops off quickly as you lvl up.

Then there is spell resistance. which is totally based on caster lvl. Most monsters do not have spell resistance, but just about all of the high lvl monsters do.

For those reasons I recommend most multi-classed wizards use their spells for buffs instead of offensive casting.

Although there are a few spells that can be effective.
And there are ways to build a char that could use certain spells effectively at higher lvls.

(Although the highest lvl dungeons right now are tough for even a pure caster)

Artis_Resistance
09-16-2009, 06:25 AM
The thing I like most about the build I'm going for is Tempest I, Rogue Haste, and the spell Haste. Combined with defensive buffs and fireshield I think it'll make for a nice melee killing machine.

Is there a link to how UMD breaks down? I'm wondering if I put enough ranks into it.

dbrowdy
09-16-2009, 09:30 AM
Hey I just wanted to pop in here and say thanks for this thread. While I have no intention of playing this build, it's nice to read the theory behind the choices in the build. I like having nice noobie templates available, but they don't really explain how or why they do things. The theorycrafting in this thread really helps me with all builds.

So yeah, thanks. :)

Angelus_dead
09-16-2009, 10:53 AM
The thing I like most about the build I'm going for is Tempest I, Rogue Haste, and the spell Haste. Combined with defensive buffs and fireshield I think it'll make for a nice melee killing machine.
It doesn't take arcane levels to get Hasted. Are you thinking about playing alone or in groups?
1. Solo: Not much self-healing ability, relies on CSW wands or UMD.
2. Group: self-buffs are mostly pointless, because a real caster provides better ones.

Note that a WF sor18/pal2 would possibly be better in melee (dependent on DP clickies) and would have close to full spellcasting effectiveness.


Is there a link to how UMD breaks down? I'm wondering if I put enough ranks into it.
It's pretty all or nothing. To ask that question suggests you probably don't have enough UMD ranks (unless you're a charisma class).

Artis_Resistance
09-16-2009, 11:27 AM
I'm mostly a solo player. However, if I'm in a group, I tend to function like a toolbox with a focus on fast, deadly melee combat.

Rydin_Dirtay
09-16-2009, 01:08 PM
The Elf Dragon marks are very nice.
And that is certainly a valid option.
I have an up and coming pure Rgr who has the displacement dragon mark and I'm maxing out his UMD.

I've been running a couple of these thru the planner, and I cannot figure out how to get meaningful UMD on a pure Ranger build. How do you do it? To me, "meaningful" is reliable Stoneskin, Heal, etc. usage, isn't that reasonable?

I see 21 UMD at level 20, plus CHA of, lets say 20 = +6 bonus = 27 UMD. Then add in Cartouche +3 more, 30 UMD
Then...what else...well, maybe shroud CHA item...ok, maybe you could get it up there...but that is at endgame.

For Heal scrolls, Stoneskin, etc. doesn't that leave quite a large failure % until you get the uber gear?

Thrudh
09-16-2009, 01:24 PM
It doesn't take arcane levels to get Hasted. Are you thinking about playing alone or in groups?
1. Solo: Not much self-healing ability, relies on CSW wands or UMD.
2. Group: self-buffs are mostly pointless, because a real caster provides better ones.


Just an FYI...


Not every group has a caster
Sometimes the party has to split up, and you might not be with the caster
Not every caster will buff you
If you get debuffed in the middle of combat, you're likely not going to get fully rebuffed by the caster


That said, haste is one of those buffs that pretty much every caster will throw at you... so being able to self-haste isn't worth as much as self-displacement. Although it is very nice when soloing or in a group without a caster...

The biggest problem with the wizard splash nowadays is Shroud gear... You can make long-lasting Haste and Displacement clickables, which can mostly replace the advantage of splashing wizard...

However! For a new player, Shroud crafting for extra clickables is a LONG way off... First you have to level that high, and then your first half-dozen Shroud items are all going to be weapons or hp or sp items... Crafting multiple displacement clickables is not something you'll be doing anytime soon...

I played a 11/5 ranger/wizard for a LONG time and throughly enjoyed it... Great solo power, always self-sufficient, able to take any group and finish the quest... even without a caster... I'd handle haste and displacement for the group by myself.

Thrudh
09-16-2009, 01:30 PM
For Heal scrolls, Stoneskin, etc. doesn't that leave quite a large failure % until you get the uber gear?


Yes, Heal scrolls won't be reliable until end-game... Other stuff you can get earlier...

Say at 12th level,

15 ranks
4 Greater Heroism (Adds +4 to all skills)
1 Luck bonus (from Voice of the Master)
3 UMD necklace
4 Ranger skill Boost

= 27 (still useful - 50% chance to use raise dead scroll for instance)

At 20th level

23 ranks
4 GH
2 Luck bonus (Head of Good Fortune)
3 UMD necklace
6 Shroud CHA skills item


= 38 (42 with skill boost though you won't need it anymore) - enough for Heal scrolls

Thrudh
09-16-2009, 01:36 PM
The Elf Dragon marks are very nice.
And that is certainly a valid option.
I have an up and coming pure Rgr who has the displacement dragon mark and I'm maxing out his UMD.

I think this is very good option... probably better than splashing wizard... Again, getting haste isn't much of a problem in a group... I think the biggest benefit of wizard 5 is self-cast displacement, and using elf dragonmarks instead is a good deal...

Plus you can get the displacement one by level 6... You won't see it on a ranger/wizard splash until much later.

So instead of getting 5 wizard levels, you spend two feats... splash two levels of fighter or monk if feats are tight... I think an 18/2 ranger/fighter with Tempest III and the first two elven dragonmarks (and a bunch of haste potions :() would be very very solid...

dbrowdy
09-16-2009, 01:39 PM
I think this is very good option... probably better than splashing wizard... Again, getting haste isn't much of a problem in a group... I think the biggest benefit of wizard 5 is self-cast displacement, and using elf dragonmarks instead is a good deal...

Plus you can get the displacement one by level 6... You won't see it on a ranger/wizard splash until much later.

So instead of getting 5 wizard levels, you spend two feats... splash two levels of fighter or monk if feats are tight... I think an 18/2 ranger/fighter with Tempest III and the first two elven dragonmarks (and a bunch of haste potions :() would be very very solid...
Can anyone link to some good info on dragonmarks? The wiki stuff I've read is VERY incomplete...

Artis_Resistance
09-16-2009, 01:40 PM
Thanks, Thrudh. That's what I like to hear. Its a quirky build, but its fun. I enjoy it because its self-sufficient yet remains challenging. Your "thinking about 20" thread was one I read when I first started playing. +1 rep.

As for Dragon marks, I have the quest... but can't get the trivia questions right. Besides, aren't they feats? Or Enhancements? I'd rather not waste slots when the spells are just as viable.

EDIT: Just realized I'd given you rep for something else recently and it won't let me do it again. :(

Arianrhod
09-16-2009, 02:01 PM
Thanks, Thrudh. That's what I like to hear. Its a quirky build, but its fun. I enjoy it because its self-sufficient yet remains challenging. Your "thinking about 20" thread was one I read when I first started playing. +1 rep.

As for Dragon marks, I have the quest... but can't get the trivia questions right. Besides, aren't they feats? Or Enhancements? I'd rather not waste slots when the spells are just as viable.

EDIT: Just realized I'd given you rep for something else recently and it won't let me do it again. :(

The dragonmarks do indeed require feats, so aren't necessarily worthwhile for someone who can cast spells anyway. The answers to the trivia questions are in the books around the room.

Artis_Resistance
09-16-2009, 02:05 PM
Does the quest give XP? If not, I'll just skip it.

Arianrhod
09-16-2009, 02:07 PM
Does the quest give XP? If not, I'll just skip it.

It gives 50 gold and a free feat respec (good for any one feat exchange, doesn't have to be spent on a dragonmark). Don't think it gives XP.

Artis_Resistance
09-16-2009, 02:12 PM
Can the respec be used at any time, or only upon quest completion? That's worth a fair amount of XP as is! Theoretically, I could use it at a much later level if its an on the spot deal or save it for later.

Arianrhod
09-16-2009, 02:31 PM
Can the respec be used at any time, or only upon quest completion? That's worth a fair amount of XP as is! Theoretically, I could use it at a much later level if its an on the spot deal or save it for later.

Anytime. It just shows up in the corner of the screen with the message "you have a free feat exchange" until you use it.

Artis_Resistance
09-16-2009, 02:55 PM
Anytime. It just shows up in the corner of the screen with the message "you have a free feat exchange" until you use it.

*dances*

Rydin_Dirtay
09-16-2009, 03:46 PM
So instead of getting 5 wizard levels, you spend two feats... splash two levels of fighter or monk if feats are tight... I think an 18/2 ranger/fighter with Tempest III and the first two elven dragonmarks (and a bunch of haste potions :() would be very very solid...

I am doing this at present (Elf dragonmarked 18 Ranger/1 wiz/1 fighter). Presently 6/1/1. In my opinion, it is too squishy for a beginning player, it requires combat skills and aggro management that they do not have yet.

The build will have Tempest III, perma-displacement, Fighter Haste Boost, GTWF, Evasion, Ranger Bark, Ranger resist spell, Rams, solid range attack when needed, etc. etc. you know what I am talking about. It is your classic elven warrior--stealthy, striking out of the mist, blades going all over, and then the enemy wondering what hit them.

Talon_Moonshadow
09-16-2009, 05:49 PM
I've been running a couple of these thru the planner, and I cannot figure out how to get meaningful UMD on a pure Ranger build. How do you do it? To me, "meaningful" is reliable Stoneskin, Heal, etc. usage, isn't that reasonable?

I see 21 UMD at level 20, plus CHA of, lets say 20 = +6 bonus = 27 UMD. Then add in Cartouche +3 more, 30 UMD
Then...what else...well, maybe shroud CHA item...ok, maybe you could get it up there...but that is at endgame.

For Heal scrolls, Stoneskin, etc. doesn't that leave quite a large failure % until you get the uber gear?

Lol.
I actually do not know either.

But every build you will ever see on these forums claims to have a high UMD.

Not once have i ever seen anyone admit that you cannot get it high enough to be meaningful on a cross-class skilled char.

Even my Rog16 with starting 16Cha and max ranks in UMD cannot use it reliably enough IMO.
I use Cure Moderate Wands because they are the only ones I can use reliable.
I use GH scrolls, and Prayer scrolls before I use a Raise Dead scroll, because of the expense of the Raise Dead scroll, should I fail.

But yet all these people claim to use Heal scrolls reliably on their Rogues, Bards, and Sorcs.

All these people claim that UMD is the most important skill to include in their Ftr build.
And do it with only an 8 Cha too!

(but I also notice those same people asking for lesser restores)

Ya got me man. I don't know how they do it.

But I've decided to join the club and try it out on my newer chars.

Edit: actually there are a lot tricks I've learned to boost up skills when needed. I learned them playing a Rog, but thay apply to all skills.
And I believe Rgrs have a skill boost enhancement they could use to help out.

Talon_Moonshadow
09-16-2009, 06:00 PM
Just an FYI...


Not every group has a caster
Sometimes the party has to split up, and you might not be with the caster
Not every caster will buff you
If you get debuffed in the middle of combat, you're likely not going to get fully rebuffed by the caster


That said, haste is one of those buffs that pretty much every caster will throw at you... so being able to self-haste isn't worth as much as self-displacement. Although it is very nice when soloing or in a group without a caster...

The biggest problem with the wizard splash nowadays is Shroud gear... You can make long-lasting Haste and Displacement clickables, which can mostly replace the advantage of splashing wizard...

However! For a new player, Shroud crafting for extra clickables is a LONG way off... First you have to level that high, and then your first half-dozen Shroud items are all going to be weapons or hp or sp items... Crafting multiple displacement clickables is not something you'll be doing anytime soon...

I played a 11/5 ranger/wizard for a LONG time and throughly enjoyed it... Great solo power, always self-sufficient, able to take any group and finish the quest... even without a caster... I'd handle haste and displacement for the group by myself.

Think of it as having fun in the bedroom.
The fun you can get from another person doing things for you is better and more desirable.

But another person will never do things for you as often as you would like.

For those married to a good guildy you might be able to get by on what they are willing to give you.

But for the single PUGer you spend awhole lot of time doing without.

But the Rgr/Wiz build can provide his own fun on tap. :D

Artis_Resistance
09-16-2009, 06:22 PM
Think of it as having fun in the bedroom.
The fun you can get from another person doing things for you is better and more desirable.

But another person will never do things for you as often as you would like.

For those married to a good guildy you might be able to get by on what they are willing to give you.

But for the single PUGer you spend awhole lot of time doing without.

But the Rgr/Wiz build can provide his own fun on tap. :D

I absolutely love this post. +1 rep.

Artis_Resistance
09-16-2009, 06:25 PM
UMD stuff.

Right. So I'd be better of ignoring my UMD skill and focusing on my traps, search, spot, and open locks! Thanks for saving me a trip down a bad road.

Thrudh
09-16-2009, 07:27 PM
Think of it as having fun in the bedroom.
The fun you can get from another person doing things for you is better and more desirable.

But another person will never do things for you as often as you would like.

For those married to a good guildy you might be able to get by on what they are willing to give you.

But for the single PUGer you spend awhole lot of time doing without.

But the Rgr/Wiz build can provide his own fun on tap. :D

Egads, what a metaphor....

What has been read, cannot be unread.... <groan> :)

Artis_Resistance
09-16-2009, 08:02 PM
I fapped.

Talon_Moonshadow
09-17-2009, 12:22 AM
Right. So I'd be better of ignoring my UMD skill and focusing on my traps, search, spot, and open locks! Thanks for saving me a trip down a bad road.

Well, I didn't say that exactly.

I used to ignore it.

But then I made a pure Rog and fell in love with it.
Then put points into it on my Sorc and High Cha Pal.

It's addictive to be sure.

But how do you get it high enough on a pure Rgr to do all the things you want to, I do not know.
And why people claim they can use heal scrolls and mass cure scrolls reliably I do not know.

Anyway, I now look at each char I make and decide whether or not UMD can be fit into the build easily or not.

It's a personal choice IMO.

The best use I've found for it is using Restoration scrolls if I only have one or two neg lvls. But now that they go away by themselves over time it's a little less valuable.

Being able to use Res scrolls is nice, but they are too expensive.

Artis_Resistance
09-17-2009, 05:53 AM
I think I'd be better off ignoring it and using those points for stealth skills and lockpicking/traps. Who needs UMD if you've got a self-sufficient character? The point cost saving is balanced by getting a Cleric/FvS hireling!

200-XXX gold is worth having extra skill points, right?

tihocan
09-17-2009, 08:29 AM
I think this version is a lot better. Better mid-game melee capabilities. (...)

Sounds like going drow may help (+2 Int for more skill points).

Power attack is a must have on any melee build that's aiming at good DPS, you should try to fit it in. Also, it'd be a lot better to use khopeshes than longswords, and hopefully get oversized twf as well, because your to-hit is going to be lacking (only BAB15 at L20 - though you'll probably be using divine power clickies - and only 18 base Str when most melee classes are at BAB20 and 22+ base str).

Your current (non wizard) feats are: dodge/mobility/mental toughness/spring attack/toughness/IC: slash/improved mental toughness. You can easily get rid of the two mental toughness feats to get power attack and khopesh proficiency. Unfortunately you can't fit oversized twf, you could do it by removing toughness, but I wouldn't recommend it because you're rather squishy and you'll need these extra HPs.

Artis_Resistance
09-17-2009, 09:15 AM
Would not taking IC: Slashing and adding Power Attack be optimal?

tihocan
09-17-2009, 09:27 AM
Would not taking IC: Slashing and adding Power Attack be optimal?
No, Improved Crit is a must have as well on any DPS build. The only reason to drop it is after you crafted some dual Mineral II weapons (that are keen) if you happen to only use these.