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netarc
09-04-2009, 12:50 PM
Had my first taste of playing a rogue last night, and I found it very intriguing, particularly the backstabbing ;)

I'm planning to reroll my char today on Thelanis (the game-generated rogue I got last night had a dex of 14?!?); could I get some advise on the new char build?

I'm looking to start as a Halfling Rogue, focusing on Two-handed fighting with Rapier and ultimately following the "assassin" path. I'm guessing my playstyle will typically be to hover/hide around the edges of the battle, striking when MOBs are otherwise engaged.

I'm guessing the first two feats I'll want will be Weapon Finesse & Two handed Fighting, in that order? Any suggestions on where to add the feats from there?

re: STATS - I was thinking of starting with STR 11 or 12, DEX 17 (w. finesse), INT 14 (for skills/assassin checks), CHA 10 or 12 (for use magic, right?) , CON 12 or 13 ... thoughts?

re: Two-handed - rather than use a feat for this, would it make sense to add level(s) of ranger (gets this for free?), and if so when?

re: Race: I'd read somewhere that halflings get an "extra sneak attack" ... is this true, and how/when? Is their no longer a multiclass penalty for halflings? (I though only humans/halfelf could multi w/o penalty?)

re: Action Points - any suggestions on where to spend the first 6-10 action points would be appreciated!

re: SneakAttacks - does executing a sneak attack require that one be in "sneak/hide" mode, or does this extra damage automatically apply so long as the MOB's attacked from the rear? Is there any bonus to hit with sneak attacks, or just damage?

Thanks for any advice!!

tihocan
09-04-2009, 01:53 PM
It's two-weapon fighting, not two-handed fighting.

Dual-wielding rapiers is fine. Remember rapier is not a light weapon so you'll get -2 to-hit compared to using a light weapon in off-hand. Might hurt mostly at low levels.

You can't take weapon finesse at L1 (due to the BAB +1 requirement) so take twf then weapon finesse.

Get Improved TWF at L9, Improved Crit: Pierce at L12 and Greater TWF at L15.

I would start with 12 Str, so that you can easily get power attack after acquiring a +1 tome.

I wouldn't go above 10 Cha, since at high levels it's possible to boost umd high enough. Con will be more useful than Cha (start at least 14 Con).

14 int sounds fine, so does 17 dex (go 18 if you can afford the points).

Halflings do not get extra sneak attacks. They have some nice sneak attack enhancements though.

APs: don't worry too much about spending them, they are easy to reset.

Sneak attacks occur when the enemy is not aggroed on you, regardless of the attack angle or your hiding status. Flanking is different from sneak attack (and relates to attacking from the rear). There are various sources of to-hit bonuses for sneak attacks.

netarc
09-04-2009, 03:05 PM
Thanks for the advice!!


Dual-wielding rapiers is fine. Remember rapier is not a light weapon so you'll get -2 to-hit compared to using a light weapon in off-hand. Might hurt mostly at low levels.

You can't take weapon finesse at L1 (due to the BAB +1 requirement) so take twf then weapon finesse.
ah, will do, thanks ... if I use a light weapon (dagger, kana?) in the off-hand, will either hand suffer any minus to hit? If rapier in both hands, will both hands suffer a minus to hit, or just the offhand?


I would start with 12 Str, so that you can easily get power attack after acquiring a +1 tome.
re: power attack - not familiar with that, how could this be particularly useful for a rogue build?


Halflings do not get extra sneak attacks. They have some nice sneak attack enhancements though.
Do you know where I could read up more on this type of thing, e.g., stuff like which races would have sneak attack enhancements or the like?


APs: don't worry too much about spending them, they are easy to reset.
Can you advise how, didn't find anything in the menu/interface for this...

tihocan
09-04-2009, 03:11 PM
ah, will do, thanks ... if I use a light weapon (dagger, kana?) in the off-hand, will either hand suffer any minus to hit? If rapier in both hands, will both hands suffer a minus to hit, or just the offhand?
As long as you have the twf feat, both hands get a penalty to hit. It is -2 if the off-hand is light or if you have the oversied two-weapon fighting feat, otherwise it is -4.


re: power attack - not familiar with that, how could this be particularly useful for a rogue build?
There are high level raids where good DPS is a must. Power attack gives you +5 dmg to each hand, which is equivalent to +10 Str, thus quite useful. I know a lot of finesse builds do not take it, but I personally think it's a mistake. Even if you are not planning on taking it, starting at 12 str will ensure you can easily change your mind later.


Do you know where I could read up more on this type of thing, e.g., stuff like which races would have sneak attack enhancements or the like?
In the ddo compendium (ddo.com, click compendium) and the ddo wiki (link in my sig).


Can you advise how, didn't find anything in the menu/interface for this...
Talk to your trainer and ask to reset enhancements (you can do it once every 3 days).

netarc
09-04-2009, 03:25 PM
Fantastic, thank you!

If you or anyone else has any further advice for this type of character (rogue 2-weapon fighter), I'm all ears ... thanks!

Aranticus
09-05-2009, 12:07 AM
read my sig

netarc
09-05-2009, 01:48 PM
I'm wondering if, rather than taking the TWF feat at 1st level, whether I should splash in a few levels of Ranger to get TWF for free at a later point?

I understand it's always best to start out level 1 as rogue ... should I continue as rogue for a few levels, and then later add in Ranger until I get the TWF feat (that's @ lev 3, iirc?), and then max out on rogue? OR should I hit Ranger at the frist level add, continue until I get TWF and then max our Rogue?

netarc
09-05-2009, 02:39 PM
Used the char planner to come up with this build, suggestions/critique would be appreciated, thanks!


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Oolis N'tarc
Level 1 Chaotic Good Halfling Female
(1 Rogue)
Hit Points: 28
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 0
Fortitude: 3
Reflex: 7
Will: 1

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Stats Modified Stats
Abilities (Level 1) (Level 1)
Strength 11 11
Dexterity 18 18
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 11 11
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 12 12

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 1)
Balance 5 5
Bluff 1 1
Concentration 2 2
Diplomacy 1 1
Disable Device 4 4
Haggle 1 1
Heal -1 -1
Hide 8 10
Intimidate 1 1
Jump 1 3
Listen -1 1
Move Silently 8 10
Open Lock 8 8
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 0 0
Search 4 4
Spot 3 3
Swim 0 0
Tumble 7 7
Use Magic Device 4 4

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Will) I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I

Twerpp
09-05-2009, 03:37 PM
I'm wondering if, rather than taking the TWF feat at 1st level, whether I should splash in a few levels of Ranger to get TWF for free at a later point?

I understand it's always best to start out level 1 as rogue ... should I continue as rogue for a few levels, and then later add in Ranger until I get the TWF feat (that's @ lev 3, iirc?), and then max out on rogue? OR should I hit Ranger at the frist level add, continue until I get TWF and then max our Rogue?


Hey Net. Lots of people splash ranger, its one of the best choices to multi with rogue. Go 2 lvls for twf and some neat bow feats, or 6 lvls for ITWF, manyshot (a very powerful ranged feat, even if ranged is not your focus) and access to the tempest enhancement (you have to buy extra feats to get this though). You can buy a lot of rogue skills as a ranger too so you dont fall behind in anything if you plan right. Also favored enemy, a few more hp, access to some more useful weapons, and rams might.

Consider what enhancements you hit or miss by splashing, there is some good stuff out there. Rogues are a challenging class to run for your first time around so good luck!

netarc
09-05-2009, 03:54 PM
Hey Net. Lots of people splash ranger, its one of the best choices to multi with rogue. Go 2 lvls for twf and some neat bow feats, or 6 lvls for ITWF, manyshot (a very powerful ranged feat, even if ranged is not your focus) and access to the tempest enhancement (you have to buy extra feats to get this though). You can buy a lot of rogue skills as a ranger too so you dont fall behind in anything if you plan right. Also favored enemy, a few more hp, access to some more useful weapons, and rams might.

Consider what enhancements you hit or miss by splashing, there is some good stuff out there. Rogues are a challenging class to run for your first time around so good luck!

Thanks ... I do like the idea of having a toon with TWF and good ranged abilities, so manyshot/ITWF for free at lev 6 ranger is an interesting draw. I'd heard about the tempest ranger/rogue, build, I'll have to read up on that and see what tempest is; what extra feats are req'd for tempest? re: planning right to buy rogue skills as ranger, is upping intelligence to 12 or 14 sufficient, or is there more to it?

re: level progression ... does starting as L1 rogue, then next two level ups add ranger, then back to Rogue (assuming I don't opt for the tempes build) sound appropriate?

malaky
09-05-2009, 03:59 PM
Thanks ... I do like the idea of having a toon with TWF and good ranged abilities, so manyshot/ITWF for free at lev 6 ranger is an interesting draw. I'd heard about the tempest ranger/rogue, build, I'll have to read up on that and see what tempest is; what extra feats are req'd for tempest? re: planning right to buy rogue skills as ranger, is upping intelligence to 12 or 14 sufficient, or is there more to it?

re: level progression ... does starting as L1 rogue, then next two level ups add ranger, then back to Rogue (assuming I don't opt for the tempes build) sound appropriate?

I wouldn't recommend multi-classing if you intend on taking the assassin prestige enhancement line. The death attack DC is based on your rogue level. If you're not worried about assassinate, then "x" rogue / 6 ranger is a strong combination.

netarc
09-05-2009, 04:04 PM
I wouldn't recommend multi-classing if you intend on taking the assassin prestige enhancement line. The death attack DC is based on your rogue level. If you're not worried about assassinate, then "x" rogue / 6 ranger is a strong combination.
Ah, I didn't realize that - guess I have more reading to do about the assassin path :(

If I used only two levels for ranger (for the TWF and some bow feats?), would that still detract a lot from the assassinate DC?

malaky
09-05-2009, 04:38 PM
Ah, I didn't realize that - guess I have more reading to do about the assassin path :(

If I used only two levels for ranger (for the TWF and some bow feats?), would that still detract a lot from the assassinate DC?

That will give you two-weapon fighting and bow strength for free. Also, it will enable you to use healing wands at low levels (at higher levels you will have high enough UMD for this). However, your assassinate DC will be 2 points lower. Many consider this a fair trade; I, however, kept my assassin pure rogue. It depends on personal preference.

tihocan
09-05-2009, 09:45 PM
Read more about the assassin enhancements: http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Enhancement:Rogue_Assassin_I (and II and III).

Note in particular that Assassin III is L18, so more than 2 levels of ranger will prevent you from getting it.

Personally, I would probably stay pure, unless being really short on feats.