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Candour
07-28-2009, 01:36 PM
I am currently saving up gear for making a monk, but having a very hard time figuring out which type of monk to roll.

I will link a few of the builds, with a basic description, and just ask that people give opinions on the builds, and what they would be used for.

Dex based halfling (most level ups in dex)
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=188091

Wisdom based halfling (most level ups in wisdom)
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=192154

Strength based dwarf (levels up in str)
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=182228

Other options, Strength based WF
Str or Dex or wis based human?

I can't seem to find more STR based builds, they are so scattered on these boards.

** With that in mind, is there anywhere with a better list of builds, catagorized and sorted etc?

My take on the builds:

Wisdom, focuses on stunning fist, maybe stunning blow, and then vorpals said monsters or auto crits to death? Not a clue what they do vs monsters immune to said stuns.
Dex, focuses on stat reducing and vorpals, with greater banes pretty necessary for the rest.
Str, dps? From what i have read monk and dps doesnt go together, but some seem to be advocates of STR base for the dps.

Please let me know if there's something else each build does well.

** Lastly, a basic monk question, are the elemental attacks and finishers DC's based on wisdom?

Samadhi
07-28-2009, 01:45 PM
I would rec. a Str based monk. I went halfling for mine, but human would be very do-able.

Assuming +2 tomes:
Str 16 + lvls
Dex 15
Con 13
Int 11
Wis 14
Cha 8

Enough dex for TWF feats with the +2 tome, enough Str to hit with PA on against the majority of mobs, enough intelligence to use CE when defense is more important.

Mobeius
07-28-2009, 02:21 PM
Wis-Based Human LOL.

unless ur just makng a fire and forget monk then yea the others do well.

Aerendil
07-28-2009, 02:28 PM
I'd say pick your weapons of choice first, and then go from there.

If you're thinking primarily handwraps, and want to take full advantage of QP and Stunning Fist, then a high WIS is essential. Otherwise, you can slack off a bit and maybe go for a mixed DEX/WIS build (numerous ones out there).

If you're going for QS, you'll want heavy STR and you may even want to consider multi-classing (Rog/Monk with QS is a very popular combo). But currently, the heavy STR builds aren't as popular since DEX/WIS offers more overall (AC x 2, increases in Monk DCs, better saves, haste, finesse BAB, etc, etc.).
If they ever fix Whirling Steel Strike, STR builds will become more popular, but until then, I'd go DEX/WIS personally.

Re: tactics, yeah, stun the mobs and then let your group insta-kill them or simply just dps them down. And yes, the monk finishers are based on WIS (DC = 10 + monk level + WIS modifier).

rimble
07-28-2009, 02:28 PM
No regrets on my Strength-based Halfling (well, actually, I regret not raising Spot). If I recall, something like:

Str 14 (+4 Levels, +6 Item, +2 Tome = 26)
Dex 16 (+2 Enh, +6 Item, +2 Tome = 26)
Con 14 (+6 Item, +2 Tome = 20)
Int 8
Wis 16 (+3 Enh, +6 Item, +2 Tome = 27)
Cha 8

Access to Tier IV of all stances except Earth, need +4 Con Tome.

Didn't include the stance stat buff there since I move between Fire, Water, and Earth. Probably gonna join the masses and start using Air stance now though, the excessive Ki available from Fire stance just can't be used fast enough.

1: TWF, Toughness
2: Stunning Fist
3: WF: Bludgeoning (probably oughta drop that)
6: Stunning Blow, Power Attack
9: ITWF
12: IC: Bludgeoning
15: GTWF
18: ?????

Leyoni
07-28-2009, 02:33 PM
I suppose that a fully tricked out monk is worthwhile.

DEX and WIS need to be balanced with some consideration as both contribute to AC -- the main reason to focus on those stats.

STR seems a reasonable option but it sacrifices AC. This may be moot as the DPS is probably too small to hold aggro in any case.

Sufficient attention must be given to CON as well. All in all it appears a difficult choice.

IMO the decision will have to rest on available gear and capstone enhancements/path options. Look at the paths to decide which you really want to follow. Check out the effects of finishing moves and various uses of ki.

All three build types look functional assuming that you have the gear for them. So it is this area of paths and enhancements -- determining the flavor of the build -- that would influence my decision were I in your shoes.

Candour
07-28-2009, 03:17 PM
Thanks for the responses.

I guess I am just wondering at the viability of the different builds as far as endgame raiding is concerned. With soloing and 6man quests up there as far as rating the build as well.

I cannot really see how much more DPS a STR build will be doing than a dex/finesse build.
I cannot see how a wisdom build does much of any dps at all =P.

Can any of you answer if the wisdom dc check applies to the damage from the "moves" and damage type finishers?


Rimble, I was looking at a build just like yours, and spot was going to be one of the raised skills due to mod 9 changes.

If anyone has played multiple different monks, at least 2, at 16 and can give an opinion on which brings more to a raid etc...that would be greatly appreciated. I guess since I have no raid experience, I am not quite sure what the "job" of monks is in a raid, and if choosing a specific build will get me excluded, whereas another build will let me fit in more raids. (I will be pugging mostly)

Mobeius
07-28-2009, 03:22 PM
I suppose that a fully tricked out monk is worthwhile.

Yes it is! Its taken a long time and a lot of work, but, I enjoy well rounded monk immensely, and I am STILL working on him, I need 3 cleansing stones (I have 19 completions on shroud, maybe 18), LOL, and I have 2 sets of DT armor I like, contemplating a third set, and I still want the belt and the chattering ring from titan. My work has a long way to go, but I like my monk and trying new things. I just rdid my AP's so I could achieve a 50% heal boost with my DT armor and on healing curse, instead of 1 to 2 points I now do 1 to 3, I have effectively retired my other chars for now. My next stop is to keep playing my monk till mod 9 and then get to 20 and work on him from there.

Repped ya

Mobeius
07-28-2009, 03:23 PM
I'd say pick your weapons of choice first, and then go from there.

If you're thinking primarily handwraps, and want to take full advantage of QP and Stunning Fist, then a high WIS is essential. Otherwise, you can slack off a bit and maybe go for a mixed DEX/WIS build (numerous ones out there).

If you're going for QS, you'll want heavy STR and you may even want to consider multi-classing (Rog/Monk with QS is a very popular combo). But currently, the heavy STR builds aren't as popular since DEX/WIS offers more overall (AC x 2, increases in Monk DCs, better saves, haste, finesse BAB, etc, etc.).
If they ever fix Whirling Steel Strike, STR builds will become more popular, but until then, I'd go DEX/WIS personally.

Re: tactics, yeah, stun the mobs and then let your group insta-kill them or simply just dps them down. And yes, the monk finishers are based on WIS (DC = 10 + monk level + WIS modifier).

Repped for solid advice, and bolded is what my monk is about and durability by good mitigation of damage. I consider ther melees bonus DPS added to my own and as such monk DPS is secondly only to maybe maxed out sorc.

Samadhi
07-28-2009, 03:36 PM
I cannot really see how much more DPS a STR build will be doing than a dex/finesse build.


30 Str monk with PA -> +15 damage per hit
20 Str monk no PA (not that the dex monks can't take PA; but most builds that I have seen don't) -> +5 damage per hit

Pretty straight forward.

The Wis monk is great for trash mobs, but doesn't gain much benefit in most raid scenarios. The super AC dex monk is great for defense, but with lower DPS and no intimidate as a class skill, you really aren't fully utilizing that AC. Hence why I rec. Str build.

Geonis
07-28-2009, 03:46 PM
I must say, I am having a blast with my current monk-ish character.

He is a Cleric/Monk, Dex/Wis based.

Starting stats-

Str 12
Dex 18
Con 14
Int 8
Wis 16
Cha 8

Ate a +1 Str tome at creation for Pwr Atk, and a +1 Wis later to even score out.

Feats
1-TWF
(M)Weapon Finesse
(M)Pwr Atk
3-Toughness
6-Extend
9-ITWF
12-Imp Crit Bludgeoning (fight unarmed almost exclusively)

(think i'm missing something in the feats)

Level 13 currently Monk 3/Cleric 10, with plans to go at least 11 Cleric, but not sure how much more.

Current stats-

Str 13 (+6 from Divine Power)
Dex 30 (18 base + 2 level up + 2 Halfling + 2 stance + 6 item)
Con 16 (14 base +4 item - 2 stance)
Int 8
Wis 26 (16 base + 6 item + 2 Cleric + 1 tome + 1 level up) or 28 (with stance)
Cha 8

You would be surprised how effective this character is, I routinely outkill Barbs and Rangers in GH quests (when I'm not primary healer, which is most of the time).

Something to note about this build, the Monk Ki Healing is affected by the Healing AP line (and the grtr dev 5 helm I wear), and even at only level 3 Monk, my Ki hits for 25-50ish (it can crit for more). My to hit (with Pwr Atk on self buffed) is 13 BAB [Divine Power] + 10 Dex + 1 size + 4 GH + 3 DF + 1 Haste -5 Pwr Atk = +27 + weapon (+2 when sneak attacking) + 2 "Ki Heroism"

The big question is where to go after level 14?

I can continue to Cleric 17 and be a pretty effective healer, or end up like I originally planned 11 Cleric/9 Monk and be a more effective "Battle" Cleric.


At level 15, the big question will be GrtrTWF or Maximize or Emp Healing or Quicken?

BTW, anyone on Khyber with a Grtr/Sup Potency/Devotion 6 helm or ring, let me know and we can work out a deal. :D

Mobeius
07-28-2009, 04:22 PM
Pretty straight forward.

The Wis monk is great for trash mobs, but doesn't gain much benefit in most raid scenarios.

I completely disagree with this, Unbalancing strike, Walk the Sun, Rezzing, Healing Curse, Immunity to stuns, dazes and sleep, and my DPS while not top of the line I still do good DPS. If I increase YOUR DPS, guess what that is my effect thus is my DPS. on any mob I average about 35 per hit, I crit high 60's (around 68) I can crit as much over a 100 (fist of Iron). I could go on to the benefits of a wisdom monk that is built for utility and support.

rimble
07-28-2009, 04:41 PM
The Wis monk is great for trash mobs, but doesn't gain much benefit in most raid scenarios. The super AC dex monk is great for defense, but with lower DPS and no intimidate as a class skill, you really aren't fully utilizing that AC. Hence why I rec. Str build.

That's what it came down to for me too. High AC is nice, of course...but for the most part I can't pull aggro. Well, since I can't pull aggro (ok, actually I have a few times, but it's not the norm), and don't have any good Class skills to purposefully pull aggro, I might as well use this nifty +8 Sneak Attack damage Enhancement...high AC on a Monk is weird, because aside from soloing (or soloing in a party by running ahead) it's hard to keep aggro. Of course Unbalancing Strike and Stunning Blow (c'mon, fix those Weighted handwraps) synergize well with that Sneak Attack too.


I completely disagree with this, Unbalancing strike, Walk the Sun, Rezzing, Healing Curse, Immunity to stuns, dazes and sleep, and my DPS while not top of the line I still do good DPS. If I increase YOUR DPS, guess what that is my effect thus is my DPS. on any mob I average about 35 per hit, I crit high 60's (around 68) I can crit as much over a 100 (fist of Iron). I could go on to the benefits of a wisdom monk that is built for utility and support.

Aside from Unbalancing Strike I'm missing what a high Wisdom has to do with any of that. I'm not saying that Wisdom Monks, or your Monk, are not effective. Your argument just doesn't seem on target.

Mobeius
07-28-2009, 04:59 PM
Here is the skinny

The Trembling Earth - earth + earth +earth = The attack has +2 crit mult, and the victim is unable to cast spells for 30 seconds.

The Gathering Storm - air + air + air = The target's ability to "land attacks" is reduced for 30 seconds. -2 on attack rolls. Undead appear immune.

The Raging Sea - water + water + water = The enemy's attacks are slowed for 30 seconds.

Dragon Breath = fire + fire + fire = A cone of fire does 1d4 damage per level, no max.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Healing Ki = POS + POS + POS You heal all nearby allies for 2d4+something points. Does not harm undead foes, goes up with leveling.

Grasp the Earth Dragon = earth + POS + earth Nearby allies become immune to daze, stun, and sleep for 30 seconds

Dance of Clouds = air + POS + air = Nearby allies gain 20% concealment for 60 seconds.

Aligning the Heavens = water + POS +water = Nearby allies gain a 10% reduction in spellpoint costs for 60 seconds.

Walk of the Sun = fire +POS +fire Nearby allies gain a +2 untyped bonus to attack, saves, and skills for 60 seconds.

Please note that Eagles Claw, unbalancing strike, fists of iron qualify as the elemental type attack. IE if you do eagles claw 3 times you can do burning hands, or if you do Eagles + Fists of Light + Eagles = Walk the Sun.

Also not mentioned for Earth it gives you Strike of the Enduring II *right now* which is 8 additional untyped Damage and if you crit (which tunned mobs you do) you also do 2D6 acid damage, S.O.E 3 will be 12 points and 3D6 YUM!

*I dropped Eagles Claw and Only took One rank of Fire Stance in current build in favor of taking Human Recovery 2 which allows my curse of healing heal me 1 or 3 per hit and jungle cloak clicks at 7 and cure serious pots or wands hit about 40.

Yes some of that stuff is hard to land but if you dont mind the twitch you can get it off.

I have a DC 28 Stunning Fist and I it lands even without the weighted bonus.

Garth_of_Sarlona
07-28-2009, 11:51 PM
That's what it came down to for me too. High AC is nice, of course...but for the most part I can't pull aggro.

one option if you're finding it hard to pull agrro is to put levik's set on bracers and dt armor - that gives you +3 insight and +6 str as well as +20% hate while only using a sovereign slot (which, assuming you are using handwraps, would only be otherwise used for +4 ac, so you're really only losing 1 ac) and a bracer slot. However if you are using the chaosguard for +2 ac then it becomes a harder decision, but still might be worth it depending on your desired role in the party.

Garth