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View Full Version : Replace shrines with campsites!



sephiroth1084
07-16-2009, 01:34 AM
I don't see this taking off, but I'll make the suggestion anyway.

I've never liked the whole shrine thing much. If feels too contrived and video game-y, has little flavor, and is inconsistent in how it functions in terms of HP vs. SP.

As such, I propose replacing all the shrines with campsites. I know, I know. Hang on and keep reading. A campsite would function similarly to a tavern, in that, instead of clicking on a magical shrine and sitting down for 30 seconds to regain some HP and all your SP, you would be able to consume tavern food and drink to regain HP and SP back, and can /sleep for 30 seconds or so while doing so to regain daily abilities.

Food items and the /sleep bonus effect would have a cooldown of several minutes (you can gain only so much benefit from a good meal or nap after all). There would be a short cooldown and a long one. The shorter one would be independent of quest difficulty and simply locks out the use of these actions or commands (eating and sleeping).

The longer one would be based on quest difficulty and would reduce the effect these items have on each use beyond the number of camps there are in the dungeon. Basically, you could eat again when the timer on food is up, but would gain less of a benefit as long as the second timer is still active. The second timer only kicks in after you have rested a number of times equal to the number of camps in the area (so, a quest that currently has 3 shrines, would have 3 camps, letting you rest 3 times before gaining a lesser effect).

Ranks in Heal would still affect HP regen for all those resting nearby, and ranks in Concentration would have a similar effect.

As I said at the beginning of the post, I doubt that anything will come of this, but it's something I'd like to see happen in game.

Kaldais
07-16-2009, 08:59 AM
/signed.

In addition, Quests should have a number of rest points, each rest in the campsite uses up 1 rest point. At the end of the quest a bonus should be given if no rest points are used up, and a penalty of 20% should be taken for each rest point used up below which is allowed.

sephiroth1084
07-16-2009, 12:49 PM
/signed.

In addition, Quests should have a number of rest points, each rest in the campsite uses up 1 rest point. At the end of the quest a bonus should be given if no rest points are used up, and a penalty of 20% should be taken for each rest point used up below which is allowed.

I think 20% is a bit much, though the idea has some merit overall.

darthuvius
07-16-2009, 12:56 PM
Interesting, how about giving the party leader the option to set up camp, a set number of times and anywhere in the dungeon?

The removal of rest shrines in lieu of carrying around camp gear is a possibility since shrines are available in the turbine store. Each quest would allow the leader to use their gear a set number of times, if you need to use them any more than that, you would have to buy an advanced camping gear for 50 cents or something.

Borror0
07-16-2009, 01:29 PM
If DDO was to be rebuilt, it would be interesting to explore the concept of campfires per quest instead of fixed shrines.

That is, the party would be allowed to establish encampments wherever they wanted (given certain limitation like space, distance from foes, etc.) by passing up a vote. It has some advantages (more realistic, closer to D&D, no more "use or lose", etc.) but also has some disadvantages (politics, more difficult to balance around, etc.) so it depends on which ends up being preferred.

The number of campfires would change from quest to quest and not be a fixed amount.

sephiroth1084
07-16-2009, 01:51 PM
If DDO was to be rebuilt, it would be interesting to explore the concept of campfires per quest instead of fixed shrines.

That is, the party would be allowed to establish encampments wherever they wanted (given certain limitation like space, distance from foes, etc.) by passing up a vote. It has some advantages (more realistic, closer to D&D, no more "use or lose", etc.) but also has some disadvantages (politics, more difficult to balance around, etc.) so it depends on which ends up being preferred.

The number of campfires would change from quest to quest and not be a fixed amount.

Ultimately, I'd love that, but I was trying to hit a middle ground in my initial post, where shrines are replaced directly by camps--the shrine graphics are replaced in their current locations--where the mechanics are adjusted to be a bit more flavorful. It also means that you can skip a "camp" early in a quest, and, depending on how long you go after using a later one, may be able to return to the nearer camp rather than having to run back to the beginning of the quest to use a shrine.

Zenako
07-16-2009, 01:56 PM
Interestingly if you actually look around the areas of many shrines, you will find a Campfire already there, along with some rocks to sit on. It it the exception to not have a campfire at a shrine site. Next time you run, look around. :)

sephiroth1084
07-16-2009, 01:59 PM
Interestingly if you actually look around the areas of many shrines, you will find a Campfire already there, along with some rocks to sit on. It it the exception to not have a campfire at a shrine site. Next time you run, look around. :)

I've noticed. Now just replace the shrines with tents and sleeping bags, put a spit over the fire, and voila! Campsite! :D

Kalari
07-16-2009, 02:04 PM
I asked for this in wilderness areas awhile back I still think its a good idea it would definitely bring the old pen and paper feel to the game. Your party goes on a long excursion and you have to pause to recoup :)

I like it

irivan
07-16-2009, 02:27 PM
Personally i dont think that any dungeon should have pre designed rst points at all, and you should be required to tow around gear to biuld your camp site, this should take a rest shrines yellow bar worth of time to biuld. It would go like this.


Requirements
a tent
steaks
rope
bed roll
and flint and steel
timer to biuld = rest shrine yellow bar
Can only be constructed if monsters have been cleared to a sizable distance (thier leash) [really hard to do in raids]
upon completion per OP idea above, eating tevern food and special emote restores health/points
heal skill enhances regen (makeing this skill much more usefull)
tent, bed roll, and rope should not be stackable items (this limits people carrying hordes of this **** around)
a cool add on would be the option enter total sleep, if alone this could generate a wandering monster roll, that if you had friends you could be defended while you slept, or alone woken upon hit!!! (or killed if that hit is nasty enough) this would also make Elven Meditation a cool advantage!!


Just my two cents

sephiroth1084
07-16-2009, 02:33 PM
Personally i dont think that any dungeon should have pre designed rst points at all, and you should be required to tow around gear to biuld your camp site, this should take a rest shrines yellow bar worth of time to biuld. It would go like this.


Requirements
a tent
steaks
rope
bed roll
and flint and steel
timer to biuld = rest shrine yellow bar
Can only be constructed if monsters have been cleared to a sizable distance (thier leash) [really hard to do in raids]
upon completion per OP idea above, eating tevern food and special emote restores health/points
heal skill enhances regen (makeing this skill much more usefull)
tent, bed roll, and rope should not be stackable items (this limits people carrying hordes of this **** around)

I think requiring some camping gear would be reasonable (maybe special sleeping bags or tents could become loot that restore more HP/SP, are usable more often, reduce cooldown timers, or that grant some beneficial effect when used), but not to this degree. I wouldn't want the system to become that cumbersome.





I had been thinking about this exactly, but decided to hold off on introducing it until I saw what sort of response the less radical first post garnered.

Just my two cents

Karranor
07-16-2009, 04:33 PM
I like the idea but I think you are right, may take some major redesign work and I am of the crowd that would prefer more new dungeons than old dungeons with camp sites.

However, after the game takes off with F2P and they have piles of money then I fully expect to see a Camp Fire Development Team of no less than two dozen dedicated devs! :D

I would love to see camp fires. I would love to have rests tracked, each one counts down XP or whatever. Know the quest, rock it, good bonus. Having trouble? You can still shrine 15 times but by then XP will be minimal. I think that could almost self regulate. /shrug

I like the idea. GL!

sephiroth1084
07-16-2009, 05:04 PM
An idea I just had would be to keep some shrines (or a shrine-like mechanic, maybe a well of holy water) in dungeons that are particularly rough, and where it is expected that players will shrine frequently. That way you could have the campsites, but could maybe find (most should be hidden probably?) an area of magical recuperation.

I think that'd go a long way toward ensuring that some quests don't become much more difficult than intended.

boldarblood
07-16-2009, 05:14 PM
Personally i dont think that any dungeon should have pre designed rst points at all, and you should be required to tow around gear to biuld your camp site, this should take a rest shrines yellow bar worth of time to biuld. It would go like this.


Requirements
a tent
steaks
rope
bed roll
and flint and steel
timer to biuld = rest shrine yellow bar
Can only be constructed if monsters have been cleared to a sizable distance (thier leash) [really hard to do in raids]
upon completion per OP idea above, eating tevern food and special emote restores health/points
heal skill enhances regen (makeing this skill much more usefull)
tent, bed roll, and rope should not be stackable items (this limits people carrying hordes of this **** around)
a cool add on would be the option enter total sleep, if alone this could generate a wandering monster roll, that if you had friends you could be defended while you slept, or alone woken upon hit!!! (or killed if that hit is nasty enough) this would also make Elven Meditation a cool advantage!!


Just my two cents


I think that in the scope of a mmo that is probably a bit to much micro managment, especially in a pug group. Already enough problems to deal with at times in pugs, I think current system we have is adequate.

I am 100% with you on a single player game though, and believe it adds to the game and goes a long way to what table top days was like.

Barumar
07-16-2009, 05:14 PM
If DDO was to be rebuilt, it would be interesting to explore the concept of campfires per quest instead of fixed shrines.

That is, the party would be allowed to establish encampments wherever they wanted (given certain limitation like space, distance from foes, etc.) by passing up a vote. It has some advantages (more realistic, closer to D&D, no more "use or lose", etc.) but also has some disadvantages (politics, more difficult to balance around, etc.) so it depends on which ends up being preferred.

The number of campfires would change from quest to quest and not be a fixed amount.

Throw in a chance for random monster encounters (scaled for difficulty) interrupting your rest, and I am sold!

Seriously how cool would that be? Your resting in the Subterrean and suddenly a Beholder or three spawns on top of the group - sweet!

Barumar

Sambvca
07-16-2009, 05:23 PM
/signed

But you have to be able to spin at these campsites, and yell, "WEEEEEE!!!!! I'M SPINNING, I'M SPINNING!!!!"

shores11
07-16-2009, 05:37 PM
[/LIST]
I think requiring some camping gear would be reasonable (maybe special sleeping bags or tents could become loot that restore more HP/SP, are usable more often, reduce cooldown timers, or that grant some beneficial effect when used), but not to this degree. I wouldn't want the system to become that cumbersome.




I had been thinking about this exactly, but decided to hold off on introducing it until I saw what sort of response the less radical first post garnered.

Just my two cents[/QUOTE]

I agree if anything do it like rogue tools make some campsite gear icon that would accomplish all of this.

However I like the idea of initially just removing the shrines for campsites with a fire in it to replace all shrines. You could even just make it so that you have to click on the camp fire to start the resting. You could have it so that the campfire recognizes if your dead or not then first rezz you and then rest you. All of this would still have you sit like you currently do and wait about 30 seconds. This should not even that big of a deal to change and it would make the game even more realistic sort of speak.

slumbering_dragon
07-17-2009, 02:13 PM
/signed

i like the idae of campsirtes vs. shrines. it bring it closer to the D&D ways we used hundreds of times in pnp.

Aerendil
07-17-2009, 02:32 PM
/signed.

Keep shrines in dungeons that it suits (i.e. Catacombs), and use campfires in other places such as outdoor areas that shrines would seem strange in.

They could even do away with campfires/shrines altogether in some areas, and simply have a popup similar to the monk uncentered exclamation mark showing when you've reached a nice area to rest (or even add DDO voice chat - such as "this seems like a safe place to rest"), and give us a clickable "rest" icon. As long as we're within the radius of the designated rest site, our characters will sit down/rest.

sephiroth1084
07-17-2009, 03:02 PM
Thinking about it now, this might actually present an alternative to the Dungeon Alert system--you can rest in more places, but cannot do so while "hot."

I kind of like that it mimics the need to find a safe area to rest for the night in PnP, but don't like that it removes the possibility of having someone rest while others fight off monsters and then saving the day. Some additional mechanic would need to be incorporated that would enable this action under such a system.

Aerendil
07-17-2009, 03:21 PM
I kind of like that it mimics the need to find a safe area to rest for the night in PnP, but don't like that it removes the possibility of having someone rest while others fight off monsters and then saving the day. Some additional mechanic would need to be incorporated that would enable this action under such a system.

Yep, exactly. Change it to an activated "rest" icon that the player has to click on to rest (in much the same way as we have to double-click on shrines to rest now - and those who don't want to rest will just not click).

If the "wandering monsters" chance is implemented, you could even have DM text or some sort of indicator showing the likelihood of resting in a particular area. A rest spot behind a levered door, for example, might be quite safe, whereas a rest area you discover in the middle of a large, open area, might have a much higher chance of wandering monsters. The "red alert" system could also be a contributing factor here as well.

Kromize
07-18-2009, 10:42 PM
Ranks in Heal would still affect HP regen for all those resting nearby, and ranks in Concentration would have a similar effect.
Just make ranks in heal allow you to use healing kits(on anyone.) and get/give hp to ppl. One use on a person every x minutes tho, you can't just keep slapping on bandages and be good.

You shouldn't get more hp during a rest because of how high ur heal is. that should be the same for everyone. But, the higher the heal, the more hps u can get/give by using a healing kit. This would allow for all people to heal themselves as needed, but, it would still be best for the cleric to do his/her divine job and heal. (:

And yea, take out rest shrines, don't add campsite either. Just give the ability to eat food, drink drinks, and rest every so often. You can't just keep eating and drinking tho. And based on the same rule, add a good timer to hp/mana pots, but make them more effective(hp at least).

That would change this game for the better. No longer would it be a "go go go, drink drink drink, go go go, drink drink drink, go go go, done!" type of game, but more a "go cautiously, rest, eat, drink, heal, go, done!", which I think would be more fun. Then just slim out some mobs, reduce their hp a bit, etc, balance a little here and their, etc, lots of radical fix ideas of mine that you dnd fanbois wouldn't like, and then you have a wonderful game that competes with WOW.

:D

But I don't see that happening becuase the developers of this game are, well, thick? :(

Kromize
07-18-2009, 11:04 PM
Whos gave me neg rep for that post? And why would that post deserve neg rep? I don't get it. Foolish.

Kemoc
08-24-2009, 11:38 AM
/signed
I do not remember exactly which game but this was implemented in Baulders Gate I think. Camp, and there are rolls for wandering monsters you could get rousted out of bed, surprised or not depending on rolls. This is more true to PnP as well I believe.

VirieSquichie
08-24-2009, 01:49 PM
Upon entering a dungeon, the party leader could get X number (set for each quest, and for ease of programming they can just take the current # of shrines in a dungeon and use that figure) of campfire tokens that he/she can activate anywhere in the dungeon. These freebie ones drop on instance exit or death. More available in the store should anyone want to spend points that way.

Each token is consume on use and creates a campsite with a duration, which party members can each use once. I suggest that duration be on the campsite's Examine window or that the fire animation burns lower as time passes so if all that's left are coals you know you're just about out. (I know, animation changing would take more time to code...would be much cooler though)

As a nice bonus this has nothing to do with raising dead party members...never liked that they were so easy to raise at almost every shrine... so dungeons could still have a res shrine here and there if the devs absolutely feel they're necessary still given the Store has them. Or when they make sense in the context of that dungeon's story. I do feel that at the end (post-completion) of every dungeon a res shrine should pop in for folks who died in the final battle to get their loot, but that's mostly because some of those battles have little to do with an individual's skill and this is at the end of the day a game and not real life. Real life has enough hard breaks. :P

kingfisher
08-24-2009, 01:54 PM
/not signed!

turbine should sell the addspace around the shrines to jack-in-the-box. replace the pillars with little boxes that pop up once used.

this way i wont have to wait for my mijo's de mexico to go afk forever and turbine gets a new revenue stream to dump into content (or the new paiz place in maui). its a win-win

salmag
08-24-2009, 06:10 PM
Campsites would be a great idea. Here are a couple of ideas that MIGHT work:

- Every player in group gets a 'flint or bedroll' to carry upon entering dungeon. This allows them to make a campfire, rest, etc. On normal, everyone in group can share everyone else's campfire (players can click on the fire itself - allows six possible rests), slight (5%) risk of wandering monster (if monster DOES attack, then player retains 'flint' for another use); on hard, players can share campfires, however, more risk (10%) of wandering monster (if monster DOES attack, then player loses 'flint'); on elite, no sharing of campfires (players must start their own), increased risk (20%) of wandering monster, flint used up (this is "elite" after all).

- Allow player to search area or use spot prior to making camp. This determines if it is safe or not. The higher the skill, the more the player can determine if it is safe to rest here. If player makes their skill check, risk stated above decreases in half (normal 2%, hard 5%, elite 10%). If player fails their skill check, he/she/it (for WF) can not determine safety.

- Keep resurrection shrines in their respective areas, those areas could automatically be safe zones (no need to search). Player would still need to make camp after being raised.

- Allow spells like Heroes Feast have more of an impact. Guarantee full hit point regeneration along with the other bonuses (including the temp HPs). Summoned animals and monsters stay around until their timers expire (possibly as guards).

What do you think?

Hendrik
08-31-2009, 07:54 AM
In light of a lot of re-coding for campsights I would be happy with;

1. Replace current shrine campfire with an actual campfire.
2. Replace the two shrines with bedroll graphics that act just like the shrines.

This 'might' be an easier thing to accomplish and yet still increase the immersion factor of a dungeon.

loml1217
08-31-2009, 07:58 AM
/signed.

i love this idea, it would definitely bring a PnP feel to the game :)

VonBek
08-31-2009, 08:45 AM
An idea I just had would be to keep some shrines (or a shrine-like mechanic, maybe a well of holy water) in dungeons that are particularly rough, and where it is expected that players will shrine frequently. That way you could have the campsites, but could maybe find (most should be hidden probably?) an area of magical recuperation.

The trick might be implementing camping, without slowing the pace of play in a given quest. I doubt they'd have Smokey the Bear and Ranger Rick revisit every quest, so I like that you added the above thought to your idea. Perhaps older quests with shrines could have the option to call up 0-2 campsites. Newer quests could have 0-? shrines, bird baths, or what plus more generous campsite allowances.

Doomcrew
08-31-2009, 08:58 AM
Like the idea, how about camp fire in lieu of Rest Shrine,
holy ground in lieu of Res shrine. Just my 2 coppers.

Cheers

barghest
08-31-2009, 09:14 AM
...And the ability for rogues or rangers with a "new" skill: Set Traps, to protect from those "random" monster encounters.
just a thought to add to this concept.

sephiroth1084
08-31-2009, 11:20 AM
In light of a lot of re-coding for campsights I would be happy with;

1. Replace current shrine campfire with an actual campfire.
2. Replace the two shrines with bedroll graphics that act just like the shrines.

This 'might' be an easier thing to accomplish and yet still increase the immersion factor of a dungeon.

I'd be in favor of just changing the graphics of shrines, if nothing else. I'd prefer a greater change, but certainly clicking on an open bedroll next to a campfire and getting a /sleep animation is preferable to sitting at some weird shrine thing.

That'd also make available some design space for alternate artwork as well as non-standard resting/raising points. Why is there a lone rez shrine in some areas of some quests? Those could be changed to magical wells, holy altars, unholy altars...all sorts of things.

Shrines SUCK!

Hendrik
08-31-2009, 11:31 AM
I'd be in favor of just changing the graphics of shrines, if nothing else. I'd prefer a greater change, but certainly clicking on an open bedroll next to a campfire and getting a /sleep animation is preferable to sitting at some weird shrine thing.

That'd also make available some design space for alternate artwork as well as non-standard resting/raising points. Why is there a lone rez shrine in some areas of some quests? Those could be changed to magical wells, holy altars, unholy altars...all sorts of things.

Shrines SUCK!

A 'greater' change would take longer and more resources - not that I don't like many of the ideas here.

If we can show the DEVs that there is some community interest here, some cosmetic changes could happen a lot faster and with less potential for negative impact.

Albeit for those instances where an actual Shrine follows the theme of the Quest, a campsite, IMO, can be better used to replace Shrines in the remaining Quests. Still, a good deal of time would be needed to replace them all then to QA it as well ~ still no small undertaking...

I would MUCH rather see a Campsite in a Landscape vs a Shrine for example.

sephiroth1084
08-31-2009, 12:06 PM
A 'greater' change would take longer and more resources - not that I don't like many of the ideas here.

If we can show the DEVs that there is some community interest here, some cosmetic changes could happen a lot faster and with less potential for negative impact.

Albeit for those instances where an actual Shrine follows the theme of the Quest, a campsite, IMO, can be better used to replace Shrines in the remaining Quests. Still, a good deal of time would be needed to replace them all then to QA it as well ~ still no small undertaking...

I would MUCH rather see a Campsite in a Landscape vs a Shrine for example.

I wouldn't expect this sort of change to happen all at once, but we could get some shrines replaced with campsites, magical fountains, altars, whatever little bits at a time, then, if people like it and are interested, the devs could start tooling around with the possibility of changing the mechanic.

Since it wouldn't be a priority, they could work on it as a side project in addition to important stuff across a few mods.

RTS
08-31-2009, 04:58 PM
I too have always thought the shrines to be extremely artificial. If a room has been cleared and can be secured in some fashion, then players should be allowed to risk it. I think giving bonus xp for not resting is a good idea, but punishing those who do is a little extreme. It should be a system that makes sense and is not too complex. Requiring too much camp gear could create issues, but I like the general idea.

RTS
08-31-2009, 05:04 PM
Interestingly if you actually look around the areas of many shrines, you will find a Campfire already there, along with some rocks to sit on. It it the exception to not have a campfire at a shrine site. Next time you run, look around. :)


Having a camp fire is not really the point. I think the idea is to give players the flexibility to rest where they choose. All of us have seen more usefully spots that make more sense. It would ultimately let the players assume the risk of being interrupted by wandering monsters - while simultaneously taking out the artificial nature of the "shrine"

IgorUnchained
08-31-2009, 05:12 PM
I love most of the ideas in this thread. I like having a constant place (shrine-campsite) where a group can rest and resurrect the foolish-brave. I also enjoy the idea of being able to camp, while usine supplies and risking encounters, along the way.
I think it is a slippery slope to require all of the party members to all have to use supplies to make it possible, and I dont like tying it to the starholder. Imagine the SP starved cleric and the zerging barb Starholder who thinks they should keep going on a bit before making camp. I dont want my shrining/resurrecting to be based on the whim of the average PUGer. The rest of the ideas are great though.

Hendrik
08-31-2009, 06:23 PM
I love most of the ideas in this thread. I like having a constant place (shrine-campsite) where a group can rest and resurrect the foolish-brave. I also enjoy the idea of being able to camp, while usine supplies and risking encounters, along the way.
I think it is a slippery slope to require all of the party members to all have to use supplies to make it possible, and I dont like tying it to the starholder. Imagine the SP starved cleric and the zerging barb Starholder who thinks they should keep going on a bit before making camp. I dont want my shrining/resurrecting to be based on the whim of the average PUGer. The rest of the ideas are great though.


To allow one player to dictate when resting occurs is a breeding ground for conflict. No more repeats like we had with Ward Stones, please.

If we could have our current, static, rest area's changed to have a bit more immersion to the surroundings, that would be great. Maybe just Landscapes for starters. Vale and Gianthold, for example, shrines now campsites. More for gameplay/immersion then anything else.

VirieSquichie
09-01-2009, 01:51 PM
To allow one player to dictate when resting occurs is a breeding ground for conflict. No more repeats like we had with Ward Stones, please.

If we could have our current, static, rest area's changed to have a bit more immersion to the surroundings, that would be great. Maybe just Landscapes for starters. Vale and Gianthold, for example, shrines now campsites. More for gameplay/immersion then anything else.

Good point. And I've BEEN that cleric.

Sleeping bag "feat" that gets granted x uses per instance by entering the instance, is individual to each character and could have its uses increased via Turbine Store purchase for those who like that sort of thing?

Garumn
09-01-2009, 10:04 PM
What a fantastic idea - I would love to see this explored a mite...

Rep for you, Sir...

Letrii
09-02-2009, 04:54 AM
Campsites permanently feels wrong. Why would someone leave their tent and bedroll behind them and a fire burning. However, the shrines are monolithic sites of magic that make perfect thematic sense for their permanency, with the cooldown being limitation on the body's ability to withstand the magical forces contained therein.

zuzax
09-04-2009, 10:07 AM
/signed
I think it's ok that this incarnation of D&D has some departures from pnp, but I love the idea of just changing the graphical object of the shrine to a camp-fire or some other non-magical representation of 'rest'.
Great idea Ferr. Hope we can get enough interest to have them look into this. I thnk it would add a little more 'immersiveness' to the game.

sephiroth1084
06-09-2010, 01:13 AM
Campsites permanently feels wrong. Why would someone leave their tent and bedroll behind them and a fire burning. However, the shrines are monolithic sites of magic that make perfect thematic sense for their permanency, with the cooldown being limitation on the body's ability to withstand the magical forces contained therein.
Well...in many of these cases, having permanent monolithic artifacts doesn't make sense. What are these things doing in the sewers that have become newly infested by kobolds? Why are there these magic stone-things hanging out in people's homes?

I was thinking, while rereading this thread, that one of the attractions of the shrine look is that they are easily spotted from a great distance, so something would be needed to replicate that. Perhaps a pillar of smoke from the campfire? Or tallish tents?

Hey devs, I know you have a lot on your plates at the moment, but this idea seems to have gotten quite a bit of support...

AyumiAmakusa
06-09-2010, 01:22 AM
Well...in many of these cases, having permanent monolithic artifacts doesn't make sense. What are these things doing in the sewers that have become newly infested by kobolds? Why are there these magic stone-things hanging out in people's homes?

I was thinking, while rereading this thread, that one of the attractions of the shrine look is that they are easily spotted from a great distance, so something would be needed to replicate that. Perhaps a pillar of smoke from the campfire? Or tallish tents?

Hey devs, I know you have a lot on your plates at the moment, but this idea seems to have gotten quite a bit of support...

You've got a good point right there. I've always thought it was strange that a shrine (or two) would be positioned so strategically in a dungeon. I mean, who in the world put it there? At least with campsites, you could RP (if you want) that the previous party left their camping gear behind because it was too heavy and that we could 'salvage' and use it. Or, make the site empty, (with shrine icons on map), and when anyone wants to rest, clicking on the center of the room would cause them to 'Build tent and campfire' and the whole party can rest.

iamsamoth0
06-09-2010, 01:37 AM
/signed
As long as they bring back the spinning.
And bring in the dedicated Campfire Design Team. Twenty-four strong please.

Lagin
06-09-2010, 01:47 AM
If DDO was to be rebuilt, it would be interesting to explore the concept of campfires per quest instead of fixed shrines.

That is, the party would be allowed to establish encampments wherever they wanted (given certain limitation like space, distance from foes, etc.) by passing up a vote. It has some advantages (more realistic, closer to D&D, no more "use or lose", etc.) but also has some disadvantages (politics, more difficult to balance around, etc.) so it depends on which ends up being preferred.

The number of campfires would change from quest to quest and not be a fixed amount.

Right on!, and to further that thought, the campsites could be custom "built" to the type of quest, the house it belongs to, the types of quest related features!

Also, as in D&D, a campsite can be over run!

sephiroth1084
06-09-2010, 02:53 AM
You've got a good point right there. I've always thought it was strange that a shrine (or two) would be positioned so strategically in a dungeon. I mean, who in the world put it there? At least with campsites, you could RP (if you want) that the previous party left their camping gear behind because it was too heavy and that we could 'salvage' and use it. Or, make the site empty, (with shrine icons on map), and when anyone wants to rest, clicking on the center of the room would cause them to 'Build tent and campfire' and the whole party can rest.
Well, most of the dungeons we're invading have, you know, residents temporary or semi-temporary who are likely using such rest areas. No reason to puzzle over some unoccupied (or recently and forcefully vacated) sleeping quarters.

Kistilan
06-09-2010, 03:49 AM
Well, most of the dungeons we're invading have, you know, residents temporary or semi-temporary who are likely using such rest areas. No reason to puzzle over some unoccupied (or recently and forcefully vacated) sleeping quarters.

Just quoting someone.

Just figured out a mechanic for campsites. Set campsite up. Type /rest. Camping begins and timer counts down from x minutes where x is the total rest time allowed in quest. Thus, harder quests receive more rest time, but rest is determined by party. Change all in shrines to ressurction locations

Dingdongtudelu
06-09-2010, 04:06 AM
Brilliant idea!

This is what the focus in development should be on, in my opinion, instead of the addition of bigger and badder loot. The immersive athmosphere of an mmorpg is very important for keeping its playerbase. What is the reason for people playing this DDO over any other mmorpg out there? D&D. The more you approach the original pen&paper feel, the more you'll keep your customers.

I remember how odd I thought it was that I could only rest at a specific point in the quest, where I could just break camp in any other D&D game and rest right there. What's the reason for only being able to sit down at specific locations in a quest? Will the floor explode beneath me if I sit down outside of the rest shrine? At the time, I dismissed the idea, because an mmorpg has to deviate from PnP at some points, to preserve playability, right? This suggestion makes for a much better implementation of the PnP solution though. I'd love to see it ingame!

Here's to hoping this gets attention!

+1

Kepli_Moonshadow
06-09-2010, 05:47 AM
/signed
/signed
/signed

I absolutely LOVE this idea!

C'mon devs, PLEEEEASE!!! PICK THIS ONE! GOOD IDEA ALERT! HELLOOOOO..............

:D

sephiroth1084
06-09-2010, 06:46 AM
Just quoting someone.

Just figured out a mechanic for campsites. Set campsite up. Type /rest. Camping begins and timer counts down from x minutes where x is the total rest time allowed in quest. Thus, harder quests receive more rest time, but rest is determined by party. Change all in shrines to ressurction locations
I like this one.

Maybe camping gear could become a new item to be found and purchased, with better versions available here and there, but not as a consumable (dislike the idea of a group going into a quest and discovering that they can't rest due to having run out of camping gear).

It would be usable anywhere, so long as there are no monsters in the immediate vicinity (perhaps usable anywhere, with no caveat, to avoid some of the same problems we're facing with dungeon alert), and anyone may /sleep (or click on a bedroll) to "shrine".

It would take the same amount of time shrining currently takes, but would consume a portion of the time or shrines allotted to a particular quest. Normal and Casual quests would have the allotted time reset after 10 minutes.

Campsites would disappear shortly after the whole group has left the location.

Special (named?) sets of gear could be implemented that shortened the time to rest, provided some buff when used (maybe Heroes' Feast?), or that granted an additional charge/time per quest, essentially allowing for an additional shrine.