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Zaius
07-06-2009, 11:24 PM
Dear Devs- fix Force Missiles.

As of now, a force spec'd caster can achieve decent dps compared to Fire/Cold or Acid/Elec spec'd casters with a combination of magic missile and force missiles. The damage is less than the elements can achieve, but that is usually made up for by the fact that nothing in the game can stop the force aside from the shield or nightshield spells.

Yes, the level 1 shield spells. The very same that anyone fresh off of Korthos Island can pick up a shield x3 clicky and then never have to worry about magic missiles again.

Except that they also don't have to worry about Force Missiles ever again either, should they happen to run into them somehow, say in pvp. Shield states- "Grants a +4 shield bonus to Armor Class and protection from magic missiles." it doesn't mention force missiles at all. Likewise Nightshield states- "Grants a +1 resistance bonus to saves (+2 at 6th level, +3 at 9th) and protection from magic missiles."

My suggestion is that the devs need to either clarify in the description that the level 1, clickable Shield or Nightshield spells are intended to nullify force damage completely (outside of rare traps or force rituals) or fix them so that force missiles can get through.

Please respond.

Mr_Ed7
07-06-2009, 11:33 PM
The item stops force missles then?

Zaius
07-06-2009, 11:40 PM
The item casts Shield for a minute which stops magic missiles and force missiles, yep

Mr_Ed7
07-06-2009, 11:42 PM
I do not know what to make of that...

I mean ....yeah I guess...:confused:

Lithic
07-07-2009, 12:27 AM
Isnt the only monster with shield Velah? Or do you care about it for PvP reasons?

FluffyCalico
07-07-2009, 12:43 AM
Isnt the only monster with shield Velah? Or do you care about it for PvP reasons?

Mantel in VoD and Madstone will stop them also

Zaius
07-07-2009, 12:57 AM
Mantles stop level 4 spells and below but that's clearly stated. I remember a few other monsters having shield too, it's not common, but it happens. Mostly I'm peeved about it for pvp, a force spec mage has no chance if everyone in the game can easily get immunity. Also the description of shield and nightshield should at least state the additional benefit if it is somehow intended.

VKhaun
07-07-2009, 05:39 AM
Since force missiles aren't obviously just bigger magic missiles.



Why would you make a force spec for PvP?... I don't really get why you'd make a force spec to begin with. The need for MM/FM is so situational it's like intentionally lowering your own effectiveness vs spreading out among all the elements and using the best tool for the job.

FluffyCalico
07-07-2009, 05:43 AM
Why would you make a force spec .

WF as force is tied to repair

VKhaun
07-07-2009, 05:46 AM
WF as force is tied to repair

So?... That's why you don't ignore force/repair, that's not a reason to spec it. Just with +40% enhance and a potency item on I have yet to not fully heal a WF with one shot of reconstruct. I'd have to log in to actually check the amount I heal for, but you do not need to give up other enhancement lines to get crit and crit mod for repair spells, just to still have underpar and situational damage.

EDIT--
'not fully heal' is misleading. I mean in-combat someone is damaged.
I don't think I hit a WF barb for 100% of his HP with one spell.

Tickler
07-09-2009, 07:09 PM
To piggyback on the whole "Force is an afterthought" theme:

Why aren't there any Superior Impulse IV Rings in the game? (at least I haven't seen any).

We have plenty of items for all the other elements but there are hardly any Force based items outside of Superior Kinetic Lore Weapons.

I looked over the list of Known items for the new Mod, and there are belts and trinkets that help Fire, Ice, Acid, and Electricity; but again, no Force.

Having played a Force speced sorc for many years now, I can say that it is a fun way to go. DPS of our two spells (MM and FM) shot consecutively over and over again does nice damage to many red named bosses that our elemental counterparts have trouble with. Polar Ray - with all the Glaciation pumps - may be more effective though (some guys are criting for 1600 damage on a Polar Ray). Force sorcs pretty consistently do 300 per Force Missile Casting (1 missile crits, the other 3 do regular damage) & 150 per Magic Missile Casting (1-2 missiles crit, the other 3-4 do regular)
I haven't done the exact speed calculations but it appears that I can shoot both a MM and a FM in the same time it takes another Sorc to cast 1 Polar Ray. Additionally, MM and FM don't miss like rays can due to slow ray travel speed and a monster moving out of the way or another getting in front of the ray for a body block.

Still... despite these advantages vs. Red Names that don't have Shield, Night Shield, or Mantle - Force spec is very weak vs. Trash Mobs. Even as a Force speced caster, I'll often lay down a fire wall, use a cone of cold, or spam FoD to kill the trash rather than run around FM and MM everything.

Hopefully, the Devs will:
1) Allow some Force friendly items to drop in the game
2) Fix the Nightshield/Shield issue with FM
3) Consider removing the cap on the number of missile we get to cast

Ghoste
07-09-2009, 07:16 PM
So?... That's why you don't ignore force/repair, that's not a reason to spec it. Just with +40% enhance and a potency item on I have yet to not fully heal a WF with one shot of reconstruct. I'd have to log in to actually check the amount I heal for, but you do not need to give up other enhancement lines to get crit and crit mod for repair spells, just to still have underpar and situational damage.

EDIT--
'not fully heal' is misleading. I mean in-combat someone is damaged.
I don't think I hit a WF barb for 100% of his HP with one spell.
Depends how many wf you run with. For those who run with one or two at most, reconstruct does the job nicely. For the rare cases of those who run as main healer for many wf, repair mass spells are greatly benefited by the enhancement line.

Baralai2345
07-10-2009, 10:40 PM
Honestly more force spells would be nice, perfect one to add for a little AoE would be Issac's Missile Storm and Issac's Improved Missile Storm. I don't see the reason for such neglect of a key spell, I don't care what anyone says, but force spells were key to any caster character I played in any D&D game.

VKhaun
07-10-2009, 11:15 PM
When I first got the game, someone joked that the STK boss was an undead construct, and that repair spells would damage him like heals on regular undead. Since then I have always thought of force/repair as giving a lot less then fire/cold or acid/electrical. Especially the way everyone uses reconstruct scrolls.

Though with Turbines recent track record I think we should keep quiet on that, or they'll nerf reconstruct rather then put in something better for the repair line.