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Hadrian
07-04-2009, 10:46 PM
This is a rough outline of a level 20 paladin I plan to make next mod. I have not decided on some of the small details, such as skill point distribution. Many of the minor details are likely to change several times.

Basic Goals:
1) Make the most of paladin DPS bonuses (KotC, capstone, divine might, exalted smite, TWF khopesh)
2) Survivability via a lot of healing amplification (human race) and self healing via Lay on Hands
3) Make the most of guard effects from green steel and other items for both defense and offense (concordant op and freezing ice are priority)
4) Possibly self healing with paladin cure spells fueled by guards such as the torc or concordant opposition

Armor class does not matter to this build, but items that give DR or healing amplification are desirable. The paladin AC and resistance auras are planned to be taken, but with points being so tight it is likely they will be respec’ed away from later on in favor of high end damage increasing enhancements.

I will be taking the paladin capstone and Knight of the Chalice III. I will be taking divine might and exalted smite as high as possible.

This character assumes +2 tomes for all stats, but at the rate they drop now I don't consider that a problem for anyone who has a 32-point build.

I am also hoping that it is possible to get a +4 charisma tome next mod in order to be able to reach the charisma for divine might 4. If this is not the case, it is not a major problem for the build since the APs are tight as it is.


Level 20 Human Paladin, Khopesh TWF
Strength 16 [+4 (levels 4, 8, 12, 16) +6 item +2 tome = 28]
Dexterity 15 [+6 item +2 tome = 23] (24 if +3 tome)
Constitution 14 [+6 item +2 tome = 22]
Intelligence 8 [+2 tome = 10]
Wisdom 8 [+2 tome +6 item = 16]
Charisma 15 [+6 item +2 tome +3 enhancement] = 26 (+1 level up at 20, then move the human adaptability to strength/whatever needed)

Base Skills (excluding all items and tomes, but with +2 int tome bonus for skill points):
Concentration 29
Jump 13 (balance instead?)
Use Magic Device 16

Feats (in no particular order):
Toughness
Power Attack
Extend Spell (or empower healing?)
TWF
ITWF
GTWF
IC: Slash
Khopesh


Enhancements:
Level 16 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Divine Might III 6 points
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I 2 points
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III 12 points
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I 1 point
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good II 3 points
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands III 6 points
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III 6 points
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II 3 points
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion II 3 points
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II 6 points
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II 3 points
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning II 3 points
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice III 8 points
Enhancement: Paladin Faith: Whichever II 6 points
Enhancement: Energy of the Templar II 3 points



This totals 71 points spent and leaves 9 points for the capstone and exalted smite. (Thanks to Steele for helping me with the enhancement costs.)

In order to take the capstone, divine might 4 and exalted smite 4, I would need 16 total APs, so 7 more than what I currently have left. This could be reached by dropping Human Improved Recovery to level 2 and focus of good to level 1 if I find that my survivability is acceptable. Most likely I will not be able to meet the cha requirement for Divine Might 4, however. Only 3 points more would be needed in the case of Capstone + DM 3 + ES 4, and this could be reached in various ways without losing any healing amp.

The paladin auras may be taken early on and dumped later for better DPS enhancements. The concentration aura may be important for healing in combat, and will probably stay depending on how the character plays in practice.

It’s very likely that this list will change a bit as I get used to the character while gaining levels.

Significant items for this build include any healing amplification items, including a triple positive weapon with 30% as the 3rd tier when damage reduction is not an issue. Depending on the viability of self-healing, non-weapon devotion items and concordant opposition/torc may combine to add a lot of survivability.

Gornn
07-04-2009, 10:50 PM
Consider waiting until mod 9 to build this character.

I only say that...because if you do, you can see how common unbound +3 tomes are.

And if they are common, and you urn a LOT of high level content, you can reasonably expect to get a +3 dex at some point...and if you use a +3 dex instead of a +2, you get 2 extra build points at creation.

Just a thought.

Maybe pump cha to 16 and hit 20 with a +4? Who knows.

Just a thought.

Hadrian
07-04-2009, 11:00 PM
Consider waiting until mod 9 to build this character.

I only say that...because if you do, you can see how common unbound +3 tomes are.

And if they are common, and you urn a LOT of high level content, you can reasonably expect to get a +3 dex at some point...and if you use a +3 dex instead of a +2, you get 2 extra build points at creation.

Just a thought.

Maybe pump cha to 16 and hit 20 with a +4? Who knows.

Just a thought.

I didn't mention +3 tomes at all. :)

The plan for CHA is 15 at the start, +1 at level 20 for 16 base. Basically the same thing but I get an extra point of CON this way.

In the long run, all that this change would do is change my human adaptability attribute to come up with the same stats. The even number dex = +1 reflex save which is helpful on elite traps, and putting it anywhere else gives me an odd number if I can assume a +3 creation tome for something as vital as GTWF. The only way this could help is if I could assume both +4 cha and str tomes, and then I would end up with +1 str mod in the end.

Gornn
07-04-2009, 11:10 PM
I didn't mention +3 tomes at all. :)

The plan for CHA is 15 at the start, +1 at level 20 for 16 base. Basically the same thing but I get an extra point of CON this way.

I know you didn't. All I said was wait and see how common the unbound +3s become...if they are as common as +2s became after Meridia, then adding 1 +3 aint bad (since the build is to 20 anyway).

If they remain rare, keep it at 15.

It's not going to be like it is now...where the most epic builds REQUIRE +3 tomes which only drop in raid chests. +3 unbound tomes will be dropping in quests...

Anyway, it was just a wait and see suggestion. :) Take it as you will! Either way, I'm building pretty much the same dude come mod 9.

Hadrian
07-04-2009, 11:17 PM
I know you didn't. All I said was wait and see how common the unbound +3s become

As I said, though maybe I added it a bit late, all it does is change what my human adaptability enhancement goes to unless I can assume +4 tomes in two stats. That's obviously a stretch without confirmation of +4 tomes being in the game.

I am just looking at what results and stating it back as this is how I like to figure out what to do. It's not meant to sound like I am trampling on your suggestion, but calculations come out sounding impersonal, I guess :). I do appreciate the thought and what it lead me to examine.

SteeleTrueheart
07-05-2009, 05:12 AM
Enhancements:

- The Human Improved recovery line costs 2/4/6 = 12 points for all three while you have 6 points listed (the third level simply costs too much for me to advise getting it, I am 'on-the-fence' about the second level)
- KotC III requires (that you don't have listed) a Paladin Faith II (6 points) and Paladin: Energy of the Templar II (3 points)

Paladins are always tight on AP and with PrE's coming this will not change.

Devotion is usually overkill as self healing via SP is usually not done by a paladin in the midst of combat. Optimally that CSW will do 50HP cure to you. But in the time it takes to cast the mob will probably do that much more damage to you. You will wand whip more often than self cast between battles.

Since you are going to be TWF khopeshes, you may want to think about your feat choices. Power Attack and dual weilding large weapons will give every attack a -9 penalty. Your strength is not that high and DF only gives a +3 bonus. At level 20 we may be getting higher AC mobs to worry about (otherwise what is the point of a kensai to hit bonus being so high?)

All that said this is very similar to a build I have just made and it is a lot of fun, even if the AC leaves much to be desired.

Hadrian
07-05-2009, 02:04 PM
To-hit isn't too much of a problem. Power attack is -5 to-hit but may be turned off for high AC targets. DT armor with destruction as an effect is possible, and I'll be playing a full BAB class.

BAB 20 + 9 strength + 5 weapon + 3 DF + 4 GH 1 rage = 42

This means that with -9 from PA and large weapons, I will be dealing with a 33 to hit. +5 destruction would let me do 38 to-hit without giving up any DPS.

I am still up in the air about paladin devotion. It's not hard to jump back for a moment and cast, since I do it all the time with my current ranger. The benefit is that you don't need to switch weapons as you do for a wand.

Even without pally devotion, though, I would be talking about 30% healing amp base + as much as 60% on items. I am not sure if items stack additively or multiplicatively with eachother or with the base.

Thank you for finding my errors with the enhancements. I will adjust them now.

Hadrian
07-05-2009, 07:14 PM
So I don't seem so harsh, let me go through the thought process on the starting stats in Gornn's advice really quickly.

Gornn said that if +3 tomes are so common that I can count on them for GTWF, then I should start at 14 dex and take 16 starting CHA with the extra 2 points.

In the results, then I can assume another +3 tome easy enough if I can count on them that well.

Then 16, 14, 14, 8, 8, 16 allows me to put 5 level ups in str instead of 4 in str and 1 in cha.

Then if I assume +3 tomes, a +3 str gives me 16+5+3+6 = 30
Charisma is 16 + 3(tome)+3(enhancement)+6 = 28 (with +4 cha tome +1 enhancement to dex instead)

Previously it would have been 16 +4 + 3 +6 +1(enhancement) = 30
15+1(level)+3(tome)+2(enhancement)+6(item) = 27
+1 dex modifier over above


So the +4 cha tome, if it is possible to get, would give me divine might 4 and the same modifier for all stats. Failure to get any of the 3 +3 tomes above would not matter in the 15 dex case, but could be a disaster in the 14 dex case.

So, yes, if I could expect to get +3 str, dex and charisma tomes by level 20 and found +4 tomes do not exist or are absurdly rare, I would consider the 14 dex path for the additional charisma modifier at the cost of 1 dex modifier.

Mhalak
07-06-2009, 10:03 AM
Make the most of paladin DPS bonuses (KotC, capstone, divine might, exalted smite, TWF khopesh)

love the idea of maximizing all the paladin DPS bonuses. i've rolled one that is similar but I went with elf for the nice scimitar enhancements (Valenar Elf Melee Attack & Damage) coming for elves in M9. Undying Court (another +1 to Scimitar) and Undying Call is a nice bonus as well for elves.

My stats are similar to yours. Gimping my wisdom & intelligence were a concern early, but really hasn't been an issue (so far). Energy of the templar and a wisdom clicky get the trick done.

Since I don't have the Khopesh feat, I'm kicking around trying to squeeze in Force of Personality. The double dip for the Charisma bonus to my Will save is nice, but I am unsure if that will be overkill at end game with the Paladin's already high saves. Not sure if its worth losing Extend or Toughness to get it.

Hadrian
07-06-2009, 07:42 PM
Since I don't have the Khopesh feat, I'm kicking around trying to squeeze in Force of Personality. The double dip for the Charisma bonus to my Will save is nice, but I am unsure if that will be overkill at end game with the Paladin's already high saves. Not sure if its worth losing Extend or Toughness to get it.

The khopesh feat fits in because of the human bonus feat. Given otherwise identical builds, the human will always have an extra feat over the elf.

Those damage boosts are nice, but the loss of the khopesh may counter that. On top of this, your racial stat becomes dex instead of anything you want it to be.

Most importantly to the build concept, you lose a lot of always-on healing amplification that you get through being a human. This is where you will get your APs for damage bonuses, though.

Hadrian
07-07-2009, 05:31 AM
I might consider

Str 16
Dex 15
Con 12
Int 8
Wis 8
Cha 16

This costs me 20 hit points in the end, but allows for a higher potential str modifier. I am starting to convice myself that those 20 HPs will be insignificant.