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Bogenbroom
07-01-2009, 01:12 PM
Its been mentioned before, but wizards (and sorcs) wandering around dual wielding clubs is kinda silly, and there really are no viable wizard staves in the game. I would love to see some thought put into real wizard staves.

My first thought was something along the lines of a container. You get an initial cruddy staff that can only hold 1 (or maybe 2) enchantments. As you get higher level you can find staves that let you hold more, and/or those better staves are what controls the level of the enchantment. So, for example, I staff with a level 1 wizzy staff of crudiness. I can get it enchanted (maybe by adding a rune or whatever) with spell pen. So I now have a staff of spell pen 1. Later, with a better, level 5 staff of less crudiness, I can enchant is with a combustion and spell pen so I have a Combustion 5 staff of Spell pen 5.

But then I also was thinking that a model similar to the DT armor wouldn't be bad. Not so much a container, but a simple item that can be enchanted with runes or some such. I'm not saying blind enchanting, not that part of the DT model... However, even with a method similar to DT, it would be nice to see certain items capable of supporting certain types of enchantments and not others... so those uber staves capable of support more varied enchantments would be more valuable.

Them's my thoughts.

sisterjinx
07-01-2009, 01:21 PM
How about the ones wielding metal weapons (like greataxes). Now I never played 3.5 so I don't know if it changed but my DM sure never woulda let my spells work while I was trying to carry something metal. lol

spifflove
07-01-2009, 01:23 PM
And very good thoughts they are.

Bogenbroom
07-01-2009, 01:23 PM
How about the ones wielding metal weapons (like greataxes). Now I never played 3.5 so I don't know if it changed but my DM sure never woulda let my spells work while I was trying to carry something metal. lol

Oh heck yeah. I have one of my wizzies with a spell pen 7 bastard sword. I keep it and use it because it is goofy.

VKhaun
07-01-2009, 01:23 PM
Its been mentioned before, but wizards (and sorcs) wandering around dual wielding clubs is kinda silly, and there really are no viable wizard staves in the game. I would love to see some thought put into real wizard staves.

My first thought was something along the lines of a container. You get an initial cruddy staff that can only hold 1 (or maybe 2) enchantments. As you get higher level you can find staves that let you hold more, and/or those better staves are what controls the level of the enchantment. So, for example, I staff with a level 1 wizzy staff of crudiness. I can get it enchanted (maybe by adding a rune or whatever) with spell pen. So I now have a staff of spell pen 1. Later, with a better, level 5 staff of less crudiness, I can enchant is with a combustion and spell pen so I have a Combustion 5 staff of Spell pen 5.

But then I also was thinking that a model similar to the DT armor wouldn't be bad. Not so much a container, but a simple item that can be enchanted with runes or some such. I'm not saying blind enchanting, not that part of the DT model... However, even with a method similar to DT, it would be nice to see certain items capable of supporting certain types of enchantments and not others... so those uber staves capable of support more varied enchantments would be more valuable.

Them's my thoughts.


Your ideas are interesting, but the devs will never do it when they can just put in static loot staffs with ridiculous stats on par with two weapons. It would be 1,000% times easier to go back and change the existing staff in a loot list and up it's stats. Meltwood in WW could have Superior Corrosion II on it and greater acid lore. Especially with spray of acid coming in as a lv1 spell in mod9. Tinder and Lightning Rod could be buffed up. WW, STK, Catacombs, TR, all have staves at low levels they could use to cater to all types of casters. Lots of staves in the game for them to upgrade... if they wanted to.

Thrudh
07-01-2009, 01:37 PM
Its been mentioned before, but wizards (and sorcs) wandering around dual wielding clubs is kinda silly, and there really are no viable wizard staves in the game. I would love to see some thought put into real wizard staves.

My first thought was something along the lines of a container. You get an initial cruddy staff that can only hold 1 (or maybe 2) enchantments. As you get higher level you can find staves that let you hold more, and/or those better staves are what controls the level of the enchantment. So, for example, I staff with a level 1 wizzy staff of crudiness. I can get it enchanted (maybe by adding a rune or whatever) with spell pen. So I now have a staff of spell pen 1. Later, with a better, level 5 staff of less crudiness, I can enchant is with a combustion and spell pen so I have a Combustion 5 staff of Spell pen 5.

But then I also was thinking that a model similar to the DT armor wouldn't be bad. Not so much a container, but a simple item that can be enchanted with runes or some such. I'm not saying blind enchanting, not that part of the DT model... However, even with a method similar to DT, it would be nice to see certain items capable of supporting certain types of enchantments and not others... so those uber staves capable of support more varied enchantments would be more valuable.

Them's my thoughts.

Great idea... we need a staff crafting system like the DT armor or Shroud... However, we'll need 4 or more slots to equal the power provided by carrying two clubs, or two Greensteel items, and exceptional bonuses need to be an option in there as well (so we can replace our +9 CHA or +9 INT shroud weapons)

Thrudh
07-01-2009, 01:38 PM
Your ideas are interesting, but the devs will never do it when they can just put in static loot staffs with ridiculous stats on par with two weapons. It would be 1,000% times easier to go back and change the existing staff in a loot list and up it's stats. Meltwood in WW could have Superior Corrosion II on it and greater acid lore. Especially with spray of acid coming in as a lv1 spell in mod9. Tinder and Lightning Rod could be buffed up. WW, STK, Catacombs, TR, all have staves at low levels they could use to cater to all types of casters. Lots of staves in the game for them to upgrade... if they wanted to.

You're right... it would be easier to just create (and upgrade existing) staffs with enough power to rival two Shroud weapons...

OnyxBMW
07-04-2009, 05:23 PM
I was wondering about this, when I finally found out that you could, in fact, dual-weild 2 scepters without penalty.

If you ever allow 2 1 hand weapons, esp to be so universally used, then your 2h weapons should be roughly double the power to even them out, and I was wondering if this was the case.

I support the idea of at least buffing staves to offer up to 4 stats to rival 2 1h weapons in stats, esp. since staves aren't used as combat weapons.

A crafting system would be a bit too complicated, but I imagine it could be done and would solve the issue as well.

VKhaun
07-04-2009, 05:50 PM
The easy solution is a single crafting alchemical ritual.


two one hand weapons bound and attuned
One staff bound and attuned
X of collectible 1
Y of collectible 2
-------------------
Becomes staff with 'caster related' bonuses of the above two. Requires the highest level requirement of them all to equip it. Plus <insert something to gain from doing the ritual>. 3 clicks of a random spell at CL=level requirement. +1 all DC's stacks with focus. Whatever. Something that it's better and not just equal, to be worth the ingredients and shards.

sephiroth1084
07-04-2009, 06:04 PM
I'd definitely like to see a staff with:
-potency
-spell pen
-inherent stat
-arcane lore
-school focus

Obviously relevantly high levels of each of those. While this seems unreasonable at first blush, we already have GS weapons that encompass nearly everything a melee character could want in a weapon: att, dam, special damage, AC, and useful spell clicky.

Angelus_dead
07-04-2009, 06:05 PM
The easy solution is a single crafting alchemical ritual.
Becomes staff with 'caster related' bonuses of the above two. Requires the highest level requirement of them all to equip it. Plus <insert something to gain from doing the ritual>. 3 clicks of a random spell at CL=level requirement. +1 all DC's stacks with focus. Whatever. Something that it's better and not just equal, to be worth the ingredients and shards.
That's not really a solution, because it gives the player hardly any incentive to do the ritual. All he gets out of it is saving one spot in his inventory, but he loses out on the flexibility to put a different item in one hand. +1 inventory isn't worth meltings two good scepters into a staff.

sephiroth1084
07-04-2009, 06:47 PM
That's not really a solution, because it gives the player hardly any incentive to do the ritual. All he gets out of it is saving one spot in his inventory, but he loses out on the flexibility to put a different item in one hand. +1 inventory isn't worth meltings two good scepters into a staff.

I think the entire notion/discussion is of a purely aesthetic nature: wizards typically wield staves of power, not pairs of clubs or scepters.

VKhaun
07-04-2009, 06:56 PM
^
That... and I even said add something to make it worth the ingredients.

Paleale
07-04-2009, 07:20 PM
How about duct tape? You can tape the 2 clubs or scepters together.

cm2_supernova
07-04-2009, 07:21 PM
I heart my caster because I am Dual Weilding a CHA 9 bastard sword and a Potency Rapier...all while running around in a mitheral chain shirt.

Rickpa
07-04-2009, 07:26 PM
It seems that most quarterstaves have great weapon effects, or one of two essential caster effects. The normal configuration before level 9 is a manna club in the left hand, and a spell school focus, or potency item in the right. Then after level 9, we have a pearl of power 10, and a spell penetration item replaces the weapon in the left hand. The dual wielding mage is the only good option, and that's sad.

Lunewann
07-04-2009, 07:50 PM
Hmmmmm here is my 2 cents worth....

Staves are what we all belive a wizard represents... Although in this game it is more practical to use two weapons, defently when you wish to cast scrolls aswell.
I mean all good casters normally have a stock-pile, be they heal/reconstruction/greater hero.... or what ever.
It is much easier to keep your most important things be it spell pen or potency.... jeez even ya +9 stat in one hand and a scroll in the other than it is to try and cast a scroll with a two-handed weapon... because it just can't be done.

Lune Out.

Thrudh
07-04-2009, 08:01 PM
How about duct tape? You can tape the 2 clubs or scepters together.

+1 rep for you! :)

winsom
07-05-2009, 02:08 AM
a new eldritch ritual to combine two 1-handed weapons with arcane abilities into a staff with the abilities of both. Then our wizards could look more wizardly.

Lorien_the_First_One
07-05-2009, 02:45 AM
How about the ones wielding metal weapons (like greataxes). Now I never played 3.5 so I don't know if it changed but my DM sure never woulda let my spells work while I was trying to carry something metal. lol

The metal thing disappeared in 3.x


a new eldritch ritual to combine two 1-handed weapons with arcane abilities into a staff with the abilities of both. Then our wizards could look more wizardly.

This idea I like.

Bogenbroom
07-06-2009, 01:23 PM
Assuming, of course, that Wizards wielding staves instead of dual clubs is a desired outcome, then the staves should have something to compensate for the loss of flexibility dual wielding clubs allows. Maybe in a non-caster direction. Like, say, 4 slots for caster type enhancements (making up for the 2 for each hand) and clickie type slots and/or a defensive type slot. Add an acid guard or fearsome to it.

Just a thought.

Xionanx
07-06-2009, 02:56 PM
Personally I'd like to see a general weapon and item crafting system put in place.

I used to have a Wizard I played in tabletop that wielded a Large Falchion with monkey grip. Yeah, it was a little odd but it added to my characters flavor.

I would LOVE to be able to make a variety of weapons that would be usefull to me while at the same time being graphically "different" then what I see everyone else running around with.

Maybe add a "stone of change" recipe where you can put a weapon in with a "form" to change a "+2 Club of Superior Potency V" into a "+2 Axe of Superior Potency V".

Galantdramon
07-06-2009, 03:33 PM
They will never give us (alright, maybe, but only a WF should bother holding their breath) a functional crafting system.

As for what a 'real staff of power' should look like, next time you go to the Shroud, check the Yellow Wizard bones out, and look at -that-...now that is a real mage stick...heh

Or the radiance scepter in Rainbow...that in a staff I would love.

Yes, when I think of 'wizard' I think of 'two-handed stick of magely power' not 'pair of random things that happen to have mage bonuses'.

No, I really don't expect them to ever do anything to fix that.

(yes, just on the off <bleep>ing chance I have kept almost every collectable I've ever found, but I mostly play 'forges, and we can hold our breaths a -really- long time)

Honestly though, GS for melees has everything and the kitchen sink attached to it, plus a really neat clicky or 'occasional on hit' effect...or both.

The caster version (arcane or divine) has almost nothing...heck, I can get higher lore and potency from random chests than what I can get with a set of large devil scales.

Sure, with a full T3, we can get +9 to a casting stat...I would rather have Greater Arcane Lore, or Greater Potency (Sup.Pot is better but my cleric uses BB and Heal so GP), or Spell Penetration.

Heck, last I looked, you couldn't get full Potency or Lore at all with GS, meaning Skivver and Green Blade for lore in a weapon, and potency not at all.

Yeah, mages really get some good stuff...and most of it is from random chest pulls.

Also, it would really be nice if there was something for casters (divine or arcane) that -didn't- require us to be 12~14 before we could even start trying to get it...most crafted stuff is really only "pick your end rewards" rather than actual crafting, and that's all Shroud or higher.


Galantdramon
-----------------
What, I'm supposed to put something here?

EKKM
07-06-2009, 03:43 PM
Personally I'd like to see a general weapon and item crafting system put in place.

I used to have a Wizard I played in tabletop that wielded a Large Falchion with monkey grip. Yeah, it was a little odd but it added to my characters flavor.



+1 rep for knowing what monkey grip actually does (and having a large falchion wielding wizzie).

sephiroth1084
07-06-2009, 10:04 PM
One thing I'd like would be for the weapons on the corpses in the Shroud to become available as end rewards for the quest.