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comotose
06-01-2009, 10:51 PM
I have had a this concept in my head for a while. First off I know it would be gear intensive but I am wondering if it would even be doable before I start it.

The idea is a Sword and Board Barbarian who jacks his DR as high as possible. Gets a respectable AC but nothing ridiculous, and Stack as many of the different Guards as I can get my hands on. Anyway do you think it could work? Any feedback on the general idea would be appreciated.

Jay203
06-01-2009, 10:56 PM
well, here's the thing
ac and barbarians don't mix (barb rage and watch your ac drop!)
wf dr and barbarian dr don't stack

if you really want high dr, try going for wf fighter going stalwart defender =)

Noctus
06-02-2009, 05:21 AM
Guard effects and having an AC in actually working range does not work well together.

DR + guards = fine
AC + guards = you invest resources to hinder yourself


and last, but not least:

ac and barbarians don't mix (barb rage and watch your ac drop!)
wf dr and barbarian dr don't stack

Samadhi
06-02-2009, 06:09 AM
I have a build with high DR / piles of guards. It is very fun.

The build was posted here:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=161089

Although this build was before DT armor and the like, so the prospects of it have actually improved since then (and I actually used an essence of cleansing to get even more guards on a 2nd GS item as well).

I don't know how you expect to work AC into this though, that is counter-intuitive to the whole idea that you want to get hit.

The only thing I dislike about the build is having to put up with the smack-talkers that have never heard of build originality. (and no evasion; if I were going to rebuild post-MOD 8 I would have dropped the extra feats from fighter levels and went for 2 rogue for UMD/evasion - maybe lockpicking too if I could fit it).

comotose
06-02-2009, 10:25 AM
Yeah I was not going for an amazing godly ac. I guess I should have specified all of that more clearly. Basicly i mean respectable as in not ****. so that im not getting beat down by silly random trash.

tihocan
06-02-2009, 11:31 AM
Yeah I was not going for an amazing godly ac. I guess I should have specified all of that more clearly. Basicly i mean respectable as in not ****. so that im not getting beat down by silly random trash.
I would suggest to give up on that. It's not worth the trouble on a barb, the silly random trash will still hit you most of the time and your DPS will be horrible. Plus, you won't have many slots free for guards, because of the need of AC-related items (like protection/dodge/natural armor, dexterity, daggertooth's belt, etc.), and you lose a feat for CE (and possibly dodge).

I would suggest to focus on DR and go THF, so you can still deal decent DPS when it's what matters. And you can then carry a nice DR shield for those rare situations where turtling up is actually more useful.

There is at least one DR-focused barbarian on Thelanis, whom I avoid as much as I can because his DPS is so horrible he is useless in most quests (and he tends to take a lot of damage as well). Please don't make something like this!

Noctus
06-02-2009, 02:08 PM
Yeah I was not going for an amazing godly ac. I guess I should have specified all of that more clearly. Basicly i mean respectable as in not ****. so that im not getting beat down by silly random trash.

You wont be able to reach an AC on a Barbarian that random trash starts missing some of its swings against you, without becoming really bad at DPS.

If you want to have a working AC (as in: better than a wet paper towel) go Fighter.



There is no such thing as moderate investment into AC any morein level 10+. A moderate investment has the same effect on your damage taken as not-giving-a-*Ü&$ä(* about AC.

WeaselKing
06-02-2009, 02:20 PM
I think that fighter is likely a better way to go than barb for what you are looking for. I have built a slight variation on this:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.96
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Fleshvik Bel'Gorund
Level 16 Lawful Good Warforged Male
(11 Fighter \ 3 Paladin \ 2 Monk)
Hit Points: 242
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 11
Will: 10

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 16)
Strength 14 18
Dexterity 14 14
Constitution 16 16
Intelligence 14 14
Wisdom 6 6
Charisma 13 13

Level 1 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Deflect Arrows
Feat: (Selected) Improved Damage Reduction


Level 2 (Paladin)


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Damage Reduction
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 4 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Paladin)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 7 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shield Mastery


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise
Feat: (Selected) Improved Damage Reduction


Level 10 (Fighter)


Level 11 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Trip


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Improved Damage Reduction


Level 13 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Mastery


Level 14 (Fighter)


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Damage Reduction
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Resilience


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR




I think I dropped imp trip and resiliance for Cleave and Greater Cleave, I also ended up dropping one of the imp dr's for sf:intimidate. Fleshvik is very fun to play though I have yet to get the DT docent worked up for him, or the Hound Tower Shield I desperately crave.

Thanks go out to Belvik for this build.

comotose
06-02-2009, 10:16 PM
yeah i can see your point about the ac. really isnt worht it after i sat down with hero editor for a bit today. Better to not give a **** about ac and just get as many guards as possible

Aranticus
06-03-2009, 12:26 AM
as many others have said, ac + guards = waste of party slot. going barb is awesome and wf have many immunities to go about doing it. it has been posted in some of the threads, look out for groan-1 (wrecking ball) build. its a twf wf pick using barb with max DR possible and every imaginable guard you can find. twf for dps, wf barb for ungodly low ac and ungodly high damage. necessary equip = titan docent and docent of defiance

as to the suggestion for a fighter/monk/rog build, total waste of time

WeaselKing
06-03-2009, 01:51 PM
as to the suggestion for a fighter/monk/rog build, total waste of time

First of all it is a ftr/mnk/pal and second of all please include IMO in your statement next time you insult someone else's main. I will try not to take it personally, for now.

Brigadoom
06-03-2009, 02:00 PM
First of all it is a ftr/mnk/pal and second of all please include IMO in your statement next time you insult someone else's main. I will try not to take it personally, for now.

what the guy I think was getting at is that if you want to create a porky pine build having an AC toon full of guards isn't maximizing the desired potential... making the character's effectiveness rather questionable...

Shade
06-03-2009, 02:06 PM
While it is just a plani bad idea to make a sword n board barbarian.. It is actually quite possible to reach a somewhat reasonable AC on a pure DPS build.

Mine can hit a good 70+ AC for 5 minuits.. If I swap out like 5+ items for AC type items. Now to actually do this im using allot of very very rare gear and sacrificing a tons of DPS tho (chatteirng ring, prot +5 neck, complete 3piece leviks set including tower shield not proficient in)

Basicly my point is AC is mostly gear based. Not build.

Build a barbarian like you should - for DPS. Then if you want AC, work on it. It takes years but you can do it.

WeaselKing
06-03-2009, 02:10 PM
what the guy I think was getting at is that if you want to create a porky pine build having an AC toon full of guards isn't maximizing the desired potential... making the character's effectiveness rather questionable...

Well, maybe I should have specified that the build I was showing has low AC (low 50's) but a really good DR, running 44 right now, with the Hound shield will be 50 and 60 while Titanic docent clicky is active. I guess that wasn't necessarily clear without looking at the feats. The board is for DR not AC.

Aranticus
06-03-2009, 09:56 PM
First of all it is a ftr/mnk/pal and second of all please include IMO in your statement next time you insult someone else's main. I will try not to take it personally, for now.

i apologise for the mistake in the build, was a typo


what the guy I think was getting at is that if you want to create a porky pine build having an AC toon full of guards isn't maximizing the desired potential... making the character's effectiveness rather questionable...

that is what i'm getting at


Well, maybe I should have specified that the build I was showing has low AC (low 50's) but a really good DR, running 44 right now, with the Hound shield will be 50 and 60 while Titanic docent clicky is active. I guess that wasn't necessarily clear without looking at the feats. The board is for DR not AC.

which makes your suggestion a waste of time if you are going to load it up with guards. pal = aura ac, shield = more ac. between the 2, you are going to jack the ac up by 11, 12 if you have the shield ritual. as you mentioned, you can get a low 50s ac which means the trash mobs are going to miss you alot and if so, guards doesnt even matter and hence its effectiveness will be reduced

as to your build in a normal role, apart from being an intimidator, it doesnt seem to have any function. there is a huge number of DR and other defensive feats but the only combat feats you have is power attack and improved trip. a fighter's main modes of offense come from various sources

1. strength - you started with 14. this means you are 2 off on attack and damage

2. feats - no focus feats, 2 attack off. no specialisation, up to 6 damage off (granted some might not be available due to level spread)

3. BAB - with the 2 monk, you are 1 bab short and hence 1 attack off (can be easily avoided by madstone or DP clickies)

the spread is not as synergistic. you took 2 levels of monk assuming for the 2 feats and evasion. however, given the choice of feats you took (deflect arrows is one of them), the monk level can be easily substituted with rogue levels for a batman build with greater versatility. given that the monk level is there for wisdom ac, the use of a shield negates that ac plus the fact that you started with 6 wis

i'm not sure how you are going to play your toon is an offensive role but in a dps oriented ddo, its effectiveness is definately reduced

WeaselKing
06-04-2009, 05:44 PM
I don't know why I am responding to this but here we go:



which makes your suggestion a waste of time if you are going to load it up with guards. pal = aura ac, shield = more ac. between the 2, you are going to jack the ac up by 11, 12 if you have the shield ritual. as you mentioned, you can get a low 50s ac which means the trash mobs are going to miss you alot and if so, guards doesnt even matter and hence its effectiveness will be reduced



I can get to low 50's AC but am usually in the low 30's CE can be turned off and protection items removed and I repeat the tower shield is for DR not AC, if I could turn its AC off I would.



as to your build in a normal role, apart from being an intimidator, it doesnt seem to have any function. there is a huge number of DR and other defensive feats but the only combat feats you have is power attack and improved trip. a fighter's main modes of offense come from various sources


This is a defensive build and if you read the notes below it you will see that I have dropped Imp Trip in favor of Cleave and Great Cleave. Inimidating trash mobs and then cleaving them with a vorpal while other party members beat on their backs is effective, especially when you DR is too high for them to damage you.



1. strength - you started with 14. this means you are 2 off on attack and damage


2? 2? You are worried about a loss of 2 dmg/to hit? why?




2. feats - no focus feats, 2 attack off. no specialisation, up to 6 damage off (granted some might not be available due to level spread)



Yup haven't used focus or spec since my first toon.




3. BAB - with the 2 monk, you are 1 bab short and hence 1 attack off (can be easily avoided by madstone or DP clickies)



With which I am quite happy due to the slowness of the final attack and its impact on DPS.



the spread is not as synergistic. you took 2 levels of monk assuming for the 2 feats and evasion. however, given the choice of feats you took (deflect arrows is one of them), the monk level can be easily substituted with rogue levels for a batman build with greater versatility. given that the monk level is there for wisdom ac, the use of a shield negates that ac plus the fact that you started with 6 wis


I should also have noted that I did not take Deflect Arrows, I actually took CE and used the another fighter feat for something else, though what that is escapes me at the moment, my fault for not mentioning that. I absolutely did not take the monk levels for wisdom AC I did take them for feats and evasion.



i'm not sure how you are going to play your toon is an offensive role but in a dps oriented ddo, its effectiveness is definately reduced

Where did I say that this build was offensive? This is a highly defensive character with saves in the 30's and 40's plus evasion and high DR. Don't worry he will still pick up your barbarian's stone after he dies. He will also intimidate the mobs so your rogue or whoever you have managed to get Thrane's goggles on can backstab the f out of him. This toon is made to be played for the whole party's benefit, not to be the most uber or have the most kills.

Aranticus
06-04-2009, 08:15 PM
Where did I say that this build was offensive? This is a highly defensive character with saves in the 30's and 40's plus evasion and high DR. Don't worry he will still pick up your barbarian's stone after he dies. He will also intimidate the mobs so your rogue or whoever you have managed to get Thrane's goggles on can backstab the f out of him. This toon is made to be played for the whole party's benefit, not to be the most uber or have the most kills.


If you can't switch to better DPS, you're worthless most of the time. The group would have been better with a DPS character.

this came from the guide to intimitank thread

WeaselKing
06-04-2009, 10:52 PM
this came from the guide to intimitank thread

Well, you convinced me, deleting my toons and moving to WoW as we speak so I can have the same build as everyone else.

Samadhi
06-05-2009, 04:55 PM
Well, you convinced me, deleting my toons and moving to WoW as we speak so I can have the same build as everyone else.

well said

Aranticus
06-05-2009, 11:23 PM
Well, you convinced me, deleting my toons and moving to WoW as we speak so I can have the same build as everyone else.

yeap, thats where you can build a toon to do just ONE thing. sorry but ddo is more than that. 1 trick monkeys doesnt really cut it. some similar situations

1. dps tank that cant use a shield when no healing is immediately available
2. ranged toon with absolutely no melee capabilities
3. dps casters with absolutely 0 buffs or cc
4. healbot clerics that cant take care of themselves
5. hagglebot bards that cant do anything
6. the trap monkey that just only do traps

these are just some of the examples. no one is saying you cant contribute to a party by just playing 1 role. what is laughable is that when one can contribute more, one imposes a limitation on that contribution

Jay203
06-05-2009, 11:44 PM
yeap, thats where you can build a toon to do just ONE thing. sorry but ddo is more than that. 1 trick monkeys doesnt really cut it. some similar situations

1. dps tank that cant use a shield when no healing is immediately available
2. ranged toon with absolutely no melee capabilities
3. dps casters with absolutely 0 buffs or cc
4. healbot clerics that cant take care of themselves
5. hagglebot bards that cant do anything
6. the trap monkey that just only do traps

these are just some of the examples. no one is saying you cant contribute to a party by just playing 1 role. what is laughable is that when one can contribute more, one imposes a limitation on that contribution

oh shush, stop preaching xD
it's always a good idea for someone to go one direction first on multiple toons before they figure out how they want to mix-n-match on a single toon
building "one-trick-ponies" aren't exactly as bad as you think
at least they know what they CAN and CANNOT do, unlike some others that are in waaaaay over their heads
generally speaking, having played one-trick-ponies will make a player behave better (except for some individual asses >_>)