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sephiroth1084
05-24-2009, 09:23 AM
Did I miss anything?

My tank will be a Human 19 Paladin/1 Fighter. Below are all the enhancements I'm planning on taking separated into Defender of Siberys (and its requirements), Paladin, Human and Fighter enhancements to be taken. Please let me know if I missed anything, whether in terms of necessity or AP miscalculation. Values in red are the AP points, and the stuff in parenthesis are the other enhancements assumed in the total, such as (DM I & II) denoting the 2 prereqs for DM III.

Bulwark I 1
Resistance I 1
Courage I 1
Focus I 1
AC Boost I 1
DoS I 4
Bulwark II 2
Resistance II 2
DoS II 2
Paladin Toughness II 3 (PT I)
DoS III 2
Bulwark III 3
Resistance III 3
Faith II 6 (Faith I)
____________________________________
Subtotal 32

Bulwark IV 4
LoH III 6 (LoH I & II)
DM III 6 (DM I & II)
Extra Smite IV 10 (Extra Smite I, II & III)
Exalted Smite IV 10 (Exalted Smite I, II & III)
Paladin Toughness IV 7 (Toughness III)
CHA I 2
DS III 6 (DS I & II)
DR I 1
___________________________________
Subtotal 52

Adaptability II 6 ( Adaptability I)
Racial Toughness II 3 (Racial Toughness I)
____________________________________
Subtotal 9

Haste Boost I 1
Intimidate I 1
____________________________________
Subtotal 2

Total AP 97 out of either 96 or 100 at level 20

Stamp3de
05-24-2009, 09:49 AM
I believe we are going to only have 80 AP total at lvl 20

We have 64 right now + 16 (4ap x 4 more lvls) = 80

sephiroth1084
05-24-2009, 10:06 AM
I believe we are going to only have 80 AP total at lvl 20

We have 64 right now + 16 (4ap x 4 more lvls) = 80

Oh damn! Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking. The question, then, is what do I drop, since I'm 17 AP over the limit?

Exalted Smite IV, Extra Smite IV, and Paladin Toughness IV are a total of 12 AP. Divine Sacrifice III is another 3, for a total of 15. I could drop Fighter Intimidate I and Haste Boost I, though I'm loath to drop the latter. Not sure what else I would get rid of.

Also, looking at this now, there may be no reason to hit paladin 19, so I can probably take a second level of fighter. I would have really liked to get Exalted Smite IV and Divine Sacrifice III, but it's just too expensive with the Extra Smite IV requirement.

Thoughts?

Aaxeyu
05-24-2009, 10:12 AM
This is what I planned for my 18 pala / 2 fighter intimitank:

(1ap)Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
(4ap)Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
(2ap)Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
(2ap)Enhancement: Human Adaptability Dexterity I
(2ap)Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
(1ap)Enhancement: Deneith Intimidation I
(6ap)Enhancement: Human Versatility III
(10ap)Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good IV
(6ap)Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good III
(1ap)Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
(3ap)Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
(10ap)Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite IV
(6ap)Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands III
(10ap)Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil IV
(1ap)Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate I
(2ap)Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
(1ap)Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
(1ap)Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I
(1ap)Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost I
(4ap)Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys I
(2ap)Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys II
(2ap)Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys III

Dexxaan
05-24-2009, 10:42 AM
What do you drop?


First off drop a Level of Paladin.

Then take a 2nd Fighter level, Rogue (although a lil late but still beneficial if you have any ambitions of decent or above average Skills) or even Cleric! for some DV's... but 19 Paladin levels is an absolute waste (IMO of course).

And regarding AP's.... LMAO welcome to the most AP starved class in DDO..... decisions will be required and more the reason for choosing the Build itself well.


Hope this helps.

NOTE: a friend who was L20 in Llamania mentioned that 84 AP's is the max available.... cannot confirm though and didn't make any sense....like the evasion ring...you know?

sephiroth1084
05-26-2009, 02:58 AM
What do you drop?


First off drop a Level of Paladin.

Then take a 2nd Fighter level, Rogue (although a lil late but still beneficial if you have any ambitions of decent or above average Skills) or even Cleric! for some DV's... but 19 Paladin levels is an absolute waste (IMO of course).

And regarding AP's.... LMAO welcome to the most AP starved class in DDO..... decisions will be required and more the reason for choosing the Build itself well.


Hope this helps.

NOTE: a friend who was L20 in Llamania mentioned that 84 AP's is the max available.... cannot confirm though and didn't make any sense....like the evasion ring...you know?

I'm used to playing paladins, Dex, but Defender of Siberys is going to muddy the otherwise fairly clear picture I had had as to what I'd be doing with my APs. As such, I'm trying to determine what enhancements really must stay, and which can get sacrificed.

Sacrificing Divine Sacrifice III and Exalted Smite IV seems a little bit of a hardship, since this character won't be going TWF or THF, and those add a fair amount of damage (and seeing HUGE numbers on a crit smite is always fun). The prereq of Extra Smite IV hurts a lot Ap-wise, which is probably while these have to take a hike, which will likely mean dropping to 18 Pal/2 Ftr.

On the other hand, dropping something like Bulwark IV seems counterintuitive since half the point of taking DoS is to boost my defenses. I could also drop a little more Toughness, but I don't know what else I could reasonably give up. Extra LoH is worth way too much to drop. Stat adjustments (Human Adaptability I and II, and Paladin Cha I) could possibly get tossed.

I'm looking for suggestions on these issues.

FluffyCalico
05-26-2009, 03:01 AM
And regarding AP's.... LMAO welcome to the most AP starved class in DDO..... decisions will be required and more the reason for choosing the Build itself well.




At least you are getting enhancements. Casters get jack until next year.

And yes Kensii III is hurting just as bad on action points

Angelus_dead
05-26-2009, 03:05 AM
Sacrificing Divine Sacrifice III and Exalted Smite IV seems a little bit of a hardship, since this character won't be going TWF or THF, and those add a fair amount of damage
But DS and ES are more attractive to TWF paladins, because they give you twice the damage for the same cost.


I could also drop a little more Toughness, but I don't know what else I could reasonably give up.
My feeling is to drop a lot of Toughness, but that's unfortunately anti-synergistic with the healing amplification provided by DoS features, as the amplification will sometimes be wasted when you don't have the hp to store it.

SteeleTrueheart
05-26-2009, 03:31 AM
Exalted Smite IV, Extra Smite IV, and Paladin Toughness IV are a total of 12 AP. Divine Sacrifice III is another 3, for a total of 15. I could drop Fighter Intimidate I and Haste Boost I, though I'm loath to drop the latter. Not sure what else I would get rid of.

Also, looking at this now, there may be no reason to hit paladin 19, so I can probably take a second level of fighter. I would have really liked to get Exalted Smite IV and Divine Sacrifice III, but it's just too expensive with the Extra Smite IV requirement.

Thoughts?


Paladin 19 only gives access to Div Sac III so if you are going to give that up, you may as well take the second level of fighter or a level of rogue for UMD.

That said, if you are going DoS I am guessing you have an AC build and will want to keep AC more than HP or DPS. With a shield you will not be dumping out as much damage to worry about really needing DS DM and ES at the highest levels. The hate generation of DoS will be gathering the agro more than your dps.

Think about dropping DS2&3, DM3, ES3&4, and ExtraSmite4. I notice you already have Divine Righteousness and that should generate even more hate for you.

Again, I would like to say, if you want advice put a little more description of what your character is/wants to be, so that others can give a bit more relevant advice. For example does this character get to a high AC level, is he rarely hit? Do you already have godly amounts of HP? Do you have great saves? Did you max intimidate? (Assumed you did but you haven't stated definitively)

sephiroth1084
05-26-2009, 11:45 AM
To clarify a little, this character is currently a Pal 6/Ftr 1 (I want to try DoS as I go up in levels, rather than taking all of it when it gets released), with the current end goal of Pal 19/Ftr 1. He has maxed intimidate, x-classed UMD, and is being built to be an AC intimitank (and a hatetank when DoS comes out). Obviously I don't have much of the associated gear now, but I've gotten it all before on Ferrumrym, so I know I can endure the grind for some of that **** again.

Part of the reason I was aiming for things like Exalted Smite and DS is that there are many times when an intimitank is not really required, where DPS is the only thing necessary, or even desirable. Now, I probably can't fit TWF or THF into the build, but I can try to add as much S&B damage as I can, little as that may be.

I may actually reroll this guy before the mod comes out (need to see how many +2 tomes I put into him), because I hadn't fully considered the value of a higher Dex and started with a 12. I'm now thinking that I could drop Con to 14 and raise Dex to 14, which would set me up to take TWF and ITWF (with a +3 tome) if I have room feat-wise (which I would if I take a 2nd fighter level).

Ultimately, I want to be able to fulfill my primary role--that of an aggro-holding tank who takes very little incoming damage--and still be able to contribute meaningfully with DPS. I feel that, despite the prevailing views many express on the boards, S&B DPS can be high enough to still be worthwhile.

So again, I'm looking for opinions on what else I need to drop (I think my last calculation had me 1 point over still), and/or what I could reasonably drop to fit some of the higher DPS enhancements back in.

Ralmeth
05-26-2009, 02:59 PM
I'm working on my new Pally Intimitank reroll too so I can take DoS III. I've found the enhancement selection is tough because there are so many good enhancements to take. If only they didn't have such heavy prereqs. Mostly what grinds my gears is the required faith line-Those are 6 APs that I know that I will hardly ever use:(

I'm thinking of going with a very similar list to yours, with a couple of tweaks. I'm going to forego the DS line, but keep BoG and exhalted smite maxed. Below is the list I'm going to go without, for now. I guess it's a matter of picking your poison.

What I dropped from your list:
LOH III (3 points)
DM III (3 points)
Paladin Toughness IV (4 points)
DS I-III (6 points)
Adaptability II (6 points) - but I also took 1 Rogue level for maxed UMD and Intim.
---------------------------
22 points

I also added in:
Item Damage Reduction I (1 point)
Cha II (4 points)
------------------
5 points

Total reduction = 17 points, or 80 total APs spent

Beld
05-26-2009, 03:09 PM
get 16 more for the 4 new levels, then get 4 more to the cap of level 20 (1 point below level 21) for a total of 20 new AP's to go with the current cap of 64.

sephiroth1084
05-27-2009, 06:12 PM
get 16 more for the 4 new levels, then get 4 more to the cap of level 20 (1 point below level 21) for a total of 20 new AP's to go with the current cap of 64.

Thanks for clarifying that!