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Borror0
05-23-2009, 06:08 PM
The DDO LFM are nearly perfect. I think that every MMO should just copy how DDO did it. It's that good. I think it was key to the success of DDO's forced grouping. However, it is not perfect and there are a few changes I would like to see being done.

The only changes I would make are:

Add a playstyle category when creating groups (zerg, exploration, sneaking, etc.)
Add a roleplay option (checking yes would change the color of the LFM, for example)
Add a permadeath option (checking yes would change the color of the LFM, for example)
The ability to select (None) for in the quest category so we don't have to say Not doing the quest displayed
Add wilderness explorer area to the list (Cerulean Hills, Ataraxia's Haven, etc.)

The first two can be added in the comment section, but by making of those a supported feature it would prevent counter-nature grouping (players wanting to go slow playing with zergers, non-RP and RP playing together, etc.) and allow such playstyles to develop.

As to why add the last two, the reason is quite obvious, I think.

kinar
05-23-2009, 06:36 PM
I think it would also be nice to add a "role" rather than just class selection to what you are looking for...

example roles:

dps
tank
healer
trapsmith

Or maybe even go with adding the PrEs to the list of choices...it is usually pretty clear which role someone fulfils by which pre they chose...

Borror0
05-23-2009, 06:51 PM
Or maybe even go with adding the PrEs to the list of choices...it is usually pretty clear which role someone fulfils by which pre they chose...
I think that is just too complicated/too much information.

If you need a healer, then simply add it in the comment section: "Need 6 DPS, 1 bard and 2 healer"

Angelus_dead
05-23-2009, 07:09 PM
The only changes I would make are
I think an important (but subtle) change would be to add direct support for non-full groups, and to make that the default (or otherwise encouraged) mode.

That's to solve the problem experienced by new players who find themselves in a dilemma: either they're all alone and can't tell what to do, or they're grouped with 5 other people and can hardly tell what's going on.

New players often go through four phases of unhappiness:
1. Mandatory solo. This ends after completing a quest chain.
2. Bewildered solo. The handholding is over, they can't quite tell which quest should be next, and when they get enter one they often get overwhelmed.
3. Hapless recruit. They've joined a level-appropriate group, but are startled to find that it's full of rerollees whom they are incompetent to assist. Depending on the whim of the other members, they might or might not help them make it inside to earn XP, but that's still not very fun or educational.
4. Overloaded leader. The player starts his own LFM, but it quickly winds up packed with 5 other people and suddenly his needs a minority and gameplay proceeds as in step #3. Only an unusually strong-willed player can prevent that.

How the change would help is it would make it easier for the newbie leader to stop the group at 1-2 other members, preventing him from being so marginalized in his own team. (Someone might claim that the freeform text field is sufficient. It's not)

An additional change to help solve that same problem would be a "soft LFG" option. That would function as a text field (and possibly also a list of quests) that a character could leave up over a long time, without going all the way into full-on "Gold Dot" LFG mode. It would keep going when grouped, and possibly even when logged into a different character. Examples of soft LFG messages might be "Shroud or SOS" (for a level 16 sorc) or "I love to teach newbs" (for a level 2 cleric).

Other specific new features:
3. An easy (one-button) way to set multiple characters LFG at once, to demonstrate that you're willing to use any of them. (This should include making it easy to publicize the raid timers and SOS flagging of each character)
4. The ability to interact with the LFG system from the character selection screen.

Ghoste
05-23-2009, 07:11 PM
Add halfling sacrifice to the class list.

Borror0
05-23-2009, 07:29 PM
I think an important (but subtle) change would be to add direct support for non-full groups, and to make that the default (or otherwise encouraged) mode.
I thought about that one as well but didn't much of a need for it, but you make a good case in favor of it.

An additional change to help solve that same problem would be a "soft LFG" option. That would function as a text field (and possibly also a list of quests) that a character could leave up over a long time, without going all the way into full-on "Gold Dot" LFG mode. It would keep going when grouped, and possibly even when logged into a different character. Examples of soft LFG messages might be "Shroud or SOS" (for a level 16 sorc) or "I love to teach newbs" (for a level 2 cleric).
I really like that. It would help in making the would LFG feature more visible, as well.

I would also add that the "Gold Dot" should be invisible to the player of the character, it annoys me to play with a gold dot over my head.

3. An easy (one-button) way to set multiple characters LFG at once, to demonstrate that you're willing to use any of them. (This should include making it easy to publicize the raid timers and SOS flagging of each character)
4. The ability to interact with the LFG system from the character selection screen.
I really like both of them.

Sirea
05-23-2009, 07:42 PM
The ability to select (None) for in the quest category so we don't have to say Not doing the quest displayed

Umm...I didn't think having to select a quest was mandatory for posting an LFM, I leave/see it blank all the time.

Angelus_dead
05-23-2009, 07:54 PM
Umm...I didn't think having to select a quest was mandatory for posting an LFM, I leave/see it blank all the time.
But once you've got a quest in there, getting rid of it...

Borror0
05-23-2009, 08:38 PM
Umm...I didn't think having to select a quest was mandatory for posting an LFM, I leave/see it blank all the time.
It's not, but if you have a quest selected you can't remove it.

That's why you sometimes see LFM saying things like "Shroud, need a healer (not doing the Reaver that the LFM says)"

Furysetzer
05-23-2009, 09:34 PM
^It's in the panel. Clear Quest Selection. That blanks it out. I use it all the time.

Nearly all of your suggestions can be said in the dialog box. I see no reason to add such a feature. Although I do like the wilderness area idea.

One bug, though, is after using a hireling, I'll form a group. From then on, it only shows me, no matter how many people I have joined.

Borror0
05-23-2009, 09:48 PM
^It's in the panel. Clear Quest Selection. That blanks it out. I use it all the time.
When was that added?

Nearly all of your suggestions can be said in the dialog box. I see no reason to add such a feature. *
Like I said in the OP, while it can be said in the comment section, putting those option there would make it more wide spread and allow better grouping. Too often I join a group just to realize the group intends to go slower than I want to go. Likewise, many join groups to realize that the players go too fast for them.

VKhaun
05-23-2009, 09:48 PM
I've never seen enough group LFM's to justify dev time towards helping sort them further.
Is my server (Thelanis) low population? What server is more popular?

Borror0
05-23-2009, 09:58 PM
I've never seen enough group LFM's to justify dev time towards helping sort them further.
Is my server (Thelanis) low population? What server is more popular?
The last time I really played, two months ago, there was 10+ LFMs on Thelanis. I have no idea how low the population is now, but if the population is low it is because of the delay of Module 9 and not because LFMs are not used.

pumbilly
05-23-2009, 10:03 PM
I'd like to see the quest list in the LFM panel sorted a bit better.

it's really very difficult to hunt through the list for the exact quest you want to do.

When you choose "story quests" then it should list the quests in quest position/level min.

So you might see:

WW1: Clan Gnashtooth: lv2
WW2: Clan Gnashtooth: lv2
WW3: Clan Tunnelworm: lv3
WW4: Clan Tunnelworm; lv3
TNG; First Strike: lv2
TNG2: Rescue prisoners lv3
TNG3: War Plans lv3
TNG4: Whisperdoom lv4
TNG5: Deadly Package lv5
TNG6: Doom of the Witchdoctor lv6
TNG7: Final lv7
STK1: Kobold Blockcade lv3
STK2: Caverns of Shaagh lv4
STk3: Seal of Shan-ko-tor lv5

etc

Strakeln
05-23-2009, 11:23 PM
^It's in the panel. Clear Quest Selection. That blanks it out. I use it all the time.Damn, he beat me to it.

I'll vouch for this, I use it all the time as well.

Borror0
05-23-2009, 11:29 PM
Damn, he beat me to it.

I'll vouch for this, I use it all the time as well.
I don't debate that, but do you have any idea of when it was added? My bet would be module 8, but maybe I am blinder than I think I am.

Phax
05-27-2009, 04:46 PM
I don't debate that, but do you have any idea of when it was added? My bet would be module 8, but maybe I am blinder than I think I am.

Mod 6 ;)

Borror0
05-27-2009, 04:50 PM
Mod 6 ;)
LOL, wow. I'll have to log on and check how obvious it is, as I still saw LFMs like that not too long ago.

Gratch
05-27-2009, 05:19 PM
I like the LFM panel...

If we have Phax's attention I'd rather see some more thoughts on a making party information more easily available. Specifically once the LFM closes I lose an easy to check race/classes/level guide to my party - I just have majority class icons, individual inspection or sorting through the who panel to get this information. Also... wasn't there going to be a means for clerics to see party member debuff status coming at some point? Who has negs/diseases/etc?

Maybe some UI checkbox for Detailed Party Info. Maybe take the current party/health/sp/ki draggable bars... give it a little more room... show race, classes and levels... and spare some room for mini icons indicating debuffs.

The debuff use is obvious. The race is for those of us healing wfg'ed vs fleshy or preparing spell loadout. The classes is so you know which bard might have ac song with 15 levels, or which character might have rogue skills with a splash or which characters might have evasion... etc.

And no... you don't really need this at L1-5... but at higher levels in quick forming PUG raids... awesome. Also... if players have 0 completions once they enter a quest - feel free to add a NOOB icon on their debuff list. I don't care if it's their alt and they've run the quest 1000 times.

Done.

BLAKROC
05-27-2009, 06:40 PM
I think that is just too complicated/too much information.

If you need a healer, then simply add it in the comment section: "Need 6 DPS, 1 bard and 2 healer"

same can be said for your first three choices as well

BlueBadger
05-27-2009, 07:05 PM
way back in the day when we had the old enhancement system and before they did the original makeover of the LFM panels, who panels friends, and others... there was a tab for the party. It listed player names and class but not much else. It was always a really big waste and it never really got the attention to be made a bit better. When they beefed up the who panel, they removed the party tab as it wasn't useful and all the info could be had with the who and /who [name] command....

Borror0
05-27-2009, 10:40 PM
same can be said for your first three choices as well
There's a difference between a check box/drop down list and a selection of 34 specs to replace the 11 we would have...

And of course it would get crazier later on if/when they add more PrE and classes.

Dark_Helmet
05-28-2009, 02:58 AM
All of your suggestions can be put in the comment area so I feel it is a waste of time.

I want to be able to SHRINK the Social panel so it doesn't take up all that real estate.

I don't care if the leader is an elf or toaster (no need for the icon as I can mouse over and see it). I want to hide the classes needed (it highlights if you are eligible). Stack the level range and shrink it (again, if you are eligible, it will highlight it).

You got mouse-overs for most of the fields, so why take up all that area? It is helpful for those doing the explorer areas (or the solo dungeons since you made them) while waiting for a group.

BelVic
05-28-2009, 03:56 AM
Add halfling sacrifice to the class list.

Fleshies will die....most likely...wonder why they still joining

Bogenbroom
05-28-2009, 09:15 AM
I'd like to see the quest list in the LFM panel sorted a bit better.

it's really very difficult to hunt through the list for the exact quest you want to do.

When you choose "story quests" then it should list the quests in quest position/level min.

So you might see:

WW1: Clan Gnashtooth: lv2
WW2: Clan Gnashtooth: lv2
WW3: Clan Tunnelworm: lv3
WW4: Clan Tunnelworm; lv3
TNG; First Strike: lv2
TNG2: Rescue prisoners lv3
TNG3: War Plans lv3
TNG4: Whisperdoom lv4
TNG5: Deadly Package lv5
TNG6: Doom of the Witchdoctor lv6
TNG7: Final lv7
STK1: Kobold Blockcade lv3
STK2: Caverns of Shaagh lv4
STk3: Seal of Shan-ko-tor lv5

etc

I'd love to see something along this line. "Quest" slections options for explorer zones and PvP areas as well would be nice.
I would also *LOVE* to see several restrictions placed in the LFM.
- The first being the removal of the default entries of level ranges and require folks to manually enter the ranges. It is a pet peeve, yes, but seeing level range 1-16 annoys the beejeezes out of me. Or make the default 1-1 or something.
- An option to blank out LFMs you are not interested in would be GREAT. Yes, I can ignore it, but the option to clean up the LFM would be nice.
- If we REALLY don't want folks trading on the LFM a right click option to report them would be helpful.
- A notification of pre-requisites might be helpful for newer users. *ESPECIALLY* if it worked dynamically with your characters to show what *you* needed pre-reqs for. Yes, that may be a bit much :)

Phax
05-28-2009, 01:39 PM
- The first being the removal of the default entries of level ranges and require folks to manually enter the ranges. It is a pet peeve, yes, but seeing level range 1-16 annoys the beejeezes out of me. Or make the default 1-1 or something.


How about...

If the LFM poster has chosen a quest, default the level ranges to:
[ <quest_level>-2, <quest level>+2 ]

If the LFM poster has not chosen a quest, default the level ranges to:
[ <character_level>-2, <character_level>+2 ]

GoldyGopher
05-28-2009, 01:47 PM
How about...

If the LFM poster has chosen a quest, default the level ranges to:
[ <quest_level>-2, <quest level>+2 ]

If the LFM poster has not chosen a quest, default the level ranges to:
[ <character_level>-2, <character_level>+2 ]

I like.

Make it so.

Darth_Sizzle
05-28-2009, 01:48 PM
+2/-2 means you may have a 4 lvl difference in the group, meaning someone is getting power leveled (the wrong way... as in little-to-no XP).

Ex. lvl 10 quest or group leader, +2/-2 could give us a lvl 8 and and lvl 12.

Better to make it +1/-1, IMHO.

The_Phenx
05-28-2009, 01:50 PM
Better to make it +1/-1, IMHO.

Yep

DemonMage
05-28-2009, 01:55 PM
[Edit] Nevermind, mis-remembered. It's a change to being higher level than the quest, not the powerleveling range it seems.

Bogenbroom
05-28-2009, 02:00 PM
+2/-2 means you may have a 4 lvl difference in the group, meaning someone is getting power leveled (the wrong way... as in little-to-no XP).

Ex. lvl 10 quest or group leader, +2/-2 could give us a lvl 8 and and lvl 12.

Better to make it +1/-1, IMHO.

I'd make it +1/-2, but yeah, that would work great for me.

Hey, you know what else I'd love to see in there... A great big glowing warning sign when JoeBlow X is posting an LFM looking for 10-12 when JoeBlow is level 9. Or, more generically... "Group contains members outside of posted level range" warning. Yup, another pet peeve of mine! (Man, I have a lot of those!)

Riggs
05-28-2009, 02:42 PM
+2/-2 means you may have a 4 lvl difference in the group, meaning someone is getting power leveled (the wrong way... as in little-to-no XP).

Ex. lvl 10 quest or group leader, +2/-2 could give us a lvl 8 and and lvl 12.

Better to make it +1/-1, IMHO.

If the both the leader, and the players are not paying attention to the levels of the other people in group....then maybe that will be a good learning experience then. As long as there is a visible warning "You are not going to get xp from this quest" when you enter so you are not suprised at the end of it.

Tharlak
05-28-2009, 04:25 PM
I'd make it +1/-2, but yeah, that would work great for me.

/signed. That would work!

Angelus_dead
05-28-2009, 04:33 PM
If the both the leader, and the players are not paying attention to the levels of the other people in group....then maybe that will be a good learning experience then.
That's not the applicable situation.

The problem arises when the leader is paying attention, but some of the group members are relying on the leader to do it for them. But they have different expectations: the leader only wants to win the quest, so he recruits +2 level people, but the existing members wanted to get XP for it too. Not uncommonly they get unpleasantly surprised later when they see that someone higher level had been added.

Gratch
05-28-2009, 04:41 PM
I'd make it +1/-2, but yeah, that would work great for me.

Sometimes we fix the wrong thing. Leave it at +2/-2 but given the next update gives us 19 levels of total character spread, change the current power levelling from 4/-50%XP 5/-100%XP to 4/-25%XP, 5/-50%XP, 6/-100%XP.

Shade
05-29-2009, 12:50 AM
I'd like an option to entirely prevent people who do not meet the LFM requirements from trying to join.

Far as im concerned if they want to join and don't meet the requirements they have to send a tell, the oldschool way.

rustbucky
05-29-2009, 02:28 PM
default Level range should be [quest level-2] to [quest level +1]

A level 5 quest... so you accept 3-6 that way no accidental power leveling that lowbe.