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Delacroix21
05-05-2009, 10:50 PM
Note. This thread is to focus on the SINGULAR ISSUE of the level 17 ability Timeless Body. If you with to discuss something else, start your own thread. Please do not sidetrack this one.


As we all know at level 17 monks gain the ability Timeless Body, which is supposed to grant immunity to aging effects (even magical). However the Devs have announced that instead of this very powerful ability we will be getting= Spawn Screen (keeps a wraith from forming when killed by a wraith).


Not only is spawn screen useless in DDO, it also has nothing to do with being aged.


For this reason, I propose that this granted ability be changed to its intial purpose. I would like to see it changed to either=
1. Immunity to ability drain
2. Immunity to level drain (like WF)
3. Or Both


This change would allow the ability to function as it was intended by Wizards of the Coast, and is in keeping with the rules of Dungeons and Dragons. Please sign this thread to help grab the Developers attention on this issue, as they are very busy and they wont notice a thread at the bottom of the page.:rolleyes:

TreknaQudane
05-05-2009, 10:53 PM
Except Ability Drain and Enervation have nothing to do with aging.

Fact is, Timeless Body is a near useless feat even in PnP unless you have a really really dedicated group.

Delacroix21
05-05-2009, 10:59 PM
Except Ability Drain and Enervation have nothing to do with aging.

Fact is, Timeless Body is a near useless feat even in PnP unless you have a really really dedicated group.

Level drain could be seen as very similar to being "aged" magically. As for the stat drain, it even says in timeless body's description that their ability scores will not decrease from age, which can be much better translated in DDO to ability drain from spells.


My suggestion also revolves along the logic that these immunities have FAR more in common with the original feat, then Spawn Screen does.


Toung of Sun and Moon is also granted at level 17 (yet left out of DDO) which grants the ability to speak to any creature. This is amazingly powerful in PnP campaigns as it opens up allot of options when adventuring with a good DM. Unless you have a DM that just treats DnD like a fighting game and just has you fight monsters over and over.

Ghoste
05-05-2009, 11:02 PM
Level drain could be seen as very similar to being "aged" magically. As for the stat drain, it even says in timeless body's description that their ability scores will not decrease from age, which can be much better translated in DDO to ability drain from spells.


My suggestion also revolves along the logic that these immunities have FAR more in common with the original feat, then Spawn Screen does.


Toung of Sun and Moon is also granted at level 17 (yet left out of DDO) which grants the ability to speak to any creature. This is amazingly powerful in PnP campaigns as it opens up allot of options when adventuring with a good DM. Unless you have a DM that just treats DnD like a fighting game and just has you fight monsters over and over.Tongue of the Sun and Moon = bonus to diplomacy (IMO).

The rest of what you said...really twisting it. You should really edit the word "logic" out of there. But good luck with your request anyways. :rolleyes:

Delacroix21
05-06-2009, 08:46 AM
Tongue of the Sun and Moon = bonus to diplomacy (IMO).

The rest of what you said...really twisting it. You should really edit the word "logic" out of there. But good luck with your request anyways. :rolleyes:

Well I just tie in aging effects in DDO to levels, since we have no age.


As for tounge of sun and moon I originally proposed=
Your training has been through many teachers of all walks of life. You now have a grater ability to communicate with other creatures granting a +5 (or 10) to diplomacy, bluff, and intimidate. (not crazy about the wording here)


2 of which arent even class skills but tie into the "flavor" of the ability none the less.

rimble
05-06-2009, 08:58 AM
Timeless Body is a good opportunity for them to just chuck because it doesn't translate to DDO at all...toss it and hand out a nice (but not particularly powerful/useful) little treat in its place:

Abundant step takes less (or no) ki.

Hand out a minor free Monk feat, like Deflect Arrows or something.

I don't agree at all about correlating ability/energy drain to aging.

Brother_Solar
05-06-2009, 11:59 AM
I do not agree with equating level drain to negative effects caused by aging. Isn't level drain effectively making you younger and less experienced (and thereby less powerful)?

Maybe fatigue (http://compendium.ddo.com/index.php/Spell:Waves_of_Fatigue)and exhaustion (http://compendium.ddo.com/index.php/Spell:Waves_of_Exhaustion) effects could be related to aging? Being immune to all fatigue and exhaustion effects isn't overly powerful. I would accept it as a pseudo-equivalent to Timeless Body.

Jadeare
05-06-2009, 09:59 PM
Hey hey hey guys, stop these shenannigans.

Most of these ideas make my monk being a WF redundant....

So stop...

ok.

epochofcrepuscule
05-06-2009, 10:58 PM
I can see or understand stat damage, but no way on the lvl drain.

Honestly though, im with rimble. Just get rid of it, suits no purpose in DDO.... They threw out Tongue of the sun and moon without anything to make up for it, so why not the same with this?

Arleon
05-09-2009, 01:22 AM
If you check the combat log when you log in you'll see that apparently Timeless Body is already in the game. On my Lv 16 monk it comes up:
(Combat): You benefit from timeless body.
(Combat): You are immune to spawn effects when you die.
Whether or not it actually works idk, never tested.

I agree that damn near anything would be better.
bonus to saves against necromancy spells maybe?

Garth_of_Sarlona
05-09-2009, 02:24 AM
Timeless Body (Ex): Upon attaining 17th level, your monk is able to transcend the normal frustrations of life. You are immune to any impatience generated from waiting for the next DDO module to arrive. Also grants a +10 to diplomacy checks against forum trolls.

Garth

captain1z
05-09-2009, 02:29 AM
Timeless Body (Ex): Upon attaining 17th level, your monk is able to transcend the normal frustrations of life. You are immune to any impatience generated from waiting for the next DDO module to arrive. Also grants a +10 to diplomacy checks against forum trolls.

Garth

now this is a skill we could all put to good use

TreknaQudane
05-09-2009, 02:30 AM
I intentionally fail my checks.

jboyd158
05-09-2009, 10:47 PM
Maybe something like this.

Timeless Body
You have transcended time, walking through the sands of time like a desert. You gain a +4 insight bonus to Wisdom.

Time normally makes a person wiser. All I have to say.

Tongue of the Sun and Moon
You have learned the speech of the celestial beings, and their techniques of persuasion. You have access to all chat options be it bluffing, diplomacy, or intimidation.

More flavor then anything, but I think it fits.

Lithic
05-09-2009, 11:55 PM
Maybe something like this.

Timeless Body
You have transcended time, walking through the sands of time like a desert. You gain a +4 insight bonus to Wisdom.

Time normally makes a person wiser. All I have to say.

Tongue of the Sun and Moon
You have learned the speech of the celestial beings, and their techniques of persuasion. You have access to all chat options be it bluffing, diplomacy, or intimidation.

More flavor then anything, but I think it fits.

I think I saw the above listed in the dictionary under the definition of "overpowered"

Xyfiel
05-10-2009, 12:34 AM
You are immune to the Crippling effect.

You gain +2 to Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Haggle, and Listen checks.

Simple, related, and not overpowered.

Garth_of_Sarlona
05-10-2009, 12:55 PM
Tongue of the Sun and Moon (Ex): A monk of 17th level or higher can speak with any living creature. You can talk in other guild's private chat windows anonymously.

Garth

jboyd158
05-10-2009, 07:42 PM
I think I saw the above listed in the dictionary under the definition of "overpowered"

What is so overpowered? I'd like your suggestion.

Garth_of_Sarlona
05-10-2009, 07:48 PM
What is so overpowered? I'd like your suggestion.

Giving lvl 17 monks +4 stacking to wisdom is overpowered. It's like giving all level 17 monks a +4 tome...

Maybe +1 isn't overpowered, but +4 certainly is.

Garth

Brother_Solar
05-10-2009, 08:08 PM
A bonus to wisdom doesn't really fit. The PnP feat represents the freeze of a monk's physical age (though they will still die at the appropriate time), it doesn’t automatically add wisdom increasing life experience. The suggestions towards immunity to Crippling and Enfeeblement effects are more appropriate, in my opinion.

The “access to all chat options” doesn’t make a lot of sense either. Tongue of the Sun and Moon doesn’t make you any more persuasive in PnP, it just gives you the option of communicating. The chat options in DDO dialogue are more like rewards for spending skill points in certain social skills. Something that would be pretty neat is if Tongue of the Sun and Moon allowed us to use Intimidate, Diplomacy, and Bluff skills on creatures that would normally not be affected (such as animals). Not powerful by any means, but it would occassionally amuse me. :D

esoitl
05-10-2009, 08:32 PM
Level drain could be seen as very similar to being "aged" magically. As for the stat drain, it even says in timeless body's description that their ability scores will not decrease from age, which can be much better translated in DDO to ability drain from spells.


My suggestion also revolves along the logic that these immunities have FAR more in common with the original feat, then Spawn Screen does.


Toung of Sun and Moon is also granted at level 17 (yet left out of DDO) which grants the ability to speak to any creature. This is amazingly powerful in PnP campaigns as it opens up allot of options when adventuring with a good DM. Unless you have a DM that just treats DnD like a fighting game and just has you fight monsters over and over.

I think you're taking it a bit too far here....
Sure, I feel as well that the Spawn Screen has little to do with the actual representation of the feat but level drain and ability drain are negative energy effects and completely unrelated to aging. It would become seriously overpowered in this aspect and has about as much grounds for implementation as does the Spawn Screen.

DragoonPenguin
05-10-2009, 09:00 PM
Well I just tie in aging effects in DDO to levels, since we have no age.


As for tounge of sun and moon I originally proposed=
Your training has been through many teachers of all walks of life. You now have a grater ability to communicate with other creatures granting a +5 (or 10) to diplomacy, bluff, and intimidate. (not crazy about the wording here)


2 of which arent even class skills but tie into the "flavor" of the ability none the less.

i tie cheese into knots but it doesnt make me an expert on ddo broseph

DragoonPenguin
05-10-2009, 09:04 PM
spawn screen is ********, so is the BS from PnP you get in its stead.

i suggest that instead of increased unarmed damage, all unarmed strikes trigger the same effect as a ligntning 2 shroud weapon procing. this is based on my belief that monks kick fast as lightning. sure thats a little bit frightening, but its pretty safe if you fight with expert timing.