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View Full Version : Fix for Draconic Armour Crafting



BLITHELY
05-04-2009, 11:30 AM
I think everyone would agree mod 8's crafting addition was an epic failure. My suggestion more or less retains the current system but eliminates most of the randomness.

1. Change runes from nameless types 2 colors. Give each rune type 8 colors. My suggestion would be red, white, blue, black, platinum, gold, silver, copper; ie Dragon colors.

2. By combining these runes in the device u get an effect that is consistent. Could either be 4 runes and the armour or 5 runes combined make a rune of "*******" which then is combined with armour.

3. Increase the exchange rate for stones for runes by an appropriate multiplier 2-4x current exchange rate.

4. Maintain bind on acquire for the runes and stones.


I believe the community at large would welcome such a system. It would allow more casual players 2 actually have a prayer of attaining the armour they desire. Make the power gamers happy because they can grind with more of a purpose. Maintains more or less idea behind system and enhances it. Should be relatively easy 2 code.

Idk seems like a good idea 2 me. Tell me what u think?

VirieSquichie
05-04-2009, 12:00 PM
I'm strongly against bind on acquire for any of those rune types.

The rest...I'm ambivalent. Random crafting sucks, sure, but there are so many other things about the DDO crafting as it stands that bother me that I've stopped even considering it for the time being.

Thrudh
05-04-2009, 12:06 PM
That looks complicated to me...

I would suggest:

Get rid of flagging. People run the other quests for their respective runes
Remove a few of the more worthless runes (lionheart, etc.)
Add a "20th end-reward list" by allowing one to buy a partial list of runes (named) for 1000 draconic runes (20 runs x 50 runes)

Sirea
05-04-2009, 12:09 PM
That looks complicated to me...

I would suggest:

Get rid of flagging. People run the other quests for their respective runes
Remove a few of the more worthless runes (lionheart, etc.)
Add a "20th end-reward list" by allowing one to buy a partial list of runes (named) for 1000 draconic runes (20 runs x 50 runes)



Add to this: Get rid of redundant effects, like 20% and 25% striding, and IFL and GFL.

barecm
05-04-2009, 12:57 PM
Add to this: Get rid of redundant effects, like 20% and 25% striding, and IFL and GFL.

GFL can be useful, the rest I agree with.

BLITHELY
05-05-2009, 12:21 AM
That looks complicated to me...

I would suggest:

Get rid of flagging. People run the other quests for their respective runes
Remove a few of the more worthless runes (lionheart, etc.)
Add a "20th end-reward list" by allowing one to buy a partial list of runes (named) for 1000 draconic runes (20 runs x 50 runes)


How is it any more complicated than the shroud crafting? It eliminates randomness.

I do not disagree getting rid of some repetitive powers on same tier would be a good idea. As for other poster with issues on the bind on acquire this no different than it is right now; still can trade inside the chest. Turbine did this i am sure 2 help limit plat farming in this zone but hey if they wish 2 change it so they can be farmed or bind 2 account i am all for that. This system more or less maintains the system they have already established in the shroud and applies it 2 refuge crafting. It even gives them opportunities 2 add additional powers. Most importantly when ur runnning these quests repeatedly u will actually be getting somewhere instead praying the loot generator finally gave u what u wanted.

The issue is not flagging its reflagging but then again they did not put a timer on the raid so this is a minor inconvenience at most. After u have run the raid for the 20th or more time and still not gotten yr 3rd tier item thats wht drives people away. At least with a combination crafting system ur at least making progress towards a goal not a roll of the dice. As with the shroud a recipe index would be quickly compiled and players would know wht they need. Much faster than the shroud's because of the lack of timer.

FluffyCalico
05-05-2009, 12:36 AM
I like the mod 8 crafting. It's easy and simple.

Not like anything besides the soverign takes time.

I mean eldritch you can get what about 8 runes an hr? So even if it took you 40 runes you would have it in under 5 hrs of quest time. Think you will get 5 large scales in 5 hrs in the shroud? :eek:

Tempest, you only get about 4-5 an hr but there are less choices

Soverign you only get 2 an hr, I suppose if your group is very gifted maybe 3 but then you don't want them all to be a gimmie.

So for soverign for me
Cleric #1-1st try
Cleric #2-37th try
Fighter-17th
Sorc-1st try
Wizard-5th and still looking
Ranger 6th
Rogue 8th
Barb 2nd

That is far far far far far far better than hunting scales in the shroud.

Edit :Yes you have to wait after ransack before comming back for more runes but most have more than 1 character to play so not really an issue. Also shroud has a timer where the runes just have ransack

Milamber69
05-05-2009, 12:41 AM
I like the mod 8 crafting. It's easy and simple.

Not like anything besides the soverign takes time.

I mean eldritch you can get what about 8 runes an hr? So even if it took you 40 runes you would have it in under 5 hrs of quest time. Think you will get 5 large scales in 5 hrs in the shroud? :eek:

Tempest, you only get about 5 an hr but there are less choices

Soverign you only get 2 an hr, I suppose if your group is very gifted maybe 3 but then you don't want them all to be a gimmie.

So for soverign for me
Cleric #1-1st try
Cleric #2-37th try
Fighter-17th
Sorc-first
Wizard-5th and still looking
Ranger 6th
Rogue 8th
Barb 2nd

That is far far far far far far better than hunting scales in the shroud.

Edit :Yes you have to wait after ransack before comming back for more runes but most have more than 1 character to play so not really an issue. Also shroud has a timer where the runes just have ransack

Where are you getting these times from? I know people who have ransacked both kobold and monastery countless times, looking for Resistance +5. Chances are, you may never get the rune you are after, its all random.

Ollathir
05-05-2009, 12:47 AM
I like the mod 8 crafting. It's easy and simple.

Not like anything besides the soverign takes time.

I mean eldritch you can get what about 8 runes an hr? So even if it took you 40 runes you would have it in under 5 hrs. Think you will get 5 large scales in 5 hrs in the shroud? :eek:

Tempest, you only get about 5 an hr but there are less choices

Soverign you only get 2 an hr, I suppose if your group is very gifted maybe 3 but then you don't want them all to be a gimmie.

So for soverign for me
Cleric #1-1st try
Cleric #2-37th try
Fighter-17th
Sorc-first
Wizard-5th and still looking
Ranger 6th
Rogue 8th
Barb 2nd

That is far far far far far far better than hunting scales in the shroud.

Edit :Yes you have to wait after ransack before comming back for more runes but most have more than 1 character to play so not really an issue

You only have one character that took more than 20 runs. You are far far far far far far more fortunate than myself. I concede your luck to be greater than mine.

Damn, I wasted a lot of time learning the mechanics of the game when all I really needed was some luck.

Balls.

FluffyCalico
05-05-2009, 12:47 AM
Where are you getting these times from? I know people who have ransacked both kobold and monastery countless times, looking for Resistance +5. Chances are, you may never get the rune you are after, its all random.

And how long does it take to run monestary? yep less than 15 min. How many runes do you get yep 2. 1 hr/15min=4 4x2=8 runes in an hr.

Everyone of my characters that wants +5 resistance has aquired it except for 1. If you go spend 1 hr per toon 2 times a week in monestary you will have your rune much quicker than you will pull everything from scratch for min 2 in the shroud.

FluffyCalico
05-05-2009, 12:50 AM
You only have one character that took more than 20 runs. You are far far far far far far more fortunate than myself. I concede your luck to be greater than mine.

Damn, I wasted a lot of time learning the mechanics of the game when all I really needed was some luck.

Balls.

And you want it to be like the shroud to get rid of luck? LAMO

I have some characters that pull scales left and right. I also have one with over 20 runs that has NEVER pulled a scale not 1. The runes are no more luck oreiented than the shroud. The only difference is you can't buy someone elses luck, you have to get it yourself.

Milamber69
05-05-2009, 12:58 AM
And how long does it take to run monestary? yep less than 15 min. How many runes do you get yep 2. 1 hr/15min=4 4x2=8 runes in an hr.

Everyone of my characters that wants +5 resistance has aquired it except for 1. If you go spend 1 hr per toon 2 times a week in monestary you will have your rune much quicker than you will pull everything from scratch for min 2 in the shroud.

You're missing the point, yeh there are 8 runes in an hour....thats great. Still doesnt mean you will get what you want in 8 runes or 100 runes

FluffyCalico
05-05-2009, 01:18 AM
You're missing the point, yeh there are 8 runes in an hour....thats great. Still doesnt mean you will get what you want in 8 runes or 100 runes

Same goes for every single piece of raid loot in the game. I have alot that didn't see **** for there 20th/40th runs on a raid. There are people out there with over 100 reavers and still no boots. It happens. The whole game works that way.

Do the hound 20 times and don't get the shield in your list. How much closer are you to getting it now?

Open the bloodstone chest 800 times and don't get one, how much closer to getting one are you?

Ollathir
05-05-2009, 01:25 AM
And you want it to be like the shroud to get rid of luck? LAMO

I have some characters that pull scales left and right. I also have one with over 20 runs that has NEVER pulled a scale not 1. The runes are no more luck oreiented than the shroud. The only difference is you can't buy someone elses luck, you have to get it yourself.

You had to bring up Shroud. LOL.

I keep a Shroud journal. Made it for 2 reasons, knowing who's off timer, and keeping track of Larges.
Since beggining of Feb. I've done the Shroud 47 times. bout 3 times a week. I've pulled 66 ingredients,

8 of those were Scales.

LOL, even though I already conceded your luck as superior, thanks for further validating my beleif in Luck over mechanics and rubbing my nose in the dirt. Here, let me roll around on the ground so you can kick me a few times for good measure.

FluffyCalico
05-05-2009, 01:29 AM
You had to bring up Shroud. LOL.

I keep a Shroud journal. Made it for 2 reasons, knowing who's off timer, and keeping track of Larges.
Since beggining of Feb. I've done the Shroud 47 times. bout 3 times a week. I've pulled 66 ingredients,

8 of those were Scales.

LOL, even though I already conceded your luck as superior, thanks for further validating my beleif in Luck over mechanics and rubbing my nose in the dirt. Here, let me roll around on the ground so you can kick me a few times for good measure.

If it helps only 2 characters I have can pull scales.

Also, you should only have about 11 scales so with 8 you aren't too far off.

Make more toons some will pull them and some won't. Trust me, my fighter thinks that place is an indian burrial ground. He pulls a friggin large arrowhead almost every run.

Ollathir
05-05-2009, 01:36 AM
If it helps the only 2 characters I have that can pull scales more than 1 in a blue moon are my 2nd cleric and my wizard. My fighter pulls arrowheads at least 50% of time. he has found so many arrowheads I am starting to think its an indian burrial ground.

I consider myself more of a "Bone" yard dog and "Shrapnel" king.

BLITHELY
05-05-2009, 01:58 AM
I like the mod 8 crafting. It's easy and simple.

Not like anything besides the soverign takes time.

I mean eldritch you can get what about 8 runes an hr? So even if it took you 40 runes you would have it in under 5 hrs of quest time. Think you will get 5 large scales in 5 hrs in the shroud? :eek:

Tempest, you only get about 4-5 an hr but there are less choices

Soverign you only get 2 an hr, I suppose if your group is very gifted maybe 3 but then you don't want them all to be a gimmie.

So for soverign for me
Cleric #1-1st try
Cleric #2-37th try
Fighter-17th
Sorc-1st try
Wizard-5th and still looking
Ranger 6th
Rogue 8th
Barb 2nd

That is far far far far far far better than hunting scales in the shroud.

Edit :Yes you have to wait after ransack before comming back for more runes but most have more than 1 character to play so not really an issue. Also shroud has a timer where the runes just have ransack


Well I will not disagree the way they setup crafting for the shroud was not balanced. If anyone had actually bothered 2 put it in a chart they would have noticed the extreme need for 1 ingredient for the most likely items 2 b crafted. Then again knowing Turbine they did it on purpose. As for the refuge crafting i have yet 2 get a single charcter exactly wht i desire and i have done SOS easily 50 times. Now I grant u the system i proposed would require u 2 possibly run the other quests more 2 get the lesser runes than the current system but then again maybe not random is random; does not matter if u run it once or a thousand times statistically its the same. Now imagine if u r a more casual player you will not even bother with trying 2 get the armour the randomness would be 2 daunting. Additionally how often now do u c lfms for those quests? On Argo it is quite inoften and even if u c 1 it often takes a long time 2 fill. Obviously most people hate the system currently and it needs a change.

FluffyCalico
05-05-2009, 02:03 AM
Now imagine if u r a more casual player you will not even bother with trying 2 get the armour the randomness would be 2 daunting. .

nah I disagree. Most causual players have either average gear or are looking to consolidate some gear items onto 1 armor. Most of them will find something worth keeping in their first couple runes as there are more than just 1 most of them are willing to accept. Only the hardcore who want 1 specific item per tier are likely to get stung by bad luck. As its one thing to say you did 20 runs and didnt see the 1 specific thing you wanted. It's something else totally to say you did 20 runs and didn't see any of the 4 things you wanted.

Bogenbroom
05-05-2009, 08:12 AM
nah I disagree. Most causual players have either average gear or are looking to consolidate some gear items onto 1 armor. Most of them will find something worth keeping in their first couple runes as there are more than just 1 most of them are willing to accept. Only the hardcore who want 1 specific item per tier are likely to get stung by bad luck. As its one thing to say you did 20 runs and didnt see the 1 specific thing you wanted. It's something else totally to say you did 20 runs and didn't see any of the 4 things you wanted.

And that, right there, is why I think the DT armor "crafting" is a win. I have 9 guys in level range to get DT armor. 7 have it and 5 have what I consider decent usable armor. None of them have run any SoS quest more than 3 times.

I play a lot, but I play like a casual gamer and the DT line is much more friendly to non-grinders. I do see where folks who will grind find it extremely frustrating, though. It should have a giant sign "If you grind this series, your head will explode." :)

Accelerando
05-05-2009, 08:44 AM
/signed

If I wanted to play slot machines I would go to vegas.

barecm
05-05-2009, 09:03 AM
I agree that the DT armor is a good way for the casual player to get some decent armor. That being said, they need to implement something that works for the not so casual player to get what they want, not a lottery system. Personally, I have burned at least 70-80 Eldritch looking for the +5 resists and have yet to get it. That was just on one toon. I got so exhausted from that I have not even started on some of my other toons. So, I just settled on something that is acceptable. I kind of gave up since I got bored and there are less groups running those quests now.

Which leads me to another point, since there is only a few 'good' combinations out there, once you find something you like, you are more likely to just stick with what you have. Therefore, less people are likely to run those quests after finding an acceptable combination which leads to less people doing SoS runs which means less pug opportunities, which defeats the idea of a good way for casual players to get good armor.

BlackSteel
05-05-2009, 09:12 AM
unbinding the runes, and making them tradable/sellable would suck w/o a way to identify them.

Seller has a stack of 12 runes, puts one in the altar and finds out that stack is Lionheart, puts the next 10 individually listed on the AH, keeping one in their backpack.

Buyer looks on AH and sees a huge collection of random runes with no idea which is what.

Making them identifiable, or identifiable AND trade-able would unbreak the crafting.

BLITHELY
05-05-2009, 12:19 PM
unbinding the runes, and making them tradable/sellable would suck w/o a way to identify them.

Seller has a stack of 12 runes, puts one in the altar and finds out that stack is Lionheart, puts the next 10 individually listed on the AH, keeping one in their backpack.

Buyer looks on AH and sees a huge collection of random runes with no idea which is what.

Making them identifiable, or identifiable AND trade-able would unbreak the crafting.

I have seen the indentify idea alot here is the reason they proly wont do it. Where do u make it identifiable? In the chest not going 2 happen since it makes the armour a gimme basically. At the machine well y bother u have the rune it either does wht u want or does not. Remeber Turbine's original vision was u would have 2 sets or armour 1 u could live with an another so u can eventually get it perfect. Will not comment on that vision since it would get me kicked from posting.

The second will never happen.

Please, this thread is getting a bit sidetracked, comment on my proposed fix on whether it would make u more likely 2 run the refuge 2 get armour or less.

BLITHELY
05-05-2009, 12:36 PM
Curious y everyone thinks a casual gamer is not as demanding of there equipment as everyone else. In fact I would bet they r more. If I could only play on weekends or for less than 10 hours a week I damn well want my couple of toons kitted out. Additionally there is easier, very solid armour, available. Armour from the Hound. Heavy armour even mithril at lvl 14+ is readily available on the AH at reasonable prices.

Look at the refuge lfms vs. everything else. A casual gamer is not likely 2 get a grp and even if they managed 2 get flagged then there is getting into a SOS grp. Seriously without some help its well nigh impossible for a casual person 2 get armour much less get what they want.

BLITHELY
05-07-2009, 02:26 AM
bump