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Riggs
04-17-2009, 01:23 PM
...and also fix the inflated AC issue.

Since redoing the animations for 4th, 5th, and presumably the coming 6th attack would be a lot of work, change the damage instead.

The issue is that the slower animations reduce damage, and back in the day an attack bonus was added instead to encourage people to not move to break the chain.

However to rationalize the increased attack, monsters ac was all jacked up, and in certain cases is still stupid high (A level 16 quest with a 60 ac monster is jacked).

So? Eliminate the added attack bonus for extra attacks entirely - or reduce it so that only the last attack gets a +5 say - and instead add DAMAGE for the extra attacks. And also reduce monster ac by 5 across the top for anything over 35-40 basically.

So the slower animation will be made up by increased damage if you go through the full chain, which will not only eliminate the DPS complaint/problem (and yes its a problem if as you go up in level you do LESS damage than you did the level before), but will help out and be a big incentive for DR monsters.

Easy fix, no new animations, and the initial intention of making players use all the attack animations will be fulfilled, without the current penalty - and AC will become more balanced to boot.

Korvek
04-17-2009, 01:28 PM
Enemies have a high AC in this game?

News to me.

cforce
04-17-2009, 02:28 PM
I'd agree that I don't have too many problems hitting stuff, but I think that distracts from Riggs point, which is a good one: something needs to change to attacks 3-6 to remove the 'make sure you move every 2 swings' incentive. I only today realized just how much this is thanks to Shade -- by sitting still, you're missing out on potentially a 50% increase in damage dealt! Now that I've seen that number, I'm off to start practicing my mid-chain-move technique.

So regardless of whether or not the attack bonuses are changed, or what monster AC is, attacks 3-6 need to either be (a) faster or (b) more damaging!

BlackSteel
04-17-2009, 04:53 PM
funny, I've been saying the same thing for the year Shade had off



its b/c i'm WF isnt it

Riggs
04-18-2009, 12:57 PM
There was a bunch of things that had a high ac back on day 1, and it was only because fighters had action boost - so monsters were balanced to that, and everyone else couldnt hit things on elite.

Many monsters have already been toned down over time. But some still have a 55-60 ac.

Try hitting a 60 ac without the +5 and +10 on 4th and 5th swings. Thats the point - there are still some monsters that are too far over.

For everything else, yeah its easy to hit, and many people complain that the extra +10 to hit is useless because they can already hit things, but the attack is slower so they do less damage.

That is the issue. Not "Oh I can hit things most of the time" (Wow great analysis there).

There is also the other ac issue, that players have too many stacking boosts, so certain classes/races can hit a high number, so monsters are balanced according to those numbers - and everyone else gets hosed even with every piece of ac boosting gear that can fit, and still only get a 45 ac say, which in half the contect is about the same has having 0 ac. But that is a separate fix.

Monsters are either easy to hit, so the +10 to hit is wasted, or hard to hit, and you need the +10 to hit them.

Which makes classes without max bab gimped in melee not because of they class, but because of an arbitrary add on to the game. A bab 16 fighter gets +10 to hit every few swings. A bard/rogue/cleric/wiz does not. (Clerics can get divine power, but thats also not the point). Because those classes are only 4 bab lower, they get an additional -5 to -10 every few swings compared to a melee class. Which adds up to a -14 to hit instead of -4, because they dont get the bonus from the last swing.

That wasnt how D&D was supposed to go. it is a d20 system, which means anything beyond a 20 point spread gets absurd.

If a player has a +35 to hit on the first swing, they should still have a +35 on the last swing (or add the -5 per swing rule, but I dont see that happening), not +45. Then monsters can be balanced according to what they can do without adding 10 ac on the to to keep ahead of the extra swing bonuses.

And people wont be losing damage on things they can hit regulaly because of a slower and slower attack chain.

Pyromaniac
04-19-2009, 05:52 AM
Sadly, there are likely a lot of players out there who need the extra +s to hit on the last attack sequences. At least that's the only way I can explain some of the poor DPS that's out there when pugging.

I'd rather have them just speed up the attack sequences in question. The major thing that would still be needed is keeping the same current ratio of speed between 2HF and 2WF, as otherwise we'd see some more DPS game balancing issues.