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View Full Version : Suggestions for the present and future of DDO



Kalari
04-17-2009, 10:43 AM
Since Kate Paiz stated in the interview that she and the others do read the forums, or as she put it "I take what I read in the forums and bring them to my development team." I would like to address things that I could not ask personally and somethings Id like to see that can be brought to the Turbine team. These are a few things Id like to see looked at and maybe addressed towards the game present and future player base. I dont expect a direct response from developers or the Paiz's. What I would like to ask is that people leave their ideas and visions for the games future in hopes that Kate really does take our feedback seriously, and will look to incorporate our ideas and keep older players along with interesting new players.

Please note I do not want this to turn into an argument thread or flame war. I am asking nicely to leave that outside this thread. I really want it to be taken seriously. so the ideas and questions I am putting forth are not here to be blasted. I encourage anyone who has an idea for the game to post here without ridicule. This is about what we as individual players want towards the collective whole. We will not all agree on everything put here but its not the place to argue or put down others thoughts.

With that I give my address to the Paiz's and the dev team on what I would like to see happen to keep this game fresh and viable:

1. In the subject of user controlled content, while I think any outlet to bring more content in would help with a major problem of lack of said content. Would it be possible to open a channel where players with ideas can put forth said ideas and have them seriously looked at by yourself and your dev team? If it has to be made in contest form fine, but an real need to look at the players ideas for quests should be given a true outlet. Many people have made suggestions in their own threads but lets face it after awhile those threads get buried and with the tone of the forums we need a section people can utilize for the games future content wise. Sure there will be rejection of ideas/story paths and people will have their feelings hurt but at least with a place where we can submit quest ideas players will have the feeling that we do have options in the direction of where this game can go in the future.


2. Gameplay outside of questing, crafting and raiding. Many of you know that D&D is a social game that incorporates roleplay. Of course in an MMO its hard to focus on this as good as a pen and paper sit down session. But with what ive seen of the changes on Lamania with the large now empty taverns and the busy marketplace, there really should be more options for us players to enage in areas other then questing for fun. More social outlets emotes, ability to sit in taverns would help the quality of the game. Housing (even though many think its a waste of time) would help motivate some who are generally tired of questing in whole and would like other things to do with their time/platinum. Things that have been suggested are such "more gambling games." A seige type game for guilds vs guilds where we have our own guild houses or keeps and issue challenges to one and other. More world events would be nice to it doesnt have to be invasions all the time. Perhaps a contest that involves all servers for the best of the best? A world wide fashion contest for the title of "best of this server style wise" Sure many players do this themselves with the limited resources we have for role play. But an actual focus on these things where maybe we dont have to create raid groups just an area where anyone who enters can communicate via voice and role play would be nice.

3. This goes sorta hand in hand with the user controlled content, while your suggestion forums is great for people to vent about things they like to see changed or things they would like to see added. Many players of the game are artists, writers and even musicians. Being realistic we know we cannot all work for DDO. But our love for the game makes us eager to pass our work over to be reviewed and maybe get some recognition in the forum of having it put in game. I would like to see a focus on people who submit things as art, music, or story ideas to be able to without the promise of a job, but in game recognition. Such as "The soundtrack to this quest was created by user53" Or this quest was created by "nightfairy", and art work recognition so on and so forth.

4. If no new classes are being introduced soon, more options for classes already established in game. No im not talking capstones or pre's either. Many classes are missing abilities that d&d and other games have given them. One right off the bat goes to the rogue class, while yes versus other players it would be hairy and something that may not be suitable for pvp, being able to pick pocket enemies in game would give something to the rogue class that Ive alway found lacking in this game. Lets face it traps are boring, assination is interesting. But to me the rogues versitality in doing things to keep as far away from direct combat is still lacking. The ability to take down a quest without always having to kill things would be where a rogue could shine to. More reasons to add to things like bluff, diplomacy and the like would help all classes as well. Right now umd is the king of the skill you really want to pump up why? because it helps with versitilty. Not every party will have the optimal builds and not everyone wants to babysit a hireling. More options to help players take on quests in other ways then plowing threw the enemy and bonuses for said things would be nice. I always loved that extra boost for "surviving the lowroads" without killing anything. I miss things like that.

5. Point blank while bringing in new players is great, the longevity of this game dies out without other things do do outside questing, raiding and grinding for the next new trend to have. People would not be so focus on the big nerfs to weapons if there were other things outside of using said weapons to do. No im not saying they would not gripe or complain about changes but the changes would not seem so drastic to people if this game had other paths and focuses. Diverting players attention from the long releases between mods, the changes that have recently rocked the forums with the release notes is a neccessary thing. Ignoring other outlets for your player base old and new will be something that constantly drags the game to a halt after people get to cap for the umpteenth time.


This is all just my opinion I hope that if Mr. and Mrs Paiz do take the time to read this that they understand while I love DDO I can see why people get so up in arms about the lack of this and the change to that. Youve given us a vast world to play in. But we need more with in the world to work with to keep us from falling to the wayside and losing interest and leaving. To my fellow forum posters I ask you to think about things youd like to see in this games future a long with ways to implement them viably. It may not seem like it but I really do think giving our voices to what we would like to see and how to go about it will one day make positive changes to this game.

**Sorry for the multi color post, but since my ideas made for a large wall of text, I thought color coding may ease the read a little.**

Lucian_Navarro
04-17-2009, 05:35 PM
How about "Fully Dynamic Quests". Similar to the roaming traps and runes. If you could make dungeons with dynamic doors, walls, traps, end bosses, objectives, optionals, etc then that would spice things up.

I see that you are moving in this direction and I like it.

Also, I think having access to the QA Server (Risia and Lama) is a bad idea. It gives players access to solve quests even before the majority see it so the market gets flooded with new items at stupid prices and you see LFM's with "Know your role" to quests out for only 5 minutes.

I'm just thinking out load... no flaming... all positive feedback.

Kalari
04-17-2009, 05:59 PM
No I agree I think that letting some and I do mean some since many could not get the TDM to work see things that should be live is going to hurt the game. Its hard when you want to test out bugs and all but does the preview server really do this? If I believed it to be so then id agree its needed. Right now all its doing is throwing some grade f meat and the hungry players waiting for mod 9.

And I do agree with you Lucian about newer quest dynamics. No matter what new content they put out if its going to be the same thing only done with different mobs people are going to be tired quickly.I will admit the stuff ive just recently gotten to see like the sorjek really excited me the first time...but doing it repeatedly..yeah it will fall under speed runs soon and become a blur.. Quests need more catching to them then just how fast can we run and get xp or optimal loot.

And the game really needs TIME AND PLAT SINKS! besides the weapon of flavor since W/P are supposedly gonna be useless now. For goodness sake give the players things outside questing. In your other favored game you have fishing, crafting that really involves hands on gathering of ingrediants not just hoping for random loot in chests. DDO deserves this kind of attention to.

Trying not to rant or be negative either but its really time to think if you cannot bring more classes/races or content soon, and so keen on revamping content. Then put things in the game that will hold peoples interest outside quests.

You said your reading the forums Mrs Paiz plenty posters have left great ideas, its time to focus on them.

Bradik_Losdar
04-17-2009, 10:52 PM
Kalari makes excellent points above! I hope the powers that be see this thread.

However, it isn't the lack of ideas for DDO that's killing the game, it's a lack of manpower to implement them.

User created content like that currently being done in City of Heroes is one enormous way to engage the player base. As Kalari said, DDO players are very creative and imaginative - let us help make the game we love better for both our fellow players and future players.

Give us the tools to add music, create quests, etc. and you will have thousands of motivated and caring developers adding content to the game. Even the most hard core player complaining about lack of content would be drowning in it in short order.

The development team does a fantastic job with what they produce - we wouldn't be here nagging that there isn't enough of it if they didn't! There just aren't enough of them to put out the volume of content that is currently being demanded.

Take Kalari's ideas and run with them! Let us help you help us! (we'll even pay you to let us do so! :D)

branmakmuffin
04-17-2009, 11:25 PM
5. Point blank while bringing in new players is great, the longevity of this game dies out without other things do do outside questing, raiding and grinding for the next new trend to have. People would not be so focus on the big nerfs to weapons if there were other things outside of using said weapons to do. No im not saying they would not gripe or complain about changes but the changes would not seem so drastic to people if this game had other paths and focuses. Diverting players attention from the long releases between mods, the changes that have recently rocked the forums with the release notes is a neccessary thing. Ignoring other outlets for your player base old and new will be something that constantly drags the game to a halt after people get to cap for the umpteenth time.
I'm not sure if the game dies, but adding stuff to do outside of quests, like housing, and which is not wholly based on player-to-player interaction (as RP is now) would go a long way to making the game more interesting for many players (other than the "if it's not new quests and/or raids, it's not content" types).

Kalari
04-18-2009, 06:30 PM
I honestly hope someone who has any say in the companies direction will browse these ideas. Im not looking to toot my own horn cause many of the things ive listed have been ideas people who have played this game before me have asked for.

So im putting it to you guys who can make this happen, yes we know you want to bring in new blood. But please do not do it at the complete expense of the people who have been with you since release.

New content, the future of the game, things to do outside questing, a way to showcase our talents for the good of ddo. This is what we are asking for, I dont think its too much considering there are many of us worried about our place in the future of ddo. I can understand even if I did not agree with the skirting done in the TTH interview that you could not give concrete answers on things. I dont want to be like others who are taking this as the games death knell. I just want to find a balance between your catering to new players and keeping the older players here, because even if some of them come across as negative in the forums there are plenty of good helpful players from the start who are getting tired to. They may not be as vocal and some of them leave without announcements. Thats going to hurt this game in the long run.

Once your done beating down quests, getting all the classes and combos that interest you to cap whats next? This needs addressing and I hope that in future projects it will be.

Bradik_Losdar
04-20-2009, 10:30 AM
Why is it that amazingly good threads like this so often just slide into obscurity, when others telling how to tweak out another .00000001 point of damage get to be 57 pages in length? lol! Even a just "/signed" would help.

Heck, even Bran had something positive to say here - that speaks volumes by itself!:D

Kalari
04-20-2009, 10:43 AM
Thanks Bradik, people are probably leery of leaving their opinions right now. And since I asked nicely to leave the fighting outside that probably has kept this thread quiet to.

I just seriously hope that Turbine sees the potential letting in letting us players provide more ideas and insight to the games future. Its really easy to go threw the hundreds of complaint threads and say "well that does seem unbalanced lets change this" and have a big nerf.

This thread is calling on you bigwigs to trust in your player base let us send out ideas to you. Were mostly adults here some of us have had our ideas rejected a few times. We understand you wont be able to implement everything we think up but give us a true outlet for it and let the stars who play this game shine. I feel in the long run it will bring you the results you are looking for. More interest in game and more revenue.

baylensman
04-20-2009, 10:52 AM
1. new content is very nice. However how important is it? I know lots of fokls still have their old nintendo system and pop in Mario and play for hours, if the game is good it can be fun to go back to or even keep active 9how many folks still hit the solitaire button on there desk top?)

2. Game play outside of guest instances. This would go a long way in keeping people interested who are at cap or even those who don't feel like grinding away for the next level.

3. User input. I don't know what the mechanism is for coding our ideas artwork music into the game is, perhaps the software is so proprietary that turbine doesn't want anyone to monkey with it? Still some kind of limited functionality could be made available to the player base.

4. Change to existing classes. I agree it needs to be done, so much was slapdash at the begining of the game three years ago. However if it is ever implemented a series re-spec mechanism needs to go with it.

5.Bringing in new folks to the player base is very important, I feel that a huge influx of newbs will help make us old timers more interested in rerunning old stuff again even if we have to delete and reroll. We all take a certain amount of enjoyment is passing on knowledge and experience, new content however still needs to be balanced with other enhancements to the game.

I think that MOD 9 has everyone so worked up because its too dang big and too many changes. I think that the next round of mods should be broken up, game play issues new class, new abilities released seperate from content changes. Almost every mod has brought a mixture of both. If they came seperate imagine you could runs of the content at least twice once pre ability/game play changes once post gameplay/ability changes. I also agree that the preview server is a bad idea, by the time the MOD goes "live" there is nothing new, it like watching a movie in the living room, then taking the DVD into the bedroom and watching again. Just pointless

Draccus
04-20-2009, 10:59 AM
Excellent points, Kalari. I'll add my thoughts to user created content.

We have to look no further than the last WotC sanctioned PC games to see the impact that user created content would have on the game. The Neverwinter Nights series of games has enjoyed years of success primarly due to user created content. They are, primarily, single player games yet have a following that rivals many MMOs.

The system works. Sure, the details are challenging but you can't question the success. I personally think this would be the grand slam home run for Turbine and is worth them figuring out the details.

How would Turbine like to be the first and only MMO with user-created content? Do you think that would make headlines? That would be the biggest advancement in MMOs since Everquest brought 3D graphics to the genre 11 years ago. Every subsequent MMO has been nothing more than a modest improvement on that venerable model.

How would Turbine like to have an army of people PAYING THEM TO WORK FOR THEM? That's exactly what you get with user created content. You get a bunch of raving fans sending you $15 per month so they can build quests for your game and begging you to add them to the live servers.

Mechanics? Bah, you're smart people and you'll figure it out. The cost and effort would be trivial compared to the benefits of being the first innovative MMO in 11 years. Maybe you dump your development team and replace them with a playtesting team that does nothing but evaluate user-submitted mods and incorporate the good ones into the live servers with monthly (gasp!) updates.

If that's too much and the Playtesting team is getting bogged down by hundreds of stupid submissions (like the 15,000+ NWN modules out there, of which only about 1000 are playable), then push that back to the community, too! Set up a place where people can post individual quests for people download, play, and vote on. The Turbine Playtest Team (TPT (tm)) will then only need to evaluate the top vote-getters.

This would be the big win for DDO in my humble, NWN-loving opinion.

Kalari
04-20-2009, 11:15 AM
Even if they didnt want to get rid of their core developers I could see the potential in having a way to submit real quest/raid (story arc) ideas for the game. The best way to weed out junk would make strict rules.

Such as:

1. Content must correlate with the Eberron setting.
2. One submission per time period
3. Content must contain this much info to be considered.

It could make it where the users get to help create content without the people who do work hard for the game losing their jobs. I think in the long run theres only going to be so much devils stuff we can have before that becomes the same ole. Dungeons and Dragons is an ever changing game, we should have quests and stories that reflect that.

As for the need to respect if they gave classes more to do Id definitely support that. I think its sad that many skills go un looked at since they are pretty much useless in game. That many classes simply lack things that man pen and paper players cherish. The ability to bluff your way out of a situation should be looked at as almost a disguise like feature. You can actually trick mobs into thinking your one of them. Stuff like that made old campaigns fun.

In lotro when you play an instrument you can actually play songs that others know from popular to obscure if you learn the key stuff. I never got why we have bards that only play the same tunes. If its a system thing can there not be a way to get some of the things lord of the rings has to implement better music options? And seriously time sinks/plat sinks can and will keep people who are bored with the same ole around thats all I did when I played lotro was go around doing silly little side things and gathering ingredients for crafting instead of running a raid till im blue in the face in the hopes to get said ingredients.

without some of these features I just dont see how they will keep even new players they bring in with mod 9 once they get a few capped people under their belts. And with how easy a lot of the changes are making things for new players it will be even faster for them to get capped characters.

tihocan
04-20-2009, 11:38 AM
Why is it that amazingly good threads like this so often just slide into obscurity
Typically, threads that start with a very long post don't attract much attention, due to a lot of people not willing to read it all (I know I don't, I spend already too much time on forums ;)).
I'm not sure colors really help for this, though they definitely attract the eye :D

barecm
04-20-2009, 12:38 PM
Maybe I am in the minority, but when I log in (which is becoming more difficult these days) I want to play the game, not play side games. If I wanted to sit in a bar, I would go down the street and sit in a real bar myself... and have a beer or two; not log into DDO. If I wanted to do home improvement projects, I would head to my local hardware store; not log into DDO. If I wanted to play hide and seek, question and answer games or gambling games I would play hide and seek with my daughter, play a game of Trivial Pursuit or have my friends over for poker night; not log into DDO. So, I would rather see more playable content instead.

And as far as grinding, I would make items harder to get, expand crafting and make ingredients harder to get as well. I point to one game that has had a long, long run... Diablo II LOD. If you look at the game itself, the content is puny compared to today's games. What it did have was addicting combat and a loot system that catered to grinding. The highest lvl items were extremely rare. Crafting was also made difficult by making the high end ingredients exremely difficult to find. DDO makes it way too easy to aquire high lvl equipment.

Gratch
04-20-2009, 12:58 PM
I don't think from what Turbine has said that they'll ever get user created content into the game... even NWN with a built-for-users-tools ended up with mostly lacking multiplayer quests... and a lot of great solo quests. Based on the creaping of content we get... the content creation in DDO is pretty complex.

My hope is that V&M (Vast and Mysterious) actually adds in "random dungeons" for us. Random traps/semi-random layout/random scaled mobs for the level of the party. Just something to give some changeup to what we currently run. Even if it debuts with just a few terrain types/mob types... would still be nice to go into a dungeon not knowing what it contains.

The only info we have on what's currently coming up:
-Finishing off PrE's for all classes in Mod 10, Mod 11
-Was a possibility of Half-Orc/Half-Elf in Mod 10, but Kate's recent comments sounds like that's a pipe dream for Mod 10 or possibly at all with her BS comment of "Half-Orcs aren't in the first of the split up WotC 4th ed player's handbooks".
-She did say something about the druid moving further out and maybe favored soul moving up as a new class.

Beyond that... it sounds like they're in an "evaluation state" on where to go/what to do with DDO. Which is kind of sad. Though that may be due to the community constantly commenting on Kate's previous forward looking statements... so that she's now hesistant to say anything about the future of DDO.

Kalari
04-20-2009, 04:21 PM
In another thread I pretty much stated that no matter what goals they want to see for DDO's future that commenting on them would be like shooting themselves in the foot. No matter what if they say something they want to see many take it as set in stone thats what they are going to bring.

I did not hear Kate say there would be no druids/half orcs. Yes I heard the lame thing about 4.0 but I think it was a cover to say "we havent gotten this down yet and dont know when." And probably felt nervous to say that cause lets face it the negative feelings from lack of communication wouldnt have helped.

As far as user content I still believe allowing us to submit real ideas having them looked at by devs would give a boost of morale this game is lacking lately. To feel like the players say actually does make a difference would help against the nay sayers who say we dont matter to the people who call the shots.

As far as your comment barecm I respect what your saying. But I dont know if I can agree. I currently know my favorites to play will become capped again soon after the mod is released. I could probably slow it down and all but even if I did a year from now I could see myself capping all my slots on both servers I actively play on and then what?

crafting after seeing how its done in lord of the rings I do not understand while explorer areas like the vale, orchard and other wilderness style areas do not yield crafting materials. Or why we have to be dependent on raiding till were burned out, or an over priced auction house just to craft.

and there are plenty of players who love dungeons and dragons for role play reasons, some of them arent into running a quest a million times for gear, or favor or xp. They sign on to socialize. sure they may seem like a minority but they pay just like the rest of us and could probably bring in more people who would play for the same reasons if they were given. More money=more ideas that can be funded for us all.

Thats all im really trying to push for, theres got to be more then "give us new quests" to keep people interested in this game. More options within a quest outsidie of kill boss and his minions steal loot would be appreciated to.