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Nevthial
04-06-2009, 08:08 PM
Cloudkill + Acid Fog , will the acid damage stack or is this nerfed too with changes? Anyone care to speculate, or perhaps a Dev can answer?????

MrCow
04-06-2009, 08:12 PM
Historically, the highest spell (by spell level) bestows damage if the element types are similar. The other effects deal no damage, but remain in case the highest effect fades.

Incendiary Cloud takes precedence over Wall of Fire
Acid Fog takes precedence over Acid Rain
Acid Rain takes precedence over Melf's Acid Arrow

Based on this, Acid Fog will deal HP damage, but Cloudkill will deal no HP damage when stacked. If this issue persists into module 9 then I speculate this is how it will be.

Freeman
04-06-2009, 08:13 PM
Cloudkill + Acid Fog , will the acid damage stack or is this nerfed too with changes? Anyone care to speculate, or perhaps a Dev can answer?????

I don't know if it will stack or not, but either way, increasing a spell's power to include MORE damage isn't what I would call a nerf.

Nevthial
04-06-2009, 08:15 PM
Historically, the highest spell (by spell level) bestows damage if the element types are similar. The other effects deal no damage, but remain in case the highest effect fades.

Incendiary Cloud takes precedence over Wall of Fire
Acid Fog takes precedence over Acid Rain
Acid Rain takes precedence over Melf's Acid Arrow

Based on this, Acid Fog will deal HP damage, but Cloudkill will deal no HP damage when stacked. If this issue persists into module 9 then I speculate this is how it will be.

yeah I was hoping it wouldnt be this way though, Cloudkill won't be Cloudkill, it will be more like : CloudStunnedMinorAcidDamageNowYouDieBecauseNothing InTheCloudDied Spell...........

Freeman
04-06-2009, 08:17 PM
yeah I was hoping it wouldnt be this way though, Cloudkill won't be Cloudkill, it will be more like : CloudStunnedMinorAcidDamageNowYouDieBecauseNothing InTheCloudDied Spell...........

Oh, you meant the change in Con damage not killing things was the nerf. That didn't even occur to me, since I haven't seen Cloudkill used to actually kill things if a very long time.

Korvek
04-06-2009, 08:20 PM
yeah I was hoping it wouldnt be this way though, Cloudkill won't be Cloudkill, it will be more like : CloudStunnedMinorAcidDamageNowYouDieBecauseNothing InTheCloudDied Spell...........

It said the damage would be 2d8+caster level, yes?

That's better than Wall of Fire.

Lorien_the_First_One
04-06-2009, 08:41 PM
This is actually a very positive change to CK given the change to con damage... If you put up CK for ppl with w/p or wounders to fight in you contribute to the con damage and then help with acid damage to take them out.

Nevthial
04-06-2009, 08:49 PM
This is actually a very positive change to CK given the change to con damage... If you put up CK for ppl with w/p or wounders to fight in you contribute to the con damage and then help with acid damage to take them out.

Yeah it might work nicely, prob just have to drop Acid Fog for Solid Fog and go with it I figure.

Junts
04-06-2009, 08:51 PM
yeah I was hoping it wouldnt be this way though, Cloudkill won't be Cloudkill, it will be more like : CloudStunnedMinorAcidDamageNowYouDieBecauseNothing InTheCloudDied Spell...........

You're ignorant: cloudkill's acid damage is -identical to firewall's flame damage- plus it stuns when things hit 0 con.


Plus you can throw a firewall in there too and both will tick since they are different elements!

omg! ck is a better dps spell than acid fog now.

Nevthial
04-06-2009, 08:55 PM
You're ignorant: cloudkill's acid damage is -identical to firewall's flame damage- plus it stuns when things hit 0 con.


Plus you can throw a firewall in there too and both will tick since they are different elements!

omg! ck is a better dps spell than acid fog now.

Only if the CON damage scales as it should by creature hit dice. Otherwise, no , it's a bad change. A creature with 8000 hit points will laugh at it otherwise.

MrCow
04-06-2009, 08:57 PM
Only if the CON damage scales as it should by creature hit dice.

CON damage has always scaled via monster HD, much like CON damage has always scaled on your characters for lost maximum/current HP as you rose in level. Its the reason that CON-based HP damage will still have potency even after "0 CON doesn't kill", especially on elementals we fight in the high end of DDO that have around 40 HD.

Lifespawn
04-06-2009, 09:04 PM
fw+sf+ck=ownage no need to stress about af anymore :)

Nevthial
04-06-2009, 09:05 PM
CON damage has always scaled via monster HD, much like CON damage has always scaled on your characters for lost maximum/current HP as you rose in level. Its the reason that CON-based HP damage will still have potency even after "0 CON doesn't kill", especially on elementals we fight in the high end of DDO that have around 40 HD.

I trust you Mr. Cow ! If I'm disappointed when Mod 9 is released, I'm blaming you ! j/k :)

Gum
04-06-2009, 09:09 PM
Thank you Thank you Thank you for some acid love. Much appreciated.

MrCow
04-06-2009, 09:17 PM
If I'm disappointed when Mod 9 is released, I'm blaming you ! j/k

If it makes you feel any better, by all means. :p

As far as HP damage via CON, a monster who gets CON damage follows the exact same rules as players. They lose 1 current/maximum HP per Hit Dice. So if you pop off a 475% damage CL 16 cloudkill (acid spec, maximize, empower, superior potency) on a poisonable creature with 35 HD and the fortitude save is failed and takes 4 CON damage it would take 95 - 133 acid damage + 70 damage via CON loss.

Angelus_dead
04-06-2009, 11:16 PM
omg! ck is a better dps spell than acid fog now.
Keep in mind that poison immunity still protects against cloudkill- even against the acid damage. That means CK won't work on undead and won't work on bosses.

That's according to how it's written in the release notes- no guarantees that description is correct, of course.

Nevthial
04-06-2009, 11:30 PM
If it makes you feel any better, by all means. :p

As far as HP damage via CON, a monster who gets CON damage follows the exact same rules as players. They lose 1 current/maximum HP per Hit Dice. So if you pop off a 475% damage CL 16 cloudkill (acid spec, maximize, empower, superior potency) on a poisonable creature with 35 HD and the fortitude save is failed and takes 4 CON damage it would take 95 - 133 acid damage + 70 damage via CON loss.

I wasn't positive if it scaled them like us. ( Never really tested anything but actual stat damage or hit point damage separately. Not together to see if it worked.) Eh, it's no real big deal then, should work just as fine as before. :)

Eladrin
04-07-2009, 11:23 AM
Keep in mind that poison immunity still protects against cloudkill- even against the acid damage. That means CK won't work on undead and won't work on bosses.

That's according to how it's written in the release notes- no guarantees that description is correct, of course.
That is accurate. Cloudkill also doesn't deal double damage against undead like Wall of Fire does. (It ends up dealing no damage due to their poison immunity.)

Edit: If you find some unusual undead at some point that is affected by poison, the "no double damage" part might come up.

moorewr
04-07-2009, 11:24 AM
That is accurate. Cloudkill also doesn't deal double damage against undead like Wall of Fire does. (It ends up dealing no damage due to their poison immunity.)

It does HP damage now.. does that mean that it can be maximized and/or empowered, or has that remained unchanged?

Quanefel
04-07-2009, 12:14 PM
That is accurate. Cloudkill also doesn't deal double damage against undead like Wall of Fire does. (It ends up dealing no damage due to their poison immunity.)

Edit: If you find some unusual undead at some point that is affected by poison, the "no double damage" part might come up.

I thought it was because they were like...dead. No breathing.....>.>

pumagirl418
04-07-2009, 12:19 PM
leave ck alone devs
yet another way to nerf con affects.

sure its a cool idea, if i didn't think they saves were going to be so nerfed on it to make it almost pointless

Missing_Minds
04-07-2009, 01:06 PM
leave ck alone devs
yet another way to nerf con affects.

sure its a cool idea, if i didn't think they saves were going to be so nerfed on it to make it almost pointless

Emm.. if they didn't change cloud kill... How could just the cloud alone ever live up to the name of "kill". This way it still is cloudkill VS. cloud_utterly_freaking_annoy.

I'm actually greatful they remember the spell when they changed stat damage.

You do realize what this change to stat damage also means? It means that the silver flame heal pots can't kill min/maxers anymore either.

sephiroth1084
04-07-2009, 01:12 PM
Historically, the highest spell (by spell level) bestows damage if the element types are similar. The other effects deal no damage, but remain in case the highest effect fades.

Incendiary Cloud takes precedence over Wall of Fire


Really? I was completely unaware of this. Are you sure? I was fairly sure that I saw a lot more numbers popping up, but if this is the case, I can understand why I'm the only person I've ever seen throw an incendiary cloud.

sephiroth1084
04-07-2009, 02:34 PM
Historically, the highest spell (by spell level) bestows damage if the element types are similar. The other effects deal no damage, but remain in case the highest effect fades.

Incendiary Cloud takes precedence over Wall of Fire


Really? I was completely unaware of this. Are you sure? I was fairly sure that I saw a lot more numbers popping up, but if this is the case, I can understand why I'm the only person I've ever seen throw an incendiary cloud.

pumagirl418
04-08-2009, 10:34 AM
and why can't we have a stat go to 0? because some how that unbalances the game? if they didn't nerf stat damage, then they wouldn't need to find a way to make ck still work. again it really won't matter because the monsters will make the save anyway.

in this game we kill stuff, right? or is this another step in a lower game rating? prime example of old timers, the librarian in catacombs. use to be the only reason worth running that chain, guy gets his throat ripped out.... and now... bah...

kill kill kill die die die!