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Show_me_the_Platinum
03-28-2009, 09:30 AM
Ok I know this one is going to turn into a train wreck like all my other posts. But I want to hear what people think about this.

Why does everyone who is TWF want to be a oversized two weapon fighter? You're arguing over 2-4 points of base damage.

One Handed Weapon

Kopesh 1d8 19-20 x3
Battleaxe 1d8 20 x3
Warhammer 1d8 20 x3
Rapier 1d6 18-20 x2
Heavy Pick 1d6 20 x4

Light Weapons

Handaxe 1d6 20 x3
Short Sword 1d6 19-20 x2
Kukri 1d4 18-20 x2
Light Hammer 1d4 20 x2
Light Pick 1d4 20 x4

By using a light off hand weapon you free up a feat and don't reduce your attack bonus.

Nick_RC
03-28-2009, 09:36 AM
Because anyone with sence that oversizes uses a khopeshes (or too a lesser extent GS dwarven axes).

There is no light weapon substitute for a 17-20/x3 in a light weapon. Also the base damage on a DA is 3d6 vs 1d6 gor a handaxe.

N

stockwizard5
03-28-2009, 09:39 AM
Look again at your own numbers ...

Kopesh 1d8 19-20 x3
Handaxe 1d6 20 x3

So its 1 + 10% * Base Better ... not 1 or 2 points better.

Show_me_the_Platinum
03-28-2009, 09:49 AM
Ya TWF Kopesh. That takes up 2 feats. 1 to use Kopesh without a -4 to hit. Another to use 2 of them for no penalty.

I don't use Kopeshs cause I think they are overated. If I want to crit more often I take a Kukri, Scimitar, Rapier, or Falchion with the improve crit feat

Improve Crit Slashing
Scimitar 15-20 x2
Kukri 15-20 x2

I'll crit 10% more times then with the Kopesh. I did one of those charts Kopesh vs Scimitar, and the Scimitar out damaged the Kopesh. I need to find that chart I did.

Darn it. I messed up the charts

Mhykke
03-28-2009, 09:52 AM
Your chart is incorrect. Check again.

Nick_RC
03-28-2009, 09:58 AM
Ya TWF Kopesh. That takes up 2 feats. 1 to use Kopesh without a -4 to hit. Another to use 2 of them for no penalty.


Im assuming u are a melee class? And im assuming u are a 2 weapon fighter? If ur goal is DPS then freakin DPS. All the numbers add up in the end. Like the rage pot or the boost or getting hit once after manual madstone activation and switching boots so u can manually activate from a second pair so that u are consistently 2 higher. If ur an intimitank sure go a different route.

From what ive read u seem to be a x class does x type of guy. This reasoning flys in the face of the OP. DPS is DPS all the numbers add up. And there is a severe lacking of combat feats (worthwhile ones) in the game anyway.

N

Gunga
03-28-2009, 10:01 AM
From what ive read u seem to be a x class does x type of guy.
N

I agree.

Get in game and roll a 28pt dps machine on G.

No Zerging.

stockwizard5
03-28-2009, 10:03 AM
I did one of those charts Kopesh vs Scimitar, and the Scimitar out damaged the Kopesh

15-20/x2: 14 Normal Hits + 6 Critical Hits * 2 = 26
17-20/x3: 16 Normal Hits + 4 Critical Hits * 3 = 28

Since the 17-20/x3 also has higher base damage ... more damage * more times applied >> less damage * less times applied.

Aranticus
03-28-2009, 10:22 AM
Ya TWF Kopesh. That takes up 2 feats. 1 to use Kopesh without a -4 to hit. Another to use 2 of them for no penalty.

I don't use Kopeshs cause I think they are overated. If I want to crit more often I take a Kukri, Scimitar, Rapier, or Falchion with the improve crit feat

Improve Crit Slashing
Scimitar 15-20 x2
Kukri 15-20 x2

I'll crit 10% more times then with the Kopesh. I did one of those charts Kopesh vs Scimitar, and the Scimitar out damaged the Kopesh. I need to find that chart I did.

Darn it. I messed up the charts

of coz when you look at the feats, it makes no sense. but people who use khopeshes are likely to be players who tweak their toons to such and extent that they are going to use that 2 feats to squeeze the max dps out

yes weapons like rapiers, scimitars crit more often than khopesh but the khopesh crit harder than them. while you do not crit more often, you crit for higher damages. look at these numbers here

bonus 0, 20 attacks. w/o IC
scimitar = 16x3.5 + 3x2x3.5 = 77
khopesh = 17x4.5 + 2x3x4.5 = 103.5 (26.5 more damage)

bonus 10, 20 attacks. w/o IC
scimitar = 16x13.5 + 3x2x13.5 = 297
khopesh = 17x14.5 + 2x3x14.5 = 333.5 (36.5 more damage)

bonus 10, 20 attacks. w IC
scimitar = 13x13.5 + 6x2x13.5 =337.5
khopesh = 15x14.5 + 4x3x14.5 = 391.5 (54 more damage)

this is just base weapon damage, i have yet include weapon procs such as maiming and bursts which are more favorable towards the khopesh

Lonewolfe
03-28-2009, 10:32 AM
Ya TWF Kopesh. That takes up 2 feats. 1 to use Kopesh without a -4 to hit. Another to use 2 of them for no penalty.

I don't use Kopeshs cause I think they are overated. If I want to crit more often I take a Kukri, Scimitar, Rapier, or Falchion with the improve crit feat

Improve Crit Slashing
Scimitar 15-20 x2
Kukri 15-20 x2

I'll crit 10% more times then with the Kopesh. I did one of those charts Kopesh vs Scimitar, and the Scimitar out damaged the Kopesh. I need to find that chart I did.

Darn it. I messed up the charts

While I won't bash on your like many have/will, I will say that Khopesh is the best one handed dmg weapon. It really is just that simple. Dwarven Axes are very close, and rapiers can be good, too with the right set up. I personally like DA's just because dwarves get much love with inherent characteristics and enh's.....and they don't have to use a feat to use a very close 2nd dps weapon. That is just my preference, but I can argue that a very close 2nd is mitigated by the feat saved. Unless your a fighter and have extra feats to use. Many "perfect" builders will probably argue this point, but I don't think you are gimped by not taking oversized. You won't do as much dmg, but you won't be worthless. Mind you, you using a scimitar and a kukri vs using dual khopesh/DA is going to be a fairly significant dmg difference. It may make sense if you are using those 2 feats on something really good, but just know dmg will suffer. I'd suggest you atleast carry one of the big 2 in your main hand.

Show_me_the_Platinum
03-28-2009, 01:45 PM
Ok this was a discussion of Oversized TWF over TWF, how did it become Scimitar vs Kopesh? Even I got off topic

gfunk
03-28-2009, 02:02 PM
there are many practical reasons to use oversize two weapon fighting:

If you are a fighter then you get fighter enhancements for a specific weapon only.. so if you are a heavy pick user you would suffer -2 to damage (plus -1 in lesser based damage) by using a light pick in your offhand.

Also, part if it is about the ability to switch weapons around. i.e. if you don't use oversize two weapon fighting you are commiting yourself to have a full set of 2 different weapons, but you will be limited in how you combine them in your main and off hand.

Little weapons look stupid too. My WF fighter has a weighted (+8 )warhammer that he uses in his main hand and a wounding heavy pick of puncturing in his off hand. I have a weighted (+10) light mace, but I don't use it because it looks silly for a giant WF to wield one (plus with weighted+8 and all the wf and fighter enhancements you stun pretty much all the time anyways).

Show_me_the_Platinum
03-28-2009, 02:05 PM
Ok I'll buy fighters taking it. What about Rangers, Rouges, Bards, Wizards, Sorcerers, and Barbarians taking it?

krud
03-28-2009, 02:07 PM
ok then, khopesh or Lsword vs handaxe, kukri (w/IC slash). seems pretty straightforward - go otwf.

khopesh 15x4.5 + 4x3x4.5 = 121.5
lsword 15x4.5 + 4x2x4.5 = 103.5
handaxe 17x3.5 + 2x3x3.5 = 80.5
kukri 13x2.5 + 6x2x2.5 = 62.5

now for piercing. The dps numbers aren't as compelling - a shortsword is a good substitute.
rapier 13x3.5 + 6x2x3.5 = 87.5
ssword 15x3.5 + 4x2x3.5 = 80.5
Hpick 17x3.5 + 2x4x3.5 = 87.5
Lpick 17x2.5 + 2x4x2.5 = 62.5

Junts
03-28-2009, 02:08 PM
Ok this was a discussion of Oversized TWF over TWF, how did it become Scimitar vs Kopesh? Even I got off topic

You were trying to argue light weapons were a viable substitute; they aren't, and khopesh's advantage rises as levels and +to damage (multiplied extra by thbigger crit ) rise.

otwf or not is a valid discussion: many dps builds hit so well they dont need the otwf feat to be fine with 2 khopeshes. however, otwf is the only useful feat on the list for tempest3 requirements, so many ranger builds are working it in now beause they want the enhancement.

very few barb/dps pally builds are taking otwf, because they can get by without it and are feat starved

its rangers (for temp 3) and fighters (who have so many feats they can't get rid of them) that are taking otwf. some str-based rogues or melee cle/sor/bard builds do, becuase they are working with less than full base attack and need the extra to-hit help. however, most of those are so feat-starved that they also do not work in the feat and use other means (destruction, sundering ooze, tharnes goggles, flanking, divine power clickies, etc) to make up the difference.

Samadhi
03-28-2009, 02:09 PM
Ok I'll buy fighters taking it. What about Rangers, Rouges, Bards, Wizards, Sorcerers, and Barbarians taking it?

How many times do they need to say that it does more damage? That is the answer - btw.

Show_me_the_Platinum
03-28-2009, 02:11 PM
How many times do they need to say that it does more damage? That is the answer - btw.

When they admit that a Scimy and Kukri of wounding and puncturing outdoes any Kopesh and saves you feats

Samadhi
03-28-2009, 02:13 PM
When they admit that a Scimy and Kukri of wounding and puncturing outdoes any Kopesh and saves you feats

Soo... many... things... wrong... with... this... where.... to... start...

1) Damage is rarely relevant when you are wounding (unless you are a dex build struggling to bypass DR)
2) W/P can only occur on a piercing weapon...
3) DPS is relevant primarily against mobs that can't be hit with stat damagers......
4) Khopesh is more DPS and therefore worth a feat, same with OTWF

I am beginning to see why there is so much anger directed your way. Honest question: Are you relatively young or being purposefully obtuse to start "fun little forum battles hooray!!"
My suggestion if these really are honest questions, is to listen to the responses - not to imply that you will continue to argue with proven facts until "they admit" something patently false.

Korvek
03-28-2009, 02:14 PM
When they admit that a Scimy and Kukri of wounding and puncturing outdoes any Kopesh and saves you feats

Scimitars and Kukris can't have Puncturing.

Also, they deal less damage than a Wounding Khopesh would.

Show_me_the_Platinum
03-28-2009, 02:15 PM
Soo... many... things... wrong... with... this... where.... to... start...

Ok if there are so many things wrong with it then list them.


Scimitars and Kukris can't have Puncturing.

Yes they can I have a Dwarven Axe with those things

Korvek
03-28-2009, 02:17 PM
Yes they can I have a Dwarven Axe with those things

No. They cannot.

Edit: Perhaps you're confusing Puncturing with Enfeebling.

Show_me_the_Platinum
03-28-2009, 02:19 PM
No. They cannot.

Just like Blud weapons couldn't have vorpal, but when vorpal first came out there were vorpal light hammers, maces, warhammers, and other blud weapons. Remember the loot generator sometimes makes mistakes. I'll get a screen shot of it plus my Silver light hammer of transmuting

Osharan_Tregarth
03-28-2009, 02:22 PM
Ok if there are so many things wrong with it then list them.



Yes they can I have a Dwarven Axe with those things

No. You. Don't.


If you think you do, log into game and check. We'll wait.

bobbryan2
03-28-2009, 02:22 PM
So... you're asking the question... why would people want to spend a feat to do more damage?

Seriously?

krud
03-28-2009, 02:25 PM
Wounding on a dwarven axe, yes. Puncturing, no.

btw look at the damage numbers for the light slashing weapons vs their oversized counterparts. it's no contest. maybe you might not need the to-hit boost, but damage-wise it pays off to wield the big weapon in your offhand. (edit - Add in +20 from strength, weapon+, and buffs)

khopesh 15x4.5 + 4x3x4.5 = 121.5 (661.5)
lsword 15x4.5 + 4x2x4.5 = 103.5 (563.5)
DwAxe 17x5.5 + 2x3x5.5 = 126.5 (586.5)
handaxe 17x3.5 + 2x3x3.5 = 80.5 (540.5)
kukri 13x2.5 + 6x2x2.5 = 62.5 (562.5)

with piercing weapons it isn't as great.
rapier 13x3.5 + 6x2x3.5 = 87.5 (587.5)
ssword 15x3.5 + 4x2x3.5 = 80.5 (540.5)
Hpick 17x3.5 + 2x4x3.5 = 87.5 (587.5)
Lpick 17x2.5 + 2x4x2.5 = 62.5 (562.5)

start considering strength and other damage modifiers and khopesh still wins.

bobbryan2
03-28-2009, 02:25 PM
When they admit that a Scimy and Kukri of wounding and puncturing outdoes any Kopesh and saves you feats

*facepalm*

hydra_ex
03-28-2009, 02:31 PM
Soo... many... things... wrong... with... this... where.... to... start...

1) Damage is rarely relevant when you are wounding (unless you are a dex build struggling to bypass DR)
2) W/P can only occur on a piercing weapon...
3) DPS is relevant primarily against mobs that can't be hit with stat damagers......
4) Khopesh is more DPS and therefore worth a feat, same with OTWF

I am beginning to see why there is so much anger directed your way. Honest question: Are you relatively young or being purposefully obtuse to start "fun little forum battles hooray!!"
My suggestion if these really are honest questions, is to listen to the responses - not to imply that you will continue to argue with proven facts until "they admit" something patently false.

If you werent an idiot, plat, you would look at the list that he posted below. God, you're funny!

Btw, Samadhi, I think I should try to purposely induce a flame war, just for fun :)

Osharan_Tregarth
03-28-2009, 02:35 PM
Allright, heading back towards the (so to speak) original topic.


Ok I'll buy fighters taking it. What about Rangers, Rouges, Bards, Wizards, Sorcerers, and Barbarians taking it?

Rogues, Bards, Wizards, Sorc's... If they are a melee dps build might actually need to take oversized twf'ing, due to their lower bab's.

Capped Rangers, Barbarians, and Fighters don't need the extra help hitting things, at this point in the game.

boldarblood
03-28-2009, 02:36 PM
Ok if there are so many things wrong with it then list them.



Yes they can I have a Dwarven Axe with those things

You do not have a puncturing dwarf axe, I call lies.

My melee do not need oversized 2WF to supplement hitting, so there is no reason not to be dual wielding full sized weapons like 2 khopesh. I like to min/max my melee for the most dps possible, every point you add add's up.

boldarblood
03-28-2009, 02:38 PM
When they admit that a Scimy and Kukri of wounding and puncturing outdoes any Kopesh and saves you feats

oh noes this will never end, as those combinations are impossible. :(

hydra_ex
03-28-2009, 02:43 PM
Lets even go back to your kukri and scimmy outdoes blah blah blah argument.

Last time I check, rapiers, and scimmies, required OTWF to be wielded in your offhanf w/o penalty. Also, red named creature cannot be WoPed, not matter how much you want them to. You would want more damage against bosses, and OTWF not only does that for you, but it also allows you to get better crits!* WOW!

*since you will argue, this is true because rapiers** and scimitars, the weapons with the best crit ranges, are not light weapons.

**although it can be finessed, trust me, the rapier is not a light weapon.

krud
03-28-2009, 02:49 PM
Let's go back to the original premise: there are light weapons that are just as good (or almost as good) as the heavy counterparts, that wielding 2 heavy weapons, or taking the feat OTWF is not necessary.

Run the numbers and you will see the OP has got it wrong (at least when it comes to slashing weapons and khopeshes).

Show_me_the_Platinum
03-28-2009, 03:19 PM
Lets even go back to your kukri and scimmy outdoes blah blah blah argument.

Last time I check, rapiers, and scimmies, required OTWF to be wielded in your offhanf w/o penalty. Also, red named creature cannot be WoPed, not matter how much you want them to. You would want more damage against bosses, and OTWF not only does that for you, but it also allows you to get better crits!* WOW!

*since you will argue, this is true because rapiers** and scimitars, the weapons with the best crit ranges, are not light weapons.

**although it can be finessed, trust me, the rapier is not a light weapon.

Read much? I never said ANYTHING about wielding a rapier in my off hand. I don't even know where you got that from. The only weapon I talked about being in your off hand was a Kukri. OTWF doesn't effect crit modifiers or threat range WOW!

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/8725/lighthammer.jpg

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/6207/dwarvenaxe.jpg

Next person that says "Kopeshes are better then Scimy I'm going to kill this thread."

Nick_RC
03-28-2009, 03:21 PM
Why oh why did i even bother reading what this guy wrote. Train wreck after train wreck.

On a side note like to hear from some other 2wf (mainly barbs) that have a tough choice between Oversize and other useful feats. Next mod I can choose one of either toughness or O2WF. ATM I basically raid and 99% of the time have a bard and on elite settings I dont have to take off PA. However Im using O2wf atm. Both PA lines maxed.

Will be interesting to see what the mobs ac will be next level and see if the too hit needed will warrant taking oversize. At the moment Im leaning towards toughness as those extra hp will be handy 'fat' for the vicious effects. What are others in the same boat thinking?

And before people start saying if u miss on a barb u need to reroll - dont bother.

Nick_RC
03-28-2009, 03:23 PM
Read much? I never said ANYTHING about wielding a rapier in my off hand. I don't even know where you got that from. The only weapon I talked about being in your off hand was a Kukri. OTWF doesn't effect crit modifiers or threat range WOW!

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/8725/lighthammer.jpg

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/6207/dwarvenaxe.jpg

Next person that says "Kopeshes are better then Scimy I'm going to kill this thread."

Platinum if ur on argo i think its a good idea if I log on and u show that too me in person for verification. Or somebody on any server cos ur gonna get alot of BS calls.

Edit : And P.S theres nothing special about that transmuter. Its a prefix not a suffix like you said.

Osharan_Tregarth
03-28-2009, 03:30 PM
Next person that says "Kopeshes are better then Scimy I'm going to kill this thread."

Khopesh are better than scimitars. :D

Trillea
03-28-2009, 03:31 PM
Khopeshes are better than Scimy.

:p

Nick_RC
03-28-2009, 03:32 PM
Got some pros from ghalanda checking it out ;)

boldarblood
03-28-2009, 03:34 PM
Platinum if ur on argo i think its a good idea if I log on and u show that too me in person for verification. Or somebody on any server cos ur gonna get alot of BS calls.

level 14 weapon would be more than +8 wouldn't it?

Nick_RC
03-28-2009, 03:40 PM
level 14 weapon would be more than +8 wouldn't it?

In all honesty im not sure.

I knw Caster items are generall;y higher + values.

Just logged on and i got a +5 Transmuting scimy of shattermantle min lvl 14 thats +10, but also a vorp scimy of enfeebling thats min lvl 14 thats a +8...

Kiranselie
03-28-2009, 03:46 PM
Platinum if ur on argo i think its a good idea if I log on and u show that too me in person for verification. Or somebody on any server cos ur gonna get alot of BS calls.

Seconded, and Khopeshes are better than Scimitars, now go away.

Kiranselie
03-28-2009, 03:49 PM
A +1 wounding of puncturing anything is a +6, so a +3 would be a +8, altho i still call bs. Those vorpal blunts are from beta, and they were fixed (read changed). A min level 14 weapon wouldnt have dropped in beta, so I call BS.

Mhykke
03-28-2009, 03:52 PM
Ok, you guys have ShowMeThePlatinum on the ropes, now:

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii143/mykeuva/mk4.gif

Thriand
03-28-2009, 03:54 PM
At first I thought plat was just an uninformed player who liked to talk about things he knew nothing about on the forums. Now I realize he just likes inciting flame wars for his own entertainment..... honestly no one can be THAT dense.

vtecfiend99
03-28-2009, 04:22 PM
:eek: I call fake but, ****. If that is real... is anyone pi$$ed that such a ***** has a buggy weapon like that?

bobbryan2
03-28-2009, 05:14 PM
In all honesty im not sure.

I knw Caster items are generall;y higher + values.

Just logged on and i got a +5 Transmuting scimy of shattermantle min lvl 14 thats +10, but also a vorp scimy of enfeebling thats min lvl 14 thats a +8...

Transmuting and Greater Banes have increased + numbers in addition to caster items. That's why the transmuting is higher.

vtecfiend99
03-28-2009, 05:33 PM
Vast & Mysterious = Puncturing on slashers? lol

Andoir
03-28-2009, 05:36 PM
I seldom post, therefore I have zero infraction points. Looks like I'm going to get them all at once.

Platinum:
You are a F*ckin Idiot.

Have a nice day.

vtecfiend99
03-28-2009, 05:37 PM
I seldom post, therefore I have zero infraction points. Looks like I'm going to get them all at once.

Platinum:
You are a F*ckin Idiot.

Have a nice day.

Nicely done sir.

Borror0
03-28-2009, 05:47 PM
level 14 weapon would be more than +8 wouldn't it?
ML = (bpm * 2) - 2

bpm (base price modifier) is the number you seek so a ML 14 weapon is +8.

Show_me_the_Platinum
03-28-2009, 05:54 PM
I seldom post, therefore I have zero infraction points. Looks like I'm going to get them all at once.

Platinum:
You are a F*ckin Idiot.

Have a nice day.

Looks like someone was told to post something on the forums.

I've been holding off on posting till I can find that on the servers. The problem is I can't. I found the screen shot in my folder while I was looking for the light hammer. I have characters on all the servers, but I can't find that one. If you want you can log on Argo and I can show you my +4 Ady Throwing Dagger Min level 1

Show_me_the_Platinum
03-28-2009, 05:55 PM
A +1 wounding of puncturing anything is a +6, so a +3 would be a +8, altho i still call bs. Those vorpal blunts are from beta, and they were fixed (read changed). A min level 14 weapon wouldnt have dropped in beta, so I call BS.

But they are in the game are they not?

Edit: Blunt vorpals

vtecfiend99
03-28-2009, 05:57 PM
Looks like someone was told to post something on the forums.

I've been holding off on posting till I can find that on the servers. The problem is I can't. I found the screen shot in my folder while I was looking for the light hammer. I have characters on all the servers, but I can't find that one. If you want you can log on Argo and I can show you my +4 Ady Throwing Dagger Min level 1

BEWL SHEET.


No min level plus 4 throwers are common knowledge and pretty common for people to have.


W/P slasher, not so much.

Nick_RC
03-28-2009, 06:38 PM
Looks like someone was told to post something on the forums.

I've been holding off on posting till I can find that on the servers. The problem is I can't. I found the screen shot in my folder while I was looking for the light hammer. I have characters on all the servers, but I can't find that one. If you want you can log on Argo and I can show you my +4 Ady Throwing Dagger Min level 1

Sry dude aint gonna cut it - wrong lvld stuff is pretty common. W/p slasher not so much. And i have toons on all servers so when u find it - and im sure you cant lose a w/p slasher - let me knw.

vtecfiend99
03-28-2009, 06:41 PM
and im sure you cant lose a w/p slasher - let me knw.

But you KNOW that's what he's gonna say dude lol.

Nick_RC
03-28-2009, 06:41 PM
;)
But you KNOW that's what he's gonna say dude lol.

Aspenor
03-28-2009, 06:43 PM
But they are in the game are they not?

Edit: Blunt vorpals

No, they are not.

Kiranselie
03-28-2009, 06:43 PM
But they are in the game are they not?

Edit: Blunt vorpals

No, they are not, I had a guildie that had a vorpal heavy mace, logged in one day and it had been changed to a mace of smiting. This was still back in beta days.

boldarblood
03-28-2009, 06:44 PM
Looks like someone was told to post something on the forums.

I've been holding off on posting till I can find that on the servers. The problem is I can't. I found the screen shot in my folder while I was looking for the light hammer. I have characters on all the servers, but I can't find that one. If you want you can log on Argo and I can show you my +4 Ady Throwing Dagger Min level 1

no minimum level throwing weapons are pretty common, I have had at one time 9-10 of them (lost all but 1 or 2 over time). There was a bug for them for a long time and it was fixed in a patch.

wop slashing, I do not believe you until you show someone else. To easy to photoshop.

Show_me_the_Platinum
03-28-2009, 06:59 PM
I called a friend of mine to see if he remembers who had the axe and I heard something that is making me keep this character unknown. He got a wounding puncturing rapier, he couldn't log on that character for 2 days because people would constantly send him tells to sell that weapon to them. So sorry I wont be able to show you in the trade window (since this did happen on argo) I don't want to post it on the auction either in case someone buys it.

boldarblood
03-28-2009, 07:04 PM
I called a friend of mine to see if he remembers who had the axe and I heard something that is making me keep this character unknown. He got a wounding puncturing rapier, he couldn't log on that character for 2 days because people would constantly send him tells to sell that weapon to them. So sorry I wont be able to show you in the trade window (since this did happen on argo) I don't want to post it on the auction either in case someone buys it.

Because it does not exist. Was a photoshop job.

Aspenor
03-28-2009, 07:10 PM
I called a friend of mine to see if he remembers who had the axe and I heard something that is making me keep this character unknown. He got a wounding puncturing rapier, he couldn't log on that character for 2 days because people would constantly send him tells to sell that weapon to them. So sorry I wont be able to show you in the trade window (since this did happen on argo) I don't want to post it on the auction either in case someone buys it.

I have a wp rapier....nobody sends me any tells about it. Shenanigans, I say.

Nick_RC
03-28-2009, 07:10 PM
I called a friend of mine to see if he remembers who had the axe and I heard something that is making me keep this character unknown. He got a wounding puncturing rapier, he couldn't log on that character for 2 days because people would constantly send him tells to sell that weapon to them. So sorry I wont be able to show you in the trade window (since this did happen on argo) I don't want to post it on the auction either in case someone buys it.

Bullsh*t.

Show_me_the_Platinum
03-28-2009, 07:11 PM
I showed you the screen shot. What you think I hacked the game to get one?

Aspenor
03-28-2009, 07:13 PM
I showed you the screen shot. What you think I hacked the game to get one?

Photoshop

Mhykke
03-28-2009, 07:14 PM
I showed you the screen shot. What you think I hacked the game to get one?

Someone once claimed they had a superior potency 7 weapon. They posted a screenshot. Turns out they forged the screenshot.

Just sayin....

Show_me_the_Platinum
03-28-2009, 07:17 PM
People also claim there are +5 tomes out... just saying. I'm not saying these things are common (such as no ML throwing weapons)

This might have been a fluke like the Silver transmuting. I thought things like this has happened before because I'm not normally someone who gets things like that

Mhykke
03-28-2009, 07:18 PM
People also claim there are +5 tomes out... just saying. I'm not saying these things are common (such as no ML throwing weapons)

This might have been a fluke like the Silver transmuting. I thought things like this has happened before because I'm not normally someone who gets things like that

Curious how every time someone claims to have one of these strange items, and are asked to show it to someone in game, they come up with some reason why they can't or won't.

Photoshop's fun.

bobbryan2
03-28-2009, 07:19 PM
People also claim there are +5 tomes out... just saying. I'm not saying these things are common (such as no ML throwing weapons)

This might have been a fluke like the Silver transmuting. I thought things like this has happened before because I'm not normally someone who gets things like that

How the hell is silver transmuting a bug?

vtecfiend99
03-28-2009, 07:19 PM
I called a friend of mine to see if he remembers who had the axe and I heard something that is making me keep this character unknown. He got a wounding puncturing rapier, he couldn't log on that character for 2 days because people would constantly send him tells to sell that weapon to them. So sorry I wont be able to show you in the trade window (since this did happen on argo) I don't want to post it on the auction either in case someone buys it.

rofl... lol dude give me a break.

Borror0
03-28-2009, 07:20 PM
I have a wp rapier....nobody sends me any tells about it. Shenanigans, I say.
That's only because nobody wants to hear about you.

rezo
03-28-2009, 07:21 PM
I find it funny that everyone is saying that Khopeshes are better than Scimitars in DPS. If you look at the numbers sure but, that means you are not taking in count the long run of a fight. I doubt that you can kill a (CR: 20) mob in one hit and if you do the weapon your using is a vorpal and you got a 1 out of 20 chance to vorpal it. It will take many hit to drop it. Its hard to say what will do more dps, if you roll all 17-20's all the time, OK khopeshes win but, we all know that do not happen so with higher crit. range I would say scimitars because of the crit. range.

Aspenor
03-28-2009, 07:22 PM
Curious how every time someone claims to have one of these strange items, and are asked to show it to someone in game, they come up with some reason why they can't or won't.

Photoshop's fun.

I'm online RIGHT NOW, free, and ready to view this mysterious axe. I know it's not gonna happen...it never does.

Kiranselie
03-28-2009, 07:22 PM
I called a friend of mine to see if he remembers who had the axe and I heard something that is making me keep this character unknown. He got a wounding puncturing rapier, he couldn't log on that character for 2 days because people would constantly send him tells to sell that weapon to them. So sorry I wont be able to show you in the trade window (since this did happen on argo) I don't want to post it on the auction either in case someone buys it.

You are so full of sh*t man, I've got a w/p rapier on the trade forums right now, no one sends me tells everytime i log in.


You are a liar, flat out, a bullsh*t con artist, and not very good at it.


GTFO of these forums, go away, never come back, you lost what little credibility you had w/ this thread. If you ever had anyone to defend you, they wont now.

People like you make me sick. I cant stand liars, especially when theres no reason to lie in the first place.

Mhykke
03-28-2009, 07:23 PM
I find it funny that everyone is saying that Khopeshes are better than Scimitars in DPS. If you look at the numbers sure but, that means you are not taking in count the long run of a fight. I doubt that you can kill a (CR: 20) mob in one hit and if you do the weapon your using is a vorpal and you got a 1 out of 20 chance to vorpal it. It will take many hit to drop it. Its hard to say what will do more dps, if you roll all 17-20's all the time, OK khopeshes win but, we all know that do not happen so with higher crit. range I would say scimitars because of the crit. range.

And if I rolled a 20 every time with my light hammer it'd be the biggest DPS weapon. :rolleyes:

bobbryan2
03-28-2009, 07:23 PM
I find it funny that everyone is saying that Khopeshes are better than Scimitars in DPS. If you look at the numbers sure but, that means you are not taking in count the long run of a fight. I doubt that you can kill a (CR: 20) mob in one hit and if you do the weapon your using is a vorpal and you got a 1 out of 20 chance to vorpal it. It will take many hit to drop it. Its hard to say what will do more dps, if you roll all 17-20's all the time, OK khopeshes win but, we all know that do not happen so with higher crit. range I would say scimitars because of the crit. range.

LoL

Kiranselie
03-28-2009, 07:24 PM
I find it funny that everyone is saying that Khopeshes are better than Scimitars in DPS. If you look at the numbers sure but, that means you are not taking in count the long run of a fight. I doubt that you can kill a (CR: 20) mob in one hit and if you do the weapon your using is a vorpal and you got a 1 out of 20 chance to vorpal it. It will take many hit to drop it. Its hard to say what will do more dps, if you roll all 17-20's all the time, OK khopeshes win but, we all know that do not happen so with higher crit. range I would say scimitars because of the crit. range.

Its funny how you always seem to pop up when your boy show me is getting his ass handed to him on these boards.

I think youre the same person.

rezo
03-28-2009, 07:24 PM
And if I rolled a 20 every time with my light hammer it'd be the biggest DPS weapon. :rolleyes:

Your right, so here have a cookie and a gold star.

bobbryan2
03-28-2009, 07:27 PM
And if I rolled a 20 every time with my light hammer it'd be the biggest DPS weapon. :rolleyes:

Unless I rolled all 20s on my handaxe.

Anastasios
03-28-2009, 07:31 PM
I would say everyone is giving you ample enough time and money involved into showing the weapon. Put up or shut it, otherwise apologize for even posting a pic of said garbage on these forums and telling everyone you are a *****.

You're dealing with players from Alpha, Beta, Head Start who have been here since day one and know what to believe and what not to believe. I myself think all you're doing is just digging that hole deeper and deeper...

Show me more, the masses await, don't be surprised if they just so happened to grab their pitchforks on this one....

Should the weapon exist, well then guess what, you have free reign over alot of the people calling you out...how much more can you ask for in this case...Then again I got a special batch of ***** cookies all up in my oven for the tea party we're going to have at your expense...Trel's backyard, everyone's invited, and guess who the guest of honor is?

Switch chairs, move around around...

rezo
03-28-2009, 07:37 PM
Its funny how you always seem to pop up when your boy show me is getting his ass handed to him on these boards.

I think youre the same person.


i'm real but, I think he's a wall!!! But, I could be wrong????

Show_me_the_Platinum
03-28-2009, 07:41 PM
Its funny how you always seem to pop up when your boy show me is getting his ass handed to him on these boards.

I think youre the same person.

Really like everyone that always posts against me seems to be on the first page of anything I post? Even if it is nothing controversial like a new build?


I would say everyone is giving you ample enough time and money involved into showing the weapon. Put up or shut it, otherwise apologize for even posting a pic of said garbage on these forums and telling everyone you are a *****.

You're dealing with players from Alpha, Beta, Head Start who have been here since day one and know what to believe and what not to believe. I myself think all you're doing is just digging that hole deeper and deeper...

Show me more, the masses await, don't be surprised if they just so happened to grab their pitchforks on this one....

Should the weapon exist, well then guess what, you have free reign over alot of the people calling you out...how much more can you ask for in this case...Then again I got a special batch of ***** cookies all up in my oven for the tea party we're going to have at your expense...Trel's backyard, everyone's invited, and guess who the guest of honor is?

Switch chairs, move around around...

Just because I refused to show it in game doesn't mean it isn't real. If I photoshoped it (which I don't even have that program) then you can't believe any screen shots posted because they could all be faked. Just because I have something that all of you want to see doesn't mean I'm going to show it to you. I have something that is bigger then yours doesn't mean I'm going to post pictures of it.


How the h e double hockey stick is silver transmuting a bug?

Ummm... Silver bypasses DR... Transmuting bypasses DR... it might not be a bug, but it is redundant.


i'm real but, I think he's a wall!!! But, I could be wrong????


No you're the wall I'm real

bobbryan2
03-28-2009, 07:43 PM
Ummm... Silver bypasses DR... Transmuting bypasses DR... it might not be a bug, but it is redundant.


Just like Holy flametouched iron is redundant. Why would you even post a screenshot of that like it proved something?

Mhykke
03-28-2009, 07:50 PM
Just because I refused to show it in game doesn't mean it isn't real. If I photoshoped it (which I don't even have that program) then you can't believe any screen shots posted because they could all be faked. Just because I have something that all of you want to see doesn't mean I'm going to show it to you. I have something that is bigger then yours doesn't mean I'm going to post pictures of it.


I have a vorpal machine gun of purple elephant bane on my ranger.

Just b/c I'm not going to show it to anyone doesn't mean it's not real.

Oh, and if you understood the game at all, you'd realize that a w/p axe isn't better than most w/p weapons out there.

Kiranselie
03-28-2009, 07:52 PM
Now GTFO and stop polluting the forums with your ****ing garbage you waste of ****ing air.



Man I couldnt have put it better myself.


Oh and OP, I wasnt on the first page of this thread, I saw it and the Bullsh*t you were spouting and had to chime in tho.

Show_me_the_Platinum
03-28-2009, 07:54 PM
Just like Holy flametouched iron is redundant. Why would you even post a screenshot of that like it proved something?

Ummm... it is. Flametouched makes it bypass good DR. Holy also allows a weapon to bypass good DR... tell me that's not redundant? Cause it showed the weapon is in the game. Like the Poison immune item RR warforged. Or the +3 Dwarven axe of Greater Dwarven Bane RR Drow/Elf


I have a vorpal machine gun of purple elephant bane on my ranger.

Just b/c I'm not going to show it to anyone doesn't mean it's not real.

Oh, and if you understood the game at all, you'd realize that a w/p axe isn't better than most w/p weapons out there.

I want to see a screens shot.


Man I couldnt have put it better myself.


Oh and OP, I wasnt on the first page of this thread, I saw it and the Bullsh*t you were spouting and had to chime in tho.

true, but I knew it was only a matter of time. You can't stay away can you?


Though I am starting to see something. If you were playing DDO since Beta you don't have a right to post on the forums, cause those people have mastered the game mechanics... wait haven't those mechanics changed A LOT over the years?

Borror0
03-28-2009, 07:58 PM
Why are you wasting your time with him? He clearly won't listen to you. No matter how much sense you make.

rezo
03-28-2009, 07:58 PM
I think he doesn't have any ears???

Show_me_the_Platinum
03-28-2009, 07:59 PM
Why are you wasting your time with him? He clearly won't listen to you. No matter how much sense you make.

We are so off topic from the original it isn't even funny. Somehow we went from a TWF vs OTWF to Kopesh VS scimitar, to WP to photoshoping to "Show me the goods" to... well I don't know where this is going but the whole trip people have been telling me to get off the forums because they don't like me

bobbryan2
03-28-2009, 08:00 PM
Ummm... it is. Flametouched makes it bypass good DR. Holy also allows a weapon to bypass good DR... tell me that's not redundant? Cause it showed the weapon is in the game. Like the Poison immune item RR warforged. Or the +3 Dwarven axe of Greater Dwarven Bane RR Drow/Elf

Of course it's redundant. Being redundant is not the same thing as having this supposedly unique item that no one else has nor thinks is even possible.

Just so you know, this wasn't a thread about what ironic little items are there out there.

bobbryan2
03-28-2009, 08:02 PM
We are so off topic from the original it isn't even funny. Somehow we went from a TWF to OTWF to Kopesh VS scimitar, to WP to photoshoping to "Show me the goods" to... well I don't know where this is going but the whole trip people have been telling me to get off the forums because they don't like me

When you say we went from TWF to OTWF... are you meaning from the title of the thread to the OP? Here I was thinking you actually started the thread to talk about OTWF.

rezo
03-28-2009, 08:03 PM
Oh boo hoo, don't try acting the martyr now dude. People who played since beta have no more right to play than anyone else. The thing is, everyone that's been here for years has seen a$$ nuggets like yourself come and go. Lying about loot, ragging on aspects of the game they don't understand and so forth.

What makes you an embarassment of a human being is you loud shouting from rooftops about things that are either:

1 lies

2 horse **** complaints about thigns u dont understand

You must be a pro at it Dwooley.

boldarblood
03-28-2009, 08:04 PM
We are so off topic from the original it isn't even funny. Somehow we went from a TWF to OTWF to Kopesh VS scimitar, to WP to photoshoping to "Show me the goods" to... well I don't know where this is going but the whole trip people have been telling me to get off the forums because they don't like me

Your own fault, you posted an item that does not exist. Of course people are going to call you on it. All you have to do is show someone said item exisits. I'll be there to apologize. A screenie like you posted is to easy to photoshop. Prove it.

Gornn
03-28-2009, 08:07 PM
Ok I know this one is going to turn into a train wreck like all my other posts. But I want to hear what people think about this.

Why does everyone who is TWF want to be a oversized two weapon fighter? You're arguing over 2-4 points of base damage.

One Handed Weapon

Kopesh 1d8 19-20 x3
Battleaxe 1d8 20 x3
Warhammer 1d8 20 x3
Rapier 1d6 18-20 x2
Heavy Pick 1d6 20 x4

Light Weapons

Handaxe 1d6 20 x3
Short Sword 1d6 19-20 x2
Kukri 1d4 18-20 x2
Light Hammer 1d4 20 x2
Light Pick 1d4 20 x4

By using a light off hand weapon you free up a feat and don't reduce your attack bonus.

If the extra -2 you take from using an oversized weapon instead of a light one in your off hand causes you to miss on anything but a 1 you need to reroll.

Show_me_the_Platinum
03-28-2009, 08:09 PM
When you say we went from TWF to OTWF... are you meaning from the title of the thread to the OP? Here I was thinking you actually started the thread to talk about OTWF.

Ok Mr take typo as truth, I fixed the typo now respond to it

Anastasios
03-28-2009, 08:09 PM
Just because I refused to show it in game doesn't mean it isn't real. If I photoshoped it (which I don't even have that program) then you can't believe any screen shots posted because they could all be faked. Just because I have something that all of you want to see doesn't mean I'm going to show it to you. I have something that is bigger then yours doesn't mean I'm going to post pictures of it.


Man you already posted the picture...think about what you say before you type it...

Being in DDO since Beta has nothing to do with posting on the forums, being someone who thinks they can blatantly try to pull the wool over this population's eyes is quite the contrary...

Don't worry, someday you'll come out and try to say 'I got you all', and those ***** cookies I made will still be waiting for you, but I'm not only going to have just cookies made up, I'm going to also bake some enema brownies to go with them especially for you...Love Your Work, Legend and Famous status earned all in one thread...now that is Uber Sweet PRO...

vtecfiend99
03-28-2009, 08:10 PM
If the extra -2 you take from using an oversized weapon instead of a light one in your off hand causes you to miss on anything but a 1 you need to reroll.

Way to stay on topic! lol. and agreed.

bobbryan2
03-28-2009, 08:10 PM
Ok Mr take typo as truth, I fixed the typo now respond to it

If I was gonna respond to a typo, I'd tell you how to spell khopesh.

Show_me_the_Platinum
03-28-2009, 08:11 PM
Oh boo hoo, don't try acting the martyr now dude. People who played since beta have no more right to play than anyone else. The thing is, everyone that's been here for years has seen ***nuggets like yourself come and go. Lying about loot, ragging on aspects of the game they don't understand and so forth.

What makes you an embarassment of a human being is you loud shouting from rooftops about things that are either:

1 lies

2 horse **** complaints about thigns u dont understand

Ok first of all stop with the filty language, how you're still able to post I don't understand. Second of all this is the first time I posted anything about items that I have. Third people like you are why the community is so small and close knit, cause anyone new who has a different idea about anything isn't politely informed about things, they are told "You're an idiot and doing it wrong now do it right or leave."


If the extra -2 you take from using an oversized weapon instead of a light one in your off hand causes you to miss on anything but a 1 you need to reroll.

Dude don't you know that is off topic of what everyone is talking about now. Also I never said anything about not hitting I was talking about is the extra damage the a larger weapon deals worth the feat.

bobbryan2
03-28-2009, 08:16 PM
Dude don't you know that is off topic of what everyone is talking about now. Also I never said anything about not hitting I was talking about is the extra damage the a larger weapon deals worth the feat.

Using larger weapons without the feat has a -2 to hit penalty. It's already assumed you're going to use larger wepaons with or without the feat.

Show_me_the_Platinum
03-28-2009, 08:20 PM
Man you already posted the picture...think about what you say before you type it...

Being in DDO since Beta has nothing to do with posting on the forums, being someone who thinks they can blatantly try to pull the wool over this population's eyes is quite the contrary...

Don't worry, someday you'll come out and try to say 'I got you all', and those ***** cookies I made will still be waiting for you, but I'm not only going to have just cookies made up, I'm going to also bake some enema brownies to go with them especially for you...Love Your Work, Legend and Famous status earned all in one thread...now that is Uber Sweet PRO...

You're a little late for that. Want to see the posting mayhem go look at Shroud tatics. Plus I'm not trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes. I made a mistake on my calculations for Kopesh vs Scimitar chart (to which the OP of that thread responded "I see you're point, but I can't get over the lower damage dice on the scimitar.") which if I was correct I wouldn't have said "Well you're an idiot for not using the better weapon over the one of your choice.

What I had stated was why do all TWF HAVE to be OTWF.

I ran in a group yesterday where the ranger pulled out a dagger for his off hand. I was shocked specially after I was running earlier with a fighter with two long swords (who was getting his butt handed to him by ogres and troll and if I could would have after he pulled out his shield halfway through the second quest. The only reason he pulled out the shield was I couldn't be his nurse maid when a door closed behind him. I preferred the WF in the group over him. I spent less SP healing the WF then the fighter)

for those that don't know this is what a civil post looks like. Get out of highschool and post like a grownup. No foul language, no l33t speek, I spell checked everything so nothing was spelled wrong (you wouldn't believe how bad at spelling most of my haters are. It's not even funny) and I don't tell anyone to leave.

vtecfiend99
03-28-2009, 08:24 PM
for those that don't know this is what a civil post looks like.

Nice, you have the manners down, now work on SMART posting and you'll be all set.

HeavenlyCloud
03-28-2009, 08:24 PM
I have a vorpal machine gun of purple elephant bane on my ranger.

Just b/c I'm not going to show it to anyone doesn't mean it's not real.

Oh, and if you understood the game at all, you'd realize that a w/p axe isn't better than most w/p weapons out there.

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii143/mykeuva/Funny_Pictures_29017.jpg

vtecfiend99
03-28-2009, 08:25 PM
Man... thats a cute puppy.

Gornn
03-28-2009, 08:25 PM
Dude don't you know that is off topic of what everyone is talking about now. Also I never said anything about not hitting I was talking about is the extra damage the a larger weapon deals worth the feat.

And what I'm saying is...a real DPS/beef type shouldn't need the feat. Because the only difference is -2 to hit.

TWF with a light weapon in the off hand -2 penalty to all attacks

TWF with a one handed weapon in the off hand -4 penalty to all attacks

TWF with a one handed weapon in the off hand and OTWF feat -2 penalty to all attacks

If the difference of that -2 (the -4, instead of the -2) causes you to miss on anything but a 1, you need to reroll.

Bottom line is this:

Use the second one handed weapon in an off hand - ignore the feat.

Because that extra +2 to hit is worthless (unless you're using it to qualify for tempest III. that is the ONLY time it's useful. and even then...an argument for two weapon defence could be made)

Show_me_the_Platinum
03-28-2009, 08:28 PM
Using larger weapons without the feat has a -2 to hit penalty. It's already assumed you're going to use larger wepaons with or without the feat.

I'm not even going to dignify this with the paragraph response I posted, because I play PnP and know the rules about TWF in there and the changes that turbine made. Such as the fact if you do TWF in DDO you get 3 attacks not 2

Plus it is spelled WEAPONS not WEPAONS


And what I'm saying is...a real DPS/beef type shouldn't need the feat. Because the only difference is -2 to hit.

TWF with a light weapon in the off hand -2 penalty to all attacks

TWF with a one handed weapon in the off hand -4 penalty to all attacks

TWF with a one handed weapon in the off hand and OTWF feat -2 penalty to all attacks

If the difference of that -2 (the -4, instead of the -2) causes you to miss on anything but a 1, you need to reroll.

Bottom line is this:

Use the second one handed weapon in an off hand - ignore the feat.

Because that extra +2 to hit is worthless (unless you're using it to qualify for tempest III. that is the ONLY time it's useful. and even then...an argument for two weapon defence could be made)

Wow. I can't wait to see the munchins bash this one cause you're proving that OTWF is a worthless feat if your build isn't Gimped.

bobbryan2
03-28-2009, 08:35 PM
I'm not even going to dignify this with the paragraph response I posted, because I play PnP and know the rules about TWF in there and the changes that turbine made. Such as the fact if you do TWF in DDO you get 3 attacks not 2

Plus it is spelled WEAPONS not WEPAONS


Nope, pretty sure it's spelled wepaons. I have a screenshot.

Show_me_the_Platinum
03-28-2009, 08:37 PM
Nope, pretty sure it's spelled wepaons. I have a screenshot.

Godo one

vtecfiend99
03-28-2009, 08:37 PM
nope, Pretty Sure It's Spelled Wepaons. I Have A Screenshot.

Hahahahaa

bobbryan2
03-28-2009, 08:38 PM
for those that don't know this is what a civil post looks like. Get out of highschool and post like a grownup. No foul language, no l33t speek, I spell checked everything so nothing was spelled wrong (you wouldn't believe how bad at spelling most of my haters are. It's not even funny) and I don't tell anyone to leave.

Nothing was spelled wrong... ya know... except for khopesh

Hobgoblin
03-28-2009, 08:39 PM
ok i have also never gotten any infraction points, so here goes.

show me the platinum: your mama wears combat boots

Show_me_the_Platinum
03-28-2009, 08:42 PM
ok i have also never gotten any infraction points, so here goes.

show me the platinum: your mama wears combat boots

Ok now I call shanag... shanaegin... you know I call that on you. I know you have a sense of humor, now why can't you guys take any of my jokes?

Hobgoblin
03-28-2009, 08:43 PM
Ok now I call shanag... shanaegin... you know I call that on you. I know you have a sense of humor, now why can't you guys take any of my jokes?

sorry, was it your sister that wears the boots?

Thriand
03-28-2009, 08:57 PM
Wounding of Puncturing Dwarven Axe.... lol Thats almost as good as my Vorpal longbow of Bone breaking.

Coldest
03-28-2009, 09:13 PM
Hold on everyone. Take a step back and take a breather. I too have a Wounding Dwarven Axe of Puncturing. It drops rarely at one particular quest as an end reward. So let's just leave it at that.

krud
03-28-2009, 09:24 PM
Let's remind evryone of the original post. That the dps gain by swinging an oversized weapon in the offhand is not worth it from a damage standpoint, or feat investment.


Why does everyone who is TWF want to be a oversized two weapon fighter? You're arguing over 2-4 points of base damage.

By using a light off hand weapon you free up a feat and don't reduce your attack bonus.

You are trying to say that freeing up a feat and the attack bonus outweigh any increase in damage you get from an oversized offhand weapon. I, and others, have shown you that premise is wrong. First of all, the attack bonus really doesn't help many people. They can get by swinging an oversized weapon without the need for OTWF. The feat becomes irrelevant, and your arguement is reduced to simply comparing the dps of those light weapons you showed to the ovesized counterparts.

khopesh vs handaxe ~20% more dps
khopesh vs kukri ~15% more dps
DwAxe vs handaxe ~8% more dps
DwAxe vs kukri ~8% more dps (~12% if you consider axe enhancements)

rapier vs ssword ~8% more dps
rapier vs Ltpick ~4% more dps
HvPick vs Ltpick ~4% more dps

In all of the slashing cases it seems to pay off. 8-15% more dps is significant. For piercing weapons the dps isn't much better. However, most people also use piercing weapons for the crit effects, which further tips the balance toward the rapier.

So regardless of the OTWF feat, it pays off to wield the oversized weapon. If you need the attack bonus, and you got room for OTWF, then you should seriously consider the feat. Basically all you've shown is that if you can't afford the feat, or you have trouble hitting things, then OTWF and oversized offhand weapons make no sense. Nothing new there.

rezo
03-28-2009, 10:23 PM
well said Krud.

Show_me_the_Platinum
03-28-2009, 11:35 PM
Let's remind evryone of the original post. That the dps gain by swinging an oversized weapon in the offhand is not worth it from a damage standpoint, or feat investment.



You are trying to say that freeing up a feat and the attack bonus outweigh any increase in damage you get from an oversized offhand weapon. I, and others, have shown you that premise is wrong. First of all, the attack bonus really doesn't help many people. They can get by swinging an oversized weapon without the need for OTWF. The feat becomes irrelevant, and your arguement is reduced to simply comparing the dps of those light weapons you showed to the ovesized counterparts.

khopesh vs handaxe ~20% more dps
khopesh vs kukri ~15% more dps
DwAxe vs handaxe ~8% more dps
DwAxe vs kukri ~8% more dps (~12% if you consider axe enhancements)

rapier vs ssword ~8% more dps
rapier vs Ltpick ~4% more dps
HvPick vs Ltpick ~4% more dps

In all of the slashing cases it seems to pay off. 8-15% more dps is significant. For piercing weapons the dps isn't much better. However, most people also use piercing weapons for the crit effects, which further tips the balance toward the rapier.

So regardless of the OTWF feat, it pays off to wield the oversized weapon. If you need the attack bonus, and you got room for OTWF, then you should seriously consider the feat. Basically all you've shown is that if you can't afford the feat, or you have trouble hitting things, then OTWF and oversized offhand weapons make no sense. Nothing new there.

:O someone said it logically without insults. I'm impressed.

Lets see. Ok Oversized two weapon fighting feat is a good idea if your attack bonus is low (rouges, bards, sorc, wizard) and you can get 20% more DPS from a one handed weapon then a light weapon.

I accept this reason.

Hobgoblin
03-28-2009, 11:49 PM
first off i didnt reply to your post with insults. I just insulted you, personally. Get it right :)


second off ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer.

do you seriosly thrive on drama, hatred and resenment.

because if you do, thats ok they have pills for that.

your post was answered on the first page of the thread, dude.

as a poster from sarlona said, "you have had your say, now pike off"

Show_me_the_Platinum
03-29-2009, 12:29 AM
Actually. It's because people say DPS is king when what Harry in the shroud takes half a round less to kill then with greater outsider bane weapons?

The status quo needs to be challenged every so often otherwise when somethings can be overlooked. Such as the fact if you never killed the dragon the Storm Reavere would have never come into play. If you never killed the giant in tempest spine the whole reason to do Reaver's refuge would not have happen. If the lich in Litany of the dead was never killed the Shroud wouldn't have happened.

bobbryan2
03-29-2009, 12:48 AM
Actually. It's because people say DPS is king when what Harry in the shroud takes half a round less to kill then with greater outsider bane weapons?

The status quo needs to be challenged every so often otherwise when somethings can be overlooked. Such as the fact if you never killed the dragon the Storm Reavere would have never come into play. If you never killed the giant in tempest spine the whole reason to do Reaver's refuge would not have happen. If the lich in Litany of the dead was never killed the Shroud wouldn't have happened.

Just so you know... none of this made sense.

Osharan_Tregarth
03-29-2009, 12:48 AM
Actually. It's because people say DPS is king when what Harry in the shroud takes half a round less to kill then with greater outsider bane weapons?



I'll ignore the rest of your post since it didn't even make BAD sense....


DPS is king, because it makes the difference between killing Harry in one round.... And killing Harry in one round before the blades make it in.

At this point in the game when our biggest enemy in raids is server side lag effecting heal spells, every little bit helps.

HeavenlyCloud
03-29-2009, 01:26 AM
second off ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer.



I used to believe that there's no stupid questions... only stupid people who don't ask questions. Maybe i was wrong.

rezo
03-29-2009, 01:32 AM
Just so you know... none of this made sense.

You don't read the story behind the raids do you??? If you do you would know what he is talking about.

bobbryan2
03-29-2009, 01:34 AM
You don't read the story behind the raids do you??? If you do you would know what he is talking about.

Umm, I do.

And I realize that the raids are connected.

And knowing this still does not make that paragraph make any kind of sense. What do raid backstories have to do with challenging the status quo, and whether or not using greater banes is useful.

rezo
03-29-2009, 01:51 AM
I remember a time when "Rangers" wouldn't be in a party because they where to weak. Then they became one of the most power classes. Do you remember when S&B was the way fighters when in till THW's where the DPS. THW where in style then everyone when to TWF. It's good the take a different look some times at the way the game is played. To see if different ways would work. 2 years ago I don't think we would have seen a lot of TWF out there in the game. Now on whether or not using greater banes is useful. Before we started crafting Bane where and are useful.

Show_me_the_Platinum-
"Actually. It's because people say DPS is king when what Harry in the shroud takes half a round less to kill then with greater outsider bane weapons?"

I don't understand myself unless he's talking about how it use to take vs. now???

Aranticus
03-29-2009, 02:01 AM
:O someone said it logically without insults. I'm impressed.

Lets see. Ok Oversized two weapon fighting feat is a good idea if your attack bonus is low (rouges, bards, sorc, wizard) and you can get 20% more DPS from a one handed weapon then a light weapon.

I accept this reason.


of coz when you look at the feats, it makes no sense. but people who use khopeshes are likely to be players who tweak their toons to such and extent that they are going to use that 2 feats to squeeze the max dps out

yes weapons like rapiers, scimitars crit more often than khopesh but the khopesh crit harder than them. while you do not crit more often, you crit for higher damages. look at these numbers here

bonus 0, 20 attacks. w/o IC
scimitar = 16x3.5 + 3x2x3.5 = 77
khopesh = 17x4.5 + 2x3x4.5 = 103.5 (26.5 more damage)

bonus 10, 20 attacks. w/o IC
scimitar = 16x13.5 + 3x2x13.5 = 297
khopesh = 17x14.5 + 2x3x14.5 = 333.5 (36.5 more damage)

bonus 10, 20 attacks. w IC
scimitar = 13x13.5 + 6x2x13.5 =337.5
khopesh = 15x14.5 + 4x3x14.5 = 391.5 (54 more damage)

this is just base weapon damage, i have yet include weapon procs such as maiming and bursts which are more favorable towards the khopesh

actually a similar post was made in page 1 and without the insults too..... if you werent so riled up, you might be able to see it :rolleyes:

Aranticus
03-29-2009, 02:05 AM
Ok I'll buy fighters taking it. What about Rangers, Rouges, Bards, Wizards, Sorcerers, and Barbarians taking it?

i think many people have yet addressed this. rangers will need otwf as pre-requisite to open up tempest III


Ranger Tempest III
Prerequisites: Ranger level 18, Tempest II, and any one of: Two Weapon Blocking, Two Weapon Defense, Oversized Two Weapon Fighting, or Lightning Reflexes.

Show_me_the_Platinum
03-29-2009, 09:45 AM
actually a similar post was made in page 1 and without the insults too..... if you werent so riled up, you might be able to see it :rolleyes:

Actually I expect to get flamed on the first page so I don't read all the posts on the first page. Such as getting flamed on my post about wanting a Cha item.

krud
03-29-2009, 09:58 AM
:O someone said it logically without insults. I'm impressed.

Lets see. Ok Oversized two weapon fighting feat is a good idea if your attack bonus is low (rouges, bards, sorc, wizard) and you can get 20% more DPS from a one handed weapon then a light weapon.

I accept this reason.
I would say OTWF is a good idea if you have the feat to spare. If you can't afford the feat and have trouble hitting things, don't go oversized offhand. If the feat isn't necessary then as far as weapon choices go I'd say +10% or better dps is worth it, or if you get a better crit range (such as a radiance2 rapier)

Coldest
03-29-2009, 12:42 PM
Here it is is.

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/6918/screenshot00030.jpg

Knew I had that around here. Anyway, I took a screenshot of Plat's Dwarven Axe. Pretty rare.

Accelerando
03-29-2009, 12:45 PM
Here it is is.

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/6918/screenshot00030.jpg

Knew I had that around here. Anyway, I took a screenshot of Plat's Dwarven Axe. Pretty rare.

One of my new friends in my sig got hit with one of those in PvP, about 200 times. He said it hurt.

Show_me_the_Platinum
03-29-2009, 01:29 PM
Here it is is.

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/6918/screenshot00030.jpg

Knew I had that around here. Anyway, I took a screenshot of Plat's Dwarven Axe. Pretty rare.

Wow congratulations. You can doctor a photo. Though I can see where you did it, the ing gives you away big time. It is funny how I hear people brag on the servers about items they have in their inventory, but when asked to show it say "oh I can't it's bound." then when asked to send a screen shot go "I don't want to give my e-mail address out." then when asked to post it on the forums change the subject. To say there are no glitches like that out there is to say that there are no glitches in the game. There are bugs that put 2 Race restrictions on items. That put a 2 different ML on 2 items that have all the same abilities and stats. If you can't find these things maybe that puts into question how often and long you've played the game?

Kiranselie
03-29-2009, 01:34 PM
You should shut up now, you're digging yourself further into a hole w/ each post. You lied, photoshop'd a screenshot, and now your trying to rationalize your way out of it. You have zero credibility in all things now. Some people used to take you seriously, but thats all over now. The only thing that will save any shred of decency you might have had at one time is to show the d-axe to someone. Period end of discussion. You are now the laughing stock of argonnessen, and I'm sure other servers as well.

Trillea
03-29-2009, 01:46 PM
Because that extra +2 to hit is worthless (unless you're using it to qualify for tempest III. that is the ONLY time it's useful. and even then...an argument for two weapon defence could be made)

That's why I took TWD! :D

Accelerando
03-29-2009, 02:11 PM
Wow congratulations. You can doctor a photo. Though I can see where you did it, the ing gives you away big time. It is funny how I hear people brag on the servers about items they have in their inventory, but when asked to show it say "oh I can't it's bound." then when asked to send a screen shot go "I don't want to give my e-mail address out." then when asked to post it on the forums change the subject. To say there are no glitches like that out there is to say that there are no glitches in the game. There are bugs that put 2 Race restrictions on items. That put a 2 different ML on 2 items that have all the same abilities and stats. If you can't find these things maybe that puts into question how often and long you've played the game?

Or maybe the fact that slashering doesn't exist might be a clue? LMFAO.

Mhykke
03-29-2009, 02:21 PM
It is funny how I hear people brag on the servers about items they have in their inventory, but when asked to show it say "oh I can't it's bound."

Or they come up with something lame, like they don't want people to know the character this weapon is on b/c they'll get too many tells to sell it?

Gunga
03-29-2009, 02:27 PM
I think someone's been slapped a ***** stick.

This one gave me quite a chuckle...thanks for the heads up, Nick. And thanks for telling me where to farm for this, Cold.

Cache, fan. Rhynn is the best.

Talon_Moonshadow
03-29-2009, 02:36 PM
Because large weps do more damage.

But that doesn't mean you can't do decent damage with a light offhand wep.

And if talking non traditional DPS weps (w/p) rapiers are the best. But a rapier in your off hand will lower your to hit, unless you have oversized 2WF feat.

But y rogue does just fine with a SS in my off hand. Could be better.....but can't find the room for the feat yet.

boldarblood
03-29-2009, 02:49 PM
Wow congratulations. You can doctor a photo. Though I can see where you did it, the ing gives you away big time. It is funny how I hear people brag on the servers about items they have in their inventory, but when asked to show it say "oh I can't it's bound." then when asked to send a screen shot go "I don't want to give my e-mail address out." then when asked to post it on the forums change the subject. To say there are no glitches like that out there is to say that there are no glitches in the game. There are bugs that put 2 Race restrictions on items. That put a 2 different ML on 2 items that have all the same abilities and stats. If you can't find these things maybe that puts into question how often and long you've played the game?

Once again you have no credibility until you prove it. It is very easy for you to clear this all up, but you are incapable of it, because I don't believe it exisist.

Samadhi
03-29-2009, 03:07 PM
you Should Shut Up Now, You're Digging Yourself Further Into A Hole W/ Each Post. You Lied, Photoshop'd A Screenshot, And Now Your Trying To Rationalize Your Way Out Of It. You Have Zero Credibility In All Things Now. Some People Used To Take You Seriously, But Thats All Over Now. The Only Thing That Will Save And Shred Of Decency You Might Have Had At One Time Is To Show The D-axe To Someone. Period End Of Discussion. You Are Now The Laughing Stock Of Argonnessen, And I'm Sure Other Servers As Well.

Qft

Show_me_the_Platinum
03-29-2009, 08:47 PM
Or they come up with something lame, like they don't want people to know the character this weapon is on b/c they'll get too many tells to sell it?

obviously you have nothing of value on argo.

Though no one has responded to my comment about how everyone on the forums obviously doesn't play the game often enough to know that these things happen. Or that people that post on the forums religiously are a laughing joke on the servers as many have said "Only idiots and people with to much time post on the forums." though when told that it is the people on the forums are the ones being catered to with the new content and changes they get scared.

No one also replied to the fact that at one point no one wanted rangers in their party because it was a worthless class or that at one point sword and board was king and anyone with two weapons out was laughed at.

Everyone claims to think outside the box yet the battle wizard yells at the battle cleric "Put that sword away and pull out a wand."

Everyone claims that clerics don't use anything in the shroud, when I know 2 people that refused to do anymore shroud raids with their clerics because the cost is to high.

Everyone says I'm wrong about these things, but yet never has evidence to back these things up to support their credibility. Yet when I claim to have something and posted the evidence everyone screams fake and says I'm not credible.

Evidence still in waiting
Rizzn's Solo run end content submission.
Videos of Shroud part 4 with 2 clerics at half SP at the end of part 4 without using wands/scrolls/or SP pots
Dwarf TWF who hit for 200-400 points of damage every hit (as some have claimed on the servers).

So ya my lack of showing this item in game TOTALLY overshadows the lack of evidence from other people. I mean come on I don't want to show the weapons so OBVIOUSLY it doesn't exist even though another person told people to relax and that it does RARELY drop as a END REWARD on some quests.

Mhykke
03-29-2009, 08:53 PM
obviously you have nothing of value on argo.


So that's what you're going to go with? That I have nothing "of value" on argo?

Really?


As for the rest:

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii143/mykeuva/facepalm_implied-1.jpg

Aspenor
03-29-2009, 09:16 PM
obviously you have nothing of value on argo.

Though no one has responded to my comment about how everyone on the forums obviously doesn't play the game often enough to know that these things happen. Or that people that post on the forums religiously are a laughing joke on the servers as many have said "Only idiots and people with to much time post on the forums." though when told that it is the people on the forums are the ones being catered to with the new content and changes they get scared.

No one also replied to the fact that at one point no one wanted rangers in their party because it was a worthless class or that at one point sword and board was king and anyone with two weapons out was laughed at.

Everyone claims to think outside the box yet the battle wizard yells at the battle cleric "Put that sword away and pull out a wand."

Everyone claims that clerics don't use anything in the shroud, when I know 2 people that refused to do anymore shroud raids with their clerics because the cost is to high.

Everyone says I'm wrong about these things, but yet never has evidence to back these things up to support their credibility. Yet when I claim to have something and posted the evidence everyone screams fake and says I'm not credible.

Evidence still in waiting
Rizzn's Solo run end content submission.
Videos of Shroud part 4 with 2 clerics at half SP at the end of part 4 without using wands/scrolls/or SP pots
Dwarf TWF who hit for 200-400 points of damage every hit (as some have claimed on the servers).

So ya my lack of showing this item in game TOTALLY overshadows the lack of evidence from other people. I mean come on I don't want to show the weapons so OBVIOUSLY it doesn't exist even though another person told people to relax and that it does RARELY drop as a END REWARD on some quests.
You are arguing with the paramount players on the very same server on which you play. You want to see how it happens, figure out who we are and come see it happen. You go ahead and continue believing your delusions, and we'll continue obliterating content so easily we could have done it sleeping.

Who are you, anyway? What are your character names? What guild are you in?

Here's my info:
Azpenor, Glum, Illusionary, Aerren, Goregarr
Guild: Archmagi

Tell us who you are, and who you play with, and we'll explain why your friends struggle so badly.

Anastasios
03-29-2009, 09:20 PM
So that's what you're going to go with? That I have nothing "of value" on argo?

Really?

Anyone that has Blah riding their back probably has plenty to offer Argo...


Though no one has responded to my comment about how everyone on the forums obviously doesn't play the game often enough to know that these things happen. Or that people that post on the forums religiously are a laughing joke on the servers as many have said "Only idiots and people with to much time post on the forums." though when told that it is the people on the forums are the ones being catered to with the new content and changes they get scared.

Your fallback for those who have called you out on your actions is a very very weak argument, it has no bearing whatsoever in what you did in this thread...it actually put you on the defensive, and made you try to laugh off and shrug off the event...Seems to me you can't even justify your own actions, expecially when so many others already know the route you are trying to take to get out of your predicament.

Credibility goes a long way, most people who take advantage of the forums have a decent amount of knowledge in regards to the game...you will never see me arguing with people as to 'stats and gear' considering it all boils down to player anyways...

Considering your stance and actions, it would be safe to say that you aren't that good of a player considering you can't even rationalize your own actions here.

The fact is other players have been spoiled by some of the better players on the server because they have been in runs where they did not have to do much to help out those 'well geared and talented' individuals...then they think afterwards every run should be a cakewalk.

It doesn't work that way, and I've been through every change possible, and that, according to you, somehow makes me afraid of what Turbine decides to change in the future? Give it up, you've already ranted enough of why 'the bad people' are out to get you, when in actuality it is the 'the bad people' who are helping the forums maintain a sense of protocol when it comes down to credibility and sensibility.

Apologize for being a *****, you've already eaten my cookies and brownies. Afterwards you can get on with your bad self on these forums...until then, noone is going to take you seriously, and I can't say I blame em.

BLAKROC
03-29-2009, 09:31 PM
When they admit that a Scimy and Kukri of wounding and puncturing outdoes any Kopesh and saves you feats

and to think i almost missed another imbecilic post :D by this dude .

I think he is batting 1000 on the db scale.

Show_me_the_Platinum
03-29-2009, 09:32 PM
and yet still no one does. I called into question Rizzn's credibility a long time ago, but no one seems to care about that. No one responded to the person who said it does drop from the end reward list sometimes because they would rather admit I'm wrong then I'm right. I hear you guys time and time again talking about how "You're the top players on your servers" yet I've never heard of any of you on the servers. I've never seen your names on and of the LFMs and I ask people "Have you heard of ____." and they say who? I've never heard of them.

It isn't just me guys, open your eyes it is a majority of the players who actually play the game that think this way. They are getting annoyed with your playing habits and refusing to play that way. Maybe you guys see each other so much in the shroud is because many people have left it saying "Let the miny maxers have that one. I'm going to go have fun." I know lots of people who said "I refuse to take bards anymore, they are all battle bards who think they are god but can't hit anything, and take more DPS then they hand out."

I'm still waiting for responses to what I said. I'm not shocked that you're still avoiding those issues I brought up.

No one also replied to the fact that at one point no one wanted rangers in their party because it was a worthless class or that at one point sword and board was king and anyone with two weapons out was laughed at.

Everyone claims to think outside the box yet the battle wizard yells at the battle cleric "Put that sword away and pull out a wand."

Everyone claims that clerics don't use anything in the shroud, when I know 2 people that refused to do anymore shroud raids with their clerics because the cost is to high.

Everyone says I'm wrong about these things, but yet never has evidence to back these things up to support their credibility. Yet when I claim to have something and posted the evidence everyone screams fake and says I'm not credible.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd27/raypalus/ltmqui090302.gif

Aspenor
03-29-2009, 09:36 PM
and yet still no one does. I called into question Rizzn's credibility a long time ago, but no one seems to care about that. No one responded to the person who said it does drop from the end reward list sometimes because they would rather admit I'm wrong then I'm right. I hear you guys time and time again talking about how "You're the top players on your servers" yet I've never heard of any of you on the servers. I've never seen your names on and of the LFMs and I ask people "Have you heard of ____." and they say who? I've never heard of them.

It isn't just me guys, open your eyes it is a majority of the players who actually play the game that think this way. They are getting annoyed with your playing habits and refusing to play that way. Maybe you guys see each other so much in the shroud is because many people have left it saying "Let the miny maxers have that one. I'm going to go have fun." I know lots of people who said "I refuse to take bards anymore, they are all battle bards who think they are god but can't hit anything, and take more DPS then they hand out."

I'm still waiting for responses to what I said. I'm not shocked that you're still avoiding those issues I brought up.

No one also replied to the fact that at one point no one wanted rangers in their party because it was a worthless class or that at one point sword and board was king and anyone with two weapons out was laughed at.

Everyone claims to think outside the box yet the battle wizard yells at the battle cleric "Put that sword away and pull out a wand."

Everyone claims that clerics don't use anything in the shroud, when I know 2 people that refused to do anymore shroud raids with their clerics because the cost is to high.

Everyone says I'm wrong about these things, but yet never has evidence to back these things up to support their credibility. Yet when I claim to have something and posted the evidence everyone screams fake and says I'm not credible.

The guy that referenced the "end reward" was joking and being sarcastic. He knows as well as we do the item doesn't exist.

The reason the noobs you're talking about don't know us is because they are just that, noobs.

Show_me_the_Platinum
03-29-2009, 09:39 PM
I'm still waiting for responses to what I said. I'm not shocked that you're still avoiding those issues I brought up.

No one also replied to the fact that at one point no one wanted rangers in their party because it was a worthless class or that at one point sword and board was king and anyone with two weapons out was laughed at.

Everyone claims to think outside the box yet the battle wizard yells at the battle cleric "Put that sword away and pull out a wand."

Everyone claims that clerics don't use anything in the shroud, when I know 2 people that refused to do anymore shroud raids with their clerics because the cost is to high.

Everyone says I'm wrong about these things, but yet never has evidence to back these things up to support their credibility. Yet when I claim to have something and posted the evidence everyone screams fake and says I'm not credible.

SteeleTrueheart
03-29-2009, 09:41 PM
obviously you have nothing of value on argo.

So ya my lack of showing this item in game TOTALLY overshadows the lack of evidence from other people. I mean come on I don't want to show the weapons so OBVIOUSLY it doesn't exist even though another person told people to relax and that it does RARELY drop as a END REWARD on some quests.

Hi Show_me,

I normally do not get involved in flame threads, but since I am generally known to be a semi-nice person on these boards (for whatever an internet opinion is worth) I can offer a confidential service. I will be happy to see this item in game and take a screenshot. The characters name and any other details you wish can be kept secret at your discretion. I will then post a screenshot (cropped to show only the weapon details and no personal info) into this thread.

I offer this service as I am genuinely interested in seeing a slashing puncturing weapon.

PM me if interested.

Steele Trueheart

Mhykke
03-29-2009, 09:43 PM
and yet still no one does. I called into question Rizzn's credibility a long time ago, but no one seems to care about that. No one responded to the person who said it does drop from the end reward list sometimes because they would rather admit I'm wrong then I'm right. I hear you guys time and time again talking about how "You're the top players on your servers" yet I've never heard of any of you on the servers. I've never seen your names on and of the LFMs and I ask people "Have you heard of ____." and they say who? I've never heard of them.

Nobody cares about your questioning "rizzn's credibility" b/c people know rizzn is capable of running a simple quest by himself.

Oh, and I've never claimed anything even close to being one of the "top players on [my] server".



It isn't just me guys, open your eyes it is a majority of the players who actually play the game that think this way. They are getting annoyed with your playing habits and refusing to play that way. Maybe you guys see each other so much in the shroud is because many people have left it saying "Let the miny maxers have that one. I'm going to go have fun." I know lots of people who said "I refuse to take bards anymore, they are all battle bards who think they are god but can't hit anything, and take more DPS then they hand out."

Maybe if your groups took a bard with you in the shroud, your clerics wouldn't be spending the resources that you claim they are.


I'm still waiting for responses to what I said. I'm not shocked that you're still avoiding those issues I brought up.

That's b/c what you said is nonsensical rambling. You want to shut people up? It's a simple matter of showing people the item you claim to have.


No one also replied to the fact that at one point no one wanted rangers in their party because it was a worthless class or that at one point sword and board was king and anyone with two weapons out was laughed at.

What do these claims, even if correct, have to do with anything?


Everyone claims to think outside the box yet the battle wizard yells at the battle cleric "Put that sword away and pull out a wand."

Umm, what?


Everyone claims that clerics don't use anything in the shroud, when I know 2 people that refused to do anymore shroud raids with their clerics because the cost is to high.

Take a bard. Bring some characters that can actually do damage.


Everyone says I'm wrong about these things, but yet never has evidence to back these things up to support their credibility. Yet when I claim to have something and posted the evidence everyone screams fake and says I'm not credible.

Again? Want to prove people wrong? Show someone on your server the item. If not, then shut yer pie hole.

(Oh, and this is ignoring your argument that wounding/puncturing scimitars and kukris were better than khopeshes. Even if you have this bugged item, it doesn't absolve the absurdity of your original point).

boldarblood
03-29-2009, 09:44 PM
person who said it does drop from the end reward list

Which they posted a screenshot of said item a few lines down. It was the one you claimed to be photoshopped. Just like your weapon is.

There is still an easy way for you to make everyone eat there words. But you are incapable of doing it because it is a fake.

You post an item that does not exist. You lied. You have been called on it and are now trying to backpedal. That is why people are questioning your credability. It takes all of a few seconds to prove to everyone you are not.

FluffyCalico
03-29-2009, 09:48 PM
Actually. It's because people say DPS is king when what Harry in the shroud takes half a round less to kill then with greater outsider bane weapons?

.

Personally I like killing him in 1 round. That way you can single cleric it with 0 resources used. Worst case you get some people with poor weapons and take him early in the 2nd. The 2nd cleric can be there as OMG what happened back up.

Aranticus
03-29-2009, 10:28 PM
show, i'm not going to insult you in this reply. will try to put it as painlessly and as easy to understand for you. note the stuff in red


and yet still no one does. I called into question Rizzn's credibility a long time ago, but no one seems to care about that.

there are a couple of things here. most of what rizzn have said is factually based. most people on this thread knows their stuff. most can also, with one look of your posts, determine you are the one who is less credible. you calling rizzn out on credibility is like maldoff calling soros out on his financial exploits

No one responded to the person who said it does drop from the end reward list sometimes because they would rather admit I'm wrong then I'm right.

you can be right for that 1 moment which is why we are asking to see it in person for verification. DDO has many dubious items, which is the result of loot table c0ckups. that said in general 99.99% of w/p are on piercing weapons. it just like humans. how many humans have special powers? unheard of? no. rare? extremely. the next step is to verify it. is that particular person really special? yes? good. no? its a cheat

I hear you guys time and time again talking about how "You're the top players on your servers" yet I've never heard of any of you on the servers. I've never seen your names on and of the LFMs and I ask people "Have you heard of ____." and they say who? I've never heard of them.

a lot of good players run in a tight circle of friends. while i'm not a top player, i can actually fill my raid group up before posting an lfm simply by tapping into guild and friends. more importantly is the game time. i know most of the players who run with me around my prime time but those 12 hrs from me, i barely know 20%

It isn't just me guys, open your eyes it is a majority of the players who actually play the game that think this way. They are getting annoyed with your playing habits and refusing to play that way. Maybe you guys see each other so much in the shroud is because many people have left it saying "Let the miny maxers have that one. I'm going to go have fun." I know lots of people who said "I refuse to take bards anymore, they are all battle bards who think they are god but can't hit anything, and take more DPS then they hand out."

i do not think most people are excluding others but the general perception here is people are excluding the untruths posted. for one, i will generally accept anyone who is willing to contribute to the make up of my party as long as they are play the role they are applying for. people are not excluding a class or playstyle, they are excluding bad play and bad builds. why would i take a 12str 12 con fighter that keeps dying in the quests repeatly

I'm still waiting for responses to what I said. I'm not shocked that you're still avoiding those issues I brought up.

you have gotten alot of responses, you just chose to blindly rant on

No one also replied to the fact that at one point no one wanted rangers in their party because it was a worthless class or that at one point sword and board was king and anyone with two weapons out was laughed at.

i had a pre tempest ranger. i was not excluded from parties. the key thing is i was able to take care of myself, deal respectable damage and more importantly, i didnt drag mobs around that i cant kill, and get killed. it was a worthless class as many bad players think they are uber with a bow kiting a train of mobs. good play wins the day anytime.

Everyone claims to think outside the box yet the battle wizard yells at the battle cleric "Put that sword away and pull out a wand."

i dun expect the battle cleric to heal but i expect the battle cleric who applied for the healer role to heal. most people too

Everyone claims that clerics don't use anything in the shroud, when I know 2 people that refused to do anymore shroud raids with their clerics because the cost is to high.

i've done combine 100+ shrouds on my clerics. 50 or so runs were w/o resources, 40 were with less than 50 scrolls. 8 prolly with 1-2 pots used and 2 disastrous ones with at least 5 pots used. i manage my healing and my resources, i work it out with the other cleric so that we do not over heal. i identify the mana sponges in the party and more importantly, i quit running with noobs who refuse to play better

Everyone says I'm wrong about these things, but yet never has evidence to back these things up to support their credibility. Yet when I claim to have something and posted the evidence everyone screams fake and says I'm not credible.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd27/raypalus/ltmqui090302.gif

alot of that evidence are FACTUAL which are common knowledge and accepted. there is a difference

Accelerando
03-31-2009, 12:33 PM
Slashering trumps Puncturing on an axe anyday.
Nuff said. End of thread.

Kiranselie
03-31-2009, 01:00 PM
Evidence still in waiting
Rizzn's Solo run end content submission.


My characters are in my signature, but in case you havent bothered to look, Kiranselie, Goewyn, Nimira, Gangzta, Guild Archmagi.

Like I invited you earlier to do, You can ride in my backpack while I solo the quests that I said I can do, Hell, I'll even post lfm's everynight just for you.

I play on Argo, and I'm on every night.

This goes for everyone who reads this thread, the lfm's will be up everynight for the next week, around 10pm Eastern Standard Time, be on the lookout.

Better yet, post your character names and guild here so I know who it is that wants to watch. Its time for you to put up or shut up.

Oh, and most people call me by my name, Bo. You can call me Mr. Kirkpatrick.

Nick_RC
03-31-2009, 01:06 PM
obviously you have nothing of value on argo.



Dude you are such a meathead. Seriously. You want proof of what we do in Archmagi and what friends and I do for fun check the links in my sig. Do you even have high level toons and if somaybe we should take you on a little outting. You have my word there will be no open hostilities. My main is in my sig. Come and run with the big boys and ul see ample evidence.

You got some challenges to put out let me knw.

N

bandyman1
03-31-2009, 01:07 PM
I love this thread.

Seriously; It should be sticked to the top of the Argo forums.

Maybe change the title though.....hummm...somthing like; Show-us-the-Harbor Noob.