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adm5893
03-26-2009, 09:22 AM
I still can't solve the 4 by 4.

I start from the bottom working way up. Bottom row is row 1.

I start lighting row 1 by pressing row two.

I continue up to row 3 to light row 2.

I continue up to the last row or row 4 to light row 2.

according to all the threads...

The top row should be lit....

However it isn't...

Any help...

Phidius
03-26-2009, 09:30 AM
Can I presume that you mean that you light up a row by stepping only on the columns in row 2 that are above an unlit column in row 1?

I have never seen a combination where this technique does not work for a 4X4.

adm5893
03-26-2009, 09:36 AM
assuming bottom row is row 1.

I step on row two to light up row 1 .

Phidius
03-26-2009, 09:48 AM
Can you take a screenshot next time you are in there? It's not that I don't believe you, I just need to see it for myself :)

adm5893
03-26-2009, 09:52 AM
will do

adm5893
03-27-2009, 07:25 AM
how do i insert an image?

Draccus
03-27-2009, 07:30 AM
Are you talking about and actual Shroud puzzle or one generated by a puzzle solver? A 4x4 in the Shroud will always be solveable but that's not necessarily true of a solver. Some of the solvers people use can randomly generate an unsolveable 4x4.

The solver I use is a part of the wonderful stand-alone crafting planner (http://www.inthecore.com/ddo) and will never generate an unsolveable puzzle.

If you're talking about an actual Shroud puzzle then, well, you need some practice :)

esoitl
03-27-2009, 07:31 AM
Unless I'm not following instructions properly I've found this too.
3x3's are simple as pie and for the most part I've goofed around online with the solvers enough to become familiar with 4x4 and 5x5 puzzles so as to be able t odo them even if it is rudimentary.

I don't get the 4x4 instuctions posted here though.

Sirea
03-27-2009, 07:36 AM
how do i insert an image?


URL of picture

I know some photo hosting sites (namely Photobucket) have a line of code for BBs that you can just copy and paste.

Draccus
03-27-2009, 07:38 AM
Unless I'm not following instructions properly I've found this too.
3x3's are simple as pie and for the most part I've goofed around online with the solvers enough to become familiar with 4x4 and 5x5 puzzles so as to be able t odo them even if it is rudimentary.

I don't get the 4x4 instuctions posted here though.

The instructions here are basically the "solve up" technique. This technique (combined with the "solve down" technique for 3x3 and 5x5) is a basic lights-out solving method. Basically, you pick one row as the bottom row and then use the row above it to light it all up. You then move up one row and continue lighting the row below. On a 4x4 puzzle, it WILL be solved when you get to the top. So if X's are dark buttons and O's are lit buttons, look at this puzzle:

Row 4: XOOO
Row 3: XOOO
Row 2: XOOX
Row 1: OOXO

"Solving up" means you'd start with Row 2 and hit the third button because it's above the unlit button in Row 1. This will completely light up Row 1.

Next you'd move to Row 3 and hit all the buttons that are above unlit buttons in Row 2. You do the same for Row 4 (lighting up all of Row 3) and, miraculously, Row 4 would be lit up as well and the puzzle is complete. A 4x4 always works this way.

3x3 and 5x5 puzzles work similarly except you need to solve up, hit a special combination (I have them memorized) on the top row, and then solve down.

adm5893
03-27-2009, 08:15 AM
legend: O is on and X is off

beginning state starting from the bottom (row 1) going up (row 4)

row 4: oxxo
row 3: ooox
row 2: xoxx
row 1: xxoo

step one

row 4: oxxo
row 3: xxox
row 2: xoox
row 1: oooo

step two

row 4: xxxx
row 3: ooxo
row 2: oooo
row 1: oooo

step three

row 4: xooo
row 3: oooo
row 2: oooo
row 1: oooo

this is where i am stuck...

Cathartic
03-27-2009, 08:33 AM
This is definitely an unsolvable 4x4.

adm5893
03-27-2009, 08:39 AM
this puzzle will never be presented in the shroud?

Cathartic
03-27-2009, 08:39 AM
Correct, you'll never see it in the shroud.

adm5893
03-27-2009, 08:41 AM
because I have been practicing with the puzzle solver here:

http://perfectweb.org/ddo/solver/vale_puzzle.html

and it was a random puzzle presented and I assumed it was solvable.

Sirea
03-27-2009, 08:41 AM
So this isn't about a puzzle you actually HAD in the Shroud?

Maybe you should have stated that in the OP.

And yes that particular solver is very unreliable.

Cathartic
03-27-2009, 08:45 AM
because I have been practicing with the puzzle solver here:

http://perfectweb.org/ddo/solver/vale_puzzle.html

and it was a random puzzle presented and I assumed it was solvable.

The solver uses all possible puzzle combinations, some which are unsolvable, the shroud only has solvable 4x4's. The solver is good practice just realize that a lot aren't solveable, and click new game and try again.

adm5893
03-27-2009, 08:46 AM
Yes I should have probably stated this was NOT a shroud puzzle rather a random puzzle I was practicing on.

Thank you all for the clarification, instructions and advice.

I really thought I was going crazy and had left reality....