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Jefro
03-19-2009, 11:17 AM
Tear of Drakhan (level 7 quest) 22 int rune was still too high even for Keth'am the 12th level wizard hireling. I also tried the hireling Blast wiz 6 beforehand.

If even that high of a wizard cannot open it, what about other wizard hirelings or even player characters of that approatiate level?

Int rune for this quest is either too high, or the hireling wizards have too low int?

(Standard): You are at: r1 lx640 ly16 i2049 cInside ox-95.07 oy-37.94 oz-309.45 h243.3

DragoonPenguin
03-19-2009, 11:22 AM
22 is more or less godlike intel. $50 says the devs (if they respond to this) will say something along the lines of the hirelings being representative of more or less "average" heroes while the PCs are given more retardiculous stats because we are exceptional heroes or something. never seen an int rune in there, i assume you were getting all the pieces of the tear?

Samadhi
03-19-2009, 11:26 AM
22 is more or less godlike intel. $50 says the devs (if they respond to this) will say something along the lines of the hirelings being representative of more or less "average" heroes while the PCs are given more retardiculous stats because we are exceptional heroes or something. never seen an int rune in there, i assume you were getting all the pieces of the tear?

The average lvl 7 wizard, though, should in theory easily have 22 intel. 18 base +1 level +1 enhancement +2 item. This is far from out of reach for a typical lvl 7 IMO. I think you can get 22 intel (w/o tomes or drow) at level 4 yes?

Lithic
03-19-2009, 11:27 AM
Hirelings are not working well with runes right now, they should be fixed in the next module. Just don't expect a hireling to be able to hit any rune until then.

Demoyn
03-19-2009, 11:29 AM
22 is more or less godlike intel. $50 says the devs (if they respond to this) will say something along the lines of the hirelings being representative of more or less "average" heroes while the PCs are given more retardiculous stats because we are exceptional heroes or something.

I'll take that bet... especially since the devs have already said that the hirelings are just stolen PC templates.

Impaqt
03-19-2009, 11:32 AM
Its more likely that the hireling couldnt target the rune properly rather than he didnt have the int to hit it.

I'm fairly certain that int rune is just a 20.

Darth_Sizzle
03-19-2009, 11:32 AM
The average lvl 7 wizard, though, should in theory easily have 22 intel. 18 base +1 level +1 enhancement +2 item. This is far from out of reach for a typical lvl 7 IMO. I think you can get 22 intel (w/o tomes or drow) at level 4 yes?

lvl 1 (base 20 + Puzzle Cap)

Emili
03-19-2009, 11:35 AM
I'll take that bet... especially since the devs have already said that the hirelings are just stolen PC templates.

Yes, that they are, but that does not mean they sport the enhancements most x class players will take... nor does it mean they carry the same loot as your player carries.



lvl 1 (base 20 + Puzzle Cap)

only for drow... other races cap 18 at level 1, to reach 20 +1 from enhancement (2APS) then latter is +1 from leveling to 4 ... then as I satated I am pretty sure these npc's may not have collected thier end rewards from STK :).

branmakmuffin
03-19-2009, 11:38 AM
lvl 1 (base 20 + Puzzle Cap)
I highly doubt hirelings are twinked.

Thoon
03-19-2009, 11:39 AM
Tear of Drakhan (level 7 quest) 22 int rune was still too high even for Keth'am the 12th level wizard hireling. I also tried the hireling Blast wiz 6 beforehand.

If even that high of a wizard cannot open it, what about other wizard hirelings or even player characters of that approatiate level?

Int rune for this quest is either too high, or the hireling wizards have too low int?

(Standard): You are at: r1 lx640 ly16 i2049 cInside ox-95.07 oy-37.94 oz-309.45 h243.3

Blast needs a bit of a boost to hit a 22 intelligence, but Keth'am clears that without a problem. The problem in this case is the rune itself -- currently hirelings are having trouble using it even if they meet the ability requirement.

I have tested that switch in both the current Live version, and in my current Mod 9 build. In Mod 9 it is working as expected, though you do have to make sure to get Keth'am nice and close.

For now though, hirelings will not be able to get that rune for you.

toughguyjoe
03-19-2009, 11:43 AM
Blast needs a bit of a boost to hit a 22 intelligence, but Keth'am clears that without a problem. The problem in this case is the rune itself -- currently hirelings are having trouble using it even if they meet the ability requirement.

I have tested that switch in both the current Live version, and in my current Mod 9 build. In Mod 9 it is working as expected, though you do have to make sure to get Keth'am nice and close.

For now though, hirelings will not be able to get that rune for you.

I Do Haste Potions is the best guild ever!

Thanks Thoon. Any chance you can tell us more about your Mod 9 set up? :D

Thoon
03-19-2009, 11:50 AM
Yes, that they are, but that does not mean they sport the enhancements most x class players will take... nor does it mean they carry the same loot as your player carries.




I wouldn't be so quick with that answer if I were you. Your hireling friends are very likely to sport the enhancements most characters take. And some of them have pretty good items too.

Rekker
03-19-2009, 11:57 AM
I wouldn't be so quick with that answer if I were you. Your hireling friends are very likely to sport the enhancements most characters take. And some of them have pretty good items too.

Thats a fair response, however, if hes level 12 and still doesn't have 22 INT you guys need to rethink the hierling builds :(

Thoon
03-19-2009, 11:58 AM
Thats a fair response, however, if hes level 12 and still doesn't have 22 INT you guys need to rethink the hierling builds :(

I confirmed earlier that he does have higher than 22 intelligence.

Junts
03-19-2009, 12:01 PM
I wouldn't be so quick with that answer if I were you. Your hireling friends are very likely to sport the enhancements most characters take. And some of them have pretty good items too.

yes and no; whoever equipped the hirelings did not equip them to even a decent-player standard in some regards, though they have some excellent items and even raid loot

for example, during the testing periods i was messing with some of the melee hirelings in meridia; I bought the lv 16dwarven fighter hireling whos name I don't recall. He uses some kind of thundering greatsword, which is ok, and his damage output is .. ok. However, in the vale of twilight, he was completely useless, since he doesn't have a heavy fortification item and melee characters on ddo cannot survive without heavy fort at level 12, much less 16. the vale ogres were dropping him rather quickly with 90+ point criticals.

hirelings also lack the metamagics that are frequently necessary to be useful; the damage output of all sorc/wiz/cleric damage spells is pitifully bad because they are using effects like potency 8 and no maximize; the 16 cle hireling's blade barrier is a joke, the spell is not useful without sup potency 6 and maximize spell.

This is unfortunate because it means at higher levels the hirelings are primarily major-buff bots and heal-bots, as taking the meridia hirelings into combat around meridia (even in the explorer area) leads to their dying in under half a minute, rather universally.

Riggs
03-19-2009, 12:16 PM
Also, maybe they have some enhancements...

but most hirelings dont have any ac or hit points. Any level from 1-16 in level appropriate content - any melee hireling will run in and die in seconds. They will get hit by most monsters most of the time, and fortification or no - constant damage = fast death.

And then they stand there, right in front of whatever is hitting them, and drink potions (not shield blocking or anything which would be cool), so they dont even try to kill the monster half the time after getting hit twice....until they die. (sorry off topic from the OP....)

Rekker
03-19-2009, 12:18 PM
I confirmed earlier that he does have higher than 22 intelligence.

My fault, I mixed up Blast and Keth'am in the OP :o

Tyrande
03-19-2009, 01:27 PM
I wouldn't be so quick with that answer if I were you. Your hireling friends are very likely to sport the enhancements most characters take. And some of them have pretty good items too.

Is it possible for us to equip them and check their metamagic usage after hiring them?
Of course, the items that we equip them with will be returned to us if they leave and can be unequipped and returned to us on demand for non-bound items.

Also, hiring specific raid loot that only hirings can use? Of course these would be unbound or charged based. Perhaps these can be implemented in module X, hopefully X is closer to 9.

Solmage
03-19-2009, 02:04 PM
I wouldn't be so quick with that answer if I were you. Your hireling friends are very likely to sport the enhancements most characters take. And some of them have pretty good items too.

My favorite is the lvl 16 cleric hireling with a blue dragon scale armor suit - I always summon her to annoy my cleric friend who is looking for blue scales =)

Thoon
03-19-2009, 02:26 PM
Is it possible for us to equip them and check their metamagic usage after hiring them?
Of course, the items that we equip them with will be returned to us if they leave and can be unequipped and returned to us on demand for non-bound items.


That would be cool ... <Thoon pokes Codog>

Ustice
03-19-2009, 03:06 PM
Could keep it simple in a way similar to Diablo 2, where they just has armor, helms and a weapon set. Just make it a separate location in the inventory. Then it never leaves your possession really.

Lithic
03-19-2009, 06:25 PM
That would be cool ... <Thoon pokes Codog>

I'd settle for wizards having extend on their bar instead of one of their more usless abilities. Hell, make all of them have extend, haste, displacement, and reconstruction (at least the WF ones) and they will be as usefull as any hireling can possibly be.

Similarly clerics should have DVs, Heal, Their best mass heal that is helped by w/e potency item they carry, and raise dead (resurrection if high enough level).

Until you can give us a second hireling bar to play with, spell casters need the above to be worth hireing, otherwise they will always be passed up for other hirelings that fit the bill better (at least by those who know what's what).

Solmage
03-19-2009, 10:31 PM
I'd settle for wizards having extend on their bar instead of one of their more usless abilities. Hell, make all of them have extend, haste, displacement, and reconstruction (at least the WF ones) and they will be as usefull as any hireling can possibly be.

Similarly clerics should have DVs, Heal, Their best mass heal that is helped by w/e potency item they carry, and raise dead (resurrection if high enough level).

Until you can give us a second hireling bar to play with, spell casters need the above to be worth hireing, otherwise they will always be passed up for other hirelings that fit the bill better (at least by those who know what's what).

Actually, it depends on your own character which type of hireling is best for you. For my ranger, hands down a cleric. They're awesome, and save me tons in wands and pots. For my caster, also the cleric saves me a lot of heal scrolls, and DVs are nice too. But my intimitank rocked the world leveling up with a caster hireling set to aggressive. He'll keep the aggro while the hireling spams a lot of blasting goodness, and in a pinch can toss him a lay on hands.

My only peeve is that there is only ONE cleric that has restoration and is thus able to remove negative levels. Eh I learned to just get my silver flame necklace upgraded asap on any new character, but that did seem like an oversight.

ChadMan
03-19-2009, 10:34 PM
The average lvl 7 wizard, though, should in theory easily have 22 intel. 18 base +1 level +1 enhancement +2 item. This is far from out of reach for a typical lvl 7 IMO. I think you can get 22 intel (w/o tomes or drow) at level 4 yes?

yes 18 base +1 lvl +1 enh and then +2 puzzle cap (stk) or a +2 rr what ever race u are int item

travestjon1
03-20-2009, 05:51 AM
I'd say flavourwise it'd be nicer if hirelings had certain metamagics and just had them on all time.

I'm not saying each hireling should ALWAYS have extend on..

but some should especially those with lots of duration based spells in the USER SELECTABLE (4) actions.


Some might have maximize or empower on (namely sorcerors or evokers)

Some might have quicken on (necromancers)

Some might have heighten on (enchanters)

Some might have enlarge (conjuror) (long range acid arrows and niacs, and cloud spells)

Bogenbroom
03-20-2009, 12:08 PM
I, for one, would be against all X hirelings having ability Y. They should vary, or they get to be quite dull.

I would also disagree that all builds of a Wizard should be up to a 22 int at level 7. Some build will only start with a 16 Int and, therefore, will take longer to reach that 22.

Lastly, I would *definitely* want to avoid being able to control what a hireling does and does not equip. I am all for being able to augment your hirelings goods. I've suggested before being able to donate to your own pool of goods for hirelings. Add and delete, maybe sell, but never, ever recover those items. Then the hirelings choose what best suits them from that pool. (I'd suggest the pool works through the bank.)

My hope being that A) Player A is focused on playing Character A, and not Character A and A's hireling, because there is a precipitous drop off character flavor the more characters one controls and B) Hirelings don't become carbon copies of each other.