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Verdant_Force
03-07-2009, 12:48 PM
I have improved critical: piercing.

On mobs vulnerable to con damage I use: main hand - +3 keen rapier of puncturing; off hand - +2 wounding dagger of greater undead bane (doubles as a wounder, and undead damager)

The question is, would I do more con damage with a +4 seeker (+2) silver short sword of puncturing in my off hand than the wounder?

Like i said, i have improved crit. I do enjoy doing a point of con with every swing in my off hand, but I never crunched the numbers to see if the short sword would do more.

If anyone has experience with this, it would be greatly appreciated :)

Raithe
03-07-2009, 12:58 PM
No, the wounder will be doing more con damage, and the +2 seeker will only be affecting the main hand puncturer on about 10% of crits (.1 average con damage per swing) - less if you hit everything on a 1.

On the flip side, seeker +10 rapiers of puncturing (or shortswords, or daggers) help out a lot. If you are only hitting an enemy on an 11 or so, a seeker +10 rapier of puncturing will do more con damage than a wounding of puncturing weapon. This allows a character to use combat expertise while dual-wielding rapiers to achieve very similar results in con damage as if they were hitting on a 1.

Note you only need 1 seeker weapon for a twf combo.

If you are a fighter, you can also take the critical accuracy line of enhancements to achieve similar results.

EDIT: There is also a trinket, called the bloodstone, that adds a seeker bonus without taking a weapon slot.

Verdant_Force
03-07-2009, 01:17 PM
what about if i use a +2 shocking burst short sword of puncturing? I'll still do more con damage with puncturing rapier/wounding dagger?

If a wounder is better than a puncturer for con damage why don't i just use 2 wounders??

This stuff is confusing :confused:

Asketes
03-07-2009, 01:17 PM
I may be wrong, but I believe on vorpals need be confirmed critical hits. The rest just need an unconfirmed crit.

There was a huge thread about it a while back, if I can find it, I will post the blog

Strakeln
03-07-2009, 01:19 PM
I have improved critical: piercing.

On mobs vulnerable to con damage I use: main hand - +3 keen rapier of puncturing; off hand - +2 wounding dagger of greater undead bane (doubles as a wounder, and undead damager)

The question is, would I do more con damage with a +4 seeker (+2) silver short sword of puncturing in my off hand than the wounder?

Like i said, i have improved crit. I do enjoy doing a point of con with every swing in my off hand, but I never crunched the numbers to see if the short sword would do more.

If anyone has experience with this, it would be greatly appreciated :)A suggestion: sell your +3 keen rapier of puncturing (awesome for slash-spec'd builds, they can sometimes fetch a good price) and pick up another with a different prefix. Crippling of Puncturing is a surprisingly nice combination that is relatively easy to find.

(I only suggest this since you have IC: Pierce)

Strakeln
03-07-2009, 01:20 PM
I may be wrong, but I believe on vorpals need be confirmed critical hits. The rest just need an unconfirmed crit.

There was a huge thread about it a while back, if I can find it, I will post the blogYou are correct, the vorpal needs to be confirmed.

Not usually a problem in PvE, but a real pain in PvP against high AC builds.

Turial
03-07-2009, 01:21 PM
Well you have IC:P so you are looking at dealing ( 3.5 average con damage per crit from main hand * 30% which is how often you would expect to crit, assuming you confirm all crits = 1.05 Con damage per swing) 1.05 con damage per swing on your main hand.

Off hand you are currently dealing 1 con damage each swing, for a grand total of 2.05 con damage for main/off hand attack on average.

A short sword would have 3.5 average con damage per crit * 20% = 0.7 con damage per swing.

The rapier shortsword would have a total of 1.05 +0.7 = 1.75 con damage.

I would stick with the wounder until you could find another puncturing rapier.

Turial
03-07-2009, 01:24 PM
what about if i use a +2 shocking burst short sword of puncturing? I'll still do more con damage with puncturing rapier/wounding dagger?

If a wounder is better than a puncturer for con damage why don't i just use 2 wounders??

This stuff is confusing :confused:

A puncturing rapier does 1.05 con damage per swing on average. 2 of them deal 2.1 con damage on average which is slightly better then 2 wounders. Also if you have a high critical puncturing weapon like a rapier it is possible to get strings of critical hits that greatly outpace wounders.

This isn't two say that if you have 2 nice wounders that you shouldn't use them.

branmakmuffin
03-07-2009, 01:27 PM
I may be wrong, but I believe on vorpals need be confirmed critical hits. The rest just need an unconfirmed crit.

You must have meant "a confirmed crit on an initial roll of something other than a natural 20." An "unconfirmed crit" is just a normal hit.

Verdant_Force
03-07-2009, 01:32 PM
A guildy let me use a puncturing rapier if I want to but I only have a +21 and +19 to hit when i dual wield them unbuffed and with CE on.

+23 and +22 with my puncturing rapier/wounding dagger combo under the same situation.

I'm level 16 so my BAB wont get any higher.

Still stick to the rapier/dagger for the higher attack? or change to 2 puncturing rapiers for more con dmg and less attack +?

Strakeln
03-07-2009, 01:38 PM
Still stick to the rapier/dagger for the higher attack? or change to 2 puncturing rapiers for more con dmg and less attack +?In general, change to two puncturing rapiers. The crit range is the only portion you care about, and you should be able to confirm still.

There are ways to mitigate this problem: Bloodstone, critical accuracy feats/enhancements, oversized TWF feats, bard buffs, GH, so on and so forth.