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Garth_of_Sarlona
03-01-2009, 09:31 PM
The devs have already said that some loot in module 9 will be 'bound to account' rather than 'bound to character'. I think this should be retroactively applied to some things already in the game:

- Dragonshards from Reaver pre-quests. It's really annoying when people 'switch out' at the end of a quest because they need these items on other characters - people should be able to run these on any toon and swap them around.
- Queen preraid loot - I'm talking about the Orb, Bowl and Phylactory. Same reason as above, you should be able to run these on any toon and switch out.
- Bound and attuned items. 'bind and attune' was introduced to take the best items out of the market place (i.e. act as an item sink). By allowing these items to be traded within accounts means that they stay out of the market, it encourages more people to bind and attune, and means you can still share items in your account. This should not apply to raid loot that is subsequently bound and attuned.

Thoughts?

Garth

Lorichie
03-01-2009, 09:45 PM
The devs have already said that some loot in module 9 will be 'bound to account' rather than 'bound to character'. I think this should be retroactively applied to some things already in the game:

- Dragonshards from Reaver pre-quests. It's really annoying when people 'switch out' at the end of a quest because they need these items on other characters - people should be able to run these on any toon and swap them around.
- Queen preraid loot - I'm talking about the Orb, Bowl and Phylactory. Same reason as above, you should be able to run these on any toon and switch out.
- Bound and attuned items. 'bind and attune' was introduced to take the best items out of the market place (i.e. act as an item sink). By allowing these items to be traded within accounts means that they stay out of the market, it encourages more people to bind and attune, and means you can still share items in your account. This should not apply to raid loot that is subsequently bound and attuned.

Thoughts?

Garth


Shards dont bother me, so no opinion on those.

Queen: i can see how this would ease the ache a little so i'm ok with this.

Bound and attuned items: Oh heck yeah. I have one tank, who has a +5 mith breastplate, +5 mith full plate, +5 mith tower shield, and Breastplate of destruction all bound and attuned. For obvious reasons he wont use anything but BoD, and thats if i dont knock him off. I just dont know how to fix him next mod. So when i delete him, i expect BoD to go away, its raid loot, im fine with that, but the others? Man, i'd hate to lose mbp, mfp and mts all from just one guy.

R

FluffyCalico
03-01-2009, 10:00 PM
Nah as soon as bound loot can be given to an alt you will never see any raid gear for roll again.

Borror0
03-01-2009, 10:06 PM
Nah as soon as bound loot can be given to an alt you will never see any raid gear for roll again.
None of his suggestions actually were about raid loot but applied to item who could really benefit from BtA over BtC.

Perhaps you should read again (and in case you didn't know, Bound to Account loot is already planned for Module 9.0 as Phax said (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=2074110#post2074110)).

Thelmallen
03-02-2009, 12:14 PM
/signed

I like the suggestions, Garth assuming that Borro is right and you weren't talking about raid loot. I have a +2 w/p rapier that I freaked out and bound in a moment of panic when it took an eensy teensy little bit of permanent damage that I sure would love to be able to switch around to alts! I don't see why that is a game breaker as it still achieves the goal of restricting them and keeping them out of the auctionhouse. I dont' know how hard that would be to code but I like the idea immensely.

Pyromaniac
03-02-2009, 04:46 PM
Personally I think all loot that is currently bound should be bound to account including raid loot.

Borror0
03-02-2009, 04:53 PM
Personally I think all loot that is currently bound should be bound to account including raid loot.
Bound to Account raid loot would cause problems.

Cold_Stele
03-02-2009, 05:07 PM
Bound to Account raid loot would cause problems.

I've no problem at all with these suggestions. As I said in another thread, the irony of Reaver's Refuge is that the character who runs it easiest (Ranger) has the least need for DT armor.

As for putting bound/raid loot into an Account Bank it would be great for rerolls etc, but it'd cause all hell in raids, as people have said.

Anyone think of a way around it?

Btw - has anyone got any clue what we will actually be getting bound to account?

esoitl
03-02-2009, 11:00 PM
I'll disagree with any flagging items, ie. DQ pres, MOD 8 gems, Abbot Sigils etc...

Bound/Attuned would be a nice change to become bound to account though. I think there are a lot of us that are pretty hesitant to use the rituals on anything not already bound as then it's forever stuck on a certain character. Really takes some of the usefulness out of the system.

Auran82
03-02-2009, 11:07 PM
Bound to Account raid loot would cause problems.

What about 20th raid end rewards?

Uska
03-02-2009, 11:24 PM
The devs have already said that some loot in module 9 will be 'bound to account' rather than 'bound to character'. I think this should be retroactively applied to some things already in the game:

- Dragonshards from Reaver pre-quests. It's really annoying when people 'switch out' at the end of a quest because they need these items on other characters - people should be able to run these on any toon and swap them around.
- Queen preraid loot - I'm talking about the Orb, Bowl and Phylactory. Same reason as above, you should be able to run these on any toon and switch out. - Bound and attuned items. 'bind and attune' was introduced to take the best items out of the market place (i.e. act as an item sink). By allowing these items to be traded within accounts means that they stay out of the market, it encourages more people to bind and attune, and means you can still share items in your account. This should not apply to raid loot that is subsequently bound and attuned.

Thoughts?

Garth


Disagree with the red on both those only the character earning them should get them and they should do something about people swithching out characters to cheat the system.

Uska
03-02-2009, 11:26 PM
Personally I think all loot that is currently bound should be bound to account including raid loot.

and people sharing raid loot would decrease greatly.

Garth_of_Sarlona
03-02-2009, 11:39 PM
Yes I agree with many of the posters here - I've come round to the idea that anything raid related should remain character bound, but I do like the idea of making 'bound and attuned' items account bound. In fact, I see no real downside to this - it's good for the players (allows exchange of items within an account) and fits well with the devs' original purpose for binding and attuning since it will encourage a lot more people to take the plunge and bind their items.

Garth

Uska
03-03-2009, 12:07 AM
Yes I agree with many of the posters here - I've come round to the idea that anything raid related should remain character bound, but I do like the idea of making 'bound and attuned' items account bound. In fact, I see no real downside to this - it's good for the players (allows exchange of items within an account) and fits well with the devs' original purpose for binding and attuning since it will encourage a lot more people to take the plunge and bind their items.

Garth

Bound and attuned items are fine that might even increase people selling some stuff though which is maybe good more people might have a chance at some rare items if someone can share some of their rare loot between their characters.

KaKa
03-03-2009, 12:10 AM
If people want to use the dragon shard to make an item immune to permanent damage and add rituals to it, then I think those items would be a good candidate for being account bound.

VirieSquichie
03-03-2009, 04:21 PM
If people want to use the dragon shard to make an item immune to permanent damage and add rituals to it, then I think those items would be a good candidate for being account bound.

Fits in with the "handed down from generation to generation" idea also, which is how starting adventurers have traditionally gotten their one good piece of equipment. Of course, in DDO it's more like 20-40 pieces of equipment of varying levels, half a dozen stacks of varying types of potions, a big pile of components for casters, a pile of gold the size of a tavern...

Ustice
03-04-2009, 08:27 AM
I think that this is a great idea for encouraging the use of the Stone of Change. Also I would add the Planar Shards to the list.

Harncw
03-04-2009, 08:34 AM
Bound to Account raid loot would cause problems.

If raid loot was bound to account it would also resolve problems....

Like the whole character respec issue... which is a gigantic issue...
If people could reroll without losing raid loot... problem would be mostly solved, IMHO

oogly54
03-04-2009, 08:37 AM
For all of you that hate WOPs, partly because they are hard to get and rare, the bound items become bound to account would greatly reduce the rarity of these items. For examples, I have 8 melee charaters, all with two WOPs, 6 being rapiers. If by change these became bound to account I would instantly have 14 WOPs for trade and the value would drop becasue so many would become available so quickly.

I, on the other hand, would have large ingrediants coming out my wazoo!

dopey69
03-04-2009, 08:38 AM
tell me that the three sets of dragon scale armour i have collecting dust in my banks will be able to be passed on to my other alts. I put a lot of time into running for them , trading and yes even borrowing scales for them that it would be nice to use them. once in a while. sadly shroud crafted items make them not so uber as they once were. more of a trophy to polish your tear stains off of now!

04pugdog04
03-04-2009, 08:38 AM
Disagree with the red on both those only the character earning them should get them and they should do something about people swithching out characters to cheat the system.


So I am on my tank for Kobold he doesnt have evasion and we wait like 30 minutes cant get a evansion so I say I will switch to my rogue so we have evasion but I want to switch out at end so that my tank can get the shard he needs what is wrong with that helps group group knows up front what I am doing.

oogly54
03-04-2009, 08:42 AM
If raid loot was bound to account it would also resolve problems....

Like the whole character respec issue... which is a gigantic issue...
If people could reroll without losing raid loot... problem would be mostly solved, IMHO

But it would be the end of generousity in raids, which is a dying art as it is. Need before greed seems foreign to most raids these days.

It would also mean I can stop running every raid out there becasue I have every piece of raid loot there is on at least a few toons. Considering all I do is raid, I would have nothing to play for and probably get bored and quit the game.

I run the titan religously, at least 6 a week. I have 5 toons with the chattering ring and titan belt and a couple that still need one or both. If those items were bound to account, I would never run titan again, ever.

Borror0
03-04-2009, 08:53 AM
Like the whole character respec issue... which is a gigantic issue...
Remove one, create another. Not a good fix. Actually, it's two poor fixes.

It does not solve all problems that could be fixed by a better respec option.

jerryxenon
03-04-2009, 08:59 AM
I think some of the above suggestions are good excluding Raid loot I agree that would be a bad Idea.

I would like to see farmed weapons/Armor ie.. Scale trade in armor, Tome trade in weapons and the like included.These are often outgrown but really useful items mid level, I mean who wouldn't like to hand down their Blue Dragon Scale armor to their mid- level character.

sephiroth1084
03-04-2009, 09:10 AM
What about 20th raid end rewards?

Now that would be an interesting work-around! It avoids the problem of people no longer sharing raid loot, while also making it difficult to amass too much of it as well.

I cannot see any way for this to work retroactively, but I think that, going forward, it would be a fan-****ing-TASTIC idea to put a flag on 20th reward items that makes them BTA. At the very least, this is a semi-elegant solution to those 20th lists that having nothing for a particular character.

oogly54
03-04-2009, 09:19 AM
So I am on my tank for Kobold he doesnt have evasion and we wait like 30 minutes cant get a evansion so I say I will switch to my rogue so we have evasion but I want to switch out at end so that my tank can get the shard he needs what is wrong with that helps group group knows up front what I am doing.

The issue is that everyone will only run evasion toons and never need to run others. THis allows for you to only run your best character through a quest ever. Why would I run my new toon that isnt as well equiped when I can run my tweaked out stud and just give my new toon the goods.

Steiner-Davion
03-04-2009, 10:26 AM
If raid loot was bound to account it would also resolve problems....

Like the whole character respec issue... which is a gigantic issue...
If people could reroll without losing raid loot... problem would be mostly solved, IMHO

Again this is a terrible idea. What would prevent peopl from just picking up every piece of raid loot that they received in a chest?

You desparately need that +100 tome I just pulled? Oh too bad, so sad, so can my new level 1 Alt, I'm picking it up and putting it in my Bound to Account Bank Tab. (Tome exagerrated to make a point)

ahpook
03-04-2009, 10:32 AM
Again this is a terrible idea. What would prevent peopl from just picking up every piece of raid loot that they received in a chest?

You desparately need that +100 tome I just pulled? Oh too bad, so sad, so can my new level 1 Alt, I'm picking it up and putting it in my Bound to Account Bank Tab. (Tome exagerrated to make a point)

You didn't need to exaggerate to make that point.

Joe: Excellent, a +3 int Tome
Sue: I'll roll for it!
Joe: I am keeping it!
Sue: But I saw you get one yesterday in the Shroud
Joe: Yes but I am grabbing it for my Alt
Sue: But your 10 alts have all used +3 int tomes
Joe: Yes but someday, they might allow us to have 11 characters and when they introduce the Fairy Princess class, I am going to roll one up.
Sue: So you are taking it because you might want to use it in 2012?
Joe: Yep!

Uska
03-04-2009, 10:38 AM
So I am on my tank for Kobold he doesnt have evasion and we wait like 30 minutes cant get a evansion so I say I will switch to my rogue so we have evasion but I want to switch out at end so that my tank can get the shard he needs what is wrong with that helps group group knows up front what I am doing.

not if he didnt earn it. Period people do it plenty of times without evasion, switching like you talk about smacks of cheating cheese to me and weakens the game

Steiner-Davion
03-04-2009, 10:48 AM
What does everyone think about Binding-to-Account Static Loot rewards that normally bind to acquire?

Uska
03-04-2009, 12:22 PM
What does everyone think about Binding-to-Account Static Loot rewards that normally bind to acquire?

dont like it.

Phidius
03-04-2009, 12:29 PM
What does everyone think about Binding-to-Account Static Loot rewards that normally bind to acquire?

Everyone likes it. Except Uska. :D

Seriously, though, I'm betting that a majority of people don't want raid loot to bind, but would prefer to have items that we bind be Account Bound. And I'll bet there's a significant number of people who want it to be retroactive...

mediocresurgeon
03-04-2009, 12:36 PM
The issue is that everyone will only run evasion toons and never need to run others. THis allows for you to only run your best character through a quest ever. Why would I run my new toon that isnt as well equiped when I can run my tweaked out stud and just give my new toon the goods.

If this is true, why bother to make the new toon at all? Just keep playing your other character, and delete your new toon, since it is such a gimp that it would never be played.

On a side note, evasion is nice for certain quests, but it is certainly not the end-all-be-all of character class features.

frugal_gourmet
03-04-2009, 12:38 PM
They should make the icy raiments bound to account.

That would allow me to farm for them with my magic user [that's right, homeslice. I said magic user].

Anything that increases farming can only be good.

Right?

RIGHT?

Is this thing on?

mediocresurgeon
03-04-2009, 12:43 PM
Originally, I suspected that making raid loot bind-to-account would actually create a surplus of raid loot (making it easier to get and roll for). It did not occur to me that people might roll for raid loot for a character they haven't even made yet. (Probably because I dislike making new characters, and would rather just pimp out the characters I already have.)

I am not sure why Icy Rainments are binding. I know there are a few other items like this, such as the Ring of Troll Regeneration or something like that. Because I cannot speculate the reasons for which these items bind, I really cannot say whether or not it would be appropriate to make them bind-to-account items instead.

VirieSquichie
03-04-2009, 01:18 PM
Originally, I suspected that making raid loot bind-to-account would actually create a surplus of raid loot (making it easier to get and roll for). It did not occur to me that people might roll for raid loot for a character they haven't even made yet. (Probably because I dislike making new characters, and would rather just pimp out the characters I already have.)

I am not sure why Icy Rainments are binding. I know there are a few other items like this, such as the Ring of Troll Regeneration or something like that. Because I cannot speculate the reasons for which these items bind, I really cannot say whether or not it would be appropriate to make them bind-to-account items instead.

They bind because forcing other people to help you farm for them is preferable to Turbine than letting us play content using another character where it may be, you know, enjoyable. You want Teh Uber L00tz, suffer for 'em. After all, if you have to do many painful grinds to get what you want, you'll have less time to stare at the same old content wishing for something interesting to do. Or so the theory goes.

Me, I don't buy into that any more. I think at this point there is little cohesive Master Plan and a whole lot of making do in little ways to just get past the next quarterly financial meeting that decides how small the team will shrink to for the following quarter...

Go ahead, Turbine, prove me wrong.

dominp
03-04-2009, 01:21 PM
The devs have already said that some loot in module 9 will be 'bound to account' rather than 'bound to character'. I think this should be retroactively applied to some things already in the game:

- Dragonshards from Reaver pre-quests. It's really annoying when people 'switch out' at the end of a quest because they need these items on other characters - people should be able to run these on any toon and swap them around.
- Queen preraid loot - I'm talking about the Orb, Bowl and Phylactory. Same reason as above, you should be able to run these on any toon and switch out.
- Bound and attuned items. 'bind and attune' was introduced to take the best items out of the market place (i.e. act as an item sink). By allowing these items to be traded within accounts means that they stay out of the market, it encourages more people to bind and attune, and means you can still share items in your account. This should not apply to raid loot that is subsequently bound and attuned.

Thoughts?

Garth

What about this? what about that???
People will always want more and never be happy with what they get.
They have already stated it wont be retroactive, lets just accept that and go forward.

/unsigned

Harncw
03-04-2009, 04:11 PM
It would also mean I can stop running every raid out there becasue I have every piece of raid loot there is on at least a few toons. Considering all I do is raid, I would have nothing to play for and probably get bored and quit the game.

qft. I shut up now ;)

other good points in here why raid loot bad are good as well.

Strakeln
03-04-2009, 04:56 PM
It would also mean I can stop running every raid out there becasue I have every piece of raid loot there is on at least a few toons. Considering all I do is raid, I would have nothing to play for and probably get bored and quit the game.Well, that's you. I prefer to have my characters all stocked on their own, I don't share items back and forth.

That said, I'd probably support your stance because I don't want to exacerbate the problem of "oh I forgot my bloodstone" "oh I forgot my greaves" "oh I forgot my WoP" (while the party stands around waiting).

WolfSpirit
03-04-2009, 05:06 PM
- Bound and attuned items. 'bind and attune' was introduced to take the best items out of the market place (i.e. act as an item sink). By allowing these items to be traded within accounts means that they stay out of the market, it encourages more people to bind and attune, and means you can still share items in your account. This should not apply to raid loot that is subsequently bound and attuned.

I had a similar suggestion in the "Bank Tab" official Thread and I'm glad its getting some attention here.
/signed

RATRACE931
03-04-2009, 05:09 PM
Srry garth can't stand behind you on this one, the only thing currently in game that I think should be account bound is the items you bound in the Alter, I see no downside at all to allowing these to be BTA instead of BTC

Garth_of_Sarlona
03-04-2009, 05:24 PM
Srry garth can't stand behind you on this one, the only thing currently in game that I think should be account bound is the items you bound in the Alter, I see no downside at all to allowing these to be BTA instead of BTC

Read post 13 (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=2076618#post2076618). After reading responses from people, I do agree. Seems like bound items from the alter ('bound and attuned') everyone agrees should be 'bound to account' - everything else should stay like it is. Don't like editing original posts though.


What about this? what about that???
People will always want more and never be happy with what they get.
They have already stated it wont be retroactive, lets just accept that and go forward.

/unsigned

I never said I was unhappy with what I got - I think the shared bank is a great addition and look forward to its arrival. I was just throwing some suggestions out there, that is, after all, what the 'suggestions' forum is for. Disappointed you would object to this addition, but that's your opinion.

Garth

BigBadBarry
03-04-2009, 05:43 PM
In regards to making the DQ flagging items bind to account I'd personally prefer to see them spend the dev time changing the flagging mechanism so you only need the items once then you just rerun DQ1 and DQ2 every 3 days like you can Reaver/Shroud.

ALOT of people hate DQ and don't run it because of the pre-flagging required each time.

Be nice to effectively add another raid to the game by making this change.

Hafeal
03-04-2009, 06:23 PM
and people sharing raid loot would decrease greatly.


But it would be the end of generousity in raids, which is a dying art as it is. Need before greed seems foreign to most raids these days.


Hmmm ... I understand the logic used to reach these sentiments but in a game where we have posts or thoughts like oogly's now complaining about people not sharing raid loot, what does it really matter? My guess is that some poeple will share regardless of the rules, based on who they are.

The problem I see is that players tend to only view issues through their mind set. Thus end game players, raiders, loot *****s, power-gamers (killers and achievers) approach loot in a whole different fashion than explorers and socialites. Players play the game for many many different reasons. Guilds and friends will still share.

At no point, now or in the future, is or should there be a rule that PUGs *need* to give up raid loot to anyone. It's your loot, you do with it what you want. By saying that players won't share with you because it is BTA is probably not the best reason to advocate against BTA raid loot, in my opinion.


It would also mean I can stop running every raid out there becasue I have every piece of raid loot there is on at least a few toons. Considering all I do is raid, I would have nothing to play for and probably get bored and quit the game.

I run the titan religiously, at least 6 a week. I have 5 toons with the chattering ring and titan belt and a couple that still need one or both. If those items were bound to account, I would never run titan again, ever.

I agree if raid loot was BTA there is a group of players that would not need to grind certain equipment anymore and would stop running certain raids - at least until they need the favor again on a different character.

I see this once again coming down to an argument of the "haves" and "have nots" - the "haves" have plenty of time to do the grind to get the specific items they want or need. The "have nots" do not have the time but would like a mechanism to transfer items they do obtain. It is an uneasy tension that has been discussed many times on these boards and I have empathy for both positions.

I think there should be a middle ground - an opportunity to transfer raid loot items - but with a serious, but not impossible cost for casual gamers. As crafting evolves and results in making the most powerful items in the game, perhaps this will become less of an issue if you allow non-crafted raid loot to be transferable but not crafted raid loot (after all, if you craft it for that character at high level you wanted it for that character).

Just my 2 cps.

Pyromaniac
03-05-2009, 04:29 PM
Have to say - I could care less if sharing raid loot goes away because it would be bound to account.

The only argument that seems somewhat valid is that once you have all the raid loot you need, you wouldn't run a raid again on new characters. That would be an awful lot of raids to get everything you need for every character, so to me it seems like a fair reward for all the work.

The biggest benefit would be actually getting the classes you need for a raid to make it run smoothly.

If there's no full respec system coming, this seems like an easy and fair alternative - bind to account all raid loot including retroactive to all raid items!