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Mirta
02-22-2009, 09:11 AM
Fix the Teleport spell.
Fix the Reconstruct spell to work per Eberron campaign book specs (Total Repair).
Let us make concentration checks when opening doors/chests/etc.
Give us the Mirror Image spell (doesn't need the animation, just give us the buff symbol).
Give us some more metamagic feats: like dual energy (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Dual_Energy_Spell_%28DnD_Feat%29), prismatic energy (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Prismatic_Energy_Spell_%28DnD_Feat%29), or energy substitution (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Energy_Substitution).
Fix displacement on enemies so it's not 90% and blur on enemies so it's not 50%. While you're at that you can fix incorporeal so it's 50% instead of 90%.
Fix enemy dispel spells so gnolls/scorrow in level 11 quests can't completely debuff a level 16 caster of 30 buffs in one shot. They should have to roll like we do.
Fix the lag.
Fix dndclient.exe so it doesn't cause 5+ crashes a day.
Give us a 3:1 ingredient trader for shroud ingredients so large bones will have some use instead of piling up to 1000 then being tossed.
Increase the plat cap. You can easily do this by either: 1-remove copper pieces and add something with 10times the value of plat, use silver as the base. 2-add jewelry or gems we can buy and sell for an equal value.
Fix spell durations.
Bring back dimension door scrolls, as well as the rest of the scrolls you took away.
Fix the weight of the die roll for enemy spells like the sound burst spell. It's obvious it's rigged when 6 people roll a 1 at the same time most of the time the spell is used against us.
Lower the cost of raise dead/resurrection scrolls. There's no reason they should cost so much.
Give us greensteel handwraps so monks will be welcome/useful in our raids.
Change death penalty to the way it used to be. Causing us extra gear damage to take money out of the economy is weak. The death penalty was also useful for preparing new players for high end content. If they can't make it past level9 due to negative experience, then they shouldn't be getting to level16 and applying for our raids. They need to learn to crawl before sprinting.
My sorcerer is supposed to get five level 1 and 2 spells. Would that really be game breaking?
Fix UMD to work per PnP specs. If you're so adamant about sticking to pen and paper rules then you should do so not just for things that hurt us, but for things that help us as well.
Bring back Risia and give us a mod9 preview build.

adamkatt
02-22-2009, 09:31 AM
I agree.

Angelus_dead
02-22-2009, 09:38 AM
Tip: Forum threads are more effective if they have a title indicative of their contents, or at least somewhat distinctive.


Fix the Reconstruct spell to work per Eberron campaign book specs (Total Repair).
The part about being touch-range? Or the part where neither wizards nor sorcerers can cast it?


Let us make concentration checks when opening doors/chests/etc.
So monks and wizards can open doors in combat, but barbs and paladins can't...



Give us the Mirror Image spell (doesn't need the animation, just give us the buff symbol).
Another powerful defensive buff. What'll happen when it gets stacked with Displacement? Are you aware of the fundamental buff inequivalence of time-dialated game adaptations?


Fix displacement on enemies so it's not 90% and blur on enemies so it's not 50%. While you're at that you can fix incorporeal so it's 50% instead of 90%.
Selection bias: concealment misses are more remembered than the hits.


Fix enemy dispel spells so gnolls/scorrow in level 11 quests can't completely debuff a level 16 caster of 30 buffs in one shot. They should have to roll like we do.
They do have to roll, but you are correct that DDO's Dispel Magic system needs adjustment to be more balanced in gameplay. For one thing, monsters like you mentioned have high caster levels, but because of their slow cast-rate (and no metas) they aren't nearly as effective as same-level PC casters, except when it comes to debuffing with Dispel Magic.

Basically, any wizard or cleric monster who has level 5 spells but doesn't include Greater Dispel Magic is an idiot, because GDM is overpowered for DDO mobs, and underpowered for DDO players. It would be nice if the devs could fix this, although that's low priority compared to the other flaws.


Increase the plat cap. You can easily do this by either: 1-remove copper pieces and add something with 10times the value of plat, use silver as the base. 2-add jewelry or gems we can buy and sell for an equal value.
Note that 4e D&D does that very formally, and has "astral diamond" as the unit of coinage bigger than platinum pieces.



Bring back dimension door scrolls, as well as the rest of the scrolls you took away.
Well, CK and FW scrolls were really bad at the time. However, since then the spellpoint prices for metamagic feats have changed. Back when the scrolls were sold, a Max-Extended Wall of Fire was usually a wasteful mistake; now, it's the default assumption.


Fix the weight of the die roll for enemy spells like the sound burst spell. It's obvious it's rigged when 6 people roll a 1 at the same time most of the time the spell is used against us.
" selection bias.



Lower the cost of raise dead/resurrection scrolls. There's no reason they should cost so much.
There's a good reason for that. If you want to complain about the expense, you'd instead have to start with how DDO clerics are specially exempted from needing the expensive component for Raise Dead. (It would be technically difficult to adjust the UI to handle it, so instead the devs give those diamonds for free)



Change death penalty to the way it used to be. Causing us extra gear damage to take money out of the economy is weak. The death penalty was also useful for preparing new players for high end content. If they can't make it past level9 due to negative experience, then they shouldn't be getting to level16 and applying for our raids. They need to learn to crawl before sprinting.
Wow.


My sorcerer is supposed to get five level 1 and 2 spells. Would that really be game breaking?
Anti-nirvana fallacy.



Fix UMD to work per PnP specs. If you're so adamant about sticking to pen and paper rules then you should do so not just for things that hurt us, but for things that help us as well.
Uh, they're not adamant at all...

Angelus_dead
02-22-2009, 09:42 AM
Fix enemy dispel spells so gnolls/scorrow in level 11 quests can't completely debuff a level 16 caster of 30 buffs in one shot. They should have to roll like we do.
Oh, here is a thread with many suggestions to change Dispel Magic (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=160536) gameplay.

adamkatt
02-22-2009, 10:15 AM
Tip: Forum threads are more effective if they have a title indicative of their contents, or at least somewhat distinctive.


The part about being touch-range? Or the part where neither wizards nor sorcerers can cast it?


So monks and wizards can open doors in combat, but barbs and paladins can't...



Another powerful defensive buff. What'll happen when it gets stacked with Displacement? Are you aware of the fundamental buff inequivalence of time-dialated game adaptations?


Selection bias: concealment misses are more remembered than the hits.


They do have to roll, but you are correct that DDO's Dispel Magic system needs adjustment to be more balanced in gameplay. For one thing, monsters like you mentioned have high caster levels, but because of their slow cast-rate (and no metas) they aren't nearly as effective as same-level PC casters, except when it comes to debuffing with Dispel Magic.

Basically, any wizard or cleric monster who has level 5 spells but doesn't include Greater Dispel Magic is an idiot, because GDM is overpowered for DDO mobs, and underpowered for DDO players. It would be nice if the devs could fix this, although that's low priority compared to the other flaws.


Note that 4e D&D does that very formally, and has "astral diamond" as the unit of coinage bigger than platinum pieces.



Well, CK and FW scrolls were really bad at the time. However, since then the spellpoint prices for metamagic feats have changed. Back when the scrolls were sold, a Max-Extended Wall of Fire was usually a wasteful mistake; now, it's the default assumption.


" selection bias.



There's a good reason for that. If you want to complain about the expense, you'd instead have to start with how DDO clerics are specially exempted from needing the expensive component for Raise Dead. (It would be technically difficult to adjust the UI to handle it, so instead the devs give those diamonds for free)



Wow.


Anti-nirvana fallacy.



Uh, they're not adamant at all...


I think next time you need to seperate each word into a quote and of course with a responce to each said word....

Angelus_dead
02-22-2009, 10:17 AM
I think next time you need to seperate each word into a quote and of course with a responce to each said word....
If a person makes a large number of suggestions which have little relationship to each other, it would be inaccurate to reply to them all as one unit.

I think next time you feel that some post is too lengthy, you need to not quote the whole thing and then make your own one-sentence rejoinder.

Tanka
02-22-2009, 10:18 AM
Fix dndclient.exe so it doesn't cause 5+ crashes a day.
I don't crash that often. In fact, I had my first crash in three years of playing about a week ago, and have yet to again.

Perhaps you should check your own system first before claiming it's on Turbine's end.

Mirta
02-22-2009, 10:21 AM
Tip: Forum threads are more effective if they have a title indicative of their contents, or at least somewhat distinctive.

Would "Listen to Mirta B**** and Moan About More Stuff" have worked?


The part about being touch-range? Or the part where neither wizards nor sorcerers can cast it?

Yes, that and:


Total Repair
Level: Cleric, 6
School: Transmutation
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Touch
Duration: Instantaneous
Description: The touched Construct (with at least 1 hp) or Living Construct (at –9 hp or higher) is repaired 10hp per level (max 150hp). In addition, the following conditions are removed from the subject: Ability Damage, Blindness, Confusion, Dazed, Dazzled, Deafened, Feeblemind, and/or Insanity.

It'd be nice to max/empower it as well, but my concerns are more from a UMD character scrolling itself/other WF.


So monks and wizards can open doors in combat, but barbs and paladins can't...

Yes.


Another powerful defensive buff. What'll happen when it gets stacked with Displacement? Are you aware of the fundamental buff inequivalence of time-dialated game adaptations?

Them there is some fancy words mister. It's as easy as adding a ridiculous cool-down timer to the spell. Devs seem to love ridiculous cool-down timers, so it's not that hard.


Selection bias: concealment misses are more remembered than the hits.

Sorry, but when my level 7-9 melee is whacking on something in Gianthold and getting the "Displaced" 8 times in a row CONSTATNLY (not just on occasion) as well as everybody else doing the same, then there is something wrong. Go test it out. Check your combat log afterwards and you'll see FAR more displaced misses than hits/misses. No offense, but anybody who would defend this has never played a melee w/o true seeing or doesn't often enough.


Note that 4e D&D does that very formally, and has "astral diamond" as the unit of coinage bigger than platinum pieces.

Uber. Now they just need to add them in.


" selection bias.

On most spells, yes. I'll admit I know that natural 1 on a hold monster is remembered more so than the countless saves, but this spell is just plain rigged. Any lowbie quest where a caster (IE undead clerics) casts this there is just a ridiculous amount of failures. I've seen entire parties stunned by a single cast of this, and since the DC is so low EVERYBODY had to roll a 1 at the same time. This has a phenomenally low chance of occurring, and I see it often. I understand this is a method of making quests more challenging, but it is annoying as hell.

Lorichie
02-22-2009, 10:24 AM
I don't crash that often. In fact, I had my first crash in three years of playing about a week ago, and have yet to again.

Perhaps you should check your own system first before claiming it's on Turbine's end.

I've only crashed once. It was a driver. Never crashed again.

R

Tanka
02-22-2009, 10:25 AM
Sorry, but when my level 7-9 melee is whacking on something in Gianthold and getting the "Displaced" 8 times in a row CONSTATNLY (not just on occasion) as well as everybody else doing the same, then there is something wrong. Go test it out. Check your combat log afterwards and you'll see FAR more displaced misses than hits/misses. No offense, but anybody who would defend this has never played a melee w/o true seeing or doesn't often enough.
Funny. GH is designed around higher level characters who can scroll-cast True Seeing with a minimal chance of failure. You expect them to change the way a buff works because of an area they made far too easy?

Watch your combat log next time. It isn't 90%. It's 50%.

Mirta
02-22-2009, 10:26 AM
I don't crash that often. In fact, I had my first crash in three years of playing about a week ago, and have yet to again.

Perhaps you should check your own system first before claiming it's on Turbine's end.

Yup! Must be my system. That and everybody else I knows' systems. We are power gamers. We play countless hours a week and ALL get the same crashes with the same errors (not at the same time, though).

Oh, and I've got about a dozen certifications and a Bachelor's relating to IT. I think I'd know when it's on my end.

Mirta
02-22-2009, 10:28 AM
Funny. GH is designed around higher level characters who can scroll-cast True Seeing with a minimal chance of failure. You expect them to change the way a buff works because of an area they made far too easy?

Watch your combat log next time. It isn't 90%. It's 50%.

I watch it all the time, buddy. I'm a power gamer and that's part of what I do! Hold on, displaced, displaced, displaced, displaced, displaced, displaced, displaced, displaced, displaced, displaced, displaced, displaced, hit! Yup. That's 50% alright.

Pyromaniac
02-22-2009, 10:30 AM
/signed for OP original post

Tanka
02-22-2009, 10:32 AM
Yup! Must be my system. That and everybody else I knows' systems. We are power gamers. We play countless hours a week and ALL get the same crashes with the same errors (not at the same time, though).

Oh, and I've got about a dozen certifications and a Bachelor's relating to IT. I think I'd know when it's on my end.
And yet some guy on a forum who only holds a passing interest in IT doesn't have any problems.

Hmm. Right.


I watch it all the time, buddy. I'm a power gamer and that's part of what I do! Hold on, displaced, displaced, displaced, displaced, displaced, displaced, displaced, displaced, displaced, displaced, displaced, displaced, hit! Yup. That's 50% alright.
And you don't notice the amount of times you do get through the displacement. As A_d said: selection bias.

Mirta
02-22-2009, 10:38 AM
And yet some guy on a forum who only holds a passing interest in IT doesn't have any problems.

Uh, I think that was actually my point. It's not on my end. Play more often and you'll see some crashes.



And you don't notice the amount of times you do get through the displacement. As A_d said: selection bias.

Actually, all I ever look for are the times I do get through. It's just that each of those is drowned out by the 9 times I don't. Once again, play more often and you'll see.

Tanka
02-22-2009, 10:40 AM
Uh, I think that was actually my point. It's not on my end. Play more often and you'll see some crashes.
Try again. When I sit down to play, I'm down for the long haul. No crashes on my system.


Actually, all I ever look for are the times I do get through. It's just that each of those is drowned out by the 9 times I don't. Once again, play more often and you'll see.
You spend that long True Seeing-less? Alternatively, your caster doesn't kill casters first?

Some powergamer you are.

Mirta
02-22-2009, 10:48 AM
Try again. When I sit down to play, I'm down for the long haul. No crashes on my system.

Congratulations. I'm glad to hear your two hour "long haul" marathons don't result in crashes.


You spend that long True Seeing-less? Alternatively, your caster doesn't kill casters first?

Some powergamer you are.

Unfortunately, part of being a power gamer, and leveling from 1-16 in three days or less, involves leveling in odd groups. We don't always have a caster or cleric, because we don't usually need them. Those eight hours or so in gianthold grinding out the crucible/TBF/madstone/etc 10 times each usually are annoying when we don't have a cleric/caster.

Tanka
02-22-2009, 10:51 AM
Congratulations. I'm glad to hear your two hour "long haul" marathons don't result in crashes.
Ooh, you've played with me then! Wow, look at that, you can play with Sarlonians from Thelanis! What kind of leet tech is that?

:rolleyes:

Mirta
02-22-2009, 10:54 AM
Ooh, you've played with me then! Wow, look at that, you can play with Sarlonians from Thelanis! What kind of leet tech is that?

:rolleyes:

^^^This folks, is when a troll runs out of juice. Thanks for stopping by and helping to make my thread a hot topic! Next, please.:)

Tanka
02-22-2009, 10:59 AM
^^^This folks, is when a troll runs out of juice. Thanks for stopping by and helping to make my thread a hot topic! Next, please.:)
My daddy can beat up your daddy.

Aranticus
02-22-2009, 11:04 AM
Congratulations. I'm glad to hear your two hour "long haul" marathons don't result in crashes.

i've been playing ddo for almost 3 years now and have barely 10 crashes. i'm not sure how long is your long haul but i have run ddo 3days continously before w/o shutting down. i do a disk cleanup once a week. every forthnight i do a defrag. i also ensure that i scan the hd for ad wares or viruses

alternatively, stop d/l midget porn ;)

Angelus_dead
02-22-2009, 11:05 AM
Yes, that and:
Uh.

Sorry, but the Eberron Campaign Setting does not list Total Repair as a cleric spell like you claim. In fact, Total Repair isn't even part of the Artifice domain Eberron clerics can take.

Aesop
02-22-2009, 11:12 AM
My daddy can beat up your daddy.

Who's your daddy... wait a second... that came out weird

:D

Aesop

Borror0
02-22-2009, 11:14 AM
Sorry, but when my level 7-9 melee is whacking on something in Gianthold and getting the "Displaced" 8 times in a row CONSTATNLY (not just on occasion) as well as everybody else doing the same, then there is something wrong. Go test it out. Check your combat log afterwards and you'll see FAR more displaced misses than hits/misses. No offense, but anybody who would defend this has never played a melee w/o true seeing or doesn't often enough.
Go in GH, kill everything but one and test. Do a large sample, like 100 hits. Post the results.

You could totally be right, but unless you tested and checked your combat log it could be very well be just a matter of perception.

Mirta
02-22-2009, 11:15 AM
Uh.

Sorry, but the Eberron Campaign Setting does not list Total Repair as a cleric spell like you claim. In fact, Total Repair isn't even part of the Artifice domain Eberron clerics can take.

I'm taking this from a google of the spell. You may be right as I don't own the book, but here's a link (http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Infusions-Artificer.pdf).

Page 116, Eberron Campaign Setting. ISBN 0-7869-3276-7

My teachers always told me not to use the web as a reference, but sometimes I've gotta do it. I actually found that when looking for the spell to see if it should be max/empowerable, as my pvp build I was making had around 500hp. Just something else to complain about.

Aesop
02-22-2009, 11:22 AM
I'm taking this from a google of the spell. You may be right as I don't own the book, but here's a link (http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Infusions-Artificer.pdf).

Page 116, Eberron Campaign Setting. ISBN 0-7869-3276-7

My teachers always told me not to use the web as a reference, but sometimes I've gotta do it. I actually found that when looking for the spell to see if it should be max/empowerable, as my pvp build I was making had around 500hp. Just something else to complain about.

I just double checked and A_D is correct. It is an Artificer 6 only spell. However other than that you are correct that it is supposed to remove status effects.

Aesop

Borror0
02-22-2009, 11:24 AM
Page 116, Eberron Campaign Setting. ISBN 0-7869-3276-7
Well, here is what my book says:

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/6024/totalrepair.png

Mirta
02-22-2009, 11:28 AM
Well, here is what my book says:

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/6024/totalrepair.png

Thanks! Now if only we had Artificers.

Angelus_dead
02-22-2009, 11:28 AM
I'm taking this from a google of the spell. You may be right as I don't own the book, but here's a link (http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Infusions-Artificer.pdf).
Nothing in that link says that Clerics get Total Repair. (And as already mentioned, Wizards and Sorcerers don't get it either)

If you want Reconstruct to work more like Heal, you can't use PnP fidelity as the justification. Instead, DDO mages should have construct-only equivalents to cleric healing spells as a matter of game balance and internal consistency.

Mirta
02-22-2009, 11:34 AM
Nothing in that link says that Clerics get Total Repair. (And as already mentioned, Wizards and Sorcerers don't get it either)

If you want Reconstruct to work more like Heal, you can't use PnP fidelity as the justification. Instead, DDO mages should have construct-only equivalents to cleric healing spells as a matter of game balance and internal consistency.

Yup. I've been proven wrong and accept that. My wandering eyes saw "blade barrier" nearby and assumed. So now the question is: If we have warforged, then why don't we have artificers?

And yes, it would be nice if reconstruct was equivalent to heal. That was my main point.

Angelus_dead
02-22-2009, 11:35 AM
Thanks! Now if only we had Artificers.
Artificers would be rather cool (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=168655), but the amount of effort required to do them justice would be excessive, and DDO has much higher priorities.

PS. New classes that could be added more easily: Hexblade, Favored Soul, Archivist, Beguiler, Warmage, Dread Necromancer. None of them are as iconic to a D&D setting, though.

Mistinarperadnacles
02-22-2009, 11:38 AM
Energy Substitution

Aw yeah.

How many times can I sign for this?

Angelus_dead
02-22-2009, 11:43 AM
So now the question is: If we have warforged, then why don't we have artificers?
Well, the reason is that D&D's artificer class is heavily entwined with the magic crafting rules, which do not exist in DDO. The class cannot be directly translated for that reason. (And even if it were taken directly, the D&D artificer's crafting is unbalanced and overpowered).

There is an obvious way to adapt Artificers to an online game, which is to focus on the Craft Homonculus (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sg/20050923a) ability and make them a pet (http://warhammeronline.wikia.com/wiki/Squig_Herder) class (http://www.wowwiki.com/Hunter_talents#Beast_Mastery). That's a typical MMORPG role, but not one that the DDO engine can well-support yet.

Borror0
02-22-2009, 11:44 AM
Energy Substitution

Aw yeah.

How many times can I sign for this?
Does not matter. It's so overpowered it will never see the day.

Three words: Wall of Sonic.

Angelus_dead
02-22-2009, 11:54 AM
Does not matter. It's so overpowered it will never see the day.

Three words: Wall of Sonic.
It might become less overpowered if they first manage to fix Wall of Fire, which itself is quite OP when involved with non-immune hp-based encounters.

But it'd still be kinda bad. They might limit Energy Substitution to 4 types, not 5, but in that case Wall of Acid/Lightning would be nearly as bad as Sonic.

What's really funny is to imagine if the different energy choices allow the same spell to be used more than once at a time. Imagine going in Shroud with 3 casters, working together to keep Wall of Lightning, Acid, and Cold on Arraetrikos: that's all the DPS you'd need (and if not, you cast Lightning Fog, Cold Fog, Lightingary Cloud, and Melf's Lightning Arrow).

Eh, if the devs want to grant players some of the results of Energy Substitution, they can just give out new arcane spells that are pre-substituted versions of normal things. If Melting Ray is an acceptable level 2 spell, they could add it explicitly (maybe even with a higher sp cost than regular L2 spells, to reflect the inherent metamagic).

frugal_gourmet
02-22-2009, 12:00 PM
Yeah... Energy substitution seems dangerous in this game, so I'd start out carefully. Say, make an alternate version of a particular spell (wall of cold or whatever), make a serious cost tied into this ability, and make it difficult to switch back and forth between both versions.

Mirta
02-22-2009, 12:10 PM
What's really funny is to imagine if the different energy choices allow the same spell to be used more than once at a time. Imagine going in Shroud with 3 casters, working together to keep Wall of Lightning, Acid, and Cold on Arraetrikos: that's all the DPS you'd need (and if not, you cast Lightning Fog, Cold Fog, Lightingary Cloud, and Melf's Lightning Arrow).

That's the whole idea. As it stands now, there's no reason to take more than one caster in the shroud. One is plenty, and even then you don't really need it. Speed runs have already been done with uber melee DPS. 16 minute shrouds prove it's already a joke with tanks, so why not with casters, too? Would three walls doing 200-400 a pop each really be that bad?

Think about how long it takes to burn some of the stuff now. My caster hit a crit firewall on a named spectre in the subterraine. It was max/empowered/extended and I'm specced for fire. The wall burned out and the spectre still had more than half HP. Now imagine that on Arraetrikos. He has half a million hit points.

Angelus_dead
02-22-2009, 12:22 PM
Would three walls doing 200-400 a pop each really be that bad?
Yes.


imagine that on Arraetrikos. He has half a million hit points.
Is that elite?

Mirta
02-22-2009, 12:31 PM
Is that elite?

Oh god. Is this going to turn into a "ZOMG NO HE DOESN'T SCREENSHOT COMBATLOGORITDIDN'THAPPENCOUNTTHEMNOBODYHASPROOF!" issue? I said half a million to get a point out there. And by no means would three walls of elements on him be overpowered. They'd barely ding him compared to what is being suggested.

Borror0
02-22-2009, 12:37 PM
And by no means would three walls of elements on him be overpowered. They'd barely ding him compared to what is being suggested.
Out of curiosity, how much DPS do you think three walls would be? By comparison, how much DPS do you think a melee character does?

Aesop
02-22-2009, 12:42 PM
Does not matter. It's so overpowered it will never see the day.

Three words: Wall of Sonic.

If I recall correctly Wall of Sonic is not viable only 4 base Elements are available(fire cold acid electric)... still hugely powerful though :)


edit:
Would be less broken if the Potency Items and Enhancements weren't as buff as they are... then again if that were the case we wouldn't need 10000 hp trash mobs


Aesop

Mirta
02-22-2009, 01:04 PM
Out of curiosity, how much DPS do you think three walls would be? By comparison, how much DPS do you think a melee character does?

I don't have to "think" how much it would be. I can simply run into the vale, hit a rat with a wall and see.

(Combat): You hit Twilight Giant Rat for 128 points of fire damage.

This particular little bugger isn't extra vulnerable to fire, so he's a good example. Take that same damage, multiply by three. 384 for three walls pounding away at Arraetrikos.

My Tempest Str ranger on the other hand dishes out an average of more than 50 + a few D6 numbers on a non crit. He uses dual Min2 khopeshes. His average crits are around 150.

Now, that tempest ranger swinging full speed is going to dish out a TON of damage. Firewall hits what? Every 2 seconds? TWF w/ tempest + haste hits how many times in 2 seconds? Running him out to beat on some poor ogre I saw 7 hits in my combat log in 2 seconds. 7 times 50 = 350 before crits. Now imagine when I hit the rogue haste boost button. Ouch.

Now, unless I forgot max or empower on my firewall, I'd have to say THREE walls of elements wouldn't be that overpowered compared to what melee classes do.

Borror0
02-22-2009, 01:47 PM
Now, that tempest ranger swinging full speed is going to dish out a TON of damage. Firewall hits what? Every 2 seconds? TWF w/ tempest + haste hits how many times in 2 seconds? Running him out to beat on some poor ogre I saw 7 hits in my combat log in 2 seconds. 7 times 50 = 350 before crits.
A 32 Str Tempest Min II khopesh using WF 15rng/1rog is dealing about 366 DPS if he has Tharne's goggles, bard songs and gets all his sneak attacks. Since we're talking about Harry, the same WF is at 293 DPS. I doubt you can get DPS any higher than that against Harry.

Three firewall is, taking your number because I am too lazy to figure out the real ones today, 128 damage per 2 seconds. That's about 198 DPS per second. Then, you add in other DoT spells like clouds. Once that is out of the way, fire away! The casters' DPS is certainly going to be higher than the melee's and it will be from range, which is not to neglect.

Now imagine when I hit the rogue haste boost button.
Haste Boost I gains you around 10 DPS through 1 minute, if not less. Thought I should mention.

Mirta
02-22-2009, 01:59 PM
A 32 Str Tempest Min II khopesh using WF 15rng/1rog is dealing about 36 DPS if he has Tharne's goggles, bard songs and gets all his sneak attacks. Since we're talking about Harry, the same WF is at 293 DPS. I doubt you can get DPS any higher than that against Harry.

Three firewall is, taking your number because I am too lazy to figure out the real ones today, 128 damage per 2 seconds. That's about 198 DPS per second. Then, you add in other DoT spells like clouds. Once that is out of the way, fire away! The casters' DPS is certainly going to be higher than the melee's and it will be from range, which is not to neglect.

Haste Boost I gains you around 10 DPS through 1 minute, if not less. Thought I should mention.

Huh? I think some of your numbers are off by... hundreds?

Borror0
02-22-2009, 02:00 PM
Huh? I think some of your numbers are off by... hundreds?
Ask Maels. He'll tell ya the same.

Aesop
02-22-2009, 02:02 PM
Ask Maels. He'll tell ya the same.

Why does he go from 36 dps to 293 because he's fighting Harry...


I think its just a clarity issue Bor... or maybe a mistype

Aesop

Aesop
02-22-2009, 02:04 PM
Oh quick question I know its out there somewhere but what is the Attacks per second of a TWF 15/1 Rng/Rog.

Aesop

Borror0
02-22-2009, 02:12 PM
Why does he go from 36 dps to 293 because he's fighting Harry...
Yup. Mistype. I meant 366 DPS, but Harry has 50% Fortification so...

Anyway, the important number is 293 DPS since we are talking about Harry here.

Oh quick question I know its out there somewhere but what is the Attacks per second of a TWF 15/1 Rng/Rog
166 swing/minute unbuffed. The way Haste and Tempest I stacks is up for debate. I assumed it was 83*1.25*1.1-

Stormanne
02-22-2009, 02:13 PM
Why does he go from 36 dps to 293 because he's fighting Harry...


I think its just a clarity issue Bor... or maybe a mistype

Aesop

I think he means 36 dmg per attack, or 293 per attack round.

Mirta
02-22-2009, 02:14 PM
A 32 Str Tempest Min II khopesh using WF 15rng/1rog is dealing about 36 DPS if he has Tharne's goggles, bard songs and gets all his sneak attacks. Since we're talking about Harry, the same WF is at 293 DPS. I doubt you can get DPS any higher than that against Harry.

Three firewall is, taking your number because I am too lazy to figure out the real ones today, 128 damage per 2 seconds. That's about 198 DPS per second. Then, you add in other DoT spells like clouds. Once that is out of the way, fire away! The casters' DPS is certainly going to be higher than the melee's and it will be from range, which is not to neglect.

Haste Boost I gains you around 10 DPS through 1 minute, if not less. Thought I should mention.

Edited.

Yes, with all those clouds and what not it might be slightly higher. That's the way it should be. Casters are very powerful beings. They shouldn't be pushed away and replaced with melees. Also, casters will still end up burning through mana then have nothing left to do. Melees have seemingly unlimited damage to dish out.

Borror0
02-22-2009, 02:20 PM
Also, casters will still end up burning through mana then have nothing left to do. Melees have seemingly unlimited damage to dish out.
It does not really matter in a fight like Harry, does it?

In a "normal quest", kitting trumps melee damage big time. Remember Module 5?

Aesop
02-22-2009, 02:31 PM
It does not really matter in a fight like Harry, does it?

In a "normal quest", kitting trumps melee damage big time. Remember Module 5?

but then the question comes up if a Melee is doing 293 DPS what should a single casters DPS be?

Wall of Lightning lets say and Lightnig Cloud (would those stack would be the first question I suppose) If Wall of Lightning does 150 per 2 sec tic and Acid Cloud Does 100 per 2 second tic... still doesn't seem too bad there... its the addition of other damage effects that would be the push. Things like Polar Ray, Light Ball etc...

so 125 per sec + insta damage effects... would that be too much? What if they toned down the Potency Enhancements and Items to reduce teh over all burst damage a little.

Aesop

Aranticus
02-22-2009, 09:23 PM
with prot from fire, resist fire and fire shield, the casters can stand in relative safety in part 4 and still manage to dps harry. in part 5, you reduce the need to just 3 melees to box harry in so the clerics can actually go hero method. you have almost 0 chance of failure. oh, the casters can dps with lightning ray, acid ray, cold ray and bypass harry's evasion

imo, too overpowered