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View Full Version : Easy way to fix W/P without acctaully nerfing it.



Joemama
02-19-2009, 07:19 AM
One word, Undead. Just add more undead in the 9-13 lvl quests and maybe some in the 14th lvl ranges. Undead are immune to wounders and all other types of stat damagers, and they take 1/2 dmage from peircing weapons.

cm2_supernova
02-19-2009, 07:46 AM
Ummmh...you mean like Mod 5?

IIRC that was a monster sucess too...

:D

Deadz
02-19-2009, 07:55 AM
One word, Undead. Just add more undead in the 9-13 lvl quests and maybe some in the 14th lvl ranges. Undead are immune to wounders and all other types of stat damagers, and they take 1/2 dmage from peircing weapons.

*SLAP!!!!**

That was on behalf of all the rogues out there.

Thrudh
02-19-2009, 07:56 AM
Uggh... hell no...

delete every w/p weapon in the game before we do another all undead Mod...

uhgungawa
02-19-2009, 08:16 AM
Litany was the biggest flop ever. lets not repeat that one :mad:

Kintro
02-19-2009, 08:21 AM
How about just decreasing hitpoints a bit while increasing con? It's ridiculous that, in some high end quests, my barb is better off with a wounder than with greensteel bursting/blasting weapons and stunning blow.

krud
02-19-2009, 08:27 AM
I'd say give mobs more fortification, and give rogues enhancements to reduce/bypass fortification. Maybe also have things like fighter critical accuracy also reduce/bypass fortification so fighters also don't lose out.

Deadz
02-19-2009, 08:39 AM
I'd say give mobs more fortification, and give rogues enhancements to reduce/bypass fortification. Maybe also have things like fighter critical accuracy also reduce/bypass fortification so fighters also don't lose out.

offtopic: your character names make me giggle every time krud, thanks!

~Glouscester
02-19-2009, 08:46 AM
How about just altering the mob AI so that the clerics cast single/mass deathward on their friends like our clerics do. Problem solved.

If I was guarding a dungeon and heard a bunch of heros around the corner wand whipping themselves/talking/tumbling/slaughtering...I would start buffing my friends up.

juniorpfactors
02-19-2009, 08:48 AM
One word, Undead. Just add more undead in the 9-13 lvl quests and maybe some in the 14th lvl ranges. Undead are immune to wounders and all other types of stat damagers, and they take 1/2 dmage from peircing weapons.

this may be the worst idea out there,,,, o wait no it isnt.... sorry I didnt notice you meant it in sarcasm:rolleyes:


jro

JoeyJoJoJr
02-19-2009, 08:50 AM
How about just altering the mob AI so that the clerics cast single/mass deathward on their friends like our clerics do. Problem solved.

If I was guarding a dungeon and heard a bunch of heros around the corner wand whipping themselves/talking/tumbling/slaughtering...I would start buffing my friends up.

heck... even more cleric or healing type mobs.
a mob who can cast a mass heal would be annoying.

Alavatar
02-19-2009, 09:57 AM
I'd say give mobs more fortification, and give rogues enhancements to reduce/bypass fortification. Maybe also have things like fighter critical accuracy also reduce/bypass fortification so fighters also don't lose out.

Except, don't on-crit effects go off irregardless of the crit damage? Just like Shocking Burst does a "burst" effect on undead on a critical hit, but you don't get the damage multiplier?

uhgungawa
02-19-2009, 10:05 AM
I'd say give mobs more fortification, and give rogues enhancements to reduce/bypass fortification. Maybe also have things like fighter critical accuracy also reduce/bypass fortification so fighters also don't lose out.

So you want to take the cheeze out for most of the classes but not all of them? :confused:

Thanks, I needed the laugh :p

sirgog
02-19-2009, 11:47 AM
Litany was the biggest flop ever. lets not repeat that one :mad:

I like pretty much all of Mod 5 except the 'raid', and would say Mod 8 was a much, much bigger flop. (SoS reflagging anyone???)

WeaselKing
02-19-2009, 12:04 PM
How about higher mob AC combined with higher con (same hp)?

krud
02-19-2009, 12:08 PM
So you want to take the cheeze out for most of the classes but not all of them? :confused:

Thanks, I needed the laugh :p
We run around with a ton of fortification and buffed up to the hilt, why not the mobs? However, too much fort and you nerf the heck out of rogues, and to a lesser extent barbarians. There would have to be some way of reducing fortification, these were just a couple of ideas and not meant to be the only way. Use your imagination and come up with something else. How about something like sunder for fortification, a shattermantle effect for fortification?

I always felt that in some quests the mobs should come prebuffed, just as we are. In some cases you could have us stealthily remove guards to prevent others from coming out all prebuffed.

uhgungawa
02-19-2009, 01:35 PM
I'd say give mobs more fortification, and give rogues enhancements to reduce/bypass fortification. Maybe also have things like fighter critical accuracy also reduce/bypass fortification so fighters also don't lose out.



We run around with a ton of fortification and buffed up to the hilt, why not the mobs? However, too much fort and you nerf the heck out of rogues, and to a lesser extent barbarians. There would have to be some way of reducing fortification, these were just a couple of ideas and not meant to be the only way. Use your imagination and come up with something else. How about something like sunder for fortification, a shattermantle effect for fortification?

I always felt that in some quests the mobs should come prebuffed, just as we are. In some cases you could have us stealthily remove guards to prevent others from coming out all prebuffed.

So first it's rogues and fighters, then it's rogues and barbs? Me so confused :confused:

If you want to gives some of the mobs some advantages, then so do it. But don't go "Do it, but not to so and so"

I really don't care what they do to WoPs, as long as they do it evenly for everyone

uhgungawa
02-19-2009, 01:42 PM
I would say a mix of some of the ideas is the best solution.

Buffed mobs

Healers that heal them

Higher con with less HP per con

Heavy to mod fort on mobs

Mix and match them so that a variety of methods are used. Not just W/P FTW . WoPs here, DPS there, block and let casters do the dirty work over there, ect.

WeaselKing
02-19-2009, 01:54 PM
How about making deathward common on mobs. However a clever caster would dispel it for his WoP wielding buddies.

mediocresurgeon
02-19-2009, 02:03 PM
Note: Deathward does not stop wounding/puncturing and other stat damage. (You only have to fight the first red named skeleton in Litany of the Dead to figure that one out--he wields a weakening vorpal puncturing weapon. Yes, I said (-1 str/nat 20 kills/1d6 con on crit. Deathward only stops the Vorpal effect.)

Some monsters already have fortification. Example: Harry. Furthermore, this fortification increases with difficulty (For Harry, it's 25%/50%/75%). This is the way it should be implimented--the real badass monsters get heavy fort, most trash does not.

Some monsters cast Heal on themselves and others. Heal removes ability score damage. Examples: Kobold Shamans in Enter the Kobold. However, because Heal (like any spell) has a cooldown, it is still possible to kill these shamans with wounding/puncturing before they can Heal again (and, yes, it is quicker than DPSing in most cases).

More undead will bring more grieving from the player base. This is because players do not like to level up their casters/bards/rogues only to find that the highest-level content is immune to all of their cool stuff. Examples: Mod 8 giants.

If an item is unbalanced (and I'm not saying w/p is unbalanced or not) the game should NEVER fix the problem with changing what kind of monsters it has. It should solve the problem at its source--the unbalanced item. If wounding/puncturing kills quicker than DPS, increase the constitution of the monsters and decrease the hit points of the monsters so that the kill times for a mob are similar. Don't release a mod where the top 1% of player base scares the everyone so much they are willing to screw the other 99% of players along with them.

krud
02-19-2009, 03:10 PM
So first it's rogues and fighters, then it's rogues and barbs? Me so confused :confused:

If you want to gives some of the mobs some advantages, then so do it. But don't go "Do it, but not to so and so"

I really don't care what they do to WoPs, as long as they do it evenly for everyone
Quit hanging on every single word as if it's set in stone and you might not be so confused. Look at the overall idea: Give the mobs some more fortification, and give us some options to reduce it. Simply swinging a wop may not cut it, you may have to do some other things or rearrange some enhancements to reduce fortification enough to make it worthwhile. It might be in some cases or builds that it's just not worth the hassle and you'd prefer straight dps instead. Or maybe it would give intimitanks something else to do mobs instead of just intimidate-turtle.

This is the "suggestions" forum. Those were a few that were thrown out. There could be multiple ways to reduce mob fortification; enhancements, weapons, feats or abilities. Obviously, rogues get hit doubly hard with mob fort. Both sneak attacks and crits are reduced, as well as stat damage. Maybe they need an enhancement option to help. Anyone wtih crit focused enhancements get nerfed somewhat by mob fort as well (barbarians, and some fighter, pally enhancements). Perhaps they'd need to pick up a weapon that reduces fort in their offhand, or use an ability like sunder to reduce fort. Again, these are just suggestions. You don't like them, modify them, add to them, come up with something else, rather than "B-b-but you said only such and such needs help. Why must they get help and not others?". Take the idea and run with it... or not.

tiertrigin
03-10-2009, 08:44 AM
How about just altering the mob AI so that the clerics cast single/mass deathward on their friends like our clerics do. Problem solved.

If I was guarding a dungeon and heard a bunch of heros around the corner wand whipping themselves/talking/tumbling/slaughtering...I would start buffing my friends up.

heck yeah, i mean some mobs are bound to have more than a int lvl of a snail lol

Pyromaniac
03-10-2009, 09:06 AM
Tired of undead - but cubes, miles and miles of gelatinous cubes :)

redoubt
03-10-2009, 09:54 AM
How about making deathward common on mobs. However a clever caster would dispel it for his WoP wielding buddies.

Hydrolics already pointed out that deathward does not stop con damage.

Second issue with this is that we have great difficulty dispelling the casters in this game. When you look at the mechanics of the dispels and break enchantment you can see that it is designed to work well against same level casters -- we never fight same level casters, they are much higher. The end result is that a lot of the stuff the cast cannot be dispelled.

ManinBlaq
03-10-2009, 07:08 PM
As if mobs didn't already have an inflated Fortitude.

My fundamental issue with globally increasing mob constitution - is that tactical effects: sunders, stunning blow, trip, sap .. etc All suddenly become that much more difficult -- and the worthwhileness of such feats, become greatly diminished.

Gryphton
03-10-2009, 07:23 PM
I think that it would be too hard to code an increase in mob hit points without also increasing their fort save.

I have a number of W/P weapons and I have a number of dual shard G/S weapons. I feel that it is ******** to nerf W/P, but at the same time would like my insane DPS weapons to not feel like they are nothing more than masterwork by comparison.

I do not feel that increasing fortification is the solution here either. That is just a good way to say good bye to rogue builds and to nerf kensia III before it even exists....