View Full Version : Query concerning mob hate

02-18-2009, 04:52 PM
1) Does Subtle Backstab affect ranged attacks (text says no, real effect?)
2) If not, would it be a good thing if it did?

On a related note:
3) Is there any real way to measure how much hate an attack generates?
4) Would the inclusion of a "sparring dummy" be a good thing?
5) What would you want on the "sparring dummy" as far as a read out? Amount of dps? aggro/hate level? amount of damage applied to the aggro meter? max hit? min hit? something else?

I'll check back later to see what others think :cool:

02-18-2009, 05:02 PM
3) Is there any real way to measure how much hate an attack generates?
1. Get a cleric in your party with the Harm spell, which does the same damage each time.
2. Take him into Ataraxia's Haven and find a Scrag.
3. Aggro the scrag, then have the cleric Harm it off you.
4. Shoot it with bolts until you pull aggro. Add up the damage it took (should approx equal the Harm)
5. Harm again.
6. Turn on Subtle Backstabber and shoot bolts again.
7. Compare the two bolt results and see if they are different by the expected percent.
8. Repeat all that, but with melee weapons instead of ranged.

02-18-2009, 06:20 PM
Other MMOs, notably EQ and I believe WoW, have such Sparring Dummies. Those games also allow parsing where, to my knowledge, DDO does not because they handle chat differently. The Dummies were implemented with that ability in mind, and can yield the following:

Min hit
Max hit
Average hit
Total damage dealt over a timed window
Crit percentage, and min/max/average/total crit damage separate from normal damage
Swing speed and/or haste percentage
Hit ratio (less useful in DDO since you can determine a mobs ac easily)
Effect percentage (aka Procs, proc rate, like the lightning dd off a shroud weapon)
Relative burst damage curves (like on a paladin hitting smite, the difference when he has smites to chain spend and not graphed on a bell curve, useful for comparing dps in timed situations)
Relative damage to the group/raid, including all of the above, and represented as raw numbers or graphically, both as totals and over time.

From the above, 'Hate/agro' can be retroactively determined using some math as long as you know what variables are at work (subtle backstabbing, Leviks set, Brute Fighting, etc). This assumes all classes generate hate equally, which is not true in all games though I believe in DDO it is once a mob is engaged, but that can also be tested and accounted for if necessary.

You can also start looking at swing cycles and when it is most optimal to hit a smite or an action boost or what have you, either to lose the least animation time, or to see when it will land on the highest attack mod, or time the refresh to match a completed animation, or what have you. This gets difficult though because it relies on the accuracy of the connection between the client and server, which as we all know is notoriously shakey for DDO.

For this reason I would like to see a Dummy such as this spawned on the clients end and handled locally. Perhaps in an individual instance. Since all it does is feed numbers to the user, and cannot be used for xp gain, loot gain, or (if in a solo instance) to affect anyone else, I see little room for abuse only increased accuracy.

Just some thoughts from someone whos seen it before. A Test Dummy locally used that creates a text document combat log for the user which can be run into a parser would do all of this. It might only be useful in a vacuum rather than in the raid specifically, but for DDO I believe that is more than sufficient. It is not as reliant on that sort of information as other more in depth games. Simply having individual benchmark values for your character to use and work with should happily meet most goals.