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Jaddo
02-05-2009, 12:45 PM
I am a big PNP player, and also a big ddo fan, but one thing i learned is that shuriken are useless without being able to throw multiple (i think up to 3) shuriken at once, and that they all count for sneak attack if you manage to get it, could you add this in the game? also to throw multiple shuiken at once, you need to have the "Rapid shot" feat, if not, you only throw one.


and a side note, i think bluff should be a passive ability to rogues, because it's useless for a rogue to "Cast" bluff on a creature, then attack it for a sneak attack......

joeuhuh
02-06-2009, 06:19 PM
mult shuriken sounds cool but id be happy being able to duel weild thrown weapons since makin only shuriken king would suck since ive never found one with a decent spell on it -- plus i think you would have to have more slots to equip diferent shuriken u cant throw the same one three times simultaneously perhaps jsut a rate of fire boost to shuriken to offset the many stars of death u get withthe wepon in pnp

i think for rogues or other toons perhaps make bluff have a passive +1 percent less threat rating per 2 ranks or something or maybe every 2 ranks above 10 or 20-- would be interesting to have intimidate do something similar passivly adding to threat and would help the few but proud ranged toons reduce some threat if chosen

i would have it less threat when u do dama ge which would stack with things like subtle back stab and the rogue goggle bracer set but would also helo mages if they take the reduced threat enhancements or got the cloak from the abbot

to not overpower this have at 20 and every 4 ranks over 20 add 1 percent less threat and every 2 ranks over 40 add 1 percent less to keep from overpowering the ability and to give inducement to max the skill with items and such if u can get it realy high

so if u could get your bluff to 40 you would have 6 percent less threat rank 50 11 percent and rank 60 16 percent nice but not omfg

Jaddo
02-07-2009, 10:10 PM
well, the only point to shuriken, is to mass sneak attack your opponent, basically, since shuriken only do 1d2 damage, the idea is to throw up to three, without the sneak attack, its just 2.2.2., but with the sneak attacks, 2,8.2,8.2,8, a difference of 16 damage.

im just saying, you got shuriken, you got Rapid shot, so you might as well put it in, its part of the rules. just my suggestion......

branmakmuffin
02-07-2009, 10:15 PM
well, the only point to shuriken, is to mass sneak attack your opponent, basically, since shuriken only do 1d2 damage, the idea is to throw up to three, without the sneak attack, its just 2.2.2., but with the sneak attacks, 2,8.2,8.2,8, a difference of 16 damage.

im just saying, you got shuriken, you got Rapid shot, so you might as well put it in, its part of the rules. just my suggestion......
As it stands now, shuriken are just silly.

Jaddo
02-07-2009, 11:41 PM
22 damage with throwing weapons? not including str mod, i dont think thats silly, but w/e

branmakmuffin
02-07-2009, 11:52 PM
22 damage with throwing weapons? not including str mod, i dont think thats silly, but w/e
22? "As it stands now" your characters do 22 points of damage with shurikens? What, do Monks get their unarmed attack damage with shuriken in DDO?

Noctus
02-08-2009, 01:01 AM
I am a big PNP player, and also a big ddo fan, but one thing i learned is that shuriken are useless without being able to throw multiple (i think up to 3) shuriken at once, and that they all count for sneak attack if you manage to get it, could you add this in the game? ...


In Pen&Paper if you want to throw several shuriken with one attack you produce a volley attack. Precision based damage (like sneak attack damage) is only applied once to a volley attack.


So even in Pen&Paper it´s not possible what you want to have included in DDO.

query
02-08-2009, 01:12 AM
Go monk, get the 10,000 stars ability and play the rules like the rest of us who follow the 3.5 both on paper and here. As for 3 in one attack...that is feasable with the monk ability released and hopefully should be updated.

Jaddo
02-08-2009, 01:32 AM
ok.... well, i see it all the time, that you get the Rapid shot feat, and you can use it to sneak attack, i've never seen it questioned, so this is the first ive heard it being illegal.....


whats the 10,000 stars ability?

and what monk ability that was released and shoud be updated? is that in DDO?

Noctus
02-08-2009, 02:38 AM
D20 SRD:

Regardless of the number of arrows you fire, you apply precision-based damage only once. If you score a critical hit, only the first arrow fired deals critical damage; all others deal regular damage.

The above example is taken from Manyshot, but the volley attack is not restricted to Manyshot.

A volley attack happens when you make one attack, which has several sub-parts which are rolled seperatly.
In the core rules this applies to Manyshot, Scorching Ray or the Multi-Shuriken-Throw.

A feat was later added in the Expanded Psyonics Handbook which allowed you to add precisicion-based damage to your volley attacks, cant recall the name atm.



edit:

P.S.
Here´s the official article from WotC:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040309a

and here where some guys explain it nicely:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-3rd-edition-rules/211371-sneak-attack-scorching-ray.html

Jaddo
02-08-2009, 11:29 AM
according to the page below, its perfectly legal, as long as you use rapid shot and not making it a volley attack, though now i know that you have to select your targetts before you roll for attacks, and yes, all attacks count as a sneak attack, since its not a volley,

http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-3rd-edition-rules/1044-rogue-sneak-attack-shuriken.html

below is a confirmation that all attacks that are in a single attack motion, that isnt a volley(which rapid shot isnt), is considered an extra sneak attack.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040302a



though i dont know about 4th edition rules, can someone answer the second half of my last question? thx

Noctus
02-08-2009, 02:15 PM
double post.

Noctus
02-08-2009, 02:19 PM
You are absolutly right that if you use Rapid Shot then each thrown shuriken will get sneak attack damage.

Because if you use Rapid Shot you use the "Full Attack" Action. A full attack action takes more time and so you cant move forexample, only make a 5-ft-stepif you do a full attack.

The Multi-Shurigen-throw is used in a "Attack Action". It takes less timethat a "full attack action". If you use an "attack action" you can make one attack and move up to your base land speed for example.


A full attack action produces several seperate attacks in one action, but is slightly longer.
While the volley attack produces several attack rolls under one attack, but leaves you enough time to do some other smaller action in your turn. (move around, draw a potion, switch weapons)


There ia a trade off:
If you dont move and take a bit of time to expend a "full attack action" you do sneak attack damage on each thrown shuriken.
Or you can use a "move action" and an "attack action" in your round. You can still throw multipleshuriekns due to their special rules, but precisicion damage is only added once.


In my above post i was talking about the restrictions that apply if youonly take a "attack action" to throw multiple shurikens in a roud.
If you take a "full attack action" in your round to throw several shurikens you do get sneak attack on each, of course.