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View Full Version : Disjunction, Devs, just dont do it.



Tin_Dragon
12-16-2008, 11:25 PM
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magesDisjunction.htm


Disjunction in DDO will be single target and temporary.

And even with those drawbacks, it's still a mean, mean spell.



So, the obvious thing I must ask, is WHY develope a spell in a 9th level slot, that is doing what Dispel, grtr Dispel, or Anti Magic SHOULD already be doing?

If its NOT permanent, and its ONLY single target, then why not just Make Dispel Magic do this?

Thats all your doing anyway, giving up dispel magic, but in a 9th level spell slot.

Dispel Magic
Abjuration
Level: Brd 3, Clr 3, Drd 4, Magic 3, Pal 3, Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target or Area: One spellcaster, creature, or object; or 20-ft.-radius burst
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

You can use dispel magic to end ongoing spells that have been cast on a creature or object, to temporarily suppress the magical abilities of a magic item, to end ongoing spells (or at least their effects) within an area, or to counter another spellcaster’s spell. A dispelled spell ends as if its duration had expired. Some spells, as detailed in their descriptions, can’t be defeated by dispel magic. Dispel magic can dispel (but not counter) spell-like effects just as it does spells.


Make this work, dont just do it in a 9th slot and call it Disjuntion, cause it aint even close.

dameron
12-17-2008, 01:17 AM
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magesDisjunction.htm





So, the obvious thing I must ask, is WHY develope a spell in a 9th level slot, that is doing what Dispel, grtr Dispel, or Anti Magic SHOULD already be doing?

If its NOT permanent, and its ONLY single target, then why not just Make Dispel Magic do this?

Thats all your doing anyway, giving up dispel magic, but in a 9th level spell slot.

Dispel Magic
Abjuration
Level: Brd 3, Clr 3, Drd 4, Magic 3, Pal 3, Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target or Area: One spellcaster, creature, or object; or 20-ft.-radius burst
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

You can use dispel magic to end ongoing spells that have been cast on a creature or object, to temporarily suppress the magical abilities of a magic item, to end ongoing spells (or at least their effects) within an area, or to counter another spellcaster’s spell. A dispelled spell ends as if its duration had expired. Some spells, as detailed in their descriptions, can’t be defeated by dispel magic. Dispel magic can dispel (but not counter) spell-like effects just as it does spells.


Make this work, dont just do it in a 9th slot and call it Disjuntion, cause it aint even close.

That use of dispel magic will only suppress one magic item for 1d4 rounds if it succeeds in a caster level check vs. the item's caster level.

Disjunction is much more powerful.

GunboatDiplomat
12-17-2008, 04:16 AM
You're missing the point of Mordenkains Disjunction in DDO.

Like spells such as Burning blood, its not meant to be a spell players use, its a spell for mobs to use against us.

And it is going to be hilarious to see how that works out.

Tin_Dragon
12-17-2008, 08:58 AM
You're missing the point of Mordenkains Disjunction in DDO.

Like spells such as Burning blood, its not meant to be a spell players use, its a spell for mobs to use against us.

And it is going to be hilarious to see how that works out.

So, again, Turbine missed the point, and corrupted a good thing.

YEah, I can see it , unlimited mob SP, spamming this spell, all our gear is nerfed, yet, we use it vs a mob, and nothing happens, they still have thousands of hps, inflated stats, will hit and crit like a meteor and we will cry about the unfairness of it all.

Dungeons and Dragons 3rd edition is about an EVEN playing field between players and 'monsters'. DDO has taken that away from us.

Yet another example of the worst DMing ever.

VirieSquichie
12-17-2008, 10:59 AM
There's another benefit it has over Dispel Magic (etc.) ...without using metamagic, it's already higher level and thus higher DC vs. the target's spells.

Tin_Dragon
12-17-2008, 07:26 PM
There's another benefit it has over Dispel Magic (etc.) ...without using metamagic, it's already higher level and thus higher DC vs. the target's spells.

So you think being FORCED to use a 9th level slot to get a 3rd level effect is ok?

I mean we could have been doing this with 5th level wizards long ago.

Korvek
12-17-2008, 07:30 PM
So you think being FORCED to use a 9th level slot to get a 3rd level effect is ok?

I mean we could have been doing this with 5th level wizards long ago.

It will act as a debuff that as far as I can tell has no caster level check. The same can't be said for Dispel Magic.

SteeleTrueheart
12-17-2008, 07:35 PM
Please wait until the official description is out before bashing this spell. For all we know this might do everything that dispel magic does now and then some (like temp disabling weapon/armor/equipment effects)

Will you still be complaining if this spell strips enemies of thier immunities for a short amount of time? (Bosses excepted of course)

Until we have an actual DDO description, quit complaining.

CrimsonEagle
12-17-2008, 07:59 PM
I kinda like the thought of this spell. Will seperate the men from the boys.


Sure we have all the best loot in the game and our characters are uber. Just how good are ya without all that?

I think it will be fun.

Now if it was permanent....I could see people having a heart attack....litteraly....I think half the people would drop right there.....

Crimson

ahpook
12-18-2008, 08:38 AM
So, again, Turbine missed the point, and corrupted a good thing.

YEah, I can see it , unlimited mob SP, spamming this spell, all our gear is nerfed, yet, we use it vs a mob, and nothing happens, they still have thousands of hps, inflated stats, will hit and crit like a meteor and we will cry about the unfairness of it all.

Dungeons and Dragons 3rd edition is about an EVEN playing field between players and 'monsters'. DDO has taken that away from us.

Yet another example of the worst DMing ever.

LOL, you haven't even seen what the spell does yet. What a ridiculous comment.

Turial
12-18-2008, 08:43 AM
Please wait until the official description is out before bashing this spell. For all we know this might do everything that dispel magic does now and then some (like temp disabling weapon/armor/equipment effects)

Will you still be complaining if this spell strips enemies of thier immunities for a short amount of time? (Bosses excepted of course)

Until we have an actual DDO description, quit complaining.

Eladrin postulated at one point that the spell might be useful for stripping the shield from the abbot. If that is still true once it is live, who knows, Eladrin is also the one who said he was using the anti-heal buff on red names and thats not how it works today.

Aerendil
12-18-2008, 08:54 AM
The way I'd *like* to see it work would be as follows:

- fix Dispel Magic to work properly, and can be used against any non-red. I'd also like to see it work as a "removes beneficial spells only" spell. It's pure silliness to fascinate, or debuff an enemy, and then cast Dispel Magic and have our debuffs removed...

- for red names, Dispel Magic (and Greater Dispel Magic) will be somewhat iffy, and Disjunction will become the weapon of choice. Perhaps have it auto-breach SR or something, with no save.


'Course, I'd also like to see spells such as Silence, 20' radius added. But that's just me.

Elaril
12-18-2008, 01:10 PM
You're missing the point of Mordenkains Disjunction in DDO.

Like spells such as Burning blood, its not meant to be a spell players use, its a spell for mobs to use against us.

And it is going to be hilarious to see how that works out.

I predict pain in a vein similar ot the limb chopper effect when sever was first introduced.

MeNorel
12-18-2008, 01:37 PM
It doesn't really matter because the ones that we will want to use it on the most, orange, purple and red bosses will most likely have blanket immunity to it.:eek:

ViolentEnd
12-18-2008, 01:46 PM
One of the big differences between dispel, greater dispel, and disjunction (in pnp) is the maximum caster level. Dispel caps at level 10 I think, greater at 15 (If I remember correctly). Therefore, casting dispel as a level 20 mage would be equivalent to a level 10 mage casting it. Also, with dispel, you can only target one item, or active spells. When you taget active spells, it should strip them until a caster check fails (you make individual checks for each enchantment). Disjunction is made to strip all magic from a target.

Tin_Dragon
12-18-2008, 01:53 PM
It doesn't really matter because the ones that we will want to use it on the most, orange, purple and red bosses will most likely have blanket immunity to it.:eek:

Agreed, yet, every mob with casting ability will use it vs Players constantly, like hobgoblins with Sleet storm, arcane skellies that have FW, they have unlimited SPs, and will throw it out like crazy, for us, it could be like permanently questing in an anti magic field, while not haveing any use for us VS the bosses.

MeNorel
12-18-2008, 02:02 PM
Oh don't get me wrong I think it could be one of the biggest potential blunders on Turbine's to do list. Unless the have plans to bring things more back into line with mobs/boss's inflated stats.

CrimsonEagle
12-18-2008, 02:40 PM
Agreed, yet, every mob with casting ability will use it vs Players constantly, like hobgoblins with Sleet storm, arcane skellies that have FW, they have unlimited SPs, and will throw it out like crazy, for us, it could be like permanently questing in an anti magic field, while not haveing any use for us VS the bosses.


Though this is a bit off topic, a thought just crossed my mind.

Yes, mob casters have unlimited sp's, but if you think about it, they are at, or around our levels, so they should be able to cast about the same number of equal level spells as our casters would be able to.

So, lets say we are facing what equals a lvl 16 cleric with (just a number), 1500 spellpoints. Now, we have come upon them after going through half a dungeon, resources spent, yet they will be at full strength.

That means that for each cleric there, there will be 1500 points worth of comet fall, command, in some cases blade barrier etc, etc.

Now yes, if we were to stand there for 20 mins, they would still be casting, but really now, how long do we allow them to live?

I'm pretty sure that one of our clerics could do the same thing to them. Cast comet fall after comet fall after comet fall after comet fall.

Course the rest of the party would have a fit because we have further to go in the run.

For these mobs.....this is it. In a way its all or nothing. They have no place else to go.

This really is the way it should be if you think about it.

I mean really, do we have a hard time with most of these quests?

Crimson

MeNorel
12-18-2008, 03:00 PM
Not currently but wait until you have no magical ability including those nice shiney GS objects that are completely useless other than being possibly masterwork items when you face that Cleric mob that as the 1500/unlimited spell point and most resources are spent.

CrimsonEagle
12-18-2008, 03:04 PM
Not currently but wait until you have no magical ability including those nice shiney GS objects that are completely useless other than being possibly masterwork items when you face that Cleric mob that as the 1500/unlimited spell point and most resources are spent.

Yeah, like I said. Will be fun:) Seperate the men from the boys.

Really though. I think we will manage.